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OT - New New Jersey Medical School

srru86

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New Medical School in New Jersey

Seton Hall and Hackensack Med Ctr teaming up

More details at The Record
Seton Hall, Hackensack University Health Network to build medical school at Clifton-Nutley site

What makes this not entirely OT is this:
"Funding for the school is likely to include grants and low-interest loans from the New Jersey Economic Development Authority, Hackensack officials said."
How many of the dollars coming from the State to subsidize this thing are going to consume dollars that might have come to RU for our capital expenses?
 
Exactly. And wasn't this already done in the 1960s? SHU couldn't fund or manage their med school, so the state combined the Rutgers Medical School with SHU's to create UMDNJ.

Those who can't remember the past...

And does NJ need three separate university affiliated medical schools with their own independent networks of teaching hospitals? Esp. Given its proximity to NYC and Philly?
 
Originally posted by MidwestKnights:
Exactly. And wasn't this already done in the 1960s? SHU couldn't fund or manage their med school, so the state combined the Rutgers Medical School with SHU's to create UMDNJ.

Those who can't remember the past...

And does NJ need three separate university affiliated medical schools with their own independent networks of teaching hospitals? Esp. Given its proximity to NYC and Philly?
NJ is a pretty populous state and medicine is one of the few growth fields out there. Lots of states with fewer people and particularly fewer potential doctors (less educated populations should churn out fewer med school level students - NJ is highly educated) have at least 3 med schools.

Technically of course NJ actually has 4 already - RWJ, NJMS, Cooper, and Rowan Osteopathic - but even five isnt that out of line for a state of NJs size.
 
Originally posted by MidwestKnights:
Exactly. And wasn't this already done in the 1960s? SHU couldn't fund or manage their med school, so the state combined the Rutgers Medical School with SHU's to create UMDNJ.

Those who can't remember the past...

And does NJ need three separate university affiliated medical schools with their own independent networks of teaching hospitals? Esp. Given its proximity to NYC and Philly?
All good questions.

This being New Jersey I can't help wonder if this is tit-for-tat for North Jersey because George Norcross/South Jersey/Rowan/Cooper got their fat State appropriations to build their new Medical School.
 
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I find it strange that Princeton doesn't have a med school.


With all the pharm and medical companies in NJ, you would think that a top-notch med school in NJ could be at the forefront of critical research. Unfortunately, NJ has only had second-rate med schools. Hopefully that changes with Rutgers taking over UMDNJ. But a second strong med school in NJ would actually be a boon to Rutgers' med programs as it will provide critical mass. I don't see Seton Hall being a strong med school from a research perspective.
 
Originally posted by derleider:

Originally posted by MidwestKnights:
Exactly. And wasn't this already done in the 1960s? SHU couldn't fund or manage their med school, so the state combined the Rutgers Medical School with SHU's to create UMDNJ.

Those who can't remember the past...

And does NJ need three separate university affiliated medical schools with their own independent networks of teaching hospitals? Esp. Given its proximity to NYC and Philly?
NJ is a pretty populous state and medicine is one of the few growth fields out there. Lots of states with fewer people and particularly fewer potential doctors (less educated populations should churn out fewer med school level students - NJ is highly educated) have at least 3 med schools.

Technically of course NJ actually has 4 already - RWJ, NJMS, Cooper, and Rowan Osteopathic - but even five isnt that out of line for a state of NJs size.
I still can't believe Rowan has 2 medical schools...

The Rutgers medical schools will rise in the rankings eventually. They certainly aren't easy to get into. The facilities also are not that great. I've been to both RWJ medical school and NJMS and they really need to upgrade facilities like they did with the Dental School.
 
Originally posted by sct1111:

Originally posted by derleider:

Originally posted by MidwestKnights:
Exactly. And wasn't this already done in the 1960s? SHU couldn't fund or manage their med school, so the state combined the Rutgers Medical School with SHU's to create UMDNJ.

Those who can't remember the past...

And does NJ need three separate university affiliated medical schools with their own independent networks of teaching hospitals? Esp. Given its proximity to NYC and Philly?
NJ is a pretty populous state and medicine is one of the few growth fields out there. Lots of states with fewer people and particularly fewer potential doctors (less educated populations should churn out fewer med school level students - NJ is highly educated) have at least 3 med schools.

Technically of course NJ actually has 4 already - RWJ, NJMS, Cooper, and Rowan Osteopathic - but even five isnt that out of line for a state of NJs size.
I still can't believe Rowan has 2 medical schools...

The Rutgers medical schools will rise in the rankings eventually. They certainly aren't easy to get into. The facilities also are not that great. I've been to both RWJ medical school and NJMS and they really need to upgrade facilities like they did with the Dental School.
Rutgers didn't want the Osteopathic School, and Rutgers said "no" when Cooper came to them with the idea of a medical school. So Rowan has the schools.
 
Princeton doesn't have a law school either. It's always joked that the rankings are so frivilous that Princeton could open one and it would be top 25. I bed the med school would be the same. It seems kinda crazy to me- right between NYC and Philly with that name, but hey,,,

Why didn't RU want the oesteopathic school?
 
