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A balanced OTB article, (IMO), about the team/Indiana game...

D

devoted2ru

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Nov 27, 2006
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I think this is a fair assessment of where things stand right now with RU football, (both positive and negative), after the IU game. -I should add a caveat, though, that it might be too objective, employ too much reflective/reasoned thought, and be too even keeled to suit the tastes of some...so you've been given advance notice.
https://www.onthebanks.com/2017/11/...e-time-chris-ash-gio-rescigno-johnathan-lewis
https://www.onthebanks.com/2017/11/...e-time-chris-ash-gio-rescigno-johnathan-lewis
 
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I think that was a great piece. I agree with Aaron's assessment 100%. There's a lot of talk of this game and EMU as the missed chances. Personally, I include Nebraska as well. I think had Gio played instead of Bolin, we may have won that game as well. We were in it till the last pick. Win EMU and Nebraska, this team would already be bowl eligible. Who wouldn't have signed up for the season we have had so far if offered this last January, or this August even?
Hopefully this week Lewis gets a lot of reps in practice and a lot of playing time. The final week should be all about developing the young guys on the team, from him on down.
 
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Wonderful piece and a compendium of the observations of the
reasonable voices on this board.
 
Aaron nails it - all of it - feel like I would have written pretty much the same exact words throughout. Well done!
 
I don't see the value of giving Lewis the start on Saturday. Minimal extra experience, especially since he'll either hand off or run himself 75% of the time.

Unfortunately, Gio gives us the best chance to be competitive...a small chance but still the best chance.
 
It's a good article in some ways. But just as the author was wrong about starting Lewis earlier in the season, I think he's wrong now. We need to do our best to win this game. At this point, I think Gio still gives us the best chance to do that, especially if the O line can do a better job against MSU.

However, I'd have Lewis ready to go and if Gio misses on a couple easy throws early in the game, I'd be relatively quick to make the switch.
 
Disagree wholeheartedly. While I'm fine with Gio in there - and will be cheering my ass of for him - you get Lewis the experience of a full game tomorrow AND let him throw while doing so. If he makes some really bad mistakes, better this week than opening day next year, IMHO. Let it all out!

...and if you start Gio, how about some play-action? Just a little, please!
 
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mildone said:
It's a good article in some ways. But just as the author was wrong about starting Lewis earlier in the season, I think he's wrong now. We need to do our best to win this game. At this point, I think Gio still gives us the best chance to do that, especially if the O line can do a better job against MSU.

However, I'd have Lewis ready to go and if Gio misses on a couple easy throws early in the game, I'd be relatively quick to make the switch.
Click to expand...

Agree. I don’t think Gio is the answer but right now he does give us a better chance to win than Lewis. But, if Lewis plays, I hope he lights it up (of course).
 
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I also agree Lewis is the way to go.. Gio just doesn't run often enough on designed QB runs to make a difference. I do not know if Lewis will be quick enough in the read-option part of things.. but that is something that will get better with reps at game speed. So lets give it a look..
 
OP, thanks for posting that excellent article. But like some others, I think Gio should start. I don't want us to end the season with three consecutive losses and Gio, with all of his flaws, gives us the best chance to win out of all our QBs. Lewis hasn't shown me enough to think he would be effective for 60 minutes. I hope, though, that Lewis gets lots of reps this week so that he can play if the game falls out of reach.
 
Very good article. I think Ash has reached the ceiling this season with this roster. Four wins and progress seen on the D. My concern with Ash is while he’s got things pointed in the right direction, I don’t know whether anyone will have the patience to let him see things through. I see the D making a (smaller) incremental improvement for 2018. I still think Okruch is a clown and has done nothing on ST other than luck out finding a phenom punter in Anderson. But he’ll be gone and unless Okruch can bottle lightning, we’ll see ST problems return next year. On O - I predict we’ll make some huge incremental increases if we can maintain consistence. I could easily see us being a top 100 offense in 2018. But will that get us to 6 wins and a bowl? Possible, but odds are going to be stacked against Ash.
 
