OT: Dick Vitale Today

[rutger80]

The 1979 fiasco was as follows: RU owned St. Johns that year. St. Johns' best player was their center, McKoy, who was a fine player. But James Bailey simply owned McKoy (as he pretty much owned any match-up his last 3 seasons at RU). RU was up about 9 points with 11 minutes to go - or something like that. McKoy picked up his 4th foul, and had to go to the bench. Instead of putting the pedal to the metal, and kicking St. Johns while they were down 9, and without their best player, Tom Young inexplicably had RU kill clock, slowing the game down ... with 11 minutes to go. And the RU players handled it badly, and let St. Johns actually close the gap to about 3-4 points with about 3-4 minutes to go ... until McKoy was able to come back into the game. By then St. Johns had all the momentum, and RU folded, to lose a close game.

Though Penn was the miracle team that year, and beat St. Johns in the next game to make the Final Four (and earned the right to face Michigan State and Magic Johnson), I believe there is no way Penn would have beaten RU - RU was a much worse MATCH UP for Penn than was St. Johns. RU would have been able to control Penn's best player, Tony Price, through a combination fo Anderson and Troy, both simply outstanding defensive players.

And then you would have had a Rutgers-MSU match-up, with 2 1st team All American players facing off in Bailey and Magic (though Abdel Anderson would have covered Magic, not Bailey). I do not think RU would have beaten MSU, but it would have been a much better match up than MSU-Penn. Many people have forgotten that RU BEAT Indiana State in the NIT the prior year, when Bird was a Junior ... Indiana St. was essentially a 2-person team: Bird and Nicks. RU beat them by putting Anderson on Bird, without help, and shutting down EVERY OTHER PLAYER ... Bird scored something like 33 points, though he had to work for it. RU won.

I didn't remember those specifics. I only remembered the ending. We had a 1 point lead, Bailey rejected a McKoy shot, but it went right back to him and JB was out of place, so McKoy got an easy layup to put SJU ahead. We still had a few seconds but, I think Griffin threw the inbounds pass away and we never got a shot off.

 

[Knightmoves]

I didn't remember those specifics. I only remembered the ending. We had a 1 point lead, Bailey rejected a McKoy shot, but it went right back to him and JB was out of place, so McKoy got an easy layup to put SJU ahead. We still had a few seconds but, I think Griffin threw the inbounds pass away and we never got a shot off.

This has turned out to be a pretty good thread about RU MBB during the Tom Young years.

I'm still inquisitive about why RU went with Tom Young instead of Vitale as HC, especially since DV had already shown that he could bring top talent in Sellers/Dabney to the Banks in just 2 seasons. At that time Tom Young had 4 years experience as a HC at American in the Mid Atlantic Conference, going .500 his first two seasons before having great success in years 3 and 4.

There clearly are at least two people we know who know the answer to that question of why Tom Young over Vitale, Dick Lloyd and Dick Vitale. If I get the chance to see Vitale again soon I'll definitely pose the question to him and report back.

I was an RU student at that time and was close to one of the MBB starters. My impression from those days is that the reason RU didn't choose Vitale is because he did not have CBB HC experience and because he was an outspoken guy that was relatively new on the Banks and may not have fit the image that RU wanted at that time. Tom Young probably looked like a more conservative choice with existing CBB HC credentials.

The other outstanding question in my mind is who made the decision for RU to hire Young over Vitale ? If I have the opportunity I'll ask that question as well. I would not assume that it was our AD at the time, as others had a great deal of influence in the coach selection process.

 

[rubaseball78]

Knightmoves - The answers to your question are probably in your post. Tom Young had 4 years experience as a college HC with success; Vitale was only a couple years removed from high school coaching with no college HC experience. I don't have first hand info but it may have been as simple as that.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Knightmoves - The answers to your question are probably in your post. Tom Young had 4 years experience as a college HC with success; Vitale was only a couple years removed from high school coaching with no college HC experience. I don't have first hand info but it may have been as simple as that.

I answered this earlier in the thread. As a local kid and high school student I was as invisible as a fly on the wall when this was discussed by major RU administrators. The short hand used to describe the undesirable eccentricities, outspokenness, etc of Vitale was that he was "too ethnic" to have been hired by the administration.

