OT: Dick Vitale - Part 2

[Knightmoves]

As a follow up to the previous thread my wife and I went to breakfast this morning at a local restaurant in the Lakewood Ranch section of Bradenton, FL. Sure enough the Diaper Dandy was sitting at an outdoor table raising donations for the Jimmy V Foundation. I greeted him and offered to make a donation and he invited us to join him and talk about his days at Rutgers. We sat and talked for about 30 minutes and he told us about what went down from the time Dick Lloyd left and Tom Young was hired, and lots more.

When Dick Lloyd stepped down as HC after the 72-73 season for personal reasons he recommended to RU AD Fred Grunninger that RU hire Vitale as HC. FG was new as the RU AD at that time and wanted to make a big splash with his first major hire. He approached many big coaching names about the job and was turned down by all of them including Al McGuire from Marquette. Vitale went to Grunninger and literally begged him for the job. He offered to work for the same Asst Coach pay ( $ 11,000) for the first year as HC to make it easy on RU financially. Grunninger would not bite at the offer and showed Vitale a stack of resumes on his desk of Coaches who had shown interest in the position. It was pretty clear that Freddie did not want Vitale as HC. He did offer to recommend Vitale as an assistant to the new RU HC.

The Univ of Detroit called Vitale to interview him for their HC opening while this was going on. When they called DV with the offer, Vitale asked if he could have a few days before responding. He called Dick Lloyd and told him about the Detroit offer. Lloyd then called Grunninger and told him about the Detroit offer and asked him to formally interview Vitale as RU HC. Grunninger was under the impression that Detroit offered an Asst position, but Lloyd let it be known that it was for the HC job. FG then grudgingly agreed to interview DV but not until the following week. In the meantime Detroit felt that they were getting played by Vitale and told him he needed to respond to the offer by Thursday of that week or they were pulling the offer. With no indication from Grunninger that he had a chance to be the next RU HC Vitale accepted the Detroit offer as HC.

I have lots more but thought I'd put this out there for now since I have always wondered about who made the decision not to hire Vitale and why.

 

[shields]

Thanks a lot for information. Still liked Young very much as a head coach.

 

[MADHAT1]

Thanks a lot for information. Still liked Young very much as a head coach.

I liked Young , but think Vitale might have done as well or better , if given a chance.
But that's only speculation, because he didn't get a chance to show what he could do as the RU MBB HC.
Tom never built on his (3rd season) 1975-6 success and RU had some fairly good seasons after it, but also average
seasons that should have been a lot better if Tom was able to build on the 31-2 (1975-6 ) season
Not knocking Young, but wonder why he had only four 20 win seasons in the 9 years he was RU's HC after the
(year to remember ) 1976-6 season.

I can't really blame Grunninger for wanting an experienced HC to replace Lloyd ,
but can blame Fred G for being shortsighted for not giving Vitale a fair shot to be the RU MBB HC.
Could be Dickie might have given RU the energy it needed to become ( and stay) a top program)

 

[wheezer]

one thing I would add here is that regardless where Vitale would have coached in college, I do not think he would have lasted decades.....he was way, way too intense as a coach, and it wore on him physically.....I can say this as being distantly related to him at the time and having some
info in that regard.....a really good recruiter, good college game coach as he proved at Detroit

looking back at his record coaching college at Detroit, I am sure he would have put RU on a winning track, equal or better than Young.

 

[knights1212]

I think Dick would have done a very good job at RU but we will never know if he would have gotten us to a Final Four. That is the highlight of our basketball history. As for Gruninger I believe he made several mistakes. He probably should have given Dick a formal interview for the HC position. I know that I myself was interviewed by Fred for a track assistant coach position many years ago. I really wasn't too impressed as I thought and perhaps I was wrong that he should have given me a little more consideration. As it turned out I pulled my name out of the process as I was a public school teacher and coach at the time and I would have given up my position with tenure for a position that paid less and had other job requirements that were not even involving track. It seemed to me as if RU wasn't serious about building their track team. Les Wallach was the Head Coach at the time. As it turned out they did hire a very good assistant who should have become the head coach. Instead he went on to a great career at Georgetown. I remained at my school district for 36 years and was selected to the State High School Coaches Hall of Fame in 2002. Still to this day it bothers me that RU never became a power in cross country or hardly ever has an outstanding distance runner. Our spring & winter teams are pretty good but we usually have excellent athletes only in the sprints, hurdles, jumps and weights. This past year in the BIG we found out how far behind we really are in track & field behind every other BIG team. Every year NJ has some of the top high school distance runners in the nation but they hardly ever come to RU. Sound familiar?

