GREAT ARTICLE: Dunleavy Talks Original RAC Plans
- Thread starter RutgersYay
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A very good read and pretty accurate.
What would be interesting to follow up in an article (and a great cautionary tale for AD Julie Herman) is how the designs were changed into the 8,700 seat arena we got due to a lot of issues....the same issues that caused the 1994 stadium expansion to be scaled back on the fly and the 2009 stadium expansion was chopped down to budget issues...
What would be interesting to follow up in an article (and a great cautionary tale for AD Julie Herman) is how the designs were changed into the 8,700 seat arena we got due to a lot of issues....the same issues that caused the 1994 stadium expansion to be scaled back on the fly and the 2009 stadium expansion was chopped down to budget issues...
un-f-ing-believeable about a downtown NB arena, which would have been the best solution...
another example of how most of our problems are self-inflicted, esp to do things on the cheap...
another example of how most of our problems are self-inflicted, esp to do things on the cheap...
We have to remember what downtown NB was like in the mid 70's. It was pretty downtrodden. I remember cops walking the beat on George St, patrolling in pairs. Certainly downtown has been rebuilt nicely since then an a new arena there now would probably be the envy of most colleges.
That's why I've been saying all along that if Rutgers is going to commit to doing it then do it right. The RAC is so antiquated that spending 20-40 million to upgrade it will still leave it lagging behind most arenas that have been built in the last 5-10 years.
Renovate the RAC and its guaranteed that within 10 years we'll be needing another upgrade or a new arena but then the same complainers will be saying the money we spent today would be a waste, just like they're doing with the football upgrades.
Rutgers athletics infrastructure should be the poster child for what happens when the so called fiscally conservative repeatedly get their way. Not only can we pay for it, we should pay for it because in the long run, it is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
Renovate the RAC and its guaranteed that within 10 years we'll be needing another upgrade or a new arena but then the same complainers will be saying the money we spent today would be a waste, just like they're doing with the football upgrades.
Rutgers athletics infrastructure should be the poster child for what happens when the so called fiscally conservative repeatedly get their way. Not only can we pay for it, we should pay for it because in the long run, it is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
I was never enthusiastic about RU basketball being housed in a downtown arena designed for hockey. Had that happened, I doubt we would ever have had the kind of home court advantage we had with the RAC, which is more like a mini-IU Assembly Hall than it is a mini-MSG, thereby making it more intimidating as a bball home court.
The article was interesting for its history of how events transpired in the early 1970s when RU was making its move, rather hesitantly, into "bigger time" athletics. Bloustein was a great ideas man but I have heard him being criticized for not providing the funds to turn his visions into reality, whether for sports or other initiatives at the university. People forget that in the 1970s, RU was still intent on implementing the concept of the "federated-college system" enshrined in the Warren Susman Report of the late 1960s. That was the plan for how RU would grow into a full-fledged state university, which it had never been. The plan called for 3 Livingston-type campuses in Piscataway but the other two were never built. But within that plan, it makes a lot of sense to put the RAC out at Livingston in the interest of uniting the New Brunswick campuses more effectively than they had been.
The article was interesting for its history of how events transpired in the early 1970s when RU was making its move, rather hesitantly, into "bigger time" athletics. Bloustein was a great ideas man but I have heard him being criticized for not providing the funds to turn his visions into reality, whether for sports or other initiatives at the university. People forget that in the 1970s, RU was still intent on implementing the concept of the "federated-college system" enshrined in the Warren Susman Report of the late 1960s. That was the plan for how RU would grow into a full-fledged state university, which it had never been. The plan called for 3 Livingston-type campuses in Piscataway but the other two were never built. But within that plan, it makes a lot of sense to put the RAC out at Livingston in the interest of uniting the New Brunswick campuses more effectively than they had been.
Having the RAC in the city makes going to the game an exciting atmosphere type of event. You can walk around town, hit up the bars/restaurants before/after games. See loads of fans in red walking around town. It's just a cool atmosphere that would sell really well to both fans, students, and recruits.
Being on campus is great also, but its truly isolated in where it's placed. It's like comparing going to a game at the Meadowlands vs a game at Prudential , NYC, Brooklyn
It would be good if the was enough parking and road access. I just don't see local fans taking a train.