Peace out.
Loyal

 

[Knightmoves]

Loyal,

Can you tell us what " too ethnic" Italian means ? And if Vitale was too ethnic then Jim Valvano was even more so. But I agree with you that RU should have hired Valvano when he was ready to leave Iona. But once he got to NC State the opportunity to hire him start RU was lost.

 

[higgins3]

Would i be too ethic irish?What if i made the team potatoes before every game?

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Loyal,

Can you tell us what " too ethnic" Italian means ? And if Vitale was too ethnic then Jim Valvano was even more so. But I agree with you that RU should have hired Valvano when he was ready to leave Iona. But once he got to NC State the opportunity to hire him start RU was lost.

Interpretation would have to be ours as I no longer am able to read minds. But I would interpret it to mean flamboyant. And yes I think that held us back from hiring Jimmy V away from Iona...

 

[BigRnj]

Vitale, Valvano, Bobby Knight, Santa Claus... none would not have made a difference. Fred G was so deep up Joe P's arz holding out for an All Sports eastern conference that he turned down the BE, and our MBB program went into a recruiting death spiral.

 

[Kbee3]

To say Vitale road the back of Les Cason in high school is a little too simplistic. Yes, with him the team went to the state championship finals in Les' freshman, junior and senior years. However, Vitale was very successful prior to Les as well.

Exactly what level of high school competition was Vitale competing against in Rutherford ?
What Group were they ? There was no Tournament of Champions back then. And I don't think any NJ school played a National schedule in those days. So what kind of competition was Vitale getting the better of....especially when he had the next Lew Alcindor on his side ?

 

[rubaseball78]

I don't get your point. Was just saying he had some level of success prior to Cason also. East Rutherford was group 1 but played a mix of schools. Used to be part of Passaic Valley Conference which were a number of a Group IV schools. Played Brian Taylor and Perth Amboy (I believe) one year.

 

[RC85]

Vitale, Valvano, Bobby Knight, Santa Claus... none would not have made a difference. Fred G was so deep up Joe P's arz holding out for an All Sports eastern conference that he turned down the BE, and our MBB program went into a recruiting death spiral.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Jelly

You have it pretty right about the RU-St Johns game...except RU was still up 9 with EIGHT minutes to go....with Wayne McKoy on the bench

What hurt Rutgers was Young decision to play the way he did. At that point...he needed to either STOMP on the pedal and put St Johns away....or just COMPLETELY go into a four corners and stall and force St Johns to chase us and foul. (and they had some other foul trouble).

There was no shot clock and there was no three point line...so that really was a HUGE lead in those days...so playing slow gave SJU the forumula to chip away at the lead in that game and regain the momentu,

In hindsight...I will defend Tom Young on one thing though...he really played it that way the entire season. We really handled the end game "stall" stitations that entire whole year very tentatively. Once Rodney Duncan left the team...the guards were Tom Brown and Daryl Strickland. Matt Mattlinget and Bill Clarke (a SJU transfer, by the way)....and Daryl was not a great perimeter ball handler, Kelvin Troy was not really great handling the ball...and Tom Brown was very very steady...but not super quick and suspectible to traps and quicker point guards...

RU played most of that year without a successful stall game because their personal wasn't suited to it...so the slow down was how he handled it...and it was never very good that year later

And the inability to have the personel to run the four corners for long period of time caught up to us in that one

its one of the big shames in RU sports history...as RU would have matched really well with Penn....and I think win that game by 10-15 And it would have been a great hype situation with RU going to the final four to play Magic...and have the feather in the cap as the last team to have beat Larry Bird and Indiana State should RU have puled a miracle upset over Magic and the Spartans

.

 

[Kbee3]

I don't get your point. Was just saying he had some level of success prior to Cason also. East Rutherford was group 1 but played a mix of schools. Used to be part of Passaic Valley Conference which were a number of a Group IV schools. Played Brian Taylor and Perth Amboy (I believe) one year.

My point was simply that back when Vitale coached high school ball here in New Jersey he did so at the lowest possible level...Group 1....the smallest schools. Back then very few of them started a kid over 6'4". And Bird Vitale had a 6'11" big guy that some were comparing to Alcindor. How hard was it to be successful in that situation ? So he had some level of success prior to Cason. He wasn't exactly playing St. Anthony's schedule. I don't recall how many games his team played vs. top level opponents, but I'd be real surprised if most of his games weren't against the tiniest of the tiny schools.
And I don't think that's very impressive.

