18 PSU frat Bros charged in NJ student death
- Thread starter BlockR
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The frat guys are idiots. Maybe they should be civilly liable. Charging them criminally and ruining the rest of their lives doesn't solve anything. Nobody put a gun to that kid's head an made him drink anything. All the police and prosecutors are doing is ruining more lives. It's a tragedy but criminal charges are ridiculous. Maybe they should charge the girls at TCNJ who had that pancake eating contest too.
This is one thing I won't rip on the school itself for- this stuff happens everywhere.
They prevented a person who was I'll from getting medical attention and the result was death. They earned the consequences that come their way.
Are you kidding me??? Number one, they served alcohol to minors. Number two, they pressured minors to drink ungodly amounts of alcohol. It was estimated Piazza's BAC was 0.40. They are criminally responsible for the circumstances surrounding his death...and to top it off, they are negligent in the actions they took to help this poor kid. Pizza hit his fell down stairs and hit his head numerous times. When they found him in the morning, it sounds like he was experiencing decorticate posturing, indicating a very high level of brain injury.
"The pledges were pressured to run a "gauntlet" of drinking stations that required them to chug vodka, shotgun beers and drink wine, according to the grand jury."
"Piazza fell down a long set of steps that night, and fell several other times, injuring his head, Miller said. The next morning he fell down the same steps a second time, and was unconscious when help was finally summoned."
"When a fraternity brother insisted Piazza needed medical help, he was confronted and shoved into a wall, the report said. When the same brother insisted again that Piazza required help, he was told others were biology and kinesiology majors so his opinion wasn't as valuable as theirs, the jury said."
Criminally responsible and grossly negligent in their actions. College aged kids who are trying to fit in will do many things to "impress" their peer. Have a couple of drinks and the inhibitions greatly diminish. Inhibitions diminish, drinking increases, and death occurred because of it. He didn't have a gun to his head. But peer pressure and the reckless acts of the brothers he was trying to impress killed him. The part of your response saying they should not be criminally charged is inane.
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This is literally one of the dumbest posts ever written on these boards. Congratulations.
I really wanted to call him out the way you just did and didn't...but maybe I should have. Thank you.
It is a lot more than that. They actually prevented help from being summoned to protect themselves and their organization. This is not an instance of "ruining more lives." It is actually saving lives by sending a strong message that this type of behavior is completely unacceptable.
When someone is in the type of obvious trouble that the deceased was, they need immediate medical attention. It is as simple as that.
I think this happened at other fraternities, I believe there was an Asian fraternity, and some individuals were convicted for some crime.
I was all for having fun and yes even getting somewhat drunk during my college years. But to drink to a point of unconsciousness and death then having young adults do absolutely nothing is shameful. Something had to be done and maybe criminal convictions is the only answer.
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please don't use this as a opportunity to bash penn state ..this stuff happens everywhere at every university in the country
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A prosecutor can't just totally ignore the state criminal laws - and there are criminal laws on the books in Pennsylvania regarding the provision of alcohol to minors - there may be many instances where local authorities do not aggressively seek out the violators of these laws, but when a painfully obvious violation like this, with tragic consequences, is dropped on their desk, they are obligated to deal with it - somebody died - and it was avoidable - and it appears that the frat boys, through their idiocy, may bear a substantial amount of criminal responsibility for this death.
Furthermore, what on earth are you saying about " the girls at TCNJ who had that pancake eating contest" ? ....are you actually referring to :
The New Jersey college student who fatally choked during a pancake-eating contest - was participating in the charity contest at her school, Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, on March 30. She choked after eating several pancakes and collapsed.
I agree it's not PSU but it doesn't happen everywhere. Individuals need to take responsibility.
If it was just drinking stupidly, that'd be one thing. It happens everywhere all the time.
But to not get the kid medical attention in those circumstances was criminal. The kids should be prosecuted for that.
Part of the problem here is, again, the drinking age. There is no law that is going to prevent college kids from drinking. It's just never going to happen. And laws that cannot be enforced generally have lots of unintended bad consequences to go with any intended good consequences. I think this may be an example.
I'm not going to say that if the drinking age were 16 or 14 that this kid might've drank less. In this particular context, the kids were peer-pressured into behaving stupidly. But if the drinking age were 16, then it seems more likely that his fellow students would've put up less resistance to getting the kid medical help. Because there would be no threat of violating the law, or the school's rules, etc.
I also see a big part of the wrong-headed reaction of those kids that prevented their fellow student from getting medical attention as being due to our society's trend towards insistence on taking away every responsibility or trust of young people today. Not giving young people responsibility and trust results in raising less responsible, less trustworthy young adults.
But to not get the kid medical attention in those circumstances was criminal. The kids should be prosecuted for that.
Part of the problem here is, again, the drinking age. There is no law that is going to prevent college kids from drinking. It's just never going to happen. And laws that cannot be enforced generally have lots of unintended bad consequences to go with any intended good consequences. I think this may be an example.
I'm not going to say that if the drinking age were 16 or 14 that this kid might've drank less. In this particular context, the kids were peer-pressured into behaving stupidly. But if the drinking age were 16, then it seems more likely that his fellow students would've put up less resistance to getting the kid medical help. Because there would be no threat of violating the law, or the school's rules, etc.
I also see a big part of the wrong-headed reaction of those kids that prevented their fellow student from getting medical attention as being due to our society's trend towards insistence on taking away every responsibility or trust of young people today. Not giving young people responsibility and trust results in raising less responsible, less trustworthy young adults.