 

[knights1212]

By the way, the man who got the assistant job was Frank Gagliano. He is one of the greatest track and cross country coaches that our country has ever had. It is a shame that RU could not have held on to him as Head Coach which he did serve at RU for a few seasons. We had great distance runners under Gags and he led Georgetown as one of the top track & cross country teams in the nation for many years. He also coached runners at Stanford and Oregon and has a NJ-NY track team now grooming runners for the Olympics etc. I think he is about 78 now and still going strong.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

one thing I would add here is that regardless where Vitale would have coached in college, I do not think he would have lasted decades.....he was way, way too intense as a coach, and it wore on him physically.....I can say this as being distantly related to him at the time and having some
info in that regard.....a really good recruiter, good college game coach as he proved at Detroit

looking back at his record coaching college at Detroit, I am sure he would have put RU on a winning track, equal or better than Young.

Interesting

 

[Kbee3]

OMG....if we had ever gotten Al McGuire how very different Rutgers basketball history would have been.
Possibly my favorite college bb coach ever.
And BTW, Vitale's success at Detroit was due to two guys named John Long and Terry Mills.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

OMG....if we had ever gotten Al McGuire how very different Rutgers basketball history would have been.
Possibly my favorite college bb coach ever.
And BTW, Vitale's success at Detroit was due to two guys named John Long and Terry Tyler.

FIFY

 

[MADHAT1]

OMG....if we had ever gotten Al McGuire how very different Rutgers basketball history would have been.
Possibly my favorite college bb coach ever.
And BTW, Vitale's success at Detroit was due to two guys named John Long and Terry Mills.

Didn't Mills play his college ball at Michigan
I think Vitale recruited John Long and Terry Tyler after getting the Detroit job and both of them had a lot to do with his success there

 

[Knightmoves]

Didn't Mills play his college ball at Michigan
I think Vitale recruited John Long and Terry Tyler after getting the Detroit job and both of them had a lot to do with his success there

Yes, Vitale recruited a number of future NBA players when he got to Detroit, including John Long and Terry Tyler. Interesting that a NJ HS coach could go to Detroit and immediately beat out Michigan and Michigan State for the top recruits in the area. He told me that he never wanted to leave NJ and only took the Detroit job because RU was letting him go and he would be without a job at that time. Interesting that Grunninger wanted no part of him as RU HC but he won big at Detroit including 26-3 the year after RU went to the Final Four with his recruits.

Didn't Terry Mills play for RU and get sent packing when Kevin Bannon became the RU HC ? I recall him launching jump shots from just over the half court line at the RAC without ever giving a thought to passing to his teammates.

 

[MADHAT1]

"Didn't Terry Mills play for RU and get sent packing when Kevin Bannon became the RU HC ? I recall him launching jump shots from just over the half court line at the RAC without ever giving a thought to passing to his teammates."

Your memory is correct and there was a Terry Mills that played for Michigan, that went on to the pros.

 

[Kbee3]

"Didn't Terry Mills play for RU and get sent packing when Kevin Bannon became the RU HC ? I recall him launching jump shots from just over the half court line at the RAC without ever giving a thought to passing to his teammates."

Your memory is correct and there was a Terry Mills that played for Michigan, that went on to the pros.

Yeah, my memory not so good...it was Terry Tyler.

 

[jellyman]

Interesting that Grunninger wanted no part of him as RU HC but he won big at Detroit including 26-3 the year after RU went to the Final Four with his recruits.

Sigh ... myth and not true. It IS true that Sellers was CERTAINLY a Vitale recruit - and maybe Mike Dabney (though I am not 100% certain who recruited Dabney - there were other coaches on the staff at the time), 2 of the stars on that RU Final Four team. It is also true that there were 2 other Seniors on that team who might have been Vitale recruits: Mark Conlin (the back-up PG) and Mike Palko (a 2-year starting center, who Bailey replaced in the starting line-up 5 games into the 1975-76 season).

But Copeland, Jordan and Bailey were NOT Vitale recruits ... and Jordan and Bailey in particular were vitally important to the success that great year. Bailey in particular, though only the 5th leading scorer, was a MAJOR difference-maker versus a successful 1974-75 season, and the undefeated Final Four run in 1975-76 - he was the defensive stopper and rebounder so vitally needed to back-stop RU's pressing and running defense and offense (and did average 9.5 points per game as a frosh that year).