 

[rubaseball78]

East Rutherford was a tiny school. Many games were against larger schools. Weren't many schools tinier.

 

[RAA-1]

[QUOTE="Knightmoves, post: 232797,
IMHO the biggest blunder RU has ever made in MBB was not hiring Vitale to be our HC when Dick Lloyd was shown the door after two seasons. .[/QUOTE]

Coach Lloyd was not shown the door. RU basketball was at its most exciting at the time as Bill Foster and later Coach Lloyd had Rutgers on the rise. He decided to leave coaching for personal reasons which really worked out for him in the long run.

Recently, it was also his decision to leave the BB broadcast team.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Vitale, Valvano, Bobby Knight, Santa Claus... none would not have made a difference. Fred G was so deep up Joe P's arz holding out for an All Sports eastern conference that he turned down the BE, and our MBB program went into a recruiting death spiral.

That statement ignores the fact that the all-sports football-playing eastern conference that JoePA was for SHOULD have happened. Grunninger had the right idea all along. The problem was that JoePA was too greedy... he demanded too much from the likes of Syracuse and Pitt. If ttfp would only have accepted being equal with other members instead of some program that required concessions in order to form/join and eastern all-sports conference.. well, history would be very different.

But, yes, the Big East doomed Rutgers basketball and Tom Young.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Jelly

You have it pretty right about the RU-St Johns game...except RU was still up 9 with EIGHT minutes to go....with Wayne McKoy on the bench

What hurt Rutgers was Young decision to play the way he did. At that point...he needed to either STOMP on the pedal and put St Johns away....or just COMPLETELY go into a four corners and stall and force St Johns to chase us and foul. (and they had some other foul trouble).

There was no shot clock and there was no three point line...so that really was a HUGE lead in those days...so playing slow gave SJU the forumula to chip away at the lead in that game and regain the momentu,

In hindsight...I will defend Tom Young on one thing though...he really played it that way the entire season. We really handled the end game "stall" stitations that entire whole year very tentatively. Once Rodney Duncan left the team...the guards were Tom Brown and Daryl Strickland. Matt Mattlinget and Bill Clarke (a SJU transfer, by the way)....and Daryl was not a great perimeter ball handler, Kelvin Troy was not really great handling the ball...and Tom Brown was very very steady...but not super quick and suspectible to traps and quicker point guards...

RU played most of that year without a successful stall game because their personal wasn't suited to it...so the slow down was how he handled it...and it was never very good that year later

And the inability to have the personel to run the four corners for long period of time caught up to us in that one

its one of the big shames in RU sports history...as RU would have matched really well with Penn....and I think win that game by 10-15 And it would have been a great hype situation with RU going to the final four to play Magic...and have the feather in the cap as the last team to have beat Larry Bird and Indiana State should RU have puled a miracle upset over Magic and the Spartans

.

Shack, largely correct, but you can't ignore that he ran Rodney Duncan off the team.
And that was the entire recruiting legacy of the final four team, Rodney Duncan and Todd Milligan -- and he did not develop either one, despite their respective talents.

Loyal

 

[knights1212]

rutgers80. I was right under the basket for the St. John's loss in Greensboro. We let the game gradually slip away. We were up by one point with about 40 seconds left and Tom Brown was pounding the ball dribbling at almost half court. A St. John's player picked his pocket. The Johnnies won the game on a jump shot by McCoy. It was not a lay up. I was in the 3rd or 4th row right under the basket. There was a red light at the top of the backboard and McCoy's shot was rolling around the rim when the light went on. It was long out of his hand and the ball fell through the rim. My friend and I were so down that we immediately drove all the way back to NJ and did not remain in Greensboro. I will never forget that loss as long as I live. It is true that our guards were not the best at handling the ball. Tom Brown was usually quite reliable but as someone said sometimes another guard was a little faster than he was. I felt bad for Tom but we should never have been in the situation only up by one point. We had beaten the Johnnies twice already that year but the newspapers were all playing up before the game how difficult it was to beat a team 3 times. Perhaps that was in our kids heads. If we had won we would very possibly could have made it to our 2nd Final Four in 4 years. I forgot, we never even inbounded the ball after McCoy's shot. The red light ended the game. We never had another play.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

knights

Pretty sure this is how it went...

