A VERY Interesting Question in regards to the Coaching Future

[lighty]

"$1 million? Choices are very limited unless you're going to look at someone currently at a much lower level. Maybe, just maybe you could find someone worthwhile who could hit the ground running once you approach $2+ million."

Why is it that places like Youngstown State can land someone like Bo Pellini for under $250,000 but Rutgers can't?

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

"$1 million? Choices are very limited unless you're going to look at someone currently at a much lower level. Maybe, just maybe you could find someone worthwhile who could hit the ground running once you approach $2+ million."

Why is it that places like Youngstown State can land someone like Bo Pellini for under $250,000 but Rutgers can't?

because of evil... that's why!

 

[AreYouNUTS]

And yet a few people here kept telling us things were in the works, and it'll be happening sooner than we think, blah blah blah.

2 years ago? They absolutely were.

 

[RU2055]

The institutional support we have here couldn't be any worse than Memphis and probably Houston either and the 2 hot names of the moment took those jobs.

And again just look at it from a financial standpoint, even at our lower price point you're still tripling to quadrupling these guy's salaries. You think they don't want to help make their families more financially comfortable?

We're unlikely to get the hottest of the hottest but we can get that next undiscovered gem. I don't just throw any coach's name out there for the hell of it. I take a deeper look at the guys and see is this a guy who can make step up and what has he done in the past and is any of it possibly flash in the pan or does this guy have the goods etc..

If you want to know more about some of these coaches you should read some of my other posts in coaching threads. I look up and post stuff regarding the rankings of defenses/offenses they've run as coordinator and HC if applicable, articles about them etc..You should look at youtube videos too just to get a feel for the type of personality they might have. I don't have a problem with coordinators vs. coaches with HC experience because when I look I don't really see difference in success/failure rates from either category.

Short synopsis of guys I like:
Aranda is even keel guy, not high not low just calm demeanor. Kind of unusual for defensive coach. Reminds me of a David Shaw but on the defensive side of the ball. I've never seen a coach mix x/o knowledge into just simple questions from reporters as much as him. I like it, kind of impressive. Certainly not boiler plate. Top 15 defense at Utah State and now top 5-10 at Wisconsin. Adapted from larger defensive guys when he first got to Wisconsin to smaller quicker ones now. I posted an article about it in one thread. Put him with a good spread OC and I'd be happy. They probably ran them at his last 2 stops of Utah State/Hawaii even if Wisconsin doesn't now.

Babers has a good HC type feel to him, I can see a leader there. My issue with him is can he give me a mediocre defense. He inherited a very good one and it has tanked under Babers but his offense is superb. Top 5 offenses and 2 qbs he's developed in Garrapolo at Eastern Illinois and Matt Johnson at BG.

Meacham seems a little laid back but definitely knowledgeable. He also works alongside Patterson so I'd like to think he wouldn't neglect the defensive side of the ball. Okorn thrived with him at Houston and went down after he left. Boykin struggled before he got to TCU and now is thriving. Top 5 offenses under his watch.

It's always going to be a gamble for just about anyone. Like I've said look at Strong/Andersen/Riley/Bielema/Tuberville at TT and you see it's always going to be a crap shoot to varying degrees.

I don't know about you guys, but if I were Julie I am appointing rutgersguy1 as the chair of the head coach search committee.

 

[knightfan7]

The institutional support we have here couldn't be any worse than Memphis and probably Houston either and the 2 hot names of the moment took those jobs.

And again just look at it from a financial standpoint, even at our lower price point you're still tripling to quadrupling these guy's salaries. You think they don't want to help make their families more financially comfortable?

We're unlikely to get the hottest of the hottest but we can get that next undiscovered gem. I don't just throw any coach's name out there for the hell of it. I take a deeper look at the guys and see is this a guy who can make step up and what has he done in the past and is any of it possibly flash in the pan or does this guy have the goods etc..

