A VERY Interesting Question in regards to the Coaching Future

[WG78]

It's a well known fact regarding RU's morbid financial situation and restrictions it imposes when it comes to athletic spending. With that being said, I think we all can agree that SOME form of change NEEDS to be made. I offer these 2 scenerios and would like to hear opinions.

1) Hire on the cheap- After John O's post on Saturday, which painted a very bleak future, let's assume that even guys like Rhule, Babers, and Fleck would be out of our range. This would most likely mean hiring a coordinator with no HC experience, or a HC from a lower level i.e. Fordhams Joe Moorehead. The potential upside of this would be that it would give us the change that many of us so desperately desire, and would most likely give us an upgrade in game planning and actual on the field X's and O's where many here feel Flood in incompetent. The downside is, it won't be the sexy hire that most of the fan base is clamoring for, and won't have an immediate impact upgrading recruiting. If you swing and miss with an unproven commodity here, it may bring the program back to Terry Shea status.

OR

2) Upgrade the OC and DC- It would cost the University a few million to buyout Flood and his staff and wouldn't leave much to spend on the incoming staff. The upside is, Spending 500k or so each on a new OC and DC would be a much more cost effective way to provide change and improve our competitiveness. We all saw last year how much of a difference having a good established coordinator makes with Fridge as OC and in 2012 with Rob Smith as DC. Also, according to John O, the buyout for Flood and staff will be much cheaper next year and it will bring us a year closer to becoming a full share in the B1G. The downside is, it may be like putting a band aid over a gunshot wound and will be another year wasted under a regime that may never take us to the level of competitiveness the fans expect.

 

[superfan01]

I would hire on the cheap if those were my two options.

You can no longer sell flood as the leader of this program.

It will just get ugly if flood stays on as head coach. Do you really want fire flood signs or chants at home games next year?

 

[KnightsofChrome]

I would hire on the cheap if those were my two options.

You can no longer sell flood as the leader of this program.

It will just get ugly if flood stays on as head coach. Do you really want fire flood signs or chants at home games next year?

"next year?"

 

[RUtrumpet92]

What up and coming superstar OC or DC would sign on to work under Flood next season? If those are the choices, give me the unproven cheaper hire as HC. The trick will be finding the right man for the job with so many coaching jobs open this offseason.

 

[cRURah]

Flood must go period.

 

[brookdale-soda]

Did we really improve under Fridge? i think our awe of Fridge is based on articles praising Fridge (and us fans praising Fridge) rather than actual statistics. We scored 28 ppg with Fridge. We currently are scoring 27 ppg (without Fridge).

 

[derleider]

What up and coming superstar OC or DC would sign on to work under Flood next season? If those are the choices, give me the unproven cheaper hire as HC. The trick will be finding the right man for the job with so many coaching jobs open this offseason.

Its a trick we wont pull off - and it will cost more than Flood costs now. Basically it would be making a change for the sake of making a change. If we cant afford to get Temples coach, then we might as well resign ourselves to being a team that scratches to make 6-6 every year until sometime in the 2020s. Seriously - the guy has had one good season. If hes out of our league then Flood is probably about as good as it gets for us. We can fire him and pretend the 4th best available MAC coach or the DC for a mid-level P5 team is going to get it done - but thats just deluding ourselves - like firing Gary Waters and hiring FHJ and Mike Rice and expecting different results.

 

[RU31trap]

Both options stink but I appreciate the posters realistic view of Rutgers financial situation. In my honest opinion you're looking at 3 to 5 years before being able to hire a legit coach and assistants. Call me crazy but as of right now the invite to the B10 has benefited Trenton more so than Rutgers.

 

[Steveriknight]

We'd probably get killed in the press for this, but one option would be for RU to float some bond anticipation notes to fund a new coaching staff's salary expenses for a couple years.

With bond anticipation notes you can roll them over year after year and pay only interest on them, no principal payments. I believe it's after the fifth year you have to start making principal payments, but in five year's time we'll be just about ready for B1G cash flows, so that would be good timing. Schools and municipal government float bond anticipation notes (BAN's) all the time and you can be sure that RU already has a bunch on their Debt Service Fund balance sheet.

We could afford a top notch coaching staff starting next season, and avoid losing all the fan interest and monies that go along with that. It's a creative option, but it's probably too bold to use a strategy like this given the microscope RU's finances are always under. It's essentially investing in RU football today, collateralized by future cash flows 6 years from now. That's just smarter money management if you ask me. Planning to send RU football down the shitter until 2021 is not smart management on a number of levels.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Get Matt Rhule, We should be able to afford to give him a decent raise and I would like to see the contract loaded with bonuses. I know some people maybe say jeepers but he is a Penn State guy, well so was GS and that worked out pretty well.