We did have another possession....as we called time out with :03/:04 second to go....

Tom Had two timeouts...used one right after the hoop.

He tried to get a pass into half court to use the second time out...but we threw the ball away....

So we never got a final shot

 

[Loyal_2RU]

knights

Pretty sure this is how it went...

We did have another possession....as we called time out with :03/:04 second to go....

Tom Had two timeouts...used one right after the hoop.

He tried to get a pass into half court to use the second time out...but we threw the ball away....

So we never got a final shot

McKoy had outside position, Bailey good inside position. "Last shot" caromed out long and McKoy got the rebound and his put back went in. Dont remember if we had another play. But I watched that play 100's of time. FIrst game my brother ever recorded on his brand new betamax. JB did everything right. McKoy just made a play.

And it was definitely on the Coach. Terrible game management.
Young did many good things here, and got a great ride out of that 75-76 team. But he was flawed as well. In part as a person of his times...
Loyal

 

[knights1212]

Scarlet Shack & Loyal. You guys are correct. I guess I am just getting too old. I guess the red light went on when the game ended. I just read the article on the game in my scrapbook. It says that McCoy hit a follow up shot from about 8 feet away. It also states that we threw the ball away on a last play. Loyal do you still have a tape of that game? I must see if I have one but I didn't buy my Betamax until 1980 so I doubt I have that game. Thanks in advance.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Scarlet Shack & Loyal. You guys are correct. I guess I am just getting too old. I guess the red light went on when the game ended. I just read the article on the game in my scrapbook. It says that McCoy hit a follow up shot from about 8 feet away. It also states that we threw the ball away on a last play. Loyal do you still have a tape of that game? I must see if I have one but I didn't buy my Betamax until 1980 so I doubt I have that game. Thanks in advance.

My brother is not a saver, but I will ask him. lol.

 

[wheezer]

I'm pretty sure it was Rodney Duncan, but I did see Lumpy Allen as a member of a team back when. Gotta wonder where he got that nickname.

-----------------

Rodney Duncan did play quite a bit, might even have been a starter for some games....he was an expert at feeding James Bailey for his alley oops.....anyway he was much better than a scrub that was
put in when a game was out of reach

 

[wheezer]

Exactly what level of high school competition was Vitale competing against in Rutherford ?
What Group were they ? There was no Tournament of Champions back then. And I don't think any NJ school played a National schedule in those days. So what kind of competition was Vitale getting the better of....especially when he had the next Lew Alcindor on his side ?

-------------

I was a senior at East Rutherford High school when Cason came in as a frosh....his first varsity game as a frosh I think he scored about 25 points and he was off......he finished his career as the 2nd highest scorer ever in the state, I am sure several more recent players have gone past that..

as mentioned ERHS was a group one school, they did not have a tournament of champions, but played for the group one title at least twice.

Cason would never make it through a 4 year legitimate college, to say he was not a good student would be kind....to be honest, they pushed him through high school somehow.......he did not last a semester with RU after transferring there....I remember going to the garden to see RU play and looking for him on the sidelines, not knowing he had failed out in short order....

Vitale, the ERHS coach, did get noticed because of his success coaching Cason and a high school program and got offered the RU assistant coaching job....

 

[SkilletHead2]

-----------------

Rodney Duncan did play quite a bit, might even have been a starter for some games....he was an expert at feeding James Bailey for his alley oops.....anyway he was much better than a scrub that was
put in when a game was out of reach

Unless I've got the wrong guy, Duncan was a fan favorite and did play for a while, but then got in Young's doghouse and basically never saw the court again.

 

[Bdodger2]

-------------

I was a senior at East Rutherford High school when Cason came in as a frosh....his first varsity game as a frosh I think he scored about 25 points and he was off......he finished his career as the 2nd highest scorer ever in the state, I am sure several more recent players have gone past that..

as mentioned ERHS was a group one school, they did not have a tournament of champions, but played for the group one title at least twice.

Cason would never make it through a 4 year legitimate college, to say he was not a good student would be kind....to be honest, they pushed him through high school somehow.......he did not last a semester with RU after transferring there....I remember going to the garden to see RU play and looking for him on the sidelines, not knowing he had failed out in short order....

