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A realistic look at the program

RUMassAlum

Sophomore
Jun 7, 2005
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First, I do acknowledge issues expressed in a recent post, concerning, among other things, the impacts from the largely negative posting on this and other message boards regarding RU football. I think that players, recruits and parents likely do read the boards and will always do so. Particularly, IMO, posters should avoid negative remarks about individual present players; that’s demoralizing. Cite unit failure, cite coaching deficiencies, but avoid individual names. I also agree that negative posts can scare away recruits. Nevertheless, the team is awful, and we do live in the cyber/social media age, and frustrated fans probably have a strong need to use these boards or go mildly insane.

Now, on to my main points. I am trying to put the present dilemma of the program into some kind of context, to realistically evaluate future prospects. Inevitably, I go back to the transition years from Terry Shea to the Greg Schiano era. The Big East then was a more than respectable football conference, with the likes of Miami, Va. Tech and W. Virginia (all national powers), plus strong teams at BC and Pitt, having been added in the early 1990’s. In 1999, Shea lost to W. Virg. 16-62, Temple 28-56, Navy 7-34, and Miami, 0-56. In 2000, RU lost to Va Tech 0-49, Miami 6-64, Temple, 14-48, BC 13-42, Notre Dame 17-45 and Syracuse 21-49. Then, in 2001, when Schiano came, RU lost to Miami 0-61, Va Tech 0-50, Temple 5-30, W. Virg 7-80 (that legendary massacre), Pitt 0-42 and BC 7-38. In 2002, RU was clobbered by W. Virg. 0-40, Notre Dame 0-42 and BC 14-44. In 2003, RU lost to Mich St. 28-44 and Va Tech 22-48, but slowly improved to 5 and 7 overall and gained two conference victories. In 2004, the team upset Mich St. but also (notoriously) was defeated by New Hampshire, and the overall record regressed to 4-7, but the margin of defeat narrowed considerably in every game, and the team again notched a couple of BE wins. In 2005, the team attained a winning record, respectability and a string of 5 straight bowl appearances and was off and running, but it had been a gradual process over the course of 4 years.

Now, on to the present dilemma. Unfortunately, after following this team closely and unwaveringly for 49 years, I must conclude that although the Shea-to-Schiano transition years were the second lowest time in RU football history, the present mess is considerably worse. Why? First, as decent as the Big East was then, it was nothing close to the B1G, but even more significantly, to the very tough B1G East division. Just look at that murderer’s row in our schedule. Brutal.

Second, we are regressing dramatically. Schiano inched us toward respectability, although admittedly it took a long time. Under Chris Ash, the third season is turning into an unmitigated disaster, IMHO a probable 1-11 season. Third, the team is in worsening turmoil. The QB situation is a mess, with Sitkowski (sorry, no way to avoid using his name) probably less than 100% physically and seeming to lose confidence each game. We have no passing attack, not much of running game, no strength on the O-line. But even more concerning, the defense is decimated with injuries and loss of personnel due to the credit card scandal, particularly in the defensive backfield. What could have been the team’s strength is now a total liability. Fourth, the coaches do not seem to be able to adjust and improve things during the games.

The reality is that the football program does not belong in the B1G. We would not be competitive in most mid-major conferences. Basketball is inching toward a degree of success under Pikiell and company, although I don’t think that will be seen in the coming season, with so many personnel losses and newcomers on the team. Woman’s BB is starting to improve, and we are respectable in most of the so-called olympic and minor sports, with some exceptions. But football is an embarrassment. So what happens with Coach Ash? Those who call for his dismissal in-season are totally wrong. That would be adding nitroglycerine to the conflagration. Does he get canned right after the season? Maybe, maybe not. There is just no money available to attract a strong coach, and what established coach and proven recruiter would come here in the first place and put his career and reputation at risk? It is also not constructive to target Pres. Barchi as the principal barrier to getting a good coach. Yes, a WINNING program, eventually, over a period of years, can attract students, increase resources for the sports program and produce economic benefits. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He is running a huge, complex and renowned academic institution, not a semi-pro football team. It’s likely up to well-heeled alumni to pony up the money, but with a dreadful record, there aren’t many lined up to do that. Roy Hobbes is also not the scapegoat here; he didn’t have a lot of choice but to extend Ash, and he has produced small miracles with new sports facilities.