 

[Knightmoves]

wheezer,

Since you knew Dick let me relate a story of what happened the other day when my wife and I met with him.
There was an older couple talking to him before we got there and the man gave Dick his business card when they parted. Dick welcomed us to his table and said that he needed to make a couple of quick phone calls. Apparently the man is a retired Air Force Colonel who needs throat surgery and is having a hard time finding a good surgeon in FL. Dick had throat surgery seven years ago and went to a world class surgeon in Boston who has operated on many singers and entertainers. Dick's surgery was successful and allowed him to continue with his broadcasting career as a result.

Dick called the surgeon's office and asked if the doctor would do him a personal favor by making an appointment with the Colonel for his surgical needs. After a few minutes the surgeon got on the phone and agreed to it. Dick thanked him and then made a phone call to the Colonel. Getting the Colonel's voicemail he left instructions on how to reach the surgeon and to reference Dick's call. He also left the Colonel his personal cell number and asked him to call him back after he made arrangements with the doctor so that he would know that it got done.

When Dick got off the phone I asked him if the Colonel was a friend of his. He said no, that he had just met him for the first time a few minutes ago but was thankful for the service the man gave to his country and wanted to do something to help him with his medical condition. Needless to say, my wife and I were very impressed that Dick chose to help the man the way he did.

I know that a lot of people do not like the Dickie V persona on ESPN basketball telecasts. I'm one of them. But the Dick Vitale in real life that I've met a few times is a well spoken, articulate and caring gentleman who has a passion for life. Since my wife and I frequent the two restaurants he fund raises at for the Jimmy V Foundation I'm sure I'll be seeing him again soon. And each time I see him I'll make another donation to the V Foundation and enjoy his company.

 

[RU76]

There is no doubt in my mind that Vitale could have landed recruits like Copeland, Jordan and Bailey and more and IF he stayed at RU as long as Young did. We would have enjoyed the same success and possibly more. But sustained success then required a move to the Big East basketball, something that Grunninger let slip away. Timing is everything.

 

[wheezer]

wheezer,

Since you knew Dick let me relate a story of what happened the other day when my wife and I met with him.
There was an older couple talking to him before we got there and the man gave Dick his business card when they parted. Dick welcomed us to his table and said that he needed to make a couple of quick phone calls. Apparently the man is a retired Air Force Colonel who needs throat surgery and is having a hard time finding a good surgeon in FL. Dick had throat surgery seven years ago and went to a world class surgeon in Boston who has operated on many singers and entertainers. Dick's surgery was successful and allowed him to continue with his broadcasting career as a result.

Dick called the surgeon's office and asked if the doctor would do him a personal favor by making an appointment with the Colonel for his surgical needs. After a few minutes the surgeon got on the phone and agreed to it. Dick thanked him and then made a phone call to the Colonel. Getting the Colonel's voicemail he left instructions on how to reach the surgeon and to reference Dick's call. He also left the Colonel his personal cell number and asked him to call him back after he made arrangements with the doctor so that he would know that it got done.

When Dick got off the phone I asked him if the Colonel was a friend of his. He said no, that he had just met him for the first time a few minutes ago but was thankful for the service the man gave to his country and wanted to do something to help him with his medical condition. Needless to say, my wife and I were very impressed that Dick chose to help the man the way he did.

I know that a lot of people do not like the Dickie V persona on ESPN basketball telecasts. I'm one of them. But the Dick Vitale in real life that I've met a few times is a well spoken, articulate and caring gentleman who has a passion for life. Since my wife and I frequent the two restaurants he fund raises at for the Jimmy V Foundation I'm sure I'll be seeing him again soon. And each time I see him I'll make another donation to the V Foundation and enjoy his company.

------------------------------------

great story, and good to hear that Mr Vitale cares about people.....

to be clear, I did not know Dick very well, I would hear this and that about him from family, not my own personal experience..

 

[RU62]

wheezer,

Since you knew Dick let me relate a story of what happened the other day when my wife and I met with him.
There was an older couple talking to him before we got there and the man gave Dick his business card when they parted. Dick welcomed us to his table and said that he needed to make a couple of quick phone calls. Apparently the man is a retired Air Force Colonel who needs throat surgery and is having a hard time finding a good surgeon in FL. Dick had throat surgery seven years ago and went to a world class surgeon in Boston who has operated on many singers and entertainers. Dick's surgery was successful and allowed him to continue with his broadcasting career as a result.

