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Should we have promoted Shoes Vetrone to a full time assistant role over steve hayn in 2019-2020?

Kyk is spot on here. He missed some flights and got a suspension, big deal, college kids do things sometimes. He had a kid too, I think at the time of the suspension but can’t remember for sure.

End of the day, there was near zero supporting cast (Geo was a freshman and didn’t really come on strong until the tournament) and he was asked to do way too much. Still was better having him than not having him and he wouldn’t have been in Dayton in the Rutgers section behind the bench if there were chemistry issues.

EDIT: The suspensions were freshman year by Eddie, with the latter coming when the team was 6-19 and 0-12 in conference. Don’t know what it was for exactly but that can hardly be held against him on the surface.
Deshawn Freeman was very talented.
 
The assistant coach that Pike really should have kept is Fred Hill Jr. That guy is a recruiting mastermind. During his first stint at Seton Hall, he recruited Eddie Griffin, the player who proved if you are good enough, team chemistry doesn't matter.

Not only is Fred Hill Jr a great recruiter, he is a Rutgers legacy. His dad was our HOF baseball coach, and Jr was a vocal supporter of our baseball team. I still remember Jr at games standing along the fences yelling and screaming and cheering on our team.

Plus, with Fred Hill Jr on staff, when Pike ultimately fails, he can be easily moved into the head coach position. Imagine how great we could be with ace recruiter Fred Hill Jr as our head coach. The thought is almost dizzying.


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When making outrageously stupid comments, the secret is to double down. And if necessary, double down again. While most people will think you're an idiot, there will always be a few people who are impressed with your bravado and assume you have some special insight and are really smart.
 
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The assistant coach that Pike really should have kept is Fred Hill Jr. That guy is a recruiting mastermind. During his first stint at Seton Hall, he recruited Eddie Griffin, the player who proved if you are good enough, team chemistry doesn't matter.

Not only is Fred Hill Jr a great recruiter, he is a Rutgers legacy. His dad was our HOF baseball coach, and Jr was a vocal supporter of our baseball team. I still remember Jr at games standing along the fences yelling and screaming and cheering on our team.

Plus, with Fred Hill Jr on staff, when Pike ultimately fails, he can be easily moved into the head coach position. Imagine how great we could be with ace recruiter Fred Hill Jr as our head coach. The thought is almost dizzying.


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When making outrageously stupid comments, the secret is to double down. And if necessary, double down again. While most people will think you're an idiot, there will always be a few people who are impressed with your bravado and assume you have some special insight and are really smart.
Shut the f*** up.
 
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I’m not even sure how to respond at this point. By all means, feel free to think Corey Sanders was the problem with our 2015-2018 teams. Don’t think you’ll find too many people who agree with that but your call I guess.
He wasn’t the solution.
 
You seem to be forgetting all the missed layups but I'm sure the board remembers.

That team did not have a lot of talent.
If you want to see a team with no talent look at Sanders freshman year. He had his best offensive season by far that year.

Deshawn Freeman had a ton of talent. Sanders had guys to pass to his junior year. Defenses wanted him to drive to the paint because they knew exactly what would happen and where to put help and they knew he rarely passes when penetrating.
 
If you want to see a team with no talent look at Sanders freshman year. He had his best offensive season by far that year.

Deshawn Freeman had a ton of talent. Sanders had guys to pass to his junior year. Defenses wanted him to drive to the paint because they knew exactly what would happen and where to put help and they knew he rarely passes when penetrating.

Deshawn did not have a ton of talent. Deshawn was a good rebounder and had some good low posts moves but not much after that. Didn't move without the ball, was a black hole once he got it on the post and was not a good team player on offense.

Corey had his flaws but had to bring the ball up because nobody else could and then had to do everything else after he got it over half court. Luckily the kid never seemed to get tired. The only chance we had of winning back then was when Corey had a good shooting night, which wasn't often. If not, we got crushed.

Neither of these guys would be starting on these teams the last couple of years and Deshawn would mostly be buried on the bench. Corey could come off the bench to provide a spark but he would be a role player imo.
 
If you want to see a team with no talent look at Sanders freshman year. He had his best offensive season by far that year.