I think if they do the upgrades to the rac now like we have been hearing about were going to happen then if it helps the ability to recruit and puts us more on a level playing field as the other big 10 schools then the investment would be well worth it. You have to remember that in 10 or so years the big 10 money will be flowing in so if we need to do anything at that time it wont be as big of a deal financially, also if Rutgers starts putting a solid product on the court then that will also cause the donors to open up there piggy banks because people get very excited and are more likely to put money behind a product that they are excited about. With all that being said I am really excited about this incoming class and I think Eddie has done a great job of recruiting and just imagine what he could do with upgraded facilities.
Generic multi purpose hockey arena is my worst Knightmare. Don't understand the RAC bashing at all. Great sight lines, close to the court and loud. Everything a basketball purist needs.
I love the RAC as well as I have been a season ticket holder for years and the RAC is home and I myself am not bashing the RAC I just think it needs a few modernizing upgrades if for no other reason than the purpose of recruiting along with a practice facility and more of an overall commitment to a winning basketball program. A B1G thing to remember is who we are competing against now being in the B!G and what those programs get to showcase to recruits.
Modernize the RAC...improve/create the practice facility
That's really all we NEED.
I've never been one who believes it's been what's holding us back. It's a convenient excuse but the reality is that it's been a bunch of things and IMO, the RAC isn't near the top of the list
I've never met an opposing fan who didn't think the place was awesome
That's really all we NEED.
I've never been one who believes it's been what's holding us back. It's a convenient excuse but the reality is that it's been a bunch of things and IMO, the RAC isn't near the top of the list
I've never met an opposing fan who didn't think the place was awesome
More bang for your buck.
I previously posted what some other schools have done over the last 10 years with new arenas built in "downtown" areas, many times with more public $$$ (vs if arena was built on-campus).
A lot more events could come if a right-size and right-amenity arena were built downtown vs if the RAC is renovated.
Since RU doesn't have enough $$$ to build a new arena that could last 50 plus years...other options should be looked at closely...and what advantages it could bring to the town/county.
Doesn't that have to balance out with the fact that it's probably twice as expensive to tear down and build in the city vs. just using whatever open space you have on campus? Then you don't have to worry about parking and whatnot (could the school still make money off of that, would you have to constantly have buses running new routes to accommodate, etc.)?
Again, I'm not anti-city arena. I'm just saying if we're going to get a new arena, we should do it right, and I'm not sure whether stuffing it in a small pocket in NB would be the most cost-efficient, even with DevCo and grants and whatnot.
Another similar question. How expensive is the RAC to maintain and use for various events? For example, let's say we decided to build a stadium somewhere. Would we keep the RAC for gymnastics and wrestling and whatnot, as a 2nd arena for smaller events? Or would Rutgers tear it down for whatever reason?
A downtown arena would make arriving before and leaving after a game a nightmare. Imagine what a thousand cars arriving in NB for a 7pm game and entering a parking deck would be like. Leaving the Blue Lot after a football game would be like being on a Expressway at 2am compared to getting your car out of a parking deck.
Don't compare NB to MSG, Barclay or PruCenter. All have extensive mass transit options available. Buses & Subways move a lot of people in and out of the area.
and add in a great restaurant-bar on site and I am good with it (although the downtown facility would have been awesome had it happened. People from the city taking a direct train to the games)
Too bad the article did not continue with a discussion of all the compromises that were made in the final version of the RAC because the University would not put the effort or commitment into raising a few million more dollars. The article alludes to the downsizing, but if all the "compromises" were disclosed, people would be rather surprised.
Exactly! Palestra! Should be making our own history rather than another generic Conti Forum,Trenton Arena, Gampel Pavillion, ZZZZZ etc.
Honestly, I think that's the issue I have with an inner-city arena vs. redoing one on Livingston or Busch. It's quicker for NYC people to get to (or others on a train line) because it's not far off the train station, but likely slower for the other 90% of the crowd who drives in.
I don't see what is wrong with the RAC. The only problem is that our teams don't win. If we had teams that won, we wouldn't be talking about this. Get a practice facilty near the lot behind livingston apartments, put a winning product on the court. In 10 years, build a new stadium.
Really, how many people from NYC really come to RU to watch our games? I could never see an arena in downtown New Brunswick. Parking would be a nightmare. I cannot imagine getting out of one of the parking garages. Most people going to the RAC drive to the games and now with the expanded parking lots there should never be a problem.
The RAC can be made to hold about 9000-9500 if you finish the student endzone in the corners...add more bells and whistles...and its good to go for a while.
Add the basketball practice facility with ALL the bells and whistles.
Add the basketball practice facility with ALL the bells and whistles.