Dick called the surgeon's office and asked if the doctor would do him a personal favor by making an appointment with the Colonel for his surgical needs. After a few minutes the surgeon got on the phone and agreed to it. Dick thanked him and then made a phone call to the Colonel. Getting the Colonel's voicemail he left instructions on how to reach the surgeon and to reference Dick's call. He also left the Colonel his personal cell number and asked him to call him back after he made arrangements with the doctor so that he would know that it got done.

When Dick got off the phone I asked him if the Colonel was a friend of his. He said no, that he had just met him for the first time a few minutes ago but was thankful for the service the man gave to his country and wanted to do something to help him with his medical condition. Needless to say, my wife and I were very impressed that Dick chose to help the man the way he did.

I know that a lot of people do not like the Dickie V persona on ESPN basketball telecasts. I'm one of them. But the Dick Vitale in real life that I've met a few times is a well spoken, articulate and caring gentleman who has a passion for life. Since my wife and I frequent the two restaurants he fund raises at for the Jimmy V Foundation I'm sure I'll be seeing him again soon. And each time I see him I'll make another donation to the V Foundation and enjoy his company.

 

[RU62]

I'll give you a hint regarding FEG....he apparently had a thing about coaches whose names end in a vowel. Gagliano, Vitale, Valvano, Dinardo all were never given any strong consideration for head coaching openings and all proved to be good hires elsewhere. He would have never hired Schiano.

 

[Groz]

Jelly,

Mark Conlin was not a senior on that team.

Best of Luck,
Groz

 

[Knightmoves]

Sigh ... myth and not true. It IS true that Sellers was CERTAINLY a Vitale recruit - and maybe Mike Dabney (though I am not 100% certain who recruited Dabney - there were other coaches on the staff at the time), 2 of the stars on that RU Final Four team. It is also true that there were 2 other Seniors on that team who might have been Vitale recruits: Mark Conlin (the back-up PG) and Mike Palko (a 2-year starting center, who Bailey replaced in the starting line-up 5 games into the 1975-76 season).

But Copeland, Jordan and Bailey were NOT Vitale recruits ... and Jordan and Bailey in particular were vitally important to the success that great year. Bailey in particular, though only the 5th leading scorer, was a MAJOR difference-maker versus a successful 1974-75 season, and the undefeated Final Four run in 1975-76 - he was the defensive stopper and rebounder so vitally needed to back-stop RU's pressing and running defense and offense (and did average 9.5 points per game as a frosh that year).

More inaccuracies here. Vitale certainly recruited Mike Dabney to RU. Dabney and Vitale still to this day talk on the phone often. Mike told Vitale recently about his youngest daughter being a better hs bb player than Maya Moore was. Vitale told me the details of how he got Sellers and Dabney to choose RU over ND and Marquette. Once Sellers committed to RU he went to Dabney's home in East Orange and got Phil Sellers on the phone. Dabney was ready to select Marquette and play for Al McGuire at that time. Vitale asked Dabney what he would do if he found out that Phil Sellers had chosen RU. Dabney said if that was the case he would drop Marquette and join Sellers at RU. That's when Vitale called Sellers on the phone and asked him to tell Dabney about his decision to attend RU. Dabney then agreed on the spot to go to RU.

Another questionable statement is saying that Sellers and Dabney were just two of the stars on the Final Four team. That's like saying that Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen were two of the stars on the Bulls teams or that Shaquille and Kobi were two of the stars on the Lakers teams. Without Sellers and Dabney there would have been no NCAA for RU that year or the previous year, never mind a Final Four. Just look at Tom Young's NCAA record for RU after Sellers and Dabney were gone. In 9 years he reached the NCAA tournament twice, losing in the regional semis in 78-79 and losing in the 2nd round in 82-83.

 

[wheezer]

More inaccuracies here. Vitale certainly recruited Mike Dabney to RU. Dabney and Vitale still to this day talk on the phone often. Mike told Vitale recently about his youngest daughter being a better hs bb player than Maya Moore was. Vitale told me the details of how he got Sellers and Dabney to choose RU over ND and Marquette. Once Sellers committed to RU he went to Dabney's home in East Orange and got Phil Sellers on the phone. Dabney was ready to select Marquette and play for Al McGuire at that time. Vitale asked Dabney what he would do if he found out that Phil Sellers had chosen RU. Dabney said if that was the case he would drop Marquette and join Sellers at RU. That's when Vitale called Sellers on the phone and asked him to tell Dabney about his decision to attend RU. Dabney then agreed on the spot to go to RU.