If you want to know more about some of these coaches you should read some of my other posts in coaching threads. I look up and post stuff regarding the rankings of defenses/offenses they've run as coordinator and HC if applicable, articles about them etc..You should look at youtube videos too just to get a feel for the type of personality they might have. I don't have a problem with coordinators vs. coaches with HC experience because when I look I don't really see difference in success/failure rates from either category.

Short synopsis of guys I like:
Aranda is even keel guy, not high not low just calm demeanor. Kind of unusual for defensive coach. Reminds me of a David Shaw but on the defensive side of the ball. I've never seen a coach mix x/o knowledge into just simple questions from reporters as much as him. I like it, kind of impressive. Certainly not boiler plate. Top 15 defense at Utah State and now top 5-10 at Wisconsin. Adapted from larger defensive guys when he first got to Wisconsin to smaller quicker ones now. I posted an article about it in one thread. Put him with a good spread OC and I'd be happy. They probably ran them at his last 2 stops of Utah State/Hawaii even if Wisconsin doesn't now.

Babers has a good HC type feel to him, I can see a leader there. My issue with him is can he give me a mediocre defense. He inherited a very good one and it has tanked under Babers but his offense is superb. Top 5 offenses and 2 qbs he's developed in Garrapolo at Eastern Illinois and Matt Johnson at BG.

Meacham seems a little laid back but definitely knowledgeable. He also works alongside Patterson so I'd like to think he wouldn't neglect the defensive side of the ball. Okorn thrived with him at Houston and went down after he left. Boykin struggled before he got to TCU and now is thriving. Top 5 offenses under his watch.

It's always going to be a gamble for just about anyone. Like I've said look at Strong/Andersen/Riley/Bielema/Tuberville at TT and you see it's always going to be a crap shoot to varying degrees.

Understand I'm discussing, not arguing as it's obvious you know more than I do.

According to the USA Today, Memphis and Houston both pay their HC's more than RU. Of the 61 P5 and ND that reported salaries, there are only 3 schools that pay less (ND????, Illinois (interim), and Kansas) than RU which to me again shows where RU stands in desirability.

Other schools that pay more include Navy, UConn, Fresno, ECU, and Colorado State.

What I found interesting is even after his extension, Temple only pays Rhule $680k. Would he interest you if he could get out of the remaining 6 years of his new contract? Do you think he'd move across the river or is he perhaps setting his sights at another Pa school? Of course many here would hate hiring a former PSU LB.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

Sorry, keep laughing at self-proclaimed VERY interesting question.

Marginally interesting.

 

[letitrip2]

We have the money. Just look at the both the sports and total budget at RU - a few million dollars compared to the scope of those budgets is almost insignificant. Fact is the university has many options to secure the funds for a top flight coach and staff. The real problem is that our leadership simply does not want to spend it. Harping on the ' poor RU - we don't have the money" nonsense that is so common on this board actually deflects the responsibility from where it belongs - the pres and BOG. That is who the pressure needs to be focused on..

 

[drewbagel423]

2 years ago? They absolutely were.

No within the last few weeks we've been reading this.

 

[vandalen1]

I would hire on the cheap if those were my two options.

You can no longer sell flood as the leader of this program.

It will just get ugly if flood stays on as head coach. Do you really want fire flood signs or chants at home games next year?

Flood is the leader of the program. Players love him and this class (ranked between 35-45) loves him. So I don't agree with you there. Should he be fired? No, unless there is a coach out there that RU wants and can afford. Making a change to someone else that doesn't have solid HC credentials makes no sense to me.
There are coaches out there that would work if we could get them. Rhule, Fleck, Campbell all could do it and they wouldn't cost too much more than Flood gets. But I doubt this admin is even thinking in that direction.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Understand I'm discussing, not arguing as it's obvious you know more than I do.

According to the USA Today, Memphis and Houston both pay their HC's more than RU. Of the 61 P5 and ND that reported salaries, there are only 3 schools that pay less (ND????, Illinois (interim), and Kansas) than RU which to me again shows where RU stands in desirability.