The reality is that in the context of current circumstances and residing in the B1G East, the football program has hit historic rock bottom and there is no quick and easy way out. I do not know the nature of our athletic agreement with the B1G, but I do remember when Temple was expelled from the Big East in 2004, principally due to poor attendance. RU’s attendance has been dwindling and I believe it’s at the bottom of the conference. In any event, if we go 1-11, which seems likely, there will be pressure to fire the coach and his staff. Either way, if we dismiss OR retain him, fans are in for a very long and embarrassing period in the football program. I’d love for Greg to return, but that’s fantasy in my opinion. He’s not coming back to renew his vows here. People throw out various coaching names, but mostly, that’s wishful thinking; getting them to come here is quite another matter. So, I am sorry to sound so bleak, but that’s the reality of it. After 49 years of perspective, I cannot come to a more optimistic conclusion. Almost makes me long for the old Colonial/Ivy/Patriot league schedule. At least that was fun.
 
Roy Hobbes is also not the scapegoat here; he didn’t have a lot of choice but to extend Ash, and he has produced small miracles with new sports facilities.
The extension isn't the issue: you want that for recruiting purposes if for nothing else. It's the $9 million buyout after this season which is just insane.
 
But I thought Hobbs was a Natural at this!

I get it. :D

s-l300.jpg
 
First, I do acknowledge issues expressed in a recent post, concerning, among other things, the impacts from the largely negative posting on this and other message boards regarding RU football. I think that players, recruits and parents likely do read the boards and will always do so. Particularly, IMO, posters should avoid negative remarks about individual present players; that’s demoralizing. Cite unit failure, cite coaching deficiencies, but avoid individual names. I also agree that negative posts can scare away recruits. Nevertheless, the team is awful, and we do live in the cyber/social media age, and frustrated fans probably have a strong need to use these boards or go mildly insane.

Now, on to my main points. I am trying to put the present dilemma of the program into some kind of context, to realistically evaluate future prospects. Inevitably, I go back to the transition years from Terry Shea to the Greg Schiano era. The Big East then was a more than respectable football conference, with the likes of Miami, Va. Tech and W. Virginia (all national powers), plus strong teams at BC and Pitt, having been added in the early 1990’s. In 1999, Shea lost to W. Virg. 16-62, Temple 28-56, Navy 7-34, and Miami, 0-56. In 2000, RU lost to Va Tech 0-49, Miami 6-64, Temple, 14-48, BC 13-42, Notre Dame 17-45 and Syracuse 21-49. Then, in 2001, when Schiano came, RU lost to Miami 0-61, Va Tech 0-50, Temple 5-30, W. Virg 7-80 (that legendary massacre), Pitt 0-42 and BC 7-38. In 2002, RU was clobbered by W. Virg. 0-40, Notre Dame 0-42 and BC 14-44. In 2003, RU lost to Mich St. 28-44 and Va Tech 22-48, but slowly improved to 5 and 7 overall and gained two conference victories. In 2004, the team upset Mich St. but also (notoriously) was defeated by New Hampshire, and the overall record regressed to 4-7, but the margin of defeat narrowed considerably in every game, and the team again notched a couple of BE wins. In 2005, the team attained a winning record, respectability and a string of 5 straight bowl appearances and was off and running, but it had been a gradual process over the course of 4 years.

Now, on to the present dilemma. Unfortunately, after following this team closely and unwaveringly for 49 years, I must conclude that although the Shea-to-Schiano transition years were the second lowest time in RU football history, the present mess is considerably worse. Why? First, as decent as the Big East was then, it was nothing close to the B1G, but even more significantly, to the very tough B1G East division. Just look at that murderer’s row in our schedule. Brutal.

Second, we are regressing dramatically. Schiano inched us toward respectability, although admittedly it took a long time. Under Chris Ash, the third season is turning into an unmitigated disaster, IMHO a probable 1-11 season. Third, the team is in worsening turmoil. The QB situation is a mess, with Sitkowski (sorry, no way to avoid using his name) probably less than 100% physically and seeming to lose confidence each game. We have no passing attack, not much of running game, no strength on the O-line. But even more concerning, the defense is decimated with injuries and loss of personnel due to the credit card scandal, particularly in the defensive backfield. What could have been the team’s strength is now a total liability. Fourth, the coaches do not seem to be able to adjust and improve things during the games.

