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We really need to kick the s**t out of TTFP

The Temple game scares the sh1t outta me. So does almost every game including Rutgers simply bc I feel our OL is still not anywhere near the B1G standard. A successful season would be 8-4, I don't think 6-6 is out of the question. Most would say that is unacceptable, but most have a much better OL than PSU does right now, including the "cupcakes."

Nothing will be easy this year, similar to last year. 2016 will be the year this OL will finally start to resemble a formidable line. Also, if we see any injuries on the line as we did last year, 6 wins could be a struggle as well. 10 wins would be unreal and fantastic, but the people predicting that are crazy, imo. The line will be better, but still garbage, comparatively speaking to other B1G lines. Real talk.

If our OL is anywhere near as bad as last year it is unacceptable. If we finish anything less than 8-4 then Franklin and company should be put on notice because of the absolute joke our schedule is. Last year is over and done with and I don't want to hear anymore excuses. A T10 paid coaching staff doesn't get the luxury of a five year plan when they are playing patsies the majority of the time.
 
If our OL is anywhere near as bad as last year it is unacceptable. If we finish anything less than 8-4 then Franklin and company should be put on notice because of the absolute joke our schedule is. Last year is over and done with and I don't want to hear anymore excuses. A T10 paid coaching staff doesn't get the luxury of a five year plan when they are playing patsies the majority of the time.
Agreed, except this year our line is the "patsies." It's not going to be much better than last. Any injuries and it could be worse. Last year was a D-II level line...and it had a 2nd round draft pick in it. Not this year. People say a year older, stronger, more experience...Yeah, all of those are true, but how much can you improve garbage? At the end of the day, our line is still terrible, comparatively speaking. And yes, I do give the coaches a pass on that. 2016 is when the excuses start running out. Not this year. I said the same thing last year, and we won 7 games. I'll take 7 right now. Our running game is still going to be garbage as well and Hack won't even come near his freshmen year once again. You can't do it in big time football with our talent at OL right now. You just can't.

The only solution would be to change the offense, put in McSorley and spread everyone out. Franklin is not going to bench Hack just bc our line is terrible. Hack is going to go high in the draft bc the talent is obviously there and showed his freshmen year. Only as strong as your weakest link, and last year and this we are too weak at OL for a QB or RB to have any type of consistent success for an entire season. Not going to happen.

In summary, the OL is key to a successful B1G team, and ours is a pile of garbage. A steaming pile. maybe a better than last year steaming pile, but still a steaming pile. Some say it can't get any worse than last year...oh yes it most certainly can. Combine our OL and our overall special teams and I'll take 7 wins right now, done deal, and be happy with it. 2016 and beyond look bright for the OL and ST, but certainly not this year.
 
Agreed, except this year our line is the "patsies." It's not going to be much better than last. Any injuries and it could be worse. Last year was a D-II level line...and it had a 2nd round draft pick in it. Not this year. People say a year older, stronger, more experience...Yeah, all of those are true, but how much can you improve garbage? At the end of the day, our line is still terrible, comparatively speaking. And yes, I do give the coaches a pass on that. 2016 is when the excuses start running out. Not this year. I said the same thing last year, and we won 7 games. I'll take 7 right now. Our running game is still going to be garbage as well and Hack won't even come near his freshmen year once again. You can't do it in big time football with our talent at OL right now. You just can't.

The only solution would be to change the offense, put in McSorley and spread everyone out. Franklin is not going to bench Hack just bc our line is terrible. Hack is going to go high in the draft bc the talent is obviously there and showed his freshmen year. Only as strong as your weakest link, and last year and this we are too weak at OL for a QB or RB to have any type of consistent success for an entire season. Not going to happen.

In summary, the OL is key to a successful B1G team, and ours is a pile of garbage. A steaming pile. maybe a better than last year steaming pile, but still a steaming pile. Some say it can't get any worse than last year...oh yes it most certainly can. Combine our OL and our overall special teams and I'll take 7 wins right now, done deal, and be happy with it. 2016 and beyond look bright for the OL and ST, but certainly not this year.