RU didn't want the medical school to include one isolated unit in South Jersey. Another factor may have been that M.D.s often look down on osteopaths. They joke that osteopaths are the people who couldn't get into medical school.
 
Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
Princeton doesn't have a law school either.
The study of Law and Medicine are just vocational training not actual academic pursuits like philosophy or biology.

61b7499d929450b1a57b00196473e3a8.jpg
 
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Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
RU didn't want the medical school to include one isolated unit in South Jersey. Another factor may have been that M.D.s often look down on osteopaths. They joke that osteopaths are the people who couldn't get into medical school.
I was going to comment yesterday (and include this guy ===>
tongue.r191677.gif
at the end) that could have been the reason.

Let's hope not.

"The D in D.O. doesn't stand for doctor."
 
Originally posted by e5fdny:
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
RU didn't want the medical school to include one isolated unit in South Jersey. Another factor may have been that M.D.s often look down on osteopaths. They joke that osteopaths are the people who couldn't get into medical school.
I was going to comment yesterday (and include this guy ===>
tongue.r191677.gif
at the end) that could have been the reason.

Let's hope not.

"The D in D.O. doesn't stand for doctor."
As I think about it, it probably wasn't a major factor -- the doctors at Cooper probably look down at osteopaths just the same as doctors tend to, but Rowan took the osteopathic school anyway. BTW, when I say the school was isolated, I mean that it was thirty minutes away from Rutgers-Camden, and near nothing else.
 
I am not sure, but I think it is common to run a medical school and an osteopathic school separately. Maybe Rowan just didn't see any need to add to Cooper a unit that is miles away.
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
I am not sure, but I think it is common to run a medical school and an osteopathic school separately. Maybe Rowan just didn't see any need to add to Cooper a unit that is miles away.
I think its the former. They always seem to be seperate.
 
RU didn't want the medical school to include one isolated unit in South Jersey. Another factor may have been that M.D.s often look down on osteopaths. They joke that osteopaths are the people who couldn't get into medical school.


Just compare the MD/DO MCAT and GPA scores. (Examples)

New Jersey:

Rowan University: Median MCAT total score:28 and Median GPA: 3.54
Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences: Median MCAT total score:32 and Median GPA: 3.63
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical school: Median MCAT total score:31 and Median GPA:3.68

Pennsylvania:

Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine: Median MCAT total score:27 and Median GPA:3.48
University of Pittsburgh: Median MCAT total score:36 and Median GPA: 3.85
University of Pennsylvania: Median MCAT total score:38 and Median GPA:3.84
Temple University: Median MCAT total score:32 and Median GPA: 3.68

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Its nothing new. Private schools got a chunk of that last bond issue.

Yeah but this includes no money for RU which the state asked to swallow the debt due to the corruption it allowed at UMDNJ for decades.

Granted, most of us supported the merger but the idea that a private university should get a 20M handout while a state university gets the state's debt and no assistance, is absolutely abhorrent. What a ridiculous example of corporate welfare. Not to the mention that tuition for state universities has been growing and I'm sure RU is among all public universities not named Rowan when it comes to a need for new infrastructure. Of course Rowan is also getting cash in this handout spree.
 
Just compare the MD/DO MCAT and GPA scores. (Examples)

New Jersey:

Rowan University: Median MCAT total score:28 and Median GPA: 3.54
Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences: Median MCAT total score:32 and Median GPA: 3.63
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical school: Median MCAT total score:31 and Median GPA:3.68

Pennsylvania:

Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine: Median MCAT total score:27 and Median GPA:3.48
University of Pittsburgh: Median MCAT total score:36 and Median GPA: 3.85
University of Pennsylvania: Median MCAT total score:38 and Median GPA:3.84
Temple University: Median MCAT total score:32 and Median GPA: 3.68

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

If you knew anything about it, you'd know that the Rutgers medical school has only recently become part of Rutgers, and that therefore Rutgers is not responsible for its performance.
 
Camden, I don't think he was dissing RU, just saying it's harder to get into MD than DO programs, which is true. I think something like 12% of RWJ applicants get in, it's not easy.
 
NIRH, on reflection I think you're right, and therefore, Panthergrowl, I apologize. Yes, M.D. programs are much harder to get into, which accounts for the joke I recounted above: that D.O.'s are the people who couldn't get admitted to medical school. I myself think that joke is unfair because D.O.'s are often very good, particularly at general medicine, and heavens knows we need more doctors in general medicine rather than those seeking cushy specialties like dermatology. (Dermatologists are said to have a saying: "They never die and they never get better -- it's perfect!")

Now I better stop before I offend even more people!
 
NIRH, on reflection I think you're right, and therefore, Panthergrowl, I apologize. Yes, M.D. programs are much harder to get into, which accounts for the joke I recounted above: that D.O.'s are the people who couldn't get admitted to medical school. I myself think that joke is unfair because D.O.'s are often very good, particularly at general medicine, and heavens knows we need more doctors in general medicine rather than those seeking cushy specialties like dermatology. (Dermatologists are said to have a saying: "They never die and they never get better -- it's perfect!")