The reality is that the football program does not belong in the B1G. We would not be competitive in most mid-major conferences. Basketball is inching toward a degree of success under Pikiell and company, although I don’t think that will be seen in the coming season, with so many personnel losses and newcomers on the team. Woman’s BB is starting to improve, and we are respectable in most of the so-called olympic and minor sports, with some exceptions. But football is an embarrassment. So what happens with Coach Ash? Those who call for his dismissal in-season are totally wrong. That would be adding nitroglycerine to the conflagration. Does he get canned right after the season? Maybe, maybe not. There is just no money available to attract a strong coach, and what established coach and proven recruiter would come here in the first place and put his career and reputation at risk? It is also not constructive to target Pres. Barchi as the principal barrier to getting a good coach. Yes, a WINNING program, eventually, over a period of years, can attract students, increase resources for the sports program and produce economic benefits. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He is running a huge, complex and renowned academic institution, not a semi-pro football team. It’s likely up to well-heeled alumni to pony up the money, but with a dreadful record, there aren’t many lined up to do that. Roy Hobbes is also not the scapegoat here; he didn’t have a lot of choice but to extend Ash, and he has produced small miracles with new sports facilities.

The reality is that in the context of current circumstances and residing in the B1G East, the football program has hit historic rock bottom and there is no quick and easy way out. I do not know the nature of our athletic agreement with the B1G, but I do remember when Temple was expelled from the Big East in 2004, principally due to poor attendance. RU’s attendance has been dwindling and I believe it’s at the bottom of the conference. In any event, if we go 1-11, which seems likely, there will be pressure to fire the coach and his staff. Either way, if we dismiss OR retain him, fans are in for a very long and embarrassing period in the football program. I’d love for Greg to return, but that’s fantasy in my opinion. He’s not coming back to renew his vows here. People throw out various coaching names, but mostly, that’s wishful thinking; getting them to come here is quite another matter. So, I am sorry to sound so bleak, but that’s the reality of it. After 49 years of perspective, I cannot come to a more optimistic conclusion. Almost makes me long for the old Colonial/Ivy/Patriot league schedule. At least that was fun.

Your post is for the most part very well-written, but I have one major quibble.
You are jumping to conclusions based on the Kansas game. Yes, it was a very troubling game to watch from many aspects you discussed. But it is one game.

Can we let the season play out a few more game before issuing such proclamations of doom and gloom?

And for the record, on attendance:

Among Big Ten teams, only Maryland (39,643), Illinois (39,429) and Northwestern (35,853) drew lower attendance figures than Rutgers this fall.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...rutgers_rank_in_attendance_nationally_an.html
 
First, I do acknowledge issues expressed in a recent post, concerning, among other things, the impacts from the largely negative posting on this and other message boards regarding RU football. I think that players, recruits and parents likely do read the boards and will always do so. Particularly, IMO, posters should avoid negative remarks about individual present players; that’s demoralizing. Cite unit failure, cite coaching deficiencies, but avoid individual names. I also agree that negative posts can scare away recruits. Nevertheless, the team is awful, and we do live in the cyber/social media age, and frustrated fans probably have a strong need to use these boards or go mildly insane.

Now, on to my main points. I am trying to put the present dilemma of the program into some kind of context, to realistically evaluate future prospects. Inevitably, I go back to the transition years from Terry Shea to the Greg Schiano era. The Big East then was a more than respectable football conference, with the likes of Miami, Va. Tech and W. Virginia (all national powers), plus strong teams at BC and Pitt, having been added in the early 1990’s. In 1999, Shea lost to W. Virg. 16-62, Temple 28-56, Navy 7-34, and Miami, 0-56. In 2000, RU lost to Va Tech 0-49, Miami 6-64, Temple, 14-48, BC 13-42, Notre Dame 17-45 and Syracuse 21-49. Then, in 2001, when Schiano came, RU lost to Miami 0-61, Va Tech 0-50, Temple 5-30, W. Virg 7-80 (that legendary massacre), Pitt 0-42 and BC 7-38. In 2002, RU was clobbered by W. Virg. 0-40, Notre Dame 0-42 and BC 14-44. In 2003, RU lost to Mich St. 28-44 and Va Tech 22-48, but slowly improved to 5 and 7 overall and gained two conference victories. In 2004, the team upset Mich St. but also (notoriously) was defeated by New Hampshire, and the overall record regressed to 4-7, but the margin of defeat narrowed considerably in every game, and the team again notched a couple of BE wins. In 2005, the team attained a winning record, respectability and a string of 5 straight bowl appearances and was off and running, but it had been a gradual process over the course of 4 years.