Yeah, we can agree to disagree. Herb Hand doesn't get paid to just Tweet and recruit. OSU won a NC with a completely rebuilt OL of normal kids. We should be able to do the same. I always find it humorous when PSU fans say that 2016-2017 is the season when the excuses stop despite the fact that Hack, Zettel (and probably Johnson) will be gone. I'm not asking for the world here...OSU, MSU and two other losses. I'm just saying we should be able to beat teams that are absolutely putrid.
 
Yeah, we can agree to disagree. Herb Hand doesn't get paid to just Tweet and recruit. OSU won a NC with a completely rebuilt OL of normal kids. We should be able to do the same. I always find it humorous when PSU fans say that 2016-2017 is the season when the excuses stop despite the fact that Hack, Zettel (and probably Johnson) will be gone. I'm not asking for the world here...OSU, MSU and two other losses. I'm just saying we should be able to beat teams that are absolutely putrid.
2016 and beyond I said the OL and ST should be much improved. We are nowhere near a NC football program. Not even close. That will take at minimum a full recruiting class. So, another 3-4 years minimum before that should even be a topic for discussion. Ohio State has 3 Heisman Trophy candidate QB's....that's the level big time college football teams are competing at. We're not there. Maybe we never will. But, the future from a recruiting standpoint could not be much brighter.

I agree about beating the "putrid" teams, but what I'm saying is right now our OL and ST are at the "putrid" team level. And when you can't block or punt, every game will unfortunately be a close game. Buffalo is the only game on our schedule I say is a hands down win. That's it. I'm not betting my house or season tickets on any other game if put to the sword. That being said, I was in attendance for the 2000 Toledo loss and the 2012 Ohio loss, so who the hell am I to say Buffalo will be a cake walk? Ask Pitt is they think Akron is a "cupcake". Our OL and ST will keep any team in every game.
 
LOL you are rationalizing Northwestern who beat Wisconsin who beat Auburn yadda yadda yadda. Dude, we were 8-5 last season LOL! And give US some credit for going down to Annapolis and beating a pain in the ass Navy team a week after our emotional let-down loss to you guys. Also bouncing back to beat pesky Indiana after Ohio State, Nebraska and Wisconsin just lined up one after the other three in a row and beat our brains in.

No doubt your defense will be tough again. Do think you will miss Hull though at the MIKE. 5th year senior, leader and absolute stud.

I thought the Navy game was probably Flood's best game last season for you guys. If I bet on sports, I would have bet the farm on Navy in that game, but to Flood's credit he got your guys focused.
 
2016 and beyond I said the OL and ST should be much improved. We are nowhere near a NC football program. Not even close. That will take at minimum a full recruiting class. So, another 3-4 years minimum before that should even be a topic for discussion. Ohio State has 3 Heisman Trophy candidate QB's....that's the level big time college football teams are competing at. We're not there. Maybe we never will. But, the future from a recruiting standpoint could not be much brighter.

I agree about beating the "putrid" teams, but what I'm saying is right now our OL and ST are at the "putrid" team level. And when you can't block or punt, every game will unfortunately be a close game. Buffalo is the only game on our schedule I say is a hands down win. That's it. I'm not betting my house or season tickets on any other game if put to the sword. That being said, I was in attendance for the 2000 Toledo loss and the 2012 Ohio loss, so who the hell am I to say Buffalo will be a cake walk? Ask Pitt is they think Akron is a "cupcake". Our OL and ST will keep any team in every game.

I didn't say anything about being a NC team. I'm asking for 8-4 here. Our OL should not be putrid this season...no way. If so, then Herb Hand should be on the hotseat.
 
I didn't say anything about being a NC team. I'm asking for 8-4 here. Our OL should not be putrid this season...no way. If so, then Herb Hand should be on the hotseat.
Social media and message boards will have him on the hot seat, but internally he will not be. He should also be given the opportunity to develop his own recruits under his own scheme with his own condition /workout program. He along with the other coaches should not be evaluated fully until they are running a team full of their own prospects. It's not like they we're taking over a 11 win Ohio State team here, the cupboard was pretty bare. I'm only being lenient because of the situation they came in to. Results should only be judged based on the foundation they set, not the leftovers from another staff. Their players, their game plans, their conditioning, their coaching...that's when I'll do my evaluations. Also, other than people just saying that our line will be better, I have no evidence of it. I see nothing except for these players being a year older that tells me they will be any better. Again, lost Miles and Donovan. I'm not seeing it. And again, an injury could derail and improvement made by off season workouts. Too little experience and depth to overcome. Hope I'm wrong.
 
