OT: Colin Cowherd: "Big Twelve Will Evaporate"

[demauroj]

Only realistic way around it is if enough schools leave at once that there is not enough left behind to qualify as a legitimate conference to fight it.

Actually there is a way around it, I is called Mutiny.

Let say for Arguments sake that OU, OSU, Texas and Texas Tech All announce they are leaving for the PAC 12 as what was originally the case back in 2010. followed by Kansas and Iowa State going to the B1G (both AAU Members FYI). That would leave the conference with 4 teams and the inability to call themselves a conference as you need 7 teams to form a conference as we learned with the Big East. Those 4 Teams would be better off voting to dissolve the conference and release GOR so they can move freely than keep it in tact.

Think of it as a hostile takeover

 

[Ridge 22]

Actually there is a way around it, I is called Mutiny.

Let say for Arguments sake that OU, OSU, Texas and Texas Tech All announce they are leaving for the PAC 12 as what was originally the case back in 2010. followed by Kansas and Iowa State going to the B1G (both AAU Members FYI). That would leave the conference with 4 teams and the inability to call themselves a conference as you need 7 teams to form a conference as we learned with the Big East. Those 4 Teams would be better off voting to dissolve the conference and release GOR so they can move freely than keep it in tact.

Think of it as a hostile takeover

That is basically what i just said

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The Big Ten doesn't need nor want Iowa State

 

[brista21]

When The Big Ten Opens up and goes to 16 I assure it will be from the the WEST and not the East.

Actually I could see 1 west and 1 east, but not 2 eastern additions.

 

[MADHAT1]

A nice rumor that might help OK get the expansion they want.
But don't think Oklahoma U will be allowed to go anywhere , without OK St tagging along.
I expect the PAC to be sniffing around OK and OK St while putting out 3rd party feelers to gauge TT's interest.
Texas then will have a choice, be for expansion or be looking to move if other Vitamin schools plan to.
SEC for them, PAC for the other 3 and maybe Iowa State. Maybe TCU or Baylor will be in that mix
or both Kansas & KSU ( like OK and OK St, don't think those schools will be allowed to go their separate ways by their State Legislature ) so the PAC fills out the 16 school membership that all the power conferences will eventual reach.

 

[Nosoj]

Actually there is a way around it, I is called Mutiny.

Let say for Arguments sake that OU, OSU, Texas and Texas Tech All announce they are leaving for the PAC 12 as what was originally the case back in 2010. followed by Kansas and Iowa State going to the B1G (both AAU Members FYI). That would leave the conference with 4 teams and the inability to call themselves a conference as you need 7 teams to form a conference as we learned with the Big East. Those 4 Teams would be better off voting to dissolve the conference and release GOR so they can move freely than keep it in tact.

Think of it as a hostile takeover

Worst. Expansion. Ever.

Kansas could be on the B1G radar with the right dance partner. Iowa State, not the right dance partner.

I know this is more a fun "what if" type thread...but realistically, Texas probably isn't going anywhere without Texas Tech having a landing spot. Kansas and Oklahoma are definitely not going anywhere without Kansas State and Oklahoma State having landing spots. Iowa might get pressure to vote against an expansion if it leaves Iowa State out.

If the B1G goes west, it'll be for some combination of Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas. The rest of the Big 12 schools are complete non-starters.

 

[Mr_Twister]

The Big Ten might have to cave in to Notre Dame and pay a king's ransom to get them to join the conference they should belong to.

 

[MADHAT1]

The Big Ten might have to cave in to Notre Dame and pay a king's ransom to get them to join the conference they should belong to.