Now, on to the present dilemma. Unfortunately, after following this team closely and unwaveringly for 49 years, I must conclude that although the Shea-to-Schiano transition years were the second lowest time in RU football history, the present mess is considerably worse. Why? First, as decent as the Big East was then, it was nothing close to the B1G, but even more significantly, to the very tough B1G East division. Just look at that murderer’s row in our schedule. Brutal.

Second, we are regressing dramatically. Schiano inched us toward respectability, although admittedly it took a long time. Under Chris Ash, the third season is turning into an unmitigated disaster, IMHO a probable 1-11 season. Third, the team is in worsening turmoil. The QB situation is a mess, with Sitkowski (sorry, no way to avoid using his name) probably less than 100% physically and seeming to lose confidence each game. We have no passing attack, not much of running game, no strength on the O-line. But even more concerning, the defense is decimated with injuries and loss of personnel due to the credit card scandal, particularly in the defensive backfield. What could have been the team’s strength is now a total liability. Fourth, the coaches do not seem to be able to adjust and improve things during the games.

The reality is that the football program does not belong in the B1G. We would not be competitive in most mid-major conferences. Basketball is inching toward a degree of success under Pikiell and company, although I don’t think that will be seen in the coming season, with so many personnel losses and newcomers on the team. Woman’s BB is starting to improve, and we are respectable in most of the so-called olympic and minor sports, with some exceptions. But football is an embarrassment. So what happens with Coach Ash? Those who call for his dismissal in-season are totally wrong. That would be adding nitroglycerine to the conflagration. Does he get canned right after the season? Maybe, maybe not. There is just no money available to attract a strong coach, and what established coach and proven recruiter would come here in the first place and put his career and reputation at risk? It is also not constructive to target Pres. Barchi as the principal barrier to getting a good coach. Yes, a WINNING program, eventually, over a period of years, can attract students, increase resources for the sports program and produce economic benefits. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He is running a huge, complex and renowned academic institution, not a semi-pro football team. It’s likely up to well-heeled alumni to pony up the money, but with a dreadful record, there aren’t many lined up to do that. Roy Hobbes is also not the scapegoat here; he didn’t have a lot of choice but to extend Ash, and he has produced small miracles with new sports facilities.

The reality is that in the context of current circumstances and residing in the B1G East, the football program has hit historic rock bottom and there is no quick and easy way out. I do not know the nature of our athletic agreement with the B1G, but I do remember when Temple was expelled from the Big East in 2004, principally due to poor attendance. RU’s attendance has been dwindling and I believe it’s at the bottom of the conference. In any event, if we go 1-11, which seems likely, there will be pressure to fire the coach and his staff. Either way, if we dismiss OR retain him, fans are in for a very long and embarrassing period in the football program. I’d love for Greg to return, but that’s fantasy in my opinion. He’s not coming back to renew his vows here. People throw out various coaching names, but mostly, that’s wishful thinking; getting them to come here is quite another matter. So, I am sorry to sound so bleak, but that’s the reality of it. After 49 years of perspective, I cannot come to a more optimistic conclusion. Almost makes me long for the old Colonial/Ivy/Patriot league schedule. At least that was fun.

My favorite part of this post is how you lecture the board on not being negative, and then write a thesis on why we suck. I get it though, I do.

Although all your points are fair, I don't think your presumed conclusion necessarily is. You say we do not belong in the B1G -- I disagree. We've racked up 7 big ten wins in 3 seasons prior to this one. We've beat teams. In fact, we've demolished some teams (Indiana in 2014, for example).

Is this a rough period for football? Oh you betcha. Is there a quick fix? Hell no. But, institutionally, we still belong here.
 
I will say again. It's a business. The fans and the university want different things. See also the Florida Marlins.The fans want a winning program. The university wants max revenue and min expenses.

Why spend 10 million on a coaching staff and be East division bottom 3 if you can spend 4 million and finish in the same place anyway?
 
I remember the Ivy/Patriot/Military/ independent schedule we used to play. It was fun, but not money making. I used to wish we would go Big Time. Lesson learned. Be careful what you wish for.
 
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If the prevailing view that RU won’t fire Ash for another few years is true then I could easily see this snowballing into a situation where we’re drawing in the teens each game. It was the norm under Shea and it can happen again. Like the OP, I have no clue what’s in the agreement with the B1G but wouldn’t be surprised if there is an attendance clause. Of course, many will shout down the notion, but the reality is that we’ve been an unmitigated disaster across most sports.
 
Query on your history. Wasn't 2004 the year that 3 players got severely injured when their car, after a game, got rammed by a drunk driver? I think that factored into the regression.