Social media and message boards will have him on the hot seat, but internally he will not be. He should also be given the opportunity to develop his own recruits under his own scheme with his own condition /workout program. He along with the other coaches should not be evaluated fully until they are running a team full of their own prospects. It's not like they we're taking over a 11 win Ohio State team here, the cupboard was pretty bare. I'm only being lenient because of the situation they came in to. Results should only be judged based on the foundation they set, not the leftovers from another staff. Their players, their game plans, their conditioning, their coaching...that's when I'll do my evaluations. Also, other than people just saying that our line will be better, I have no evidence of it. I see nothing except for these players being a year older that tells me they will be any better. Again, lost Miles and Donovan. I'm not seeing it. And again, an injury could derail and improvement made by off season workouts. Too little experience and depth to overcome. Hope I'm wrong.

Could not disagree more. The cupboard was bare on the OL maybe but that's it. Our fans have been brainwashed over the years to believe that an OL should only be expected to produce in their 4th and 5th year and a good OL every five years is normal. Meanwhile, programs across the country are starting underclassmen on the OL and doing just fine. It's not like this coaching staff was going from a pro set to an option attack. Good grief.
 
We can tell you first hand about the impact bad OL recruiting can have on your entire program and it lasts a lot longer than just one season. After boasting OL's from 2005-2007 that would be rated in the top half of any major conference, our OL started going in the crapper in 2009 due to terrible recruiting which makes Floods first 4 OL recruiting classes as head coach look like Stanford's by comparison. Schiano, by his own admission, began to "chase a trend" which was his half-assed attempt to convert to a spread offense and really began to undervalue OL recruiting after we signed arguably our best O-linemen ever Anthony Davis in 2007. In 2010 we were historically bad giving up the most sacks in NCAA D1-A history. The OL slowly improved from 2011-2013 but at a snails pace and we were fortunate to have relatively easy schedules in what was for all intents and purposes a mid-major conference. We also featured a back in Juwann Jamison who could make something out of nothing. In 2014 we started to see us return to having a legitimate P5 conference level offensive line in conjunction with some really talented backs. But all in all we had about a 5-season cycle of below average to bad OL play so while PSU's may not last that long due to stronger recruiting than we had, it is certainly possible that this year's PSU's OL is marginally but not significantly better than last years. And the poster's prediction for 2016-2017 being when you start to see real improvements may be somewhat plausible. BOB's ignoring of the OL in recruiting, albeit for only a few years, can have that kind of impact.
 
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We can tell you first hand about the impact bad OL recruiting can have on your entire program and it lasts a lot longer than just one season. After boasting OL's from 2005-2007 that would be rated in the top half of any major conference, our OL started going in the crapper in 2009 due to terrible recruiting which makes Floods first 4 OL recruiting classes as head coach look like Stanford's by comparison. Schiano, by his own admission, began to "chase a trend" which was his half-assed attempt to convert to a spread offense and really began to undervalue OL recruiting after we signed arguably our best O-linemen ever Anthony Davis in 2007. In 2010 we were historically bad giving up the most sacks in NCAA D1-A history. The OL slowly improved from 2011-2013 but at a snails pace and we were fortunate to have relatively easy schedules in what was for all intents and purposes a mid-major conference. We also featured a back in Juwann Jamison who could make something out of nothing. In 2014 we started to see us return to having a legitimate P5 conference level offensive line in conjunction with some really talented backs. But all in all we had about a 5-season cycle of below average to bad OL play so while PSU's may not last that long due to stronger recruiting than we had, it is certainly possible that this year's PSU's OL is marginally but not significantly better than last years. And the poster's prediction for 2016-2017 being when you start to see real improvements may be somewhat plausible. BOB's ignoring of the OL in recruiting, albeit for only a few years, can have that kind of impact.