Vitale, the ERHS coach, did get noticed because of his success coaching Cason and a high school program and got offered the RU assistant coaching job....

Wheezer - you are accurate. My recollection is that East Rutherford had a player that was several years older than Cason who was very good. May have gone on to play at UMass (I am uncertain about that - was Bill Keegan his name?).

I knew Cason pretty well from his younger days. It is highly likely he had significant learning disabilities and perhaps related emotional disabilities. In those days such things went overlooked, particularly in a rough environment like Passaic where Cason grew up. It was truly a tragedy as he was passed along academically because of his athletic ability. No one cared. It may not have been any different if he was coming up today. At that point in time, however, he was a lost soul from a very young age. Became a drug addict and died very young. A very sad life.

 

[wheezer]

Wheezer - you are accurate. My recollection is that East Rutherford had a player that was several years older than Cason who was very good. May have gone on to play at UMass (I am uncertain about that - was Bill Keegan his name?).

I knew Cason pretty well from his younger days. It is highly likely he had significant learning disabilities and perhaps related emotional disabilities. In those days such things went overlooked, particularly in a rough environment like Passaic where Cason grew up. It was truly a tragedy as he was passed along academically because of his athletic ability. No one cared. It may not have been any different if he was coming up today. At that point in time, however, he was a lost soul from a very young age. Became a drug addict and died very young. A very sad life.

---------

That other player was Bill Kesgan, I think pronounced like that, probably misspelled
bill was in my class as a senior, a tall and pretty strong player who might have been the best big man "pee wee" played with......I think they lost the state final with him despite that probably being the best team east Rutherford ever had

Leslie also played babe Ruth in ERuth. for a couple of years, first baseman and pitcher......as a second baseman I found it comforting that it was hard to over throw the ball to him, he Probably was about 6 ft 5" already at that age.

I don't think Leslie lived in Passaic for many years.. I know he lived in ER during babe Ruth age then moved away briefly...vitale made sure he was back in east Rutherford by the time he was a freshman

 

[Scarlet Shack]

wheezer:

Rodney had a hot and cold relationship with Tom...and started out really well in first game or two in 78-79. He went down hill quick...and I remmebr we went to the CatHouse to play nova and got smacked really good that night (we went to 2-2) and that was in Rodney's hometown (Philly) and something happened after that and then he was thrown in the dog house and then off the team

 

[wheezer]

wheezer:

Rodney had a hot and cold relationship with Tom...and started out really well in first game or two in 78-79. He went down hill quick...and I remmebr we went to the CatHouse to play nova and got smacked really good that night (we went to 2-2) and that was in Rodney's hometown (Philly) and something happened after that and then he was thrown in the dog house and then off the team

---------
Thanks......I never knew why he fell out of favor with Young.......but Duncan was not that typical scrub off the bench that came in at the end and the crowd would hope to score....he was better than that.....every year there usually IS a walk on or marginal scholarship player in that position,not him however

 

[wheezer]

Scarlet Shack & Loyal. You guys are correct. I guess I am just getting too old. I guess the red light went on when the game ended. I just read the article on the game in my scrapbook. It says that McCoy hit a follow up shot from about 8 feet away. It also states that we threw the ball away on a last play. Loyal do you still have a tape of that game? I must see if I have one but I didn't buy my Betamax until 1980 so I doubt I have that game. Thanks in advance.

-----
I also went to that game, very painful experience......all I can remember was that the St. John's fans and RU fans were really happy that the ACC teams bombed out in the region......I unfortunately was in a hotel packed with St. John's fans, they were loud all night, set off fire alarms, etc.......

We should have won, no doubt.....we would have easily advanced to the final four......

 

[rutger80]

When you look at the talent level of the team in 1979, it's already clear that there was a recruiting issue.

 

[rubaseball78]

The comments about Les growing up in Passaic are a little exaggerated. He did most of his growing up in East Rutherford. Only a short time in Passaic. Wheezer is right about Kesgen (correct spelling), my neighbor. He is the player who went to umass. Vitale made him a player. Had two left feet coming into high school.

Les was a 6'6" pitcher in little league. Looked like he was handing the ball to the catcher. Scary site to face. His little league team was Caugheys. At his height he wouldn't get kids price at the local movie theatre. Wheezer is also right he was not a good student. The school, his mom, Vitale all need to share some blame there. I guess you can also blame me as I got him through 2nd year Spanish. Shame we will never know what could have been.