Speaking as a non-alum, I think RU is too big, even at present has more then the necessary quality of facilities and is located in too deep a recruiting area to settle for a AAC/Patriot/Ivy program. For UConn maybe, but not Rutgers. Competing in what is probably to best division in D1 football makes the challenge very difficult, but over time it can be overcome. Whether Ash is the person to do the job or not can't be determined until at least the end of the season.
 
Kids not committing here because of the negativity on message boards is BS. Blowout losses and losing records are the problem. Nobody wants to be a loser. Until that changes, expect more of the same as far as recruiting goes. How to change it is the $64 Thousand Dollar Question that so many have a different answer for.
 
Only a Rutgers fan would say the team doesnt belong in the Big Ten after being saved by the Big Ten. That's far worse for recruits to see than anything else imo. And it's silly given the payout situation and how much less money we get.
 
Only a Rutgers fan would say the team doesnt belong in the Big Ten after being saved by the Big Ten. That's far worse for recruits to see than anything else imo. And it's silly given the payout situation and how much less money we get.
I hear you!
 
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I agree with the OP, but the Kansas game was so brutal that it sucked any hope I had for this season right the hell out.

That being said, Rutgers does belong in the Big Ten, and there is no other conference I rather us be in.

There is no reason why long term we couldn't get back to winning 6-7 game every year, then 8-9 games every year.

All it takes is the right staff & strong recruiting to make it happen.

We are upgrading our facilitates, things are moving in a extremely positive direction on that front.

Of course, maybe we are all hitting the panic button for no reason and last week was just our annual WTF game (made famous by Schiano) and we will win out until November. Who knows.
 
Query on your history. Wasn't 2004 the year that 3 players got severely injured when their car, after a game, got rammed by a drunk driver? I think that factored into the regression.

Speaking as a non-alum, I think RU is too big, even at present has more then the necessary quality of facilities and is located in too deep a recruiting area to settle for a AAC/Patriot/Ivy program. For UConn maybe, but not Rutgers. Competing in what is probably to best division in D1 football makes the challenge very difficult, but over time it can be overcome. Whether Ash is the person to do the job or not can't be determined until at least the end of the season.
Yes the secondary took a huge hit from a drunk driver.
 
Query on your history. Wasn't 2004 the year that 3 players got severely injured when their car, after a game, got rammed by a drunk driver? I think that factored into the regression.

Yes the secondary took a huge hit from a drunk driver.
Yep, and the timing really accentuates that. We had just beaten Temple to go 4-2 - we weren't world beaters that season, but we weren't horrible. But we lost 3 DB's: Dondre Asberry, Eddie Grimes and Manny Collins. Asberry was in critical condition for a couple of weeks, Schiano spent hours at his bedside. It threw the team for a loop: we ended the season on an 0-5 run to end up 4-7. Without that accident I could see us at 5-6 or even 6-5.
 
I don’t think you guys really understand the ass whopping OSU put on you. To ask a team with depth issues to go thru that and then fly to Lawrence f’ing Kansas in 90 degree weather and play a Big 12 team on the road is a lot. Ohio State threw fourth team guys at you that you couldn’t stop. You basically played 4 big ten teams. In all seriousness, just beat Indiana, Buffalo, Maryland, Illinois, and you’ll improve by one game.
 
If only our lines were as stout as those text-blocks in the OP, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
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I don’t think you guys really understand the ass whopping OSU put on you. To ask a team with depth issues to go thru that and then fly to Lawrence f’ing Kansas in 90 degree weather and play a Big 12 team on the road is a lot. Ohio State threw fourth team guys at you that you couldn’t stop. You basically played 4 big ten teams. In all seriousness, just beat Indiana, Buffalo, Maryland, Illinois, and you’ll improve by one game.

dude you do not belong on this board because you make way too much sense
 
I don’t think you guys really understand the ass whopping OSU put on you. To ask a team with depth issues to go thru that and then fly to Lawrence f’ing Kansas in 90 degree weather and play a Big 12 team on the road is a lot. Ohio State threw fourth team guys at you that you couldn’t stop. You basically played 4 big ten teams. In all seriousness, just beat Indiana, Buffalo, Maryland, Illinois, and you’ll improve by one game.
Sorry, but short of OSU killing off our 1st, 2nd and 3rd string O Line, there was no excuse for the 3 INT's and 2 Pick Sixes thrown which totally shredded our team's motivation.
 