No need to start Lewis and dis Gio. Start Gio as he is our best chance to win. After a quarter or two if things look bleak then bring in Lewis for the rest of the way.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
Disagree wholeheartedly. While I'm fine with Gio in there - and will be cheering my ass of for him - you get Lewis the experience of a full game tomorrow AND let him throw while doing so. If he makes some really bad mistakes, better this week than opening day next year, IMHO. Let it all out!

...and if you start Gio, how about some play-action? Just a little, please!
Click to expand...

Anyone who is fine with Gio in there is setting the sights for RU FB way too low IMO.

Biggest needs on this team IMO are QB, OL and WR. Probably throw in ST as well. Ash has lots of holes to fill. Hope that we pull together for Senior Day for the kids who worked hard the past 5 years under difficult conditions.

Ash gave them great credit to the RU Seniors during his presser for MSU this week. Kudos to Ash for his support of our seniors who bought into his approach for RU FB.
 
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AreYouNUTS said:
Disagree wholeheartedly. While I'm fine with Gio in there - and will be cheering my ass of for him - you get Lewis the experience of a full game tomorrow AND let him throw while doing so. If he makes some really bad mistakes, better this week than opening day next year, IMHO. Let it all out!

...and if you start Gio, how about some play-action? Just a little, please!
Click to expand...

Thats apperently crazy talk.

I've been told, sometimes repeatedly:

1. If Lewis makes mistakes as a true freshman in a meaningless game it will destroy his confidence for next season.

2. We NEED to win this game at all costs. Nobody has given a reason why exactly - especially now that a bowl invite is guaranteed to not occur.

3. Getting Lewis an additional 15-20 pass attempts over a season won't make a difference in his development. Apperently QBs just show up at Rutgers able to pass or not pass. They dont get better with more reps.

I think that's it.

It's like people are incapable of considering the long term growth od the team beyond this week's game.
 
NickRU714 said:
2. We NEED to win this game at all costs. Nobody has given a reason why exactly - especially now that a bowl invite is guaranteed to not occur.
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Nobody needs to win any football game. It's as silly as saying we NEED to start Lewis in this game. Pure hyperbole in both cases.

But are you saying winning the game would be completely meaningless to our program? Seems to me, you're either smart enough to figure out for yourself why winning another game this season is important to our program, or you're not going to understand any reason anybody spoon-feeds you.

If you think an additional win is less important than extra game reps for younger players that might not even start next season, then just say so. People will disagree with you. Welcome to the internet.
 
RUfubar said:
Very very very very nicely articulated balanced article......
Click to expand...
As fellow very-chainer, I was sitting here pondering the aggregation characteristics of verys. When we chain very together, as we sometimes do, does it aggregate linearly? Do four verys mean four times as nicely articulated? Is it exponential? Which would indicate an almost unimaginably nice articulation I would think. Or perhaps there's some other property of chained verys that leads to the final result.

Hm... This is going to nag at me all day now.
 
mildone said:
As fellow very-chainer, I was sitting here pondering the aggregation characteristics of verys. When we chain very together, as we sometimes do, does it aggregate linearly? Do four verys mean four times as nicely articulated? Is it exponential? Which would indicate an almost unimaginably nice articulation I would think. Or perhaps there's some other property of chained verys that leads to the final result.

Hm... This is going to nag at me all day now.
Click to expand...



I sometimes, often, quite frequently do this..I can't help it...I'm on the spectrum
 
mildone said:
Nobody needs to win any football game. It's as silly as saying we NEED to start Lewis in this game. Pure hyperbole in both cases.

But are you saying winning the game would be completely meaningless to our program? Seems to me, you're either smart enough to figure out for yourself why winning another game this season is important to our program, or you're not going to understand any reason anybody spoon-feeds you.

If you think an additional win is less important than extra game reps for younger players that might not even start next season, then just say so. People will disagree with you. Welcome to the internet.
Click to expand...

"We need to do our best to win this game."

Does that mean play Bolin if we get down early and need to pass?