Notre Dame would ask for more than a king's ransom.
ND is equal to every conference ( big or small) when it comes down to voting on issues inside the NCAA and the playoff leadership.
ND not in a conference is far more than about money, it's being a conference's equal when decisions are made and not just a member that the whole conference decides what direction will be taken
With NBC or another network willing to pay for ND FB TV rights and have that amount close to what they would receive as a B1G/ACC/SEC/B-12 or PAC member, they never will give up their football independence.
And if the ACC decides to force them to join in all sports and other p5 conferences do the same, The new BE would take their other sports or ND would go to the Horizon League or a similar small conference for their other sports. Even if they have to place some sports in different small conferences, they won't give up being Independent in FB.
They'd lose their say in all the major decisions and watch the conference they are in do the talking for them.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Money cures that and Texas is absolutely loaded. I think their AD made something like $165 million last year.

They made $165m and their expenses were asteonimical! Many "lesser" schools actually made much more $$$

Fact! Don't get hung up on revenue and pay attention to profit!

...and ou to the SEC! LMAO!!! They bring not TV worth the effort...period!

...oh, and cowherd...LOL

 

[Scarlet Knut]

It will be interesting to see what happens. I am just happy Rutgers is set in the B1G.

 

[Blitz8RUCrazy]

What does Texas have in common with California?

Booming tech sectors.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I meanthe school Texas and the West Coast.

The current Texas AD (who everyone hates) is super best friends with the current Pac-12 commish.
The former Texas AD wanted to join the Big Ten if the Big 12 blew up.
Who knows what the next AD will want, but the most important thing for Texas is to keep the Big-12 intact.

UND will never ever join the ACC for football, in fact I can see them leaving the ACC altogether before that happens. I understand they need East and West coast exposure, but playing a bunch of teams in the ACC that no one cares about outside of the big 2 is not a long term solution.

UND to the B1G is a pipe dream, For UND it is more than just money as they already said that they know they could make way more in the Big Ten than staying indy and after the new TV deal, it could be twice as much than what they make now.

 

[getmyjive11]

I meanthe school Texas and the West Coast.

The current Texas AD (who everyone hates) is super best friends with the current Pac-12 commish.
The former Texas AD wanted to join the Big Ten if the Big 12 blew up.
Who knows what the next AD will want, but the most important thing for Texas is to keep the Big-12 intact.

UND will never ever join the ACC for football, in fact I can see them leaving the ACC altogether before that happens. I understand they need East and West coast exposure, but playing a bunch of teams in the ACC that no one cares about outside of the big 2 is not a long term solution.

UND to the B1G is a pipe dream, For UND it is more than just money as they already said that they know they could make way more in the Big Ten than staying indy and after the new TV deal, it could be twice as much than what they make now.

If push came to shove, ND would join the ACC. There is a growing segment of their fans that sees being in a conference as a necessity for the future of the program. Also, they would never let their other sport die on the vine for not being in a major conference. They are not going to join the AAC or Big Easy anytime soon for those sports.

 

[MADHAT1]

ew

If push came to shove, ND would join the ACC. There is a growing segment of their fans that sees being in a conference as a necessity for the future of the program. Also, they would never let their other sport die on the vine for not being in a major conference. They are not going to join the AAC or Big Easy anytime soon for those sports.

For years now it's been said ND will need to join a conference, but most who think that forget Notre Dame would lose its place as one of the voices that have a say ibn the direction college football takes.
Also ND wouldn't put it's other sports in the BE would be their choice and the Big East would accept them.
Money difference between the P5 other sports TV revenue and the BE wouldn't make a difference , but ND joining it would bring that revenue up a bit.
ND's leadership will put their other sports in the Horizan League Conference, before they give up their seat at the table of those who decide the direction College sports will take.
There's more than money involved with ND FB remaining Independent

 

[jonS]

I doubt any of this happens. But if the big 12 implodes I hope the Big Ten goes after Texas. Good academics in addition to a storied football program.

 

[Nosoj]

They made $165m and their expenses were asteonimical! Many "lesser" schools actually made much more $$$

Fact! Don't get hung up on revenue and pay attention to profit!

...and ou to the SEC! LMAO!!! They bring not TV worth the effort...period!