Now I better stop before I offend even more people!


My comments were meant to reflect the difference between DO and MD programs.

It is very difficult to get accepted into MD programs (Higher MCAT and GPA scores).

Examples:

Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences: Acceptance rate: 10%
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School: Acceptance rate: 7%

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
Last edited:
My comments were meant to reflect the difference between DO and MD programs.

It is very difficult to get accepted into MD programs (Higher MCAT and GPA scores).

Examples:

Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences: Acceptance rate: 10%
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School: Acceptance rate: 7%

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

RWJMS also goes out of their way to to accept underrepresented minorities which tends to bring it's average MCAT and GPA down a bit. If you are white or Asain/Indian you're MCAT usually has to be a few points higher than the average to be accepted.

Also there is no medical school called "Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences", I think you're referring to New Jersey Medical School which is the Rutgers medical school in Newark.

An MD degree may be a bit prestigious than a DO but in the end they are both equivalent in the field and both have to pass the same exact examination to practice.
 
RWJMS also goes out of their way to to accept underrepresented minorities which tends to bring it's average MCAT and GPA down a bit. If you are white or Asain/Indian you're MCAT usually has to be a few points higher than the average to be accepted.

Also there is no medical school called "Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences", I think you're referring to New Jersey Medical School which is the Rutgers medical school in Newark.

An MD degree may be a bit prestigious than a DO but in the end they are both equivalent in the field and both have to pass the same exact examination to practice.

Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences Medical School is the title referred to in US News Ranking-Best Grad Schools Edition 2016.

Not saying there is anything wrong with a DO program only the factors pertaining to admission.

My analogy to Law School (lot of attorneys on the board) would be compare it to University of Virginia and Regent University (One Example).

University of Virginia Law School:Midrange LSAT(full time):166-170,Midrange undergrad GPA (full time):3.57-3.93
Regent University Law School:Midrange LSAT (full time): 148-156, Midrange undergrad GPA (full time):2.96-3.59

Graduates from each Virginia Law School would have to pass the same Virginia Bar exam to practice law in Virginia.

Not saying that either law school is bad only pointing out the differences pertaining to admission.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!
 
My comments were meant to reflect the difference between DO and MD programs.

It is very difficult to get accepted into MD programs (Higher MCAT and GPA scores).

Examples:

Rutgers Biomedical and Health Sciences: Acceptance rate: 10%
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson Medical School: Acceptance rate: 7%

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Rutgers doesn't offer a DO degree. Rowan offers both MD and DO degrees.
 
Camden, I don't think he was dissing RU, just saying it's harder to get into MD than DO programs, which is true. I think something like 12% of RWJ applicants get in, it's not easy.
Actually what he was doing was using the discussion as an excuse to point out how great Pitt is.

Im on to you panthergrowl. :)
 
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Camden Courier Post
Budget would expand Rowan med school
Another 10 Million for a new Rowan/NJIT Osteopath school in Newark.
A couple of points:
1- Norcross at it again
2- More money the State couldn't find to reimburse RU for cleaning up the UMDNJ mess
3 - Good example of why we want to keep a foothold in Newark and Camden.
 
Is this a medical school, or an osteopathic school? If the latter, isn't it OK given that Rutgers doesn't have an osteopathic school? Or is it both?
 
Is this a medical school, or an osteopathic school? If the latter, isn't it OK given that Rutgers doesn't have an osteopathic school? Or is it both?

All osteopathic schools are medical schools, just like all allopathic schools are medical schools. Osteopathy just took root in a different vein of snake oil from allopathy back in the early days of organized medicine, and took longer to stop being snake oil.

It's perfectly okay that Rutgers doesn't have a DO school--the only big public school that does is Michigan State, and most of the rest are private. But letting Rowan have SOM without a fight when they were begging to be included with the rest of the UMDNJ schools in the merger has now opened another revenue stream to Norcross State.
 
NO MONEY FOR MEDICAL SCHOOLS

http://www.northjersey.com/news/chr...for-medical-school-at-ex-roche-site-1.1364279

Governor Christie used his line-item veto Friday to eliminate $20 million in state taxpayer funding for a private medical school proposed at the former Roche headquarters on Route 3 by Seton Hall University and Hackensack University Medical Center’s parent corporation.

“This item is deleted in its entirety,” was the sole comment on the $20 million “grant in aid” in the budget that the governor released late Friday. The non-profit school at the vacated campus of the Swiss drug maker on the border of Clifton and Nutley would be the first private medical school in the state in 50 years. Its sponsors have said they hope to welcome the first class in 2017.

While disappointing, the absence of the state grant does not derail plans for the school, according to its sponsors.



Sarlo also had included $10 million to establish a branch of the Rowan University School of Osteopathic Medicine at the Newark campus of the New Jersey Institute of Technology, and $10 million towards the construction of a communications and media building at Montclair State University. Both of these line items also were deleted by the governor.
 
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whatever

We need more doctors in the near future. So having more med schools to teach them is good.
 
Who cares. We would t have gotten that money if we had tSOM do what does it matter. It would have been am additional unit with no real benefit to RU.
 
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