I would absolutely focus more on developing players who will be here next year and the years after. Honestly, I would have considered not even playing Bolin from the start.

If this was such a rebuild after Flood, why would we weigh short term gains instead of long term.

Ash shouuld have been given at minimum 3 years to get the team and culture he wanted.

We weren't winning the Big Ten last year, this year or next year.

If you believe beating MSU this week helps us compete for the division in the future, instead of developing players who might be around then, so be it. I disagree. I felt all season we should have been playing for development instead if wind.

Ironically, everyone calls me impatient when everyone else keeps saying "no we need to win now, we need an offense to win now".
 
RUSK97 said:
Very good article. I think Ash has reached the ceiling this season with this roster. Four wins and progress seen on the D. My concern with Ash is while he’s got things pointed in the right direction, I don’t know whether anyone will have the patience to let him see things through. I see the D making a (smaller) incremental improvement for 2018. I still think Okruch is a clown and has done nothing on ST other than luck out finding a phenom punter in Anderson. But he’ll be gone and unless Okruch can bottle lightning, we’ll see ST problems return next year. On O - I predict we’ll make some huge incremental increases if we can maintain consistence. I could easily see us being a top 100 offense in 2018. But will that get us to 6 wins and a bowl? Possible, but odds are going to be stacked against Ash.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Off the top of my head outside of two plays - the punt return for TD against Washington & that punt return against Nebraska, the special teams have improved drastically (and every team allows a big play or two on special teams). Okruch isn't going anywhere. Rutgers has the best kickoff coverage in the B1G. The best punt coverage in the B1G. Middle of the pack on punt returns, and near the back on kickoff returns. http://www.bigten.org/library/stats/fb-confldrs.html
 
G-Bake said:
Seriously? Off the top of my head outside of two plays - the punt return for TD against Washington & that punt return against Nebraska, the special teams have improved drastically (and every team allows a big play or two on special teams). Okruch isn't going anywhere. Rutgers has the best kickoff coverage in the B1G. The best punt coverage in the B1G. Middle of the pack on punt returns, and near the back on kickoff returns. http://www.bigten.org/library/stats/fb-confldrs.html
Click to expand...

Excellent post and mark my word:

We start blocking kicks again next year. You can see it coming, this year, we’ve missed maybe 10 blocks by about a hand. As we get more athletic it’s going to ramp up!
 
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RUfubar said:
I sometimes, often, quite frequently do this..I can't help it...I'm on the spectrum
Click to expand...
I actually do it a lot when writing, but most of the time, before I hit send, I go back and cut them back to one, along with other similar edits. It's not a big deal. Was just having fun with it.
 
I still have no clue what Okurch is doing on the punt return squad.

They don't send the house, nor do they block to set up the return.

Then you have Hayek who isn't sure handed back there.

If you are going to fair catch it everytime, then send the house and make an attempt to legitimately block the punt.
 
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NickRU714 said:
"We need to do our best to win this game."

Does that mean play Bolin if we get down early and need to pass?

I would absolutely focus more on developing players who will be here next year and the years after. Honestly, I would have considered not even playing Bolin from the start.

If this was such a rebuild after Flood, why would we weigh short term gains instead of long term.

Ash shouuld have been given at minimum 3 years to get the team and culture he wanted.

We weren't winning the Big Ten last year, this year or next year.

If you believe beating MSU this week helps us compete for the division in the future, instead of developing players who might be around then, so be it. I disagree. I felt all season we should have been playing for development instead if wind.

Ironically, everyone calls me impatient when everyone else keeps saying "no we need to win now, we need an offense to win now".
Click to expand...
Ash needs to recruit. In terms of the future, there's nothing more important than recruiting. The more games we win, the more it helps with recruiting.

Get it now?
 
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Scarlet_Monster said:
I still have no clue what Okurch is doing on the punt return squad.

They don't send the house, nor do they block to set up the return.

Then you have Hayek who isn't sure handed back there.