...oh, and cowherd...LOL

Profits won't tell you much, actually. Especially at the mega revenue producing schools. A lot of programs shift expenses and get creative with accounting to minimize the profit they report.

 

[Queztastic]

Notre Dame isn't going anywhere as long as they have access to the playoff. The only scenario that I could imagine that would involve them joining a conference is if the Big XII dissolves and the conference championship games for the four power conferences become first round playoff games.

Texas is the key at this point. As long as they want the Big XII to survive, it will. If they decide to move, then the musical chairs begin again.

 

[RU-05]

They made $165m and their expenses were asteonimical! Many "lesser" schools actually made much more $$$

Fact! Don't get hung up on revenue and pay attention to profit!

...and ou to the SEC! LMAO!!! They bring not TV worth the effort...period!

...oh, and cowherd...LOL

How do they make so much $$$? Is it predominantly their TV?

 

[Nosoj]

How do they make so much $$$? Is it predominantly their TV?

I would bet TV is probably 3rd, behind at least ticket sales and licensing for merchandise.

 

[WhiteBus]

If you have ever listened to Cowheard long enough you realize he knows nothing about college football.

The Big 12 is locked in for many years. First the conference owns the TV rights so all schools would have to vote to disband and that's not happening.

Texas was rejected by the PAC 12 already. Mostly because of the LHN.

 

[RU-05]

I would bet TV is probably 3rd, behind at least ticket sales and licensing for merchandise.

Ticket sales for the big sports? Or do their fans attend for sports all the way down the line?

I'm just wondering how they make that much more then other schools. Certainly OSU has great f-ball attendance and merchandise sales.

 

[Nosoj]

Ticket sales for the big sports? Or do their fans attend for sports all the way down the line?

I'm just wondering how they make that much more then other schools. Certainly OSU has great f-ball attendance and merchandise sales.

Mostly the big sports. According to this: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ they made $53 million from ticket sales and $60 million from rights/licensing, so it looks like they threw TV money in with the merchandising. I'd guess, knowing what we do about TV deals that they made a little under half of that from TV and a little over half from merchandising.

Interesting, "contributions" comes in at $37 million so that's probably above both TV and merchandising.

But again, we should take this with a grain of salt...athletic departments love creative accounting.

 

[RUKeystone]

If the B1G could pull Texas and Oklahoma that would be a home run. You would have two equally matched divisions and would probably immediately be the most popular conference in the country.

West:
Oklahoma
Texas
Nebraska
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Northwestern
Illinois

East
Penn State
Michigan
Ohio State
Michigan State
Rutgers
Maryland
Purdue
Indiana

I think I just came. Sign me up for that. Endless awesome road trips for the rest of our lives lol

 

[WhiteBus]

TV accounts for $43 million. $25 from the conference and $18 from the LHN

 

[hooeagle]

The Texas football program is the most valuable one in the US by any measure. Texas is so dominant in the state that they could go any where they want without a murmur from the governor or the legislature

I don't believe any conference would allow them to keep the revenues their own network generates, it's too divisive,

The wild card in all dedicated sports networks is streaming,
. If fans were allowed to order the individual games they wanted, it would undermine the packaged deals. It's starting to catch on now in other areas with services like Amazon prime. The league networks might be vulnerable to an antitrust claim depending on how the market was defined

 

[MidwestKnights]

The ESPN host said today that the Big Twelve is on the verge of collapse.

Oklahoma is close to joining the SEC, while the Pac-12 will snag Texas. This will cause another round of expansion.



Not sure if this is just pure speculation or if he has a source, but interesting to hear.

http://collegespun.com/big-12/kansa...ate-with-oklahoma-joining-sec-texas-to-pac-12

Feel bad for WVU. Wonder what their options might be? ACC? Hate to see them in a place like the AAC.

It'd be interesting if BIG could snag VA and VATech and then WVU moves to the ACC.

 

[WhiteBus]

Feel bad for WVU. Wonder what their options might be? ACC? Hate to see them in a place like the AAC.