 

[wheezer]

My point was simply that back when Vitale coached high school ball here in New Jersey he did so at the lowest possible level...Group 1....the smallest schools. Back then very few of them started a kid over 6'4". And Bird Vitale had a 6'11" big guy that some were comparing to Alcindor. How hard was it to be successful in that situation ? So he had some level of success prior to Cason. He wasn't exactly playing St. Anthony's schedule. I don't recall how many games his team played vs. top level opponents, but I'd be real surprised if most of his games weren't against the tiniest of the tiny schools.
And I don't think that's very impressive.

-----------------

I have been thinking about this post and I believe your assumption might be wrong.....near this time period RU was in the Passaic valley conference, and most of the teams were group 3 and 4......back then it was a matter of location in league formation, as opposed to fair matchups....I remember
watching ERHS playing Passaic, Clifton in football....but to be honest I don't remember basketball matchups...

perhaps rubaseball78 or Bdodger might remember who ERHS was matching up against at that time.

 

[knights1212]

All you need to do is check the microfilm at the local public library.

 

[rubaseball78]

Passaic valley conference back then was Clifton, Paterson east side, Paterson Kennedy, Passaic, lyndhurst (another small school), Garfield. I may have missed some. During late 60's/early 70's east Rutherford played all its home games at Garfield high because half of school burned. 3 state finals and 2 championships in 4 years without a home court. East Rutherford morphed into Becton the fall of 1971 with the opening of s new school. Old high school is now Faust Middle School.

 

[wheezer]

All you need to do is check the microfilm at the local public library.

--------
Too lazy and not important enough to do

 

[wheezer]

Passaic valley conference back then was Clifton, Paterson east side, Paterson Kennedy, Passaic, lyndhurst (another small school), Garfield. I may have missed some. During late 60's/early 70's east Rutherford played all its home games at Garfield high because half of school burned. 3 state finals and 2 championships in 4 years without a home court. East Rutherford morphed into Becton the fall of 1971 with the opening of s new school. Old high school is now Faust Middle School.

--------
Pretty much as I remember, at least football wise, so we also played Clifton, Passaic and Paterson east side, two probably group 4 and east side must have been group 3 at least..........so the bb team had some decent challenges


I knew the kid who set the fire at the high school, as did the police eventually, but they could not prove it.....he tried to set the auditorium curtains on fire, but had to use gasoline to further it along because the curtains were flame
Retardant.....he was a wacko to say the least.....he never would give us a reason

 

[rubaseball78]

Everyone knew who did it but as you said couldn't prove it. Embers were flying over the parking lot and Paterson avenue landing in lawns. If wind was in opposite direction our house may have been in trouble. House and pine trees were hosed down all night as a precautionary measure. Spent 7th and 8th grade going to Fairleigh Dickinson Reading clinic as 7th and 8th grade classrooms were in portion of building that burned. High school students had class at night in Lodi high school until remaining part of high school was habitable and portable classrooms brought in. Took 5 years to get new school built. Always remember Maxwell Smart was going down the telephone booth at the start of get smart when we saw the flames and the delivery man from Bella Pizza walking between the fire engines with a pizza trying to find us so we could pay for the pizza we ordered.

 

[Scarlet4Shore]

I went to Becton, but everyone heard the same story, that they know who did it, but couldn't prove it. My stepmom had to finish her high school in Lodi, and also lived up the street from ERHS on Washington Place.

You know Bella Pizza is still on Hackensack Street, and Nino is still there?

 

[wheezer]

I went to Becton, but everyone heard the same story, that they know who did it, but couldn't prove it. My stepmom had to finish her high school in Lodi, and also lived up the street from ERHS on Washington Place.

You know Bella Pizza is still on Hackensack Street, and Nino is still there?

----------------------

I lived on Washington place also, .....the kid who did it told a lot of people, I guess.
don't know about the pizzerias anymore, there is one on the corner of Park and Paterson ave

I might have known your stepmom if she lived that close to me, and Washington Place only being about 2 blocks in length... I went to Lodi my junior year, finished high school with the portable class rooms in ER as a senior....

if you want to say just her first name, I might remember