If you are going to fair catch it everytime, then send the house and make an attempt to legitimately block the punt.
Click to expand...

This I agree with BUT hope it’s a matter of having the right guys (see: type of athletes) out there. I don’t think Hayek is the answer catching the ball but I do think we see a shift one way or the other next season. Hopefully to blocking again!!
 
AreYouNUTS said:
This I agree with BUT hope it’s a matter of having the right guys (see: type of athletes) out there. I don’t think Hayek is the answer catching the ball but I do think we see a shift one way or the other next season. Hopefully to blocking again!!
Click to expand...

I don't get why they don't put Harris back there to faircatch punts.

I know baseball to football isn't a one to one relation, but he plays CF for a B10 Baseball Team, you have to be pretty good at reading a ball falling out of the sky to play CF. He most likely would've done a better job judging the ball in the wind last week than Hayek could've.
 
Personally feel that the program gets a lot more out of RU losing to MSU by 20 pts with Lewis starting and throwing for 200yds and running for 40-50 yds than losing by 10 pts with Gio starting and running for 30 yds and throwing for 75 yds. Love the moxy and effort by Gio and yes we win one or possibly two more games with him playing over Bolin this season but he is not the future of the program. Gio’s arm and decision making along with Kill’s conservative decision making does not scare defenses and results in a hard to watch offense that gives our defense no time to rest with three and out series. Let’s give Lewis an entire game and see what we have going into next season.

GO RU
 
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mildone said:
Ash needs to recruit. In terms of the future, there's nothing more important than recruiting. The more games we win, the more it helps with recruiting.

Get it now?
Click to expand...

Yes I get it.
Recruiting is based mostly on wins and losses. (Side question - what exactly do coaches do then? And why all the haste over finding a coach who can recruit?)

And how are we getting those wins next year?

Let's look at Raheem Blackshear. Coaches and fans have agreed he is an amazing but young talent.

Last two games - 5 carries total
Edwards and Martin last two games - 38 carries total

Obviously Edwards and Martin give us a better chance to win Saturday.

But maybe, just maybe, give Blackshear a couple more reps and maybe it is more likely he can contribute quicker next year.

He's already burned his RS this year. Why not develop him as much as possible since he will be a key player next year?
 
Aaron always writes very good articles. Resigno might give us our best chance on Saturday but I hope that Lewis does play a substantial amount. Somehow I think this game might be competitive. I sure hope our guys will show up on senior day and help us get rid of the stinking feeling from last weekend.
 
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Still think that Bolin gives us the best chance to pass the ball. It’s Senior Day. Play him.
 
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NickRU714 said:
Yes I get it.
Recruiting is based mostly on wins and losses. (Side question - what exactly do coaches do then? And why all the haste over finding a coach who can recruit?)

And how are we getting those wins next year?

Let's look at Raheem Blackshear. Coaches and fans have agreed he is an amazing but young talent.

Last two games - 5 carries total
Edwards and Martin last two games - 38 carries total

Obviously Edwards and Martin give us a better chance to win Saturday.

But maybe, just maybe, give Blackshear a couple more reps and maybe it is more likely he can contribute quicker next year.

He's already burned his RS this year. Why not develop him as much as possible since he will be a key player next year?
Click to expand...
Coaches make decisions during the game based on a lot of different factors. But, until such time as a game is settled (i.e. the score differential is large enough), the highest priority factor will always be, for all coaches that want to keep their jobs, doing whatever it takes to win the game. Always.

Nobody knows what's going to happen next year. We don't know who might transfer out, who might get injured, etc. We don't know who might lose their starting spot to a transfer coming in, or to a true freshman.

So what you want to do is sacrifice a potential win against a high quality opponent, something that will look really good to any potential recruit, in order to develop a player that might not even play a single down for us next season.

Still think it's a good idea?
 
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mildone said:
Coaches make decisions during the game based on a lot of different factors. But, until such time as a game is settled (i.e. the score differential is large enough), the highest priority factor will always be, for all coaches that want to keep their jobs, doing whatever it takes to win the game. Always.