Every frat in every college across the country serves alcohol to minors. And 18 years old is an adult not a 13 year old kid. You can serve in the military at 18 years old, drive a car and vote. Give me a break peer pressure. So we're not holding him accountable at all? If he drank to the point of death to impress his frat brother's that's on him. They were negligent at best.
The "Let's not ruin more people's lives" argument has been used by judges and lawyers as a way to give privileged kids a slap on the wrist. It is despicable. These kids should pay for what they did and send a message to everyone that these stupid moronic hazing practices are not to be tolerated.
That would be great. But how about when someone gets themselves into trouble, we don't prevent the person/people trying to get that someone help from doing so? Yes, the kid was responsible for himself. But the kids that prevented other kids from being responsible about the overly drunk kid behaved not just irresponsibly, but criminally.
That's great. How about if I see you choking on a hot dog at a game and I stop people from calling for an ambulance. You won't have a problem with dying. It was your fault for biting off more than you can chew.
Tragedy?
Yeah, that sounds like a tragedy to me.
Ya know, no one had even gone down that road, so why did you have to bring it up?
I actually just read the full findings of the Grand Jury and there is some harrowing stuff in there. I agree that this level of drinking goes on at most colleges across the country, but the actions of these specific frat members went beyond what would be considered "normal," in my opinion. 12 hours before doing anything. In fact, one of them, who appeared to be frustrated with the victim because he seemingly wasn't able to just sleep it off, actually hit him in the abdomen out of frustration (where he had a visible injury, later found to be the cause of a series of spleen lacerations causing internal bleeding).
It really looks very very bad and more than just "it happens everywhere."
It really looks very very bad and more than just "it happens everywhere."
Seems like they may have learned from examples set previously.
Football trainer also lived in that frat house, he was not charged. They said he had no knowledge of incident. He was home at that time though.
No one said a disparaging word, yet you felt compelled to police our board. Why? GTFO and look at your own board when something happens at RU. It's a complete cesspool. I suggest you try and clean up your own 1st there Mr. High and Mighty.
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You have no understanding of the law then...a campus fraternity is no military base. They broke the law and are responsible for breaking it. Some of it is on Piazza, I get it. But you don't seem to have a grasp of what societal pressures can do to a person, especially a kid trying to make an impression. Ever drink a beer or take a shot because someone pressured you? Probably, and we all have. Peer pressure is real and affects kids..and adults too. Throw in alcohol and judgements become impaired. This kid was pressured to do it..he wasn't encouraged to have a couple of beers and hang out with the brothers..read the article and see what they were pretty much made to drink..what was a fun night, turned into a tragic one. Not withstanding, because of the brothers at this fraternity, there is a dead 19 year old.
Not needed, we just have to look at who just got elected into your BOT
Wow... I have to say.. if its just a bunch of frat guys binge drinking and something bad happened.. the criminal charges seem a bit much... but DAMN.. if what was said in that quote is true.. those guys should be rotting in hell... forget prison.
I get the whole underage drinking thing.. but it happens everywhere.. even HS and junior high if not earlier... by choice. And it would not take much to show that young people seek to test their limits with alcohol.. by CHOICE. And unless this "pressure" thing involves holding a gun to the kids head.. that poor dead kid had a CHOICE as well.
But everything that happened afterward... DAMN... costing a kid his life because you are in CYA mode? Rot in hell you bastards!
The drinking gauntlet and things like it have happened forever in many frats, clubs, etc. and as stupid as they appear after an incident, they never start out being something that anyone thinks will end up badly. However, not having the common sense to get somebody help when he obviously needs it is criminal in my mind.
Lol. This guys main concern is people bashing penn state.
There is a code to binge drinking. When one of your buddies is in such bad shape that he is in danger, you get help. Obviously it's not always black and white, but in this case it seemed pretty obvious ...
The problem there is that if everyone is binge drinking.. who is sober and responsible enough to know the right thing to do?
But even there.. you had someone (allegedly.. unless the video shows this story is true) trying to convince everyone that the boy needed medical attention.. and the insane, dunk and/or evil selfish bastards won the argument.
Damn shame the kid that recognized medical attention was needed did not go his own way and call an ambulance. He will probably suffer and be haunted with that indecision the rest of his life while the bastards will forget about it and think only about how they suffered through arrest, prosecution and perhaps, prison.
I won't get into details.. but I went through a pledge drinking event and kept to my then self-imposed limit of 2 beers and a shot. I was mocked and laughed at.. but when the peer pressure guys see it is a lost cause and that you don't care... they move on. By the end of the night I was able to hold another pledge's head out of the toilet while he vomited. I was quite happy I was relatively sober. But how was I to know if that other guy had had so much that he really needed medical attention?
And I wonder.. if I had felt "forced".. or was "compelled" to drink.. would I have walked out right there? I don't know.. probably. I liked the house. I liked most of the guys. I loved the parties. But, really.. when you feel forced to do something you dangerous.. something you don't want to do?... that ends it.
But here's the weird thing.. just a year or two later.. I was more inclined to drink more.. to "binge".. by CHOICE.. had I pledged with that mindset... who knows? Little experience with drinking and getting drunk.. feelings of invulnerability of youth.. I could easily have been one of those guys who drank beyond his ability to judge when to quit... hell.. I did that a few times by choice just a few years later.. no peer pressure needed. And it was my fault every time it happened.
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Did you read the grand jury summary? This is not simply a case of drinking to much. It was hazing and pure negligence. Taking snap chat videos while he lays there dieing? Having a trained medical professional in the house yet not bothering to get him. Hopefully what comes out of this is the Greek community wakes up and take responsibility for their actions. They realize that their antics could have serious repercussions.
Negligent as in criminally negligent.
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