Another questionable statement is saying that Sellers and Dabney were just two of the stars on the Final Four team. That's like saying that Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen were two of the stars on the Bulls teams or that Shaquille and Kobi were two of the stars on the Lakers teams. Without Sellers and Dabney there would have been no NCAA for RU that year or the previous year, never mind a Final Four. Just look at Tom Young's NCAA record for RU after Sellers and Dabney were gone. In 9 years he reached the NCAA tournament twice, losing in the regional semis in 78-79 and losing in the 2nd round in 82-83.

--------------
One tidbit I had heard was that Phil was having trouble getting admitted to NotreDame and that helped our cause..

I have long believed that if James Bailey was a junior on the 76 team we might have won those last two games

 

[ru78]

That is what I heard at about Sellers prior to the two threads that he had concerns getting cleared to play at ND for his academics. See if you can run by Digger to clear this up Knightmoves. I thought he was the coach at ND at the time.

 

[Knightmoves]

That is what I heard at about Sellers prior to the two threads that he had concerns getting cleared to play at ND for his academics. See if you can run by Digger to clear this up Knightmoves. I thought he was the coach at ND at the time.

Since retiring from ESPN Digger is apparently now living in South Bend, IND. that's just a bit outside of my SW FL territory. But I'll be happy to pose that question to Vitale the next time I see him if you like. I'll wait for your nod before proceeding.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Dickie v definately got mike dabney to come to Rutgers

But...tom young found Eddie Jordan in DC...doubt vitals would have got him...his connections were in ny and nj

Vitale would have had a shot to get New Jersey players Abdel Anderson(Belleville) and Hollis copeland (Ewing)

Bailey was from Boston

So if vitals gets the job...it's sellers and dabney and who knows who else

Different team

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Correct....Phil was having problems getting into Notre dame

You guys need to get vitale's book from the late 80s. Two chapter about his coaching at Rutgers including his own chapter about recruiting Phil

 

[MADHAT1]

Dickie v definately got mike dabney to come to Rutgers

But...tom young found Eddie Jordan in DC...doubt vitals would have got him...his connections were in ny and nj

Vitale would have had a shot to get New Jersey players Abdel Anderson(Belleville) and Hollis copeland (Ewing)

Bailey was from Boston

So if vitals gets the job...it's sellers and dabney and who knows who else

Different team

Just proves you never know what will happen if someone passed over , did get the job and if it would have been better or worse
for the program if he/she did..

I think Dick Vitale would have done a great job, but that don't mean he would have.What he accomplished as the Detroit HC
indicates to me he would have been successful at RU.
But Tom Young was successful in his own right and comparing what might have been under Dick V , compared to what was under
Tom Y will always be a question worth discussing , but one that doesn't have an answer .

 

[Knightmoves]

Dickie v definately got mike dabney to come to Rutgers

But...tom young found Eddie Jordan in DC...doubt vitals would have got him...his connections were in ny and nj

Vitale would have had a shot to get New Jersey players Abdel Anderson(Belleville) and Hollis copeland (Ewing)

Bailey was from Boston

So if vitals gets the job...it's sellers and dabney and who knows who else

Different team

My understanding is that Eddie Jordan was a Tom Young recruit to go to American Univ in DC. When Young took the RU job he brought EJ to RU with him. American wasn't a big time college program at the time so I assume that Eddie wasn't a blue chip recruit before enrolling at RU. He became a player at RU under Young.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Knightmoves

Nailed it

 

[ru78]

KnightMoves:
Just joking. Solid information you have been providing. Keep it up.

 

[ScarletNut]

Hiring Tom Young was about the only worthwhile thing Freddie did as an AD. Who knows if DV would have been as successful or if he would have lasted as long at RU as Tom Young did. So this decision won't get any criticism from me. Everything else he did was a travesty. The poster who mentioned FG's adversity to coach's with names ending in a vowel was correct. Funny thing, when Schiano was hired (which I thought was a great hire at that time), I mentioned it to my non-RU buddies. I said we needed an Italian American coach from NJ since the high school coaches were mostly Italian American at that time. They lambasted me. So we looked it up online and there were something like 300 high school head coaches (not sure of the exact number anymore) and about 2/3 of them had a last name ending in a vowel. They were shocked.