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Yep, and the timing really accentuates that. We had just beaten Temple to go 4-2 - we weren't world beaters that season, but we weren't horrible. But we lost 3 DB's: Dondre Asberry, Eddie Grimes and Manny Collins. Asberry was in critical condition for a couple of weeks, Schiano spent hours at his bedside. It threw the team for a loop: we ended the season on an 0-5 run to end up 4-7. Without that accident I could see us at 5-6 or even 6-5.
You are correct, of course. But look at the depletion of the defensive backfield this season, with injuries and dismissals. even worse.
 
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My favorite part of this post is how you lecture the board on not being negative, and then write a thesis on why we suck. I get it though, I do.

Although all your points are fair, I don't think your presumed conclusion necessarily is. You say we do not belong in the B1G -- I disagree. We've racked up 7 big ten wins in 3 seasons prior to this one. We've beat teams. In fact, we've demolished some teams (Indiana in 2014, for example).

Is this a rough period for football? Oh you betcha. Is there a quick fix? Hell no. But, institutionally, we still belong here.
Your response is fair and OK by me.
 
You are correct, of course. But look at the depletion of the defensive backfield this season, with injuries and dismissals. even worse.
Yes and no. We had Ryan Hart that year (3154 passing yards and 17 TD's), along with Tres Moses, Brian Leonard, Clark Harris, Chris Baker, Marcus Daniels and Willie Foster all with 20 or more receptions. So we had a potent offense. But losing those 3 DB's not only depleted our depth, but cast a real pall over the team that was tough to shake.
 
... In 1999, Shea lost to W. Virg. 16-62, Temple 28-56, Navy 7-34, and Miami, 0-56. In 2000, RU lost to Va Tech 0-49, Miami 6-64, Temple, 14-48, BC 13-42, Notre Dame 17-45 and Syracuse 21-49. Then, in 2001, when Schiano came, RU lost to Miami 0-61, Va Tech 0-50, Temple 5-30, W. Virg 7-80 (that legendary massacre), Pitt 0-42 and BC 7-38. In 2002, RU was clobbered by W. Virg. 0-40, Notre Dame 0-42 and BC 14-44. ...

Damn I forgot how bad we were.
 
Your post is for the most part very well-written, but I have one major quibble.
You are jumping to conclusions based on the Kansas game. Yes, it was a very troubling game to watch from many aspects you discussed. But it is one game.

Can we let the season play out a few more game before issuing such proclamations of doom and gloom?

And for the record, on attendance:

Among Big Ten teams, only Maryland (39,643), Illinois (39,429) and Northwestern (35,853) drew lower attendance figures than Rutgers this fall.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...rutgers_rank_in_attendance_nationally_an.html
Had the same thought. We’re freaking out because that’s what we like to do, but we’re really just 3 games in. In 2008 RU lost 5 out its first 6 beating only Morgan St. they squeaked past uconn thanks to a missed FG and then ripped off 7 straight wins (including a ranked Pitt and N.C. state the bowl game).

Sure there are a dozen other reasons to not feel good about this team right now, but I’m all for letting things play out a bit more before declaring this a total disaster.

Also not saying this team and coaches will all of a sudden click and win out... the schedule is waaaaaay too tough for that. But let’s just see if things turn around at all and head in the right direction.
 
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Had the same thought. We’re freaking out because that’s what we like to do, but we’re really just 3 games in. In 2008 RU lost 5 out its first 6 beating only Morgan St. they squeaked past uconn thanks to a missed FG and then ripped off 7 straight wins (including a ranked Pitt and N.C. state the bowl game).

Sure there are a dozen other reasons to not feel good about this team right now, but I’m all for letting things play out a bit more before declaring this a total disaster.

Also not saying this team and coaches will all of a sudden click and win out... the schedule is waaaaaay too tough for that. But let’s just see if things turn around at all and head in the right direction.
And the OP responded to others, but did not see fit to respond to my post. Maybe he is Smykowski from Office Space.
jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg
 
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Thanks OP for your magnus opus, but I think everything you wrote is well know/old news to everyone on this board and saying we hit rock bottom is no new conclusion. However, I do disagree that a name coach will come here. They all have a price. What you should have said is that we will not pay going rate for a name stud coach.
 
I don’t think you guys really understand the ass whopping OSU put on you. To ask a team with depth issues to go thru that and then fly to Lawrence f’ing Kansas in 90 degree weather and play a Big 12 team on the road is a lot. Ohio State threw fourth team guys at you that you couldn’t stop. You basically played 4 big ten teams. In all seriousness, just beat Indiana, Buffalo, Maryland, Illinois, and you’ll improve by one game.