Deshawn Freeman had a ton of talent. Sanders had guys to pass to his junior year. Defenses wanted him to drive to the paint because they knew exactly what would happen and where to put help and they knew he rarely passes when penetrating.
He could pass to Mike Williams or DeShawn Freeman who combined to shoot 21-106 from 3. Freeman was a 6'7" wing who made 41% of his two point attempts. That's brutal. Shaq Doorson could only play about 10 minutes a game, which meant that Mamadou Doucoure and Candido Sa had to play the 5. Defenders could routinely help off those guys to stifle offense.

Next year's big man rotation was Doorson, Myles, and Shaq Carter. That's a night and day difference. And junior year Eugene was much better than senior year DeShawn.
 
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Corey was a better all around offensive player as a freshman with much less of a roster.

Baker, Omoruyi, Freeman and Williams were all capable offensive players. Freeman was very athletic.

corey had 4.3 APG as a freshman and 3.2 APG as a junior. He played more MPG as a junior. Take a look at his freshman year roster.

his effective FG rate in conference
Frosh 46.8%
Soph 40.5%
Junior 38.2%

Those last 2 years are horrific.
 
Those teams were unsolvable as mentioned. Him not leading those groups to the tournament, and him being the problem, are two very different things. You can’t move the goalposts like that.
The initial argument was about Shoes. I don’t think any players he brought in raised the level of the program or were a fit for the current program culture. I am not sure what his hook or recruiting pitch is. Going to guess what it is would be at odds with the type of players that fit in the program.
 
Sanders had no offensive talent around him. Williams was a shooting guard who couldn't shoot. Freeman also couldn't shoot. Thiam could only stand there and shoot 3's which he made in practice more than games. Doorson no offense. It's only natural to force things when no one else can score. It's like Iverson on the sixers

Freeman forced it as well and had to be very inefficient but FIG is loving him for some reason
 
Maybe we should have made Shoes head coach when EJ was let do instead of hiring Pike. I bet Shoes knows how to run an offense 😁
 
Sanders had no offensive talent around him. Williams was a shooting guard who couldn't shoot. Freeman also couldn't shoot. Thiam could only stand there and shoot 3's which he made in practice more than games. Doorson no offense. It's only natural to force things when no one else can score. It's like Iverson on the sixers

Freeman forced it as well and had to be very inefficient but FIG is loving him for some reason
Sanders had no offensive talent around him. Williams was a shooting guard who couldn't shoot. Freeman also couldn't shoot. Thiam could only stand there and shoot 3's which he made in practice more than games. Doorson no offense. It's only natural to force things when no one else can score. It's like Iverson on the sixers

Freeman forced it as well and had to be very inefficient but FIG is loving him for some reason
I said Freeman was very talented….that is all.

His last year he had Baker Eugene and Freeman. Let’s stop it with he didn’t have no one to pass it to. Plus Issa made his shares of open 3s.

I hear an argument that Eugene doesn’t count because he didn’t get good until the next year. That kind of makes my argument.
 
So let me get this straight.... Shoes was the number #1 recruiter for the worst team in Rutgers history and the question is why we did not elevate him to a full time assistant when their was a staff opening? The best stop of Shoes career, outside of rutgers, was at UNLV in which the head coach was fired for cheating.

Shoes maybe a good guy but in no way was rutgers harmed in not elevating him to a full time assistant. On top of that rutgers was not hurt by elevating hayn.
 
Ran into Shoes several years ago when he was still with RU. Chatted with him for several minutes. He came across as a total asshat, and he said several things indicating he did not like Rutgers and did not want to be at Rutgers.
 
It doesn’t make your argument at all. Geo and Eugene were still raw and learning the college game. It takes 1-2 years for players to acclimate generally.

Unless your argument is that those players got better BECAUSE Corey left, and not because they were still learning the college game, none of what anyone is saying supports your claims.

If that is your argument, it’s ignorant of reality.
What supports my claim is the significant jump in offensive efficiency with Corey leaving. If you want to offset some of that with players getting better that is fine. I think the facts are pretty much on my side when you look at raw data. Not sure how one can explain away the shooting percentages, especially as they got worse each year as the talent got better.