I think the issue I have is that there are some good players on the OL and the silver lining to last year should be the amount of playing time they all had. You also throw in some kids who were recruited by Franklin while at Vandy and flipped to PSU. Is it ideal for them to play now - no. Could they possibly contribute to a three-deep or even be used for a rotation - I hope one could.

Mangiro is solid but I wish he was at Guard. Dowrey is solid and so is Nelson. Mahon has now had three years in the program. Those guys should be improved and be able to at least give us an average to slightly below average OL. We were arguably the worst OL in CFB last season.
 
Could not disagree more. The cupboard was bare on the OL maybe but that's it. Our fans have been brainwashed over the years to believe that an OL should only be expected to produce in their 4th and 5th year and a good OL every five years is normal. Meanwhile, programs across the country are starting underclassmen on the OL and doing just fine. It's not like this coaching staff was going from a pro set to an option attack. Good grief.
Could care less what happens at other programs. I work with what's in front of me. Our line was garbage and no one has done or said anything other than they are a year older to convince me that they are not still garbage. I'll believe it when I see it. But, If I were Lynch or Hack I'd be taking out insurance policies.

Also, you are making my point. What makes you believe our line will be any better? I'm not one of those people that believe they get better with age...it's what I have been saying in this thread the whole time! They are GARBAGE. I don't care if they are a year older, they are just an older piece of garbage. They are not B1G linemen. Hack and our running game are going to suffer yet again. Blame it on the coaches or the players, I don't care. The facts are the facts. our line and ST's were terrible and I see nothing to convince me that they won't be the same.

7 wins. I'll take it right now. Anything more and Franklin gets coach of the year. O'Brien was the one that came in with a still fairly full cupboard and a bunch of seniors...Franklin came in to a garbage fire in many key positions.

Maybe we're watching two different Penn State teams on Saturday's. The one I've been watching has a terrible offensive line, terrible special teams and depth issues at many key positions, LB being one of them. Any injuries to those positions and my 7 drops to 6. I don't deal in excuses, I deal in reality. That is why we won the battle with Rutgers, but not the war. They had more depth and talent overall and finished higher. Depth and inexperience and terrible OL and ST caught up with us.
 
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I also don't think Hackenburg is Franklin's QB of choice. He's a very good pro-style prospect but it appears to me that JF wants to go in a different direction with your offense. Not saying you guys will eventually go to all out spread "fun and gun" but I think at the very least JF values mobility in his QBs. Just my opinion and things I've heard from people in Donovan's circle.
 
Could care less what happens at other programs. I work with what's in front of me. Our line was garbage and no one has done or said anything other than they are a year older to convince me that they are not still garbage. I'll believe it when I see it. But, If I were Lynch or Hack I'd be taking out insurance policies.

Also, you are making my point. What makes you believe our line will be any better? I'm not one of those people that believe they get better with age...it's what I have been saying in this thread the whole time! They are GARBAGE. I don't care if they are a year older, they are just an older piece of garbage. They are not B1G linemen. Hack and our running game are going to suffer yet again. Blame it on the coaches or the players, I don't care. The facts are the facts. our line and ST's were terrible and I see nothing to convince me that they won't be the same.

7 wins. I'll take it right now. Anything more and Franklin gets coach of the year. O'Brien was the one that came in with a still fairly full cupboard and a bunch of seniors...Franklin came in to a garbage fire in many key positions.

Maybe we're watching two different Penn State teams on Saturday's. The one I've been watching has a terrible offensive line, terrible special teams and depth issues at many key positions, LB being one of them. Any injuries to those positions and my 7 drops to 6. I don't deal in excuses, I deal in reality. That is why we won the battle with Rutgers, but not the war. They had more depth and talent overall and finished higher. Depth and inexperience and terrible OL and ST caught up with us.