No we understand the ass whooping OSU put on us - it’s been the same thing for the past 5 yrs.

We won’t win more than one of the four games you mention. 2-10 is the best case scenario IMHO
 
Had the same thought. We’re freaking out because that’s what we like to do, but we’re really just 3 games in. In 2008 RU lost 5 out its first 6 beating only Morgan St. they squeaked past uconn thanks to a missed FG and then ripped off 7 straight wins (including a ranked Pitt and N.C. state the bowl game).

Sure there are a dozen other reasons to not feel good about this team right now, but I’m all for letting things play out a bit more before declaring this a total disaster.

Also not saying this team and coaches will all of a sudden click and win out... the schedule is waaaaaay too tough for that. But let’s just see if things turn around at all and head in the right direction.

It's never as bad as it seems. Or as good.
 
First, I do acknowledge issues expressed in a recent post, concerning, among other things, the impacts from the largely negative posting on this and other message boards regarding RU football. I think that players, recruits and parents likely do read the boards and will always do so. Particularly, IMO, posters should avoid negative remarks about individual present players; that’s demoralizing. Cite unit failure, cite coaching deficiencies, but avoid individual names. I also agree that negative posts can scare away recruits. Nevertheless, the team is awful, and we do live in the cyber/social media age, and frustrated fans probably have a strong need to use these boards or go mildly insane.

Now, on to my main points. I am trying to put the present dilemma of the program into some kind of context, to realistically evaluate future prospects. Inevitably, I go back to the transition years from Terry Shea to the Greg Schiano era. The Big East then was a more than respectable football conference, with the likes of Miami, Va. Tech and W. Virginia (all national powers), plus strong teams at BC and Pitt, having been added in the early 1990’s. In 1999, Shea lost to W. Virg. 16-62, Temple 28-56, Navy 7-34, and Miami, 0-56. In 2000, RU lost to Va Tech 0-49, Miami 6-64, Temple, 14-48, BC 13-42, Notre Dame 17-45 and Syracuse 21-49. Then, in 2001, when Schiano came, RU lost to Miami 0-61, Va Tech 0-50, Temple 5-30, W. Virg 7-80 (that legendary massacre), Pitt 0-42 and BC 7-38. In 2002, RU was clobbered by W. Virg. 0-40, Notre Dame 0-42 and BC 14-44. In 2003, RU lost to Mich St. 28-44 and Va Tech 22-48, but slowly improved to 5 and 7 overall and gained two conference victories. In 2004, the team upset Mich St. but also (notoriously) was defeated by New Hampshire, and the overall record regressed to 4-7, but the margin of defeat narrowed considerably in every game, and the team again notched a couple of BE wins. In 2005, the team attained a winning record, respectability and a string of 5 straight bowl appearances and was off and running, but it had been a gradual process over the course of 4 years.

Now, on to the present dilemma. Unfortunately, after following this team closely and unwaveringly for 49 years, I must conclude that although the Shea-to-Schiano transition years were the second lowest time in RU football history, the present mess is considerably worse. Why? First, as decent as the Big East was then, it was nothing close to the B1G, but even more significantly, to the very tough B1G East division. Just look at that murderer’s row in our schedule. Brutal.

Second, we are regressing dramatically. Schiano inched us toward respectability, although admittedly it took a long time. Under Chris Ash, the third season is turning into an unmitigated disaster, IMHO a probable 1-11 season. Third, the team is in worsening turmoil. The QB situation is a mess, with Sitkowski (sorry, no way to avoid using his name) probably less than 100% physically and seeming to lose confidence each game. We have no passing attack, not much of running game, no strength on the O-line. But even more concerning, the defense is decimated with injuries and loss of personnel due to the credit card scandal, particularly in the defensive backfield. What could have been the team’s strength is now a total liability. Fourth, the coaches do not seem to be able to adjust and improve things during the games.