Nobody knows what's going to happen next year. We don't know who might transfer out, who might get injured, etc. We don't know who might lose their starting spot to a transfer coming in, or to a true freshman.

So what you want to do is sacrifice a potential win against a high quality opponent, something that will look really good to any potential recruit, in order to develop a player that might not even play a single down for us next season.

Still think it's a good idea?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Thought the same thing before the OSU, UM (I even wrote a long post on different measures of success than just winning) and the OSU game.

I would counter - so you want to sacrifice the ability to develop and get reps for a player who could potentially help us next year for a low-probability win that might look good to some nameless recruits who may or may not even commit to Rutgers, let alone even sign to Rutgers, let alone even make to campus (and then all the rest about transferring/injury etc.)

I would say odds are that the young players currently on the team are more likely to contribute to wins in the future than an uncommitted (or even committed) recruit.

And those wins from these developed young players will make recruiting easier in the future.

Hey look, full circle and I think we agree now. Haha
 
"You can't grow long-term if you can't eat short-term. Anybody can manage short. Anybody can manage long. Balancing those two things is what management is" - Jack Welch

The same goes for coaching. Ash has a tough call to make.
 
Pils86 said:
No need to start Lewis and dis Gio. Start Gio as he is our best chance to win. After a quarter or two if things look bleak then bring in Lewis for the rest of the way.
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Makes sense to me. His playing time in this game will have minimal influence on next year.
 
What do people think Gio does better than Lewis that warrants keeping him as a starter on Saturday? He doesn't run or pass better. So MAYBE Lewis ends the game with an extra turn over... i can live with the trade off in experience garnered. Nobody wants to hear this but we are not winning this game with either at QB... this year. I was all for Gio replacing Bolin. Im all for Lewis replacing Gio. Why? Because when a player can't get it done you keep looking till you find one. Period. At the end of the day you need to know what you have and what you don't have when its for real on Saturdays against someone other than cupcake. With that said, I have no problem with starting Gio for a drive or two to go three and out but Lewis needs to take the reins for the following 3 quarters if (when) that happens.
 
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Phi_1055 said:
"You can't grow long-term if you can't eat short-term. Anybody can manage short. Anybody can manage long. Balancing those two things is what management is" - Jack Welch

The same goes for coaching. Ash has a tough call to make.
Click to expand...
I think the toughness of the decision will be solely about who most helps the team potentially win. That might be Lewis, at this point, given Gio's very poor passing performance in the last game.

OTOH, Gio doesn't tend to throw INTs, Lewis seems likely to do so. And we can't survive a bunch of turnovers and have any hope to win this game.

Based on what I've seen, which, like every other fan, is admittedly not very much since we don't see what takes place in practice, I would start Gio and it wouldn't be a tough decision. Because he is capable of throwing on target and has made some critical runs in critical situations, and he doesn't throw INTs much at all.

But I'd have him on a short leash. Any sign that he's as off-target as he was last game, and I'd make the switch and hope Lewis doesn't throw INTs.

But again, the staff sees a ton that we're not privy to. Maybe Lewis still struggles with pre-snap reads. Maybe Lewis has been throwing fewer INTs in practice lately.
 
mildone said:
As fellow very-chainer, I was sitting here pondering the aggregation characteristics of verys. When we chain very together, as we sometimes do, does it aggregate linearly? Do four verys mean four times as nicely articulated? Is it exponential? Which would indicate an almost unimaginably nice articulation I would think. Or perhaps there's some other property of chained verys that leads to the final result.

Hm... This is going to nag at me all day now.
Click to expand...
I think there is a law of diminishing returns on chained verys.. it is far from geometric or exponential.. it is something less than linear.
 
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What MSU game outcome makes you more optimistic about next season:

RU 10-7 win with Gio at the helm or

RU 30-25 loss with Lewis

I would argue a stud wr gets more excited about a strong arm qb that can stretch the defense with arm and legs.

This is all about winning but I rather win the long game versus the short game.

GO RU
 
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