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Interesting ESPN Article About B10 Expansion

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mikemarc1

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Nov 28, 2005
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According to the story, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas AM, and Iowa State and the Big 10 had mutual interest and were close to agreeing to join the conference.

However, they couldn't agree to a revenue sharing plan, so Nebraska went alone. That's when Big Ten went for the "TV markets"...and started talking to Maryland and Rutgers.

Crazy to speculate all the "Whaf ifs...". I guess, if the story is true, good thing no revenue sharing plan was reached. Who know's where we would be.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121087/big-ten-flirted-with-major-big-12-programs-in-2010
 
mikemarc1 said:
According to the story, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas AM, and Iowa State and the Big 10 had mutual interest and were close to agreeing to join the conference.

However, they couldn't agree to a revenue sharing plan, so Nebraska went alone. That's when Big Ten went for the "TV markets"...and started talking to Maryland and Rutgers.

Crazy to speculate all the "Whaf ifs...". I guess, if the story is true, good thing no revenue sharing plan was reached. Who know's where we would be.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/121087/big-ten-flirted-with-major-big-12-programs-in-2010
Click to expand...
Well that would finally put the lie to the idea idea that the Big Ten really really cares about academics over profits. I mean Iowa State? Oklahoma?

But I suspect that this article is way overselling the level of mutual interest. To me, we coudlnt come to a revenue sharing agreement, when everything is split evenly after a few years means that one side or the other wasnt that serious about the whole thing.
 
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I agree that the article was overselling the interest on the part of the Big Ten. I doubt that the 3 original teams that would have been put in the west division would have supported the idea. Bringing in that many teams from a single conference would have changed the identity of the league, something none of the original members would support.
This is the type of idea that you listen to be polite and not insult anyone, but don't take too seriously.
 
then the B12 / BE would have merged.

B10 adds Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas AM, and Iowa State
B12 remainders with BE remainders
  • Rutgers
  • UConn
  • West Va
  • Louisville
  • Cincy
  • USF
  • Texas
  • TCU
  • Okl St
  • KS St
  • Texas Tech
  • Baylor
It is possible that ND and BYU may have partnered up to get a deal with the new B12 / BE similar to ND's deal with the ACC.

Pitt and Cuse had already agreed to move to the ACC
 
I think that there may eventually be 4 conferences of at least 16 teams each. That is 64 teams, and ND will be just one of the 64 teams. It all makes too much sense to have a 4 team playoff and 4 conferences to get the teams from. Of course, we may wind up with several play-in games, too.
 
derleider said:
But I suspect that this article is way overselling the level of mutual interest. To me, we coudlnt come to a revenue sharing agreement, when everything is split evenly after a few years means that one side or the other wasnt that serious about the whole thing.
Click to expand...

BigLou said:
I agree that the article was overselling the interest on the part of the Big Ten. I doubt that the 3 original teams that would have been put in the west division would have supported the idea. Bringing in that many teams from a single conference would have changed the identity of the league, something none of the original members would support.
This is the type of idea that you listen to be polite and not insult anyone, but don't take too seriously.
Click to expand...

Have to agree here. This really sounds like there was some polite interest and possible exploration, but certainly nothing concrete. The excuse of being unable to come to a revenue sharing plan sounds like a red herring. At the time Nebraska joined the B10, the B12 was on the verge of collapsing. Colorado had already left the B12 and Texas and Oklahoma were openly flirting with the P10 and Missouri was openly flirting with anyone who would listen. As Rutgers fans know, a buy-in period doesn't stop anyone from leaving a conference that looks like it may fall apart.
 
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Lots of Espin in that article. One benign quote...from a writer.

Looks like ESPN is trying to protect one of their properties as it looks very clear there is going to be a showdown between the acc and Big 12.
 
Caliknight said:
Lots of Espin in that article. One benign quote...from a writer.

Looks like ESPN is trying to protect one of their properties as it looks very clear there is going to be a showdown between the acc and Big 12.
Click to expand...

The story was broken by a Nebraska newspaper. ESPN just re-wrote it. Yiu can take the tin foil hat off for this one.
 