It'd be interesting if BIG could snag VA and VATech and then WVU moves to the ACC.

Don't she'd any tears Big 12 isn't going anywhere.

 

[RU#1fan]

Heard this same topic discussed yesterday on my favorite Radio station- College Sports XM 91.
Some guest was trying to saying the B1G made a huge mistake taking awful teams like Rutgers and Maryland and replace them with Big 12 fallouts programs like Kansas St. and Okla St.
Rick Neuheisel stepped right in and cut him off and said Rutgers is a fine football program and the B1G did not make a mistake.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Notre Dame doesn't need a conference as long as they get voting rights and full access to the playoffs and NYD bowls. Why give that up?

 

[NickyNewark51]

Heard this same topic discussed yesterday on my favorite Radio station- College Sports XM 91.
Some guest was trying to saying the B1G made a huge mistake taking awful teams like Rutgers and Maryland and replace them with Big 12 fallouts programs like Kansas St. and Okla St.
Rick Neuheisel stepped right in and cut him off and said Rutgers is a fine football program and the B1G did not make a mistake.

I almost fell off my bed reading how uninformed some of these DoDo's are!!! Don't people realize how much thought and research goes into something like that?? Replace RU/Md with those 2 losers "realignment wise",,,those are 2 who might end up homeless...UConn could take either of their places and they would be richer for the trade.Good for Neuheisel.

 

[NittPicker]

it might be all non-sense as well. So let's not get crazy..

Texas and Oklahoma to B1G would be insane. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Agree with that. Texas to the B1G would be a grand slam for the conference but it would be an awkward fit from an athletics standpoint (football aside). Baseball is a big deal at UT and due to the later playing season for the northern teams you could plan on awarding the B1G baseball championship to UT in perpetuity. The B1G is the #1 wrestling conference and would also like to grow their ice hockey presence. UT doesn't sponsor either sport. Texas would be a better fit for the PAC even if there are time zone differences.

Oklahoma is a closer match to the B1G if the eggheads would get over their AAU obsession. Not being contiguous in and of itself isn't an issue either. It's not a requirement but rather more of a preference which could be waived if the right school came along. What if Oklahoma went to the PAC or SEC?? I say bring on Kansas and Virginia but prying the Cavs from the ACC is another thread altogether.

 

[topdecktiger]

Notre Dame doesn't need a conference as long as they get voting rights and full access to the playoffs and NYD bowls. Why give that up?

They also need money too. It's debatable if NBC will keep shelling out enough money to keep Notre Dame's payout competitive with the other teams in the future.

Notre Dame also doesn't have full access to NY6 bowls. They don't have a guaranteed spot like P5 leagues.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Agree with that. Texas to the B1G would be a grand slam for the conference but it would be an awkward fit from an athletics standpoint (football aside). Baseball is a big deal at UT and due to the later playing season for the northern teams you could plan on awarding the B1G baseball championship to UT in perpetuity. The B1G is the #1 wrestling conference and would also like to grow their ice hockey presence. UT doesn't sponsor either sport. Texas would be a better fit for the PAC even if there are time zone differences.

Oklahoma is a closer match to the B1G if the eggheads would get over their AAU obsession. Not being contiguous in and of itself isn't an issue either. It's not a requirement but rather more of a preference which could be waived if the right school came along. What if Oklahoma went to the PAC or SEC?? I say bring on Kansas and Virginia but prying the Cavs from the ACC is another thread altogether.

Oklahoma and Kansas can work as well.Kansas has AAU membership and an elite basketball program but they suck at football.

Oklahoma may not leave without Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State has an elite wrestling program and would fit in nicely with B1G sports other than academics. The BTN could make up for their small TV markets by offering the BTN at a higher cost with in Oklahoma like they do with Nebraska.

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Why does anyone listen to Collin Cowherd? The only reason he says something is to get you to listen. It doesn't matter if it is true or not.