Bonus for beating Penn State ( same thing that MBB has with SHU)
Bonus for winning a bowl game
Bonus for winning the division
Bonus for winning a New years six bowl (Rose, Orange or something) bigger than the other one
Bonus for winning the Big Ten championship.
Bonus for winning the National Championship (along with a nice raise)

If we can't do that we are screwed. It is not like USC (both of them) will come calling for him, and Maryland wants a spread guy.

 

[RU2055]

In 2013 one of the reasons given why it wouldn't be wise to fire Flood was the assistants would have be let go too, and they supposedly at the time, had large buyouts since they were only on the first year of their two year contracts. It will be cheaper to fire Flood the following year, they said.

What happened? They kept Flood, and got rid of the assistants anyway. The propaganda became, it's the assistants fault. They betrayed Flood. Prince was trying to undermine Flood. Wrobo is the worse OL coach ever (even though Flood called him the best OL coach just a year prior!) and Cohen was just an inept DC, who also betrayed Flood. Oh, and how can we forget the cupboard was left bare by Schiano.

So, the purse strings were opened up to bring in the Fridge. In addition to paying the buyouts of the fired assistants, we ended up spending more money on the new coaches. So how did that move financially make any sense??? Yet you keep hearing, but but but there's no money!

Then, of course in 2014, Flood is given an extension right before the "meat" of the schedule.

Now this year, it is supposedly going to be expensive to fire Flood and it will be cheaper next year (sounds familiar?). Besides, it is not Flood's fault that all of these kids got kicked off the team and he is left to field a "young" team. This year is also a hard schedule and next year will be easier. Blah blah blah ..... ground hog day at it's finest.

See a pattern? There will always be a freaking excuse. E-ve-ry dam year.

We are being played - for three years running now - OPEN YOUR EYES LOYAL SONS.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

We can't afford NOT to upgrade. If we can sell out every home game we will make up the money difference. Also wouldn't the donors want to back a winner rather than someone who embarrasses them and wastes their hard earn money?

 

[JQRU91]

The problem with option 2 is who does Flood know to hire, would they want to work for him, and would he get out of the way to let them do their job? I find it a rather dubious proposition on all three of those counts.

 

[Toddwills00]

What OC or DC who is truly P5 level would want to work under Flood?

 

[Knight Shift]

We can't afford NOT to upgrade. If we can sell out every home game we will make up the money difference. Also wouldn't the donors want to back a winner rather than someone who embarrasses them and wastes their hard earn money?

 

[needmorecowbell]

That made me laugh.

 

[ru-baby]

It's no longer a question of money. Flood is rapidly tarnishing the university image in multiple ways and continuance of that will lead to less attendance, less donors, less applications and thus an adverse economic impact. It will cost MORE to keep the disingenuous one.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Why would you post something here, about a topic John posted on the round table, when many of us here don't have access to the it? So, that being said, what did John say, that we're not gonna hire on Urban Meyer-type salary coach? If that's the case, true, but we all know that already. Nothing new there. Also not new news that an increase in staff salaries, for new staff, would be happy to be covered by donations. Again, nothing new there, this has been the case for two years now, maybe longer.

 

[WG78]

Did we really improve under Fridge? i think our awe of Fridge is based on articles praising Fridge (and us fans praising Fridge) rather than actual statistics. We scored 28 ppg with Fridge. We currently are scoring 27 ppg (without Fridge).

Your statistics are bs. It's how many yards per game and points per game our OFFENSE is averaging, that's relevant, not the team. Look that up and get back to me.

 

[LevaosLectures]

There's no way Morehead would be worse. What's his salary st Fordham?

 

[RU4Real]

Ah... Stage 3 - "Bargaining".

You guys are halfway there. Hang in, we'll get through it.

 

[LC-88]

We need to go with a proven winning High School coach. I think it's time we finally hire Bob Hurley, Sr.

 

[drewbagel423]

After John O's post on Saturday, which painted a very bleak future...

And yet a few people here kept telling us things were in the works, and it'll be happening sooner than we think, blah blah blah.

 

[bac2therac]

we also await the report findings that can change things

 

[LevaosLectures]

O know it's RT but can people at least give us the gist of what he said?

 

[yesrutgers01]

O know it's RT but can people at least give us the gist of what he said?