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Local Shill said:
The story was broken by a Nebraska newspaper. ESPN just re-wrote it. Yiu can take the tin foil hat off for this one.
Click to expand...

And that story has less quotes and is more about what Oklahoma's President recently said about the conference needing to get to 12.

My statement stands.
 
I agree that it's spin here (and in the original Nebraska newspaper article) is that "when this deal fell apart, then the B1G stated courting East coast TV markets". We all know that the B1G and Rutgers had been in contact prior to this.
 
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Caliknight said:
Lots of Espin in that article. One benign quote...from a writer.

Looks like ESPN is trying to protect one of their properties as it looks very clear there is going to be a showdown between the acc and Big 12.
Click to expand...

It is definitely spin. Reading the original article
(which was also referenced from the blob link from this thread),
Local Shill said:
Again, the Omaha paper broken the news. ESPN didn't dig it up themselves.
Click to expand...

They still put their spin on it. What does it say about the material when the publisher completely ignores the reason the material existed in the first place? The primary reason the schools contacted the B1G was as an option (Oklahoma to the Pac-12, Kansas and Iowa State to the Big East) if Texas joined the Pac-12.
 
Need to remember was what going down and when here

This article says that their was TALK in June of 2010....

At this point
-Colorado was soon out the door foe the pac12...along with Utah to make the pac10 go to 12...put the Big 12 at the critical mass point
-the big 12 was making an ultimatium for the exit fee to be riddicoulous...and was forcing everyone's hand.
-this accelerated the time table for the big10 to decide to take Nebraksa...though Nebraska and the big 10 had been doing "quiet" due dilgency on each other for close to a year at this point...
and the timeframe to do it was NOW. Ironically...had things delayed a bit...it would have been Rutgers being invited as number 12 later that fall...

There was no chance Iowa State was coming to the big 10....sorry

big ten expansion has been about EXPANSION. Period. Jim Delany wants to move the conference footprint east. Had to jump on Nebraksa because they are a marquee brand

They would have taken Texas...but that is just not a cultural fit. Notre Dame is still a major part of the big ten's end game goal.
 
ScarletShack,
Are you saying that if Texas called the Big Ten today,they wouldn't get in ?
 
Hypothetical,
IF they agreed to be equal members(and no more Long Horn Network) with the other Big Ten schools,would they be admitted ?
 
HeavenUniv. said:
Hypothetical,
IF they agreed to be equal members(and no more Long Horn Network) with the other Big Ten schools,would they be admitted ?
Click to expand...
No. The Big Ten has zero interest them. No one wants them. As big of a program they are they are the biggest pain in the asses to other conference mates. They are the bully of the Big 12.
 
Of course the B1G would take Texas. They would be subjected to all of the same rules and regulations of the conference though.

Too much money and history, along with new markets, to not be. They fit in on the academic side too.
 
Caliknight said:
Of course the B1G would take Texas. They would be subjected to all of the same rules and regulations of the conference though.

Too much money and history, along with new markets, to not be. They fit in on the academic side too.
Click to expand...
Than why did the PAC 12 decline? And if you haven't noticed Texas doesn't play by the rules.
 
You answered your own question. The original question was posed under the assumption they would subject themselves to the existing rules of the conference.

Based off of projections for the B1G and how the LHN is doing, it is hardly a stretch. Texas involved raises those projections even higher.

Texas would have the B1G at hello.
 
Scarlet Shack said:
Need to remember was what going down and when here

This article says that their was TALK in June of 2010....

At this point
-Colorado was soon out the door foe the pac12...along with Utah to make the pac10 go to 12...put the Big 12 at the critical mass point
-the big 12 was making an ultimatium for the exit fee to be riddicoulous...and was forcing everyone's hand.
-this accelerated the time table for the big10 to decide to take Nebraksa...though Nebraska and the big 10 had been doing "quiet" due dilgency on each other for close to a year at this point...
and the timeframe to do it was NOW. Ironically...had things delayed a bit...it would have been Rutgers being invited as number 12 later that fall...