The ACC and Big 12 are relatively stable. If I had to pick one that would destabilize first it would be the Big 12. The ACC is the weaker due to a suck grant of rights deal for all 3 tiers of their TV until 2026 but they all made there bed.

The Big 12 has one major problem and that is Texas, most everyone is happy to go along for the ride, except the schools that actually rival Texas seriously. Oklahoma and OK state are not happy with Texas taking so much money and not sharing. Every other conference shares all TV football revenues except the ACC with Notre Dame and the Big12 with Texas.

As far as the Big Ten, Delaney has stated many times if the Big Ten expands it is going east. We know they talked to several ACC schools and they were:
UVA, UNC (of which Delaney went to),Georgia Tech, Duke (only if a partner deal with UNC) and all of which are AAU. Syracuse lost AAU status, UConn has no football fans, WVU is too stupid, NC State is controlled by same board that controls UNC and will never let them join the B1G or SEC.

The only way B1G goes west is if Texas came, then you would look at Oklahoma and Texas. Oklahoma isn’t AAU, but like Duke which is AAU, but has no football fans, the B1G would take Oklahoma if it meant Texas. Texas is huge, its ego is huge as Notre Dame’s and has no reason to leave. Notre Dame and Texas make a lot of money being quasi-independent. Notre Dame is effectively five ninths into the ACC. You play 5 league games a year and they require 9, you are more in than out. However, you keep all your football money. That’s a bad deal for the ACC, but better than falling apart. Also Notre Dame DOES have access to many of the ACC bowls. I believe it is the Orange Bowl.

Politically Oklahoma State wouldn’t let Oklahoma leave, Boone Pickens would see to that. Baylor although small, has a lot of powerful people in Texas and would stop Texas from blowing up Big12. Yes Kansas is available, and is AAU, but it’s not a huge market. Don't under estimate the power of a in state school screwing over expansion. UVA because of the governor, forced the ACC to admit Virginia Tech when they wanted Syracuse. There is a reason through two rounds of expansion the B1G didn't pick Missouri or Kansas.

So I see the Big12 expanding into Cincinnati, BYU, UCF, Colorado State, or Memphis long before they break up. Depending on the NCAA ruling on whether or not they can hold a championship game with only 10 teams. Oklahoma is posturing, it’s not really going to leave its biggest rivalry game. Even if it did, where would it go? If the Big12 adds teams, Fox I believe pays them more money so that they do not LOSE value of the contract and they will be able to have a championship game, which will bring in more money.

Don't think like a fan watching sports, these decisions are made based on money and academic prestige.

Cowherd is a moron.

 

[JoeRU0304]

They also need money too. It's debatable if NBC will keep shelling out enough money to keep Notre Dame's payout competitive with the other teams in the future.

Notre Dame also doesn't have full access to NY6 bowls. They don't have a guaranteed spot like P5 leagues.

They have the Orange Bowl contract but that's only a partial deal (like 2 of 6 years if they meet criteria). I know the Citrus isn't NYD but they'll have some access to that game as well.

If nd ever did join the ACC, I'd get a kick out of the team who had their nose in the air playing at 54k-seat Rutgers Stadium playing conference games at 35k seat Duke, 49k seat cuse, etc.


Joe P.

 

[MozRU]

Guys guys guys.

The ACC can't be picked apart until 2025. $45,000,000 reasons why for each each school to stay. Grant of rights if you didn't know.

That's the biggest obstacle for th B12. They can't get FSU and Clemson to come: if those two schools actually wanted to go. Beating the bag out of Wake, Duke and NC State, Pitt, BC and Cuse most years is a no brainier.

The Bobby Bowden fromula. Be the king in a "name" weak ass conference.

 

[topdecktiger]

They have the Orange Bowl contract but that's only a partial deal (like 2 of 6 years if they meet criteria). I know the Citrus isn't NYD but they'll have some access to that game as well.