What makes me believe they will be better:
  • An additional year in a system which was new to them
  • An additional year with (mostly) the same players next to them
  • An additional year in the weight room and/or natural body maturity
  • An additional year to work on technique
  • More overall depth and competition along the OL
  • A young WR corps who has had an additional year to work on route running, getting off the line and timing
  • The return of the best blocking TE on the roster
  • A much, much, much deeper stable of RBs who may actually be able to block
  • A coaching staff that realizes they need to give the QB more ability to change at the LOS (doubtful)
 
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I also don't think Hackenburg is Franklin's QB of choice. He's a very good pro-style prospect but it appears to me that JF wants to go in a different direction with your offense. Not saying you guys will eventually go to all out spread "fun and gun" but I think at the very least JF values mobility in his QBs. Just my opinion and things I've heard from people in Donovan's circle.
There's no doubt that Hack is not the QB mold that Franklin wants in his offense. That's hard to say knowing how much of a bright side the kid has and what he may eventually be in the NFL. But, as long as Franklin is around you will not see another QB like Hack running his offense. That's why I also said that playing the more mobile backup QB McSorley may actually work better in the sort-term. Won't happen tho,and I agree that it shouldn't.
 
I also don't think Hackenburg is Franklin's QB of choice. He's a very good pro-style prospect but it appears to me that JF wants to go in a different direction with your offense. Not saying you guys will eventually go to all out spread "fun and gun" but I think at the very least JF values mobility in his QBs. Just my opinion and things I've heard from people in Donovan's circle.

Interesting since PSU is taking one QB who is pro-style and has worse quickness and speed measurables than Hack did in HS. You can look them up and compare on ESPN.
 
There's no doubt that Hack is not the QB mold that Franklin wants in his offense. That's hard to say knowing how much of a bright side the kid has and what he may eventually be in the NFL. But, as long as Franklin is around you will not see another QB like Hack running his offense. That's why I also said that playing the more mobile backup QB McSorley may actually work better in the sort-term. Won't happen tho,and I agree that it shouldn't.

You mean like Zembiec?
 
What makes me believe they will be better:
  • An additional year in a system which was new to them
  • An additional year with (mostly) the same players next to them
  • An additional year in the weight room and/or natural body maturity
  • An additional year to work on technique
  • More overall depth and competition along the OL
  • A young WR corps who has had an additional year to work on route running, getting off the line and timing
  • The return of the best blocking TE on the roster
  • A much, much, much deeper stable of RBs who may actually be able to block
  • A coaching staff that realizes they need to give the QB more ability to change at the LOS (doubtful)
Yep, all of that would be the typical progression. Hopefully that turns out to be the case. it might even happen. But, I'm contending that it won't be enough and with the loss of Donovan and Miles (I know he barely played) that it will offset any progression. Also, I still am not sure how the offense intends to integrate the depth and talent at TE. It would be a complete waste if not used correctly. So much of an advantage for us at that position.
 
Yep, all of that would be the typical progression. Hopefully that turns out to be the case. it might even happen. But, I'm contending that it won't be enough and with the loss of Donovan and Miles (I know he barely played) that it will offset any progression. Also, I still am not sure how the offense intends to integrate the depth and talent at TE. It would be a complete waste if not used correctly. So much of an advantage for us at that position.

Now this I can get behind. They won't use it because Donovan is terrible.
 
You mean like Zembiec?
Zembiec looks like Johnny Manziel compared to Hack. Zembiec's tape is great, and had it not been for an injury I believe he would have been a consensus 4* which he proved at the Opening. That kid has wheels and a decent frame. Not the arm strength that Hack has, but not many do. Kids labeled "pro-style" have a tendency to be thought of as only pocket passers. Not the case anymore. He can do both very well. Hack cannot. At all. he can't and shouldn't run. Ever. He's a Brady, a Peyton, give him time and he's lethal.
 
We're going to lose to Temple now? hope can drive a man insane, you know

Do you honestly think you'll be more than a 7 point favorite over Temple? With Temple's senior-laden team, this is the best chance they have of beating you in the last 3 decades.

While I think PSU will win, I give Temple a very real chance of pulling out the stunner here.
 
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Zembiec looks like Johnny Manziel compared to Hack. Zembiec's tape is great, and had it not been for an injury I believe he would have been a consensus 4* which he proved at the Opening. That kid has wheels and a decent frame. Not the arm strength that Hack has, but not many do. Kids labeled "pro-style" have a tendency to be thought of as only pocket passers. Not the case anymore. He can do both very well. Hack cannot. At all. he can't and shouldn't run. Ever. He's a Brady, a Peyton, give him time and he's lethal.

Hack had both a better 40 and shuttle than Zembiec coming out of HS.
 