Ask yourself what role in a team does a player have on a top 50 team that needs the ball in his hands, is a terrible shooter, can’t drive to his left, and doesn’t or can’t pass when driving to the basket.

Corey was a sick talent. As a junior he was a huge asset on defense. It is tough in todays age to be a successful player on a winning team with Corey’s holes in his game.
 
What supports my claim is the significant jump in offensive efficiency with Corey leaving. If you want to offset some of that with players getting better that is fine. I think the facts are pretty much on my side when you look at raw data. Not sure how one can explain away the shooting percentages, especially as they got worse each year as the talent got better.

Ask yourself what role in a team does a player have on a top 50 team that needs the ball in his hands, is a terrible shooter, can’t drive to his left, and doesn’t or can’t pass when driving to the basket.

Corey was a sick talent. As a junior he was a huge asset on defense. It is tough in todays age to be a successful player on a winning team with Corey’s holes in his game.
It is amazing how off base you are. Corey Sanders was the only reason we didn’t lose more games by more in his time here. First, he was the number 1 target of opposing defenses and they could not stop him. He had to take more shots that made him more inefficient. The only thing that stopped him was his shot did not fall enough but his running bank shot on a drive was money. Second , how many times did he pass to the bigs and they blew layup after layup ? Kgg gave you the stats like 29% shooting from Mike Williams and Deshawn and Issa with the exception of 1 game on the road against Iowa was a harmless inefficient 3 point shooter whose best makes were in practice. Corey almost single handily beat Michigan State on the road when they have a top 10 team with Cassius Winston . Corey did not get enough help and our players were not good enough yet, Geo or Eugene. Mike never hit the 3’s or became the 3 point specialist we had hoped. Would have won a ton more games if he did. Third, Corey was a good defensive player that was not a liability. Fourth , Corey put Rutgers on the map in B10 with the Tourney run and announcement of Pike ‘s arrival. Purdue’s players still talk about how they were lucky to beat us and how Corey and Geo were great in that tourney . Who do you think Corey was feeding in that tourney ? We have been very good ever since.
Fifth, your negative selective memory of Corey is disgusting. Corey was one of the best players we have had and in the Big 10. The negativity in your post is so classless but totally unnecessary
 
I don't even know why this thread was started. Just trying to drum up an argument? Shoes seemed like a nice enough guy but what did he do that was so great as a recruiter? Thompson was promoted and is young and trained Geo Baker. He has good contacts in New England and helped us to land Gavin Griffiths. We are also involved with other good players from New England. I think Thompson, Knight and Hobbs all contribute tp our recruiting. Give it a rest already. I think a few here would like us to go back to the bad times before Steve became our coach.
 
I don't even know why this thread was started. Just trying to drum up an argument? Shoes seemed like a nice enough guy but what did he do that was so great as a recruiter? Thompson was promoted and is young and trained Geo Baker. He has good contacts in New England and helped us to land Gavin Griffiths. We are also involved with other good players from New England. I think Thompson, Knight and Hobbs all contribute tp our recruiting. Give it a rest already. I think a few here would like us to go back to the bad times before Steve became our coach.
OP read a comment by a St John’s shill who happens to be very anti RU as well - Zach Brazilier. Zacky Boy sickingly drools over the Big East that makes one want to vomit.
 
OP read a comment by a St John’s shill who happens to be very anti RU as well - Zach Brazilier. Zacky Boy sickingly drools over the Big East that makes one want to vomit.
Like I said, my theory as to why Wacky Zacky hates Rutgers is because he was too stupid to get in, got rejected and had to attend a 4th rate Catholic school in Queens for college as a result.
 
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Kyk is invisible when we land the highest rated recruit of the rivals era then tries to stir up a "what if this 3rd assistant coach stayed" in a subtle dig at Pike. Too much positive news flying around. He's got to try to draw attention to something negative

It's classic kyk when it comes to the basketball program for some reason. Forever looking to take shots at Pike whenever and wherever he can. It's comical at this point.
Couldn’t agree more. A bit more Subtle in his hit on Pike this time. Next
 
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Can’t pose any type of hindsight discussion (great question by the way) without getting sh*t from the peanut gallery.

Agree with the early responses - yes probably but anyone other than Hayn could’ve sufficed too
 
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