No

 

[jonS]

The two posited options are unacceptable. Either fire Flood and hire the best HC available or wait another year when the buyouts are less , fewer high profile colleges would be looking for a head coach and Rutgers would hopefully have more money to spend.

 

[srru86]

have an immediate impact upgrading recruiting.

This should really be the only objective. You can always hire a coordinator for the X's & O's and assistants to teach.

 

[ru8081]

Spend the damn money! What financial adviser would say no given the new B1G contract.

 

[RU2055]

The two posited options are unacceptable. Either fire Flood and hire the best HC available or wait another year when the buyouts are less , fewer high profile colleges would be looking for a head coach and Rutgers would hopefully have more money to spend.

How many times do I have to state it - this is a Game of Thrones "Rutgers Style".

As more and more people are coming to the realization of Flood's incompetence, the defenders are running out of material. The two options you mentioned and what you keep hearing (yes, even in this message board) is nothing more than their last stand. Either hire a proven coach OR wait another year. THIS WAS THE SAME STRATEGY IN 2013 WHEN THE VOICES TO FIRE FLOOD GREW VERY LOUD.

Rutgers may not have $5 million to spend on a "proven coach" (whatever that means) but Rutgers can absolutely afford to pay for a coach $1-2 million. You don't think we can find a coach for that money? OF COURSE WE CAN!!! But the propaganda machine will tell you "NOPE" it's either Urban Meyer or keep Flood.

 

[BaseballFan913]

Joe Moglia

 

[knightfan7]

How many times do I have to state it - this is a Game of Thrones "Rutgers Style".

As more and more people are coming to the realization of Flood's incompetence, the defenders are running out of material. The two options you mentioned and what you keep hearing (yes, even in this message board) is nothing more than their last stand. Either hire a proven coach OR wait another year. THIS WAS THE SAME STRATEGY IN 2013 WHEN THE VOICES TO FIRE FLOOD GREW VERY LOUD.

Rutgers may not have $5 million to spend on a "proven coach" (whatever that means) but Rutgers can absolutely afford to pay for a coach $1-2 million. You don't think we can find a coach for that money? OF COURSE WE CAN!!! But the propaganda machine will tell you "NOPE" it's either Urban Meyer or keep Flood.

$1 million? Choices are very limited unless you're going to look at someone currently at a much lower level. Maybe, just maybe you could find someone worthwhile who could hit the ground running once you approach $2+ million.

Here's the problem as I see it. Rutgers is toxic right now. If I'm a prospective candidate's agent I'm going to strongly advise my client to look elsewhere. There are so many things going on that make this a bad job for most anyone including going head to head against schools that have much greater resources and an administration, fanbase, state, and media that actually support the program.

You can reasonably say a change is needed but to think there's someone out there willing to take the job who would be able to turn this mess around right now is nowhere close to a given. I can't help but believe the RU job is a "Coach Killer".

 

[rutgersguy1]

You can reasonably say a change is needed but to think there's someone out there willing to take the job who would be able to turn this mess around right now is nowhere close to a given. I can't help but believe the RU job is a "Coach Killer".

I think this narrative is overplayed too much here. Coach killer to who? Guys at the top of "hot list" right now like Fuente/Herman. Sure could be but others in the midmajors or coordinator ranks no way.

Mind you if you identified guys like Herman/Fuente earlier (I've been mentioning Herman for a few years now) before they blow up you could get them. Fuente was the TCU OC and went to Memphis. That's not some cream of the crop spot. Herman was OSU's OC and went to Houston again not anything special. I posted an article a few weeks back where Herman was literally peeling up floor tiles in their facility/going to Home Depot and fixing it himself. How about Mullen from Florida OC to Miss. St. Kevin Wilson OU OC to Indiana. Jim McElwain Alabama OC to Colorado St.

These aren't "coach killer" spots? When these guys blow up yes they will be more choosy but you can certainly get them to most P5 jobs when they're coordinators and mid major coaches. Point is trying to sniff out the next big one before he blows up.

My personal "realistic" choices are Doug Meacham TCU OC and Dave Aranda Wisconsin DC. A hair behind is Dino Babers the Bowling Green HC. I've gone into more detailed reasons why in other threads.

Meacham makes 350K at TCU, Aranda 550K at Wisconsin, Babers 400K at Bowling Green last I checked. Even at 1.5M, you're tripling to quadrupling these guys salaries and giving them a P5 job in decent recruiting ground and nice market. You can get them and others similar to them here.

 

[knightfan7]

I think this narrative is overplayed too much here. Coach killer to who? Guys at the top of "hot list" right now like Fuente/Herman. Sure could be but others in the midmajors or coordinator ranks no way.