If nd ever did join the ACC, I'd get a kick out of the team who had their nose in the air playing at 54k-seat Rutgers Stadium playing conference games at 35k seat Duke, 49k seat cuse, etc.


Joe P.

Yeah, that's the problem. They only get to go for a certain number of years. Plus, those aren't guaranteed spots. The Orange Bowl never has to pick Notre Dame at all.

They don't have the Citrus Bowl either. That's with the SEC and Big Ten. Notre Dame only has tie ins with the ACC bowls.

 

[MADHAT1]

ould be their choice and tjhhe Big East would accept them.
Money difference between the P5 other sports TV revenue and the BE wouldn't make a difference , but ND joining it would bring that revenue up a bit.

Yeah, that's the problem. They only get to go for a certain number of years. Plus, those aren't guaranteed spots. The Orange Bowl never has to pick Notre Dame at all.

They don't have the Citrus Bowl either. That's with the SEC and Big Ten. Notre Dame only has tie ins with the ACC bowls.

The SEC and Big Ten are each guaranteed three Orange Bowls during the contract, Notre Dame no more than two.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-acc-orange-sec-notre-dame-story.html

edit ( addition) :
What will Notre Dame's bowl affiliation be after this season?

Starting in the 2014 season -- and coinciding with the new college football playoff -- Notre Dame could step over an ACC team and take its place in one of the non-BCS bowls if its record is better than, equal to or within one win of the ACC team or ranked higher in the BCS standings. Notre Dame would share in the revenues if selected to any of those bowls, and get an expenses allowance. If Notre Dame is picked for a BCS game, it would keep its revenues from that appearance.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/77535/clarifying-notre-dames-acc-arrangement

 

[topdecktiger]

ould be their choice and tjhhe Big East would accept them.
Money difference between the P5 other sports TV revenue and the BE wouldn't make a difference , but ND joining it would bring that revenue up a bit.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Notre Dame already gets less than the average P5 school's payout. The question is if in the future, NBC will raise its deal to keep Notre Dame's payout in the ballpark. If that doesn't happen, joining the Big East would serve no purpose.

The SEC and Big Ten are each guaranteed three Orange Bowls during the contract, Notre Dame no more than two.

edit ( addition) :
What will Notre Dame's bowl affiliation be after this season?

Starting in the 2014 season -- and coinciding with the new college football playoff -- Notre Dame could step over an ACC team and take its place in one of the non-BCS bowls if its record is better than, equal to or within one win of the ACC team or ranked higher in the BCS standings. Notre Dame would share in the revenues if selected to any of those bowls, and get an expenses allowance. If Notre Dame is picked for a BCS game, it would keep its revenues from that appearance.

Notre Dame is not guaranteed an Orange Bowl spot. They can only be select a maximum of 2 times. They aren't guaranteed a spot at all, like the Big Ten and SEC are.

As to the other part, I didn't mention anything about that. The other poster said Notre Dame could get the Citrus Bowl, and I pointed out that it's a SEC-Big Ten tie in.

 

[Scarlet16E]

Agree with that. Texas to the B1G would be a grand slam for the conference but it would be an awkward fit from an athletics standpoint (football aside). Baseball is a big deal at UT and due to the later playing season for the northern teams you could plan on awarding the B1G baseball championship to UT in perpetuity. The B1G is the #1 wrestling conference and would also like to grow their ice hockey presence. UT doesn't sponsor either sport. Texas would be a better fit for the PAC even if there are time zone differences.

Oklahoma is a closer match to the B1G if the eggheads would get over their AAU obsession. Not being contiguous in and of itself isn't an issue either. It's not a requirement but rather more of a preference which could be waived if the right school came along. What if Oklahoma went to the PAC or SEC?? I say bring on Kansas and Virginia but prying the Cavs from the ACC is another thread altogether.

There could be no bigger mistake than bringing Texas into a conference that has historically prided itself on sharing everything equally. They have demonstrated that they require being the first among equals.