Remove the slanted roof on the end court side where the students sit and build a section similar to the current sides of the RAC.
Close off Hospital Rd at the points where you enter the Green and Red Lots. Hospital Rd will no longer be a 'Thru' street.
Build the 2 practice facilities behind the RAC and into the area where Hospital Rd was and up to the edge of the
Track & Field complex.
In the second phase of construction, on either the Green or Red lot side of the RAC, build a new attached office
building for Athletic Admin and Livingston Campus coaches offices. (Basketball, Baseball, Softball, Field Hockey and Track/Field).
In the third phase of construction, remove the slanted roof on the Ticket Office side of the RAC and replace that area with
a section similar to the sides of the RAC (identical to the section created in the first phase). Extend the entrance out to
create a new ticket office, lobby and concessions.
Fire Away with your comments :D
Close off Hospital Rd at the points where you enter the Green and Red Lots. Hospital Rd will no longer be a 'Thru' street.
Build the 2 practice facilities behind the RAC and into the area where Hospital Rd was and up to the edge of the
Track & Field complex.
In the second phase of construction, on either the Green or Red lot side of the RAC, build a new attached office
building for Athletic Admin and Livingston Campus coaches offices. (Basketball, Baseball, Softball, Field Hockey and Track/Field).
In the third phase of construction, remove the slanted roof on the Ticket Office side of the RAC and replace that area with
a section similar to the sides of the RAC (identical to the section created in the first phase). Extend the entrance out to
create a new ticket office, lobby and concessions.
Fire Away with your comments :D
Shack, that's what I am saying. Downtown wouldn't work as well as people think. Also, Njtransit is starting to get expensive.Not as much room downtown as needed. Get a good practice facility. Have a driver to pick up players from Rac to PF.
Banks, sounds like a plan. We need a winning team. That's what' missing most from the RAC.
Banks, sounds like a plan. We need a winning team. That's what' missing most from the RAC.
people are not coming by train to get to the game. That aspect is overblown as most fans are within an hour. You may be helping other schools fans by having it downtown but I don't think our demos is taking a trrain. As others have said New Brunswick simpy can not handle traffic like that. It is tough getting out of the RAC as it is even with 5K
On the Banks
For what I understand...the entire service entrance to the RAC is on the backside of the arena where the students are...and that if you extend that side out as you state, then it will be too close to the edge of the road without having to move the road away from the RAC and into the training fields on the other side. Also not long enough to get a truck in there (yes this is a necessity for serving an arena)
You have to expand within the footprint of what is there.
The RAC can be expanded on the opposite side...where the main concourse and 118 is. Space exists to do that
For what I understand...the entire service entrance to the RAC is on the backside of the arena where the students are...and that if you extend that side out as you state, then it will be too close to the edge of the road without having to move the road away from the RAC and into the training fields on the other side. Also not long enough to get a truck in there (yes this is a necessity for serving an arena)
You have to expand within the footprint of what is there.
The RAC can be expanded on the opposite side...where the main concourse and 118 is. Space exists to do that
Re-read my post. The Hospital Rd will no longer be a 'THRU' road. RAC extension & practice courts will extend into the area where the road is now. The service entrance's can be on either side of the extended RAC/Practice Facility.
Do a Google Maps Earth View of Louis Brown Athletic Center.
+1
I knew what you meant.
And this could be done as you suggest if it is architecturally and from an engineering perspective possible.
But I seem to recall reading on here from somebody this kind of plan is cost and design prohibitive. Maybe they were wrong?
I like the thought of Hospital Rd not being a thru street, but still without it being a thru street parking would get backed up on that one side.
WHat is your plan for parking? Also, are you in contact with anyone with this plan or do you do this kind of work? These ideas are great.
WHat is your plan for parking? Also, are you in contact with anyone with this plan or do you do this kind of work? These ideas are great.
If the street is one way in before the game and one way out after the game you'll have NO cross traffic. If you park in the RED lot you enter and exit via Avenue E not from Sutton Lane. If you park in the Green or Yellow lots you enter and exit via Sutton Lane and not Avenue E. Think about it. Can you enter the Yellow Lot at the Stadium from River Rd or can you enter the Scarlet Lot from Rt 18? No, because Sutphan Rd is blocked off for games.
No I'm not in contact with anyone except for an email to Julie before last basketball season about closing off Hospital RD to 2 way traffic for games. I don't do any work in traffic planning. Just using Common Sense to solve a known problem.
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