There was no chance Iowa State was coming to the big 10....sorry

big ten expansion has been about EXPANSION. Period. Jim Delany wants to move the conference footprint east. Had to jump on Nebraksa because they are a marquee brand

They would have taken Texas...but that is just not a cultural fit. Notre Dame is still a major part of the big ten's end game goal.
Click to expand...

The thing you are forgetting is that in 2010, the TV contracts did not pay the kind of money they do today. Back then, schools were getting $6-8 million a year from TV deals, as opposed to $20-30 million today. The calculus behind expansion in 2010 was different that it is in 2015, or heck even in 2012.
 
RUfinal4 said:
then the B12 / BE would have merged.

B10 adds Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas AM, and Iowa State
B12 remainders with BE remainders
  • Rutgers
  • UConn
  • West Va
  • Louisville
  • Cincy
  • USF
  • Texas
  • TCU
  • Okl St
  • KS St
  • Texas Tech
  • Baylor
It is possible that ND and BYU may have partnered up to get a deal with the new B12 / BE similar to ND's deal with the ACC.

Pitt and Cuse had already agreed to move to the ACC
Click to expand...
its hard to say what would have happened. This article makes this sound like it was 2010.

So at that point no one had moved.

But imagine that the Big Ten is serious. Does Texas still stay, given that the above is their conference? Its hard to say they would. Even with the LHN money. I also expect the SEC might have tried harder to lure an ACC team from Virginia or North Carolina if Texas A&M and its millions of cable subscribers werent available.

In short - I doubt that the Big 12 even survives if it loses at least 7 of the 12 teams (it ended up losing 4).

Topdeck - what do you mean.

The calculus wasnt that different. The Big Ten was making only a little less per team than it was when it invited Rutgers two years later. The calculus was still largely about expanding to major new markets. The only team that was involved in expansion that doesnt fit that bill is Nebraska, who is a force unto themselves (not Iowa State like at all), and TCU/WVU who were desperation moves by the Big 12.

Shack is more or less right, hence, Iowa State is not in the Big Ten.
 
Last edited:
Caliknight said:
You answered your own question. The original question was posed under the assumption they would subject themselves to the existing rules of the conference.

Based off of projections for the B1G and how the LHN is doing, it is hardly a stretch. Texas involved raises those projections even higher.

Texas would have the B1G at hello.
Click to expand...
Actually you answered you own question. The PAC12 offered if the played by the same rules and shared LHN they would be in. Texas said screw that PAC12 said bye bye.

Taking away the LHN and making them play by the rules is not an option to Texas. Thats why there is zero chance of it happening.
 
WhiteBus said:
I'll answer for him/her. ZERO chance Texas would ever be in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

Wrong answer. Texas is an elite University in every sense of the word and the exact type that the academics of the B1G would be glad to associate with. The fact that they also have a remarkable portfolio of sports programs and a blue blood football program doesn't hurt either.
 
Arizona Knight said:
There was a "Tech" problem.
Click to expand...
White Bus is right - as long as there is an LHN, and its paying as much as it is, Texas isnt going anywhere. At least not to a conference that wont let them keep the LHN. But the LHN is a failing business. No one wants it. I suspect that ESPN is keeping it going as a money loser to avoid a conference shakeup that would cost it more than it spends on the LHN.
 
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Caliknight said:
Things changed.
Click to expand...
like what? When the Big 12 rebranded it got better for Texas not worse. There is nothing that makes Texas to join any other as they basically own the one they are in. Money?? No they are already #1 there. Joining another conference will only reduce their income
 
derleider said:
White Bus is right - as long as there is an LHN, and its paying as much as it is, Texas isnt going anywhere. At least not to a conference that wont let them keep the LHN. But the LHN is a failing business. No one wants it. I suspect that ESPN is keeping it going as a money loser to avoid a conference shakeup that would cost it more than it spends on the LHN.
Click to expand...
ESPN cannot void the deal without Texas agreeing to it. ESPN is keeping it going because they are legally obligated to do so.
 