Now this I can get behind. They won't use it because Donovan is terrible.
The play calling has been terrible. I'm really not a lenient guy, but I do reserve judgement even on Donovan until he has the players to fit his system. That being said, something has to be better with the play calling and I wish Franklin would take more control over the offense than it seems he does. Maybe he is and we just don't see it, but he seems pretty hands-off and gives the reigns completely to Donovan. I mean, he was a college QB, he should have major input!
 
Do you honestly think you'll be more than a 7 point favorite over Temple? With Temple's senior-laden team, this is the best chance they have of beating you in the last 3 decades.

While I think PSU will win, I give Temple a very real chance of pulling out the stunner here.

No way will we be a 10 point favorite as they will get 3 just for being at home.
 
The play calling has been terrible. I'm really not a lenient guy, but I do reserve judgement even on Donovan until he has the players to fit his system. That being said, something has to be better with the play calling and I wish Franklin would take more control over the offense than it seems he does. Maybe he is and we just don't see it, but he seems pretty hands-off and gives the reigns completely to Donovan. I mean, he was a college QB, he should have major input!

I love the Haslett move as I think JF realizes he needs some help. Maybe it is because Shoop could bolt or maybe it is because Donovan is not very good. Regardless, it is a smart move. IMO, Franklin's best bet may be to be a recruiter and a motivator and then get out of the way.
 
Hack had both a better 40 and shuttle than Zembiec coming out of HS.
I guess it goes to show you what those numbers really mean. I remember people saying Hack was pretty nimble coming out of HS. Maybe Bill put a bug in his ear about running. Zembiec's tape looks really good in terms of athletic ability. He can move and it looks like he has a strong arm, so who knows.
 
I love the Haslett move as I think JF realizes he needs some help. Maybe it is because Shoop could bolt or maybe it is because Donovan is not very good. Regardless, it is a smart move. IMO, Franklin's best bet may be to be a recruiter and a motivator and then get out of the way.
Initial inclination as soon as I heard about the Haslett hire was that it's cover for when Shoop eventually moves on. You know he's going to get head coaching offers. We kept him since LSU was lateral, but a HC position would prob lure him.
 
Do you honestly think you'll be more than a 7 point favorite over Temple? With Temple's senior-laden team, this is the best chance they have of beating you in the last 3 decades.

While I think PSU will win, I give Temple a very real chance of pulling out the stunner here.

I think the Temple game will be a good forecast of how our season will turn out. Dominate that game and we are on our way to 10-2. Win ugly, 8-4. Lose, 6-6.
 
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Do you honestly think you'll be more than a 7 point favorite over Temple? With Temple's senior-laden team, this is the best chance they have of beating you in the last 3 decades.

While I think PSU will win, I give Temple a very real chance of pulling out the stunner here.

i think it's already out...we're 4.5 point favs. kind of a scary line, actually.

no, I know they're improved and return a lot of starters....i'm just being cocky.....you know us PSU fans;)
 
No way will we be a 10 point favorite as they will get 3 just for being at home.

Temple doesn't get the normal 3 point bump from the odds makers playing PSU at the Linc, because everyone including the odds makers know there will be more PSU fans there than TU fans.

But to my point, I I see this game anywhere from a 2-5 point PSU favorite and no more.

I see it now as PSU -3.

That's upset territory.
 
Temple doesn't get the normal 3 point bump from the odds makers playing PSU at the Linc, because everyone including the odds makers know there will be more PSU fans there than TU fans.

But to my point, I I see this game anywhere from a 2-5 point PSU favorite and no more.

I see it now as PSU -3.

That's upset territory.

thought it was -4.5?......if it's -3...I don't like that at all. Christ...I don't need to be worrying about Temple
 
thought it was -4.5?......if it's -3...I don't like that at all. Christ...I don't need to be worrying about Temple


No I don't know what it is....the 3 points is just my opinion of what it will be.

If you saw it as 4.5 then I'm sure that is correct. That is actually still in line with what I think it could be.
 
No I don't know what it is....the 3 points is just my opinion of what it will be.

If you saw it as 4.5 then I'm sure that is correct. That is actually still in line with what I think it could be.

ok...gosh, don't scare me
 
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