Other schools that pay more include Navy, UConn, Fresno, ECU, and Colorado State.

What I found interesting is even after his extension, Temple only pays Rhule $680k. Would he interest you if he could get out of the remaining 6 years of his new contract? Do you think he'd move across the river or is he perhaps setting his sights at another Pa school? Of course many here would hate hiring a former PSU LB.

I'm not arguing either that's not my style here if you've seen my posts. The tone isn't meant to be such either if you're taking it that way. Anyone can have any opinion they like, I just debate the points brought up.

Now as to USA today stuff which I see brought up here a lot. That's showing the current salaries of coaches, it's not telling you what their salary was on their first contract when they stepped up. Some of those guys might be on first contracts and some aren't. The first contract is what needs to be looked at not whatever they currently might be paid after contract adjustments. I've said most first time P5 coaches make in the range of 1.5-2.5M with some exceptions.

Fuente made about 900K when he first went to Memphis. Now it's been bumped up to 1.4M. Herman makes about 1.3M and this is his first contract. Mullen IIRC also was in that 1.5-2.5M and so were many others I've looked up in the past but can't remember now. Mike Bobo ex Georgia OC that went to CSU to replace McElwain makes 1.35M. Mark Stoops got around 2M on his first contract too. So what we need to concern ourselves with is can we pay what is the usual range for first time contracts for P5 coaches? I think we can and that's why money was never a big issue to me as it is for others. I'm not looking to spend 3M or more to get these coordinators and most mid major coaches.

As to Flood, people bring up his salary but I find it somewhat irrelevant to what we'd be able to pay. We offered Cristobal 1.3M remember. Flood got and gets what his resume deserves. Should we pay him more just because? I feel like some ADs actually do for some crazy reason. Charlie Strong 5M? Really, just because you're Texas and can afford it. Kevin Sumlin makes 5M too. (btw his first contract paid him 2M and was bumped twice first to 3M then 5M) Both solid coaches but that much really? Jimbo Fisher a national champ coach at a big school only makes 4M. It's waste of resources IMO. I wouldn't pay a guy more just because I can afford to I'd pay him what his resume deserves and I think TP did that. So I won't use Flood's salary as a harbinger to the fact that we wouldn't pay another guy with a better resume more. I see it as Flood got what his resume deserved and the next guy will get what his resume deserves.

As to those exceptions to that 1.5-2.5M range I give for most first time P5 contracts, I think Fuente/Herman could be two of them. I could see them make between 2.5-3.5M in their next contract especially if the SEC comes calling. Looking at it, I notice coaches from high mid majors with a nice track record make more when they take the step up to the P5. Chris Petersen Boise to Washington 3.6M, Butch Jones Cincy to Tenn 3M, Urban Meyer Utah to Florida 3.25M, Jim McElwain Colorado St to Florida 3.5M. So I think it's possible for Fuente/Herman to fall in line with those guys especially if it's an SEC destination.

Most of the other low mid major HCs and coordinators are unlikely to make more than 1.5-2.5M on their first contract. I suppose a Kirby Smart type might when they already make 1M as a coordinator but Chad Morris made over a million as Clemson OC and he makes 2M at SMU. It's possible, Will Muschamp made 2.75M on his first contract at Florida but it's still a rare exception.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I don't know about you guys, but if I were Julie I am appointing rutgersguy1 as the chair of the head coach search committee.

Haha, this is just my fun. I like playing pretend AD for who MIGHT be good HCs. Most here look at film highlights of recruits, I couldn't care less. It's not as if I could project how they'd do in college anyway. I always think coaching is the key more than recruiting so that gets my focus. I don't like throwing out names just for the hell of it, if I'm going to discuss it I want to be informed and in turn also inform others here about what's out there.