Mind you if you identified guys like Herman/Fuente earlier (I've been mentioning Herman for a few years now) before they blow up you could get them. Fuente was the TCU OC and went to Memphis. That's not some cream of the crop spot. Herman was OSU's OC and went to Houston again not anything special. I posted an article a few weeks back where Herman was literally peeling up floor tiles in their facility/going to Home Depot and fixing it himself. How about Mullen from Florida OC to Miss. St. Kevin Wilson OU OC to Indiana. Jim McElwain Alabama OC to Colorado St.

These aren't "coach killer" spots? When these guys blow up yes they will be more choosy but you can certainly get them to most P5 jobs when they're coordinators and mid major coaches. Point is trying to sniff out the next big one before he blows up.

My personal "realistic" choices are Doug Meacham TCU OC and Dave Aranda Wisconsin DC. A hair behind is Dino Babers the Bowling Green HC. I've gone into more detailed reasons why in other threads.

Meacham makes 350K at TCU, Aranda 550K at Wisconsin, Babers 400K at Bowling Green last I checked. Even at 1.5M, you're tripling to quadrupling these guys salaries and giving them a P5 job in decent recruiting ground and nice market. You can get them and others similar to them here.

 

[kupuna133]

I think this narrative is overplayed too much here. Coach killer to who? Guys at the top of "hot list" right now like Fuente/Herman. Sure could be but others in the midmajors or coordinator ranks no way.

Mind you if you identified guys like Herman/Fuente earlier (I've been mentioning Herman for a few years now) before they blow up you could get them. Fuente was the TCU OC and went to Memphis. That's not some cream of the crop spot. Herman was OSU's OC and went to Houston again not anything special. I posted an article a few weeks back where Herman was literally peeling up floor tiles in their facility/going to Home Depot and fixing it himself. How about Mullen from Florida OC to Miss. St. Kevin Wilson OU OC to Indiana. Jim McElwain Alabama OC to Colorado St.

These aren't "coach killer" spots? When these guys blow up yes they will be more choosy but you can certainly get them to most P5 jobs when they're coordinators and mid major coaches. Point is trying to sniff out the next big one before he blows up.

My personal "realistic" choices are Doug Meacham TCU OC and Dave Aranda Wisconsin DC. A hair behind is Dino Babers the Bowling Green HC. I've gone into more detailed reasons why in other threads.

Meacham makes 350K at TCU, Aranda 550K at Wisconsin, Babers 400K at Bowling Green last I checked. Even at 1.5M, you're tripling to quadrupling these guys salaries and giving them a P5 job in decent recruiting ground and nice market. You can get them and others similar to them here.

Many of the guys mentioned are looking for an opportunity. All would love the chance to right the ship and prove people wrong. I want a guy that comes in with a chip on their shoulder.

 

[brookdale-soda]

I don't see an improvement with a different coordinator. Lets look at the dramatic improvements everyone talks about from Fridge and compare against his predecessors and successors.
year(coord) avg points per game
2012 (Brock): 21.5 points per game
2013 (Prince): 26.5 points per game
2014 (Fridge): 26.7 points per game
2015 (McDaniels): 27.9 points per game

 

[knightfan7]

I think this narrative is overplayed too much here. Coach killer to who? Guys at the top of "hot list" right now like Fuente/Herman. Sure could be but others in the midmajors or coordinator ranks no way.

Mind you if you identified guys like Herman/Fuente earlier (I've been mentioning Herman for a few years now) before they blow up you could get them. Fuente was the TCU OC and went to Memphis. That's not some cream of the crop spot. Herman was OSU's OC and went to Houston again not anything special. I posted an article a few weeks back where Herman was literally peeling up floor tiles in their facility/going to Home Depot and fixing it himself. How about Mullen from Florida OC to Miss. St. Kevin Wilson OU OC to Indiana. Jim McElwain Alabama OC to Colorado St.

These aren't "coach killer" spots? When these guys blow up yes they will be more choosy but you can certainly get them to most P5 jobs when they're coordinators and mid major coaches. Point is trying to sniff out the next big one before he blows up.

My personal "realistic" choices are Doug Meacham TCU OC and Dave Aranda Wisconsin DC. A hair behind is Dino Babers the Bowling Green HC. I've gone into more detailed reasons why in other threads.

Meacham makes 350K at TCU, Aranda 550K at Wisconsin, Babers 400K at Bowling Green last I checked. Even at 1.5M, you're tripling to quadrupling these guys salaries and giving them a P5 job in decent recruiting ground and nice market. You can get them and others similar to them here.