WhiteBus said:
like what? When the Big 12 rebranded it got better for Texas not worse. There is nothing that makes Texas to join any other as they basically own the one they are in. Money?? No they are already #1 there. Joining another conference will only reduce their income
Click to expand...

Financial projections are much higher in the B1G, the Big 12 is vulnerable, their champion just got left out of the playoff, and Nebraska left. A ton has changed.

It's about money. Nothing more. There is more money in the B1G, even without LHN. Throw in the other now known facts, and having the whole pie, when a piece of another pie is bigger and tastes better, isn't as appealing as it was 6 years ago.
 
Caliknight said:
Financial projections are much higher in the B1G, the Big 12 is vulnerable, their champion just got left out of the playoff, and Nebraska left. A ton has changed.

It's about money. Nothing more. There is more money in the B1G, even without LHN. Throw in the other now known facts, and having the whole pie, when a piece of another pie is bigger and tastes better, isn't as appealing as it was 6 years ago.
Click to expand...
Can you show me you #s because if Texas was #1 in 2014 not six years ago! And they would have to take a paycut by joining another conference I don't see how it's more. The Big 12 was also a game away from getting 2 teams into last years playoff. They sit in the cat bird seat by no forcing a loss on a conference team in a Championship game.
 
HeavenUniv. said:
2031 ? Wow. Was that signed by the same guy who created New Coke and the Yugo ?
Click to expand...

ESPN was proving to the world how smart they were.
Caliknight said:
Financial projections are much higher in the B1G, the Big 12 is vulnerable, their champion just got left out of the playoff, and Nebraska left. A ton has changed.

It's about money. Nothing more. There is more money in the B1G, even without LHN. Throw in the other now known facts, and having the whole pie, when a piece of another pie is bigger and tastes better, isn't as appealing as it was 6 years ago.
Click to expand...

There are several assumptions you made that might not be valid.

1: The Longhorn Network is paying Texas $15M per year. Add that to the Big 12 TV contracts with ESPN and Fox (paying each school $20M), and Texas gets a $35M payout every year from regular season TV (not including playoff money, NCAA tournament money, bowl payouts, etc).

2: If Florida State or Ohio State lost their conference championship games, then the Big 12 would get at least one team into the playoffs.
 
Caliknight said:
Financial projections are much higher in the B1G, the Big 12 is vulnerable, their champion just got left out of the playoff, and Nebraska left. A ton has changed.

It's about money. Nothing more. There is more money in the B1G, even without LHN. Throw in the other now known facts, and having the whole pie, when a piece of another pie is bigger and tastes better, isn't as appealing as it was 6 years ago.
Click to expand...
All of this was known 6 years ago. Texas would have made more money in the Big Ten than in the Big 12. They would have made more in the SEC as well, at least if they could be reasonably confident that they would start their own network. Even in the PAC12 they would likely be making more money from TV than they do in the Big 12 with the LHN. That was true in 2010, 2012, and now.

But when you are already making more money than anyone else, you have the luxury of not simply considering which option will make you the most straight up. And thats exactly the position that Texas is in. They can sit back and be #1 in the conference instead of #1B like they would be in the Big Ten and still make enough money that everyone else is playing catchup.
 
Arizona Knight said:
Wrong answer. Texas is an elite University in every sense of the word and the exact type that the academics of the B1G would be glad to associate with. The fact that they also have a remarkable portfolio of sports programs and a blue blood football program doesn't hurt either.
Click to expand...
The only way Texas gets into the B1G is if they share TV money equally. With the LHN there is no incentive for them to do so. That's the same reason Notre Dame isn't joining.
 
touchyfeely said:
The only way Texas gets into the B1G is if they share TV money equally. With the LHN there is no incentive for them to do so. That's the same reason Notre Dame isn't joining.
Click to expand...
Both would likely make more from TV and other conference rights in the Big Ten then they do outside of it. Texas for sure. They will make about $40 million from those things WITH the LHN going forward. But the Big Ten is looking at around $45 million once its new contract comes in and that without 8 million Texas households, which would likely put the whole thing above $50 million a team a year.
 
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