The reality is that the football program does not belong in the B1G. We would not be competitive in most mid-major conferences. Basketball is inching toward a degree of success under Pikiell and company, although I don’t think that will be seen in the coming season, with so many personnel losses and newcomers on the team. Woman’s BB is starting to improve, and we are respectable in most of the so-called olympic and minor sports, with some exceptions. But football is an embarrassment. So what happens with Coach Ash? Those who call for his dismissal in-season are totally wrong. That would be adding nitroglycerine to the conflagration. Does he get canned right after the season? Maybe, maybe not. There is just no money available to attract a strong coach, and what established coach and proven recruiter would come here in the first place and put his career and reputation at risk? It is also not constructive to target Pres. Barchi as the principal barrier to getting a good coach. Yes, a WINNING program, eventually, over a period of years, can attract students, increase resources for the sports program and produce economic benefits. But that doesn’t happen overnight. He is running a huge, complex and renowned academic institution, not a semi-pro football team. It’s likely up to well-heeled alumni to pony up the money, but with a dreadful record, there aren’t many lined up to do that. Roy Hobbes is also not the scapegoat here; he didn’t have a lot of choice but to extend Ash, and he has produced small miracles with new sports facilities.

The reality is that in the context of current circumstances and residing in the B1G East, the football program has hit historic rock bottom and there is no quick and easy way out. I do not know the nature of our athletic agreement with the B1G, but I do remember when Temple was expelled from the Big East in 2004, principally due to poor attendance. RU’s attendance has been dwindling and I believe it’s at the bottom of the conference. In any event, if we go 1-11, which seems likely, there will be pressure to fire the coach and his staff. Either way, if we dismiss OR retain him, fans are in for a very long and embarrassing period in the football program. I’d love for Greg to return, but that’s fantasy in my opinion. He’s not coming back to renew his vows here. People throw out various coaching names, but mostly, that’s wishful thinking; getting them to come here is quite another matter. So, I am sorry to sound so bleak, but that’s the reality of it. After 49 years of perspective, I cannot come to a more optimistic conclusion. Almost makes me long for the old Colonial/Ivy/Patriot league schedule. At least that was fun.

Insanity is doing he same thing over and over and expecting different results. Until we bite the bullet and hire a real coach, we’ll just be spinning our wheels in last place. We’ve proven it over and over in basketball and football. Anyone can say we don’t have the money, but the reality is that it cost us more in the long run to keep repeating the same mistakes.
 
Only a Rutgers fan would say the team doesnt belong in the Big Ten after being saved by the Big Ten. That's far worse for recruits to see than anything else imo. And it's silly given the payout situation and how much less money we get.

With all due respect, the only thing the B1G “saved” was Olympic/non-revenue sports. The money for those sports will do wonders. Football is an entirely different animal. It will still require institutional/fan/donor support to be able to be competitive in this conference, even once we are fully vested. That includes hiring and paying for a real STAFF. Any good HC that can make an impact will not only want to get paid but needs money for his assistants. And I just can’t see that happening here. It takes a lot to feed the proverbial football “beast” and I don’t think RU or the state of NJ has the stomach for it. Unless RU football gets itself a “sugar daddy” or two, a la T. Boone Pickens, who’ll say “don’t worry, I’ll take care of Flood/Ash’s buyout” it’s going to be a very long, rough stretch. Hence why you get posts like this yearning for our FCS football days. I get it.
 
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Had the same thought. We’re freaking out because that’s what we like to do, but we’re really just 3 games in. In 2008 RU lost 5 out its first 6 beating only Morgan St. they squeaked past uconn thanks to a missed FG and then ripped off 7 straight wins (including a ranked Pitt and N.C. state the bowl game).

Sure there are a dozen other reasons to not feel good about this team right now, but I’m all for letting things play out a bit more before declaring this a total disaster.

Also not saying this team and coaches will all of a sudden click and win out... the schedule is waaaaaay too tough for that. But let’s just see if things turn around at all and head in the right direction.

That team had Teel, Britt, and Underwood
 
That buyout is a joke. That is where I seriously seriously question Hobbs judgement. If he was smart and intuitive enough, he would have had a better exit option even if pushed to hire Ash. But if he was that all in on Ash I seriously question his judgement. From the first presser I was sceptical about Ash .
 
Since this thread is about being Realistic...

For the people who are upset with the contract... understand that it is a standard contact in College Football. The extension was caked in due to Flood, it was the only way to get anyone to take this job. It is ok to discuss the business side of things, but at least try to do some research and see how contracts are normally done these days. Compare to other colleges, was Ash's contract a lot different? No it wasn't. The only reason you even care is because we got blown out by freaking Kansas and recruiting is not going well. If Ash was killing it on gameday and recruiting, no one here would give a damn about the contract.
 
I think the B1G is getting exactly what they wanted by inviting Rutgers. They knew our financials and didn’t give us full share. They set up the unbalanced divisions. NJ recruiting has propped up the blue bloods in conference. I don’t think there was any expectation or desire for Rutgers football to win right away or at all.
 
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