Great post in response. You've obviously done your homework.

My feeling and that's all I've got is that with all the openings already and others that'll open up, Rutgers will be well down near the bottom of the list because of the reasons I stated. Money is always a strong consideration but let me ask this.....

If you are a worthwhile up and coming coach, are you going to stake your future here or are you going to look for a better situation? I am not saying RU should stick with Flood. Rather it's all about RU having to settle with someone who can't get a job elsewhere or doesn't have the "stain" lol to overcome the huge self imposed obstacles RU is facing at this time.

Even with all the crap Schiano had to muddle thru, at least it appeared he had a lot more institutional support than Flood has or his apparent successor would have. They gave him much of what he wanted. Can you see that happening now?

 

[knightfan7]

I don't see an improvement with a different coordinator. Lets look at the dramatic improvements everyone talks about from Fridge and compare against his predecessors and successors.
year(coord) avg points per game
2012 (Brock): 21.5 points per game
2013 (Prince): 26.5 points per game
2014 (Fridge): 26.7 points per game
2015 (McDaniels): 27.9 points per game

You can't really compare when you change who you've played as much as RU has. Remember between 2012 and 2014, something like 32 of 39 games were against different teams and in 3 different conferences.

 

[beaced]

I have always thought that borrowing against our guaranteed future income was a great idea. The cost in interest will be well made up by full stadiums with all the parking,catering and gift shop money.Above the monetary aspect would be the great image building that would be taking place. DO IT NOW!!:sunglasses:

 

[rutgersguy1]

Great post in response. You've obviously done your homework.

My feeling and that's all I've got is that with all the openings already and others that'll open up, Rutgers will be well down near the bottom of the list because of the reasons I stated. Money is always a strong consideration but let me ask this.....

If you are a worthwhile up and coming coach, are you going to stake your future here or are you going to look for a better situation? I am not saying RU should stick with Flood. Rather it's all about RU having to settle with someone who can't get a job elsewhere or doesn't have the "stain" lol to overcome the huge self imposed obstacles RU is facing at this time.

Even with all the crap Schiano had to muddle thru, at least it appeared he had a lot more institutional support than Flood has or his apparent successor would have. They gave him much of what he wanted. Can you see that happening now?

The institutional support we have here couldn't be any worse than Memphis and probably Houston either and the 2 hot names of the moment took those jobs.

And again just look at it from a financial standpoint, even at our lower price point you're still tripling to quadrupling these guy's salaries. You think they don't want to help make their families more financially comfortable?

We're unlikely to get the hottest of the hottest but we can get that next undiscovered gem. I don't just throw any coach's name out there for the hell of it. I take a deeper look at the guys and see is this a guy who can make step up and what has he done in the past and is any of it possibly flash in the pan or does this guy have the goods etc..

If you want to know more about some of these coaches you should read some of my other posts in coaching threads. I look up and post stuff regarding the rankings of defenses/offenses they've run as coordinator and HC if applicable, articles about them etc..You should look at youtube videos too just to get a feel for the type of personality they might have. I don't have a problem with coordinators vs. coaches with HC experience because when I look I don't really see difference in success/failure rates from either category.

Short synopsis of guys I like:
Aranda is even keel guy, not high not low just calm demeanor. Kind of unusual for defensive coach. Reminds me of a David Shaw but on the defensive side of the ball. I've never seen a coach mix x/o knowledge into just simple questions from reporters as much as him. I like it, kind of impressive. Certainly not boiler plate. Top 15 defense at Utah State and now top 5-10 at Wisconsin. Adapted from larger defensive guys when he first got to Wisconsin to smaller quicker ones now. I posted an article about it in one thread. Put him with a good spread OC and I'd be happy. They probably ran them at his last 2 stops of Utah State/Hawaii even if Wisconsin doesn't now.

Babers has a good HC type feel to him, I can see a leader there. My issue with him is can he give me a mediocre defense. He inherited a very good one and it has tanked under Babers but his offense is superb. Top 5 offenses and 2 qbs he's developed in Garrapolo at Eastern Illinois and Matt Johnson at BG.

Meacham seems a little laid back but definitely knowledgeable. He also works alongside Patterson so I'd like to think he wouldn't neglect the defensive side of the ball. Okorn thrived with him at Houston and went down after he left. Boykin struggled before he got to TCU and now is thriving. Top 5 offenses under his watch.

It's always going to be a gamble for just about anyone. Like I've said look at Strong/Andersen/Riley/Bielema/Tuberville at TT and you see it's always going to be a crap shoot to varying degrees.