The only unfortunate thing is the number of times I repeat myself on the same points but it's a big board with thousands of readers so you know can't expect anything different haha.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Right, wrong or indifferent, Charlie Strong was a hot commodity when we was on the market. If memory serves, and admittedly coaching searches are NOT my thing, Texas missed on their first choice(s)? If you're Texas, you overpay because the guys writing the checks down at the Rod and Gun Club, don't like being embarrassed. If you're Texas, you get who go after. You don't get left standing with your pecker in your hand.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Right, wrong or indifferent, Charlie Strong was a hot commodity when we was on the market. If memory serves, and admittedly coaching searches are NOT my thing, Texas missed on their first choice(s)? If you're Texas, you overpay because the guys writing the checks down at the Rod and Gun Club, don't like being embarrassed. If you're Texas, you get who go after. You don't get left standing with your pecker in your hand.

Texas was dreaming of Saban at the time and then after that coaches like Patterson/Briles. I don' think either of them wanted to leave their spots. Isn't that the case more often than not. Lot of these "name" schools have these dreams for the biggest in the profession but usually it's the hot guy in the lower tier like Brian Kelly/Charlie Strong/Jim McElwain they end up with, all solid to good coaches mind you. It's just like the Chip Kelly dream some schools are having currently. Occasionally they do come true like with Harbaugh but more times than not they don't.

Despite his struggles at Texas, I still think he's a solid coach but needs to do better in choosing his OCs. I just thought he was overpaid at 5M. I thought he got his extension to the 3M+ range a little too early at Louisville too. I'd like to have seen how he'd do without Bridgewater and if he could replace him before upping the contract.

But that seems to be the MO these days for athletic directors. With just the first hint of success, no proof of consistency, they start tearing up contracts and give out raises/extensions. You're better off letting the guy go, occasionally you may lose a good one but I think more times than not you won't be losing much.

It doesn't matter if you're Texas and overpaying they can afford it. But how many times have we seen a school regretting their quick extensions and high salaries and be stuck with a guy for longer than they'd like. Besides regardless of whether you can afford it or not, I still see it as a waste of resources.

 

[SkilletHead2]

Guys, we need to think more creatively. Here is who we really need as the new Head Coach:

Donald Trump

We all know he isn't really going to be President, so he will be looking for a new challenge. What's the toughest job in America? OK, maybe it's Hillary's smile coach, but an argument could be made for HC at RU. And Trump is perfect for it. Admittedly he probably knows nothing about being a college football coach, but who cares? He'll hire Bill Belichek as Associate Head Coach, build a gigantic new "Trump Stadium" (first college football stadium in US with slots), and change the name of the conference to the Big Trump.

"We'll win so much you'll get tired of winning." (New Rutgers motto)

 

[Steveriknight]

Guys, we need to think more creatively. Here is who we really need as the new Head Coach:

Donald Trump

We all know he isn't really going to be President, so he will be looking for a new challenge. What's the toughest job in America? OK, maybe it's Hillary's smile coach, but an argument could be made for HC at RU. And Trump is perfect for it. Admittedly he probably knows nothing about being a college football coach, but who cares? He'll hire Bill Belichek as Associate Head Coach, build a gigantic new "Trump Stadium" (first college football stadium in US with slots), and change the name of the conference to the Big Trump.

"We'll win so much you'll get tired of winning." (New Rutgers motto)

LOL!! That's just awesome...

 

[KnightsofChrome]

Its a trick we wont pull off - and it will cost more than Flood costs now. Basically it would be making a change for the sake of making a change. If we cant afford to get Temples coach, then we might as well resign ourselves to being a team that scratches to make 6-6 every year until sometime in the 2020s. Seriously - the guy has had one good season. If hes out of our league then Flood is probably about as good as it gets for us. We can fire him and pretend the 4th best available MAC coach or the DC for a mid-level P5 team is going to get it done - but thats just deluding ourselves - like firing Gary Waters and hiring FHJ and Mike Rice and expecting different results.

Sorry Derleider, can't agree with you. Won't agree with you, I just can not believe that in today's world of scholarship equality, that there is not any other coach with foresight to understand and appreciate the NYC market. Rutgers is NOT a destination, but it could very well be a place where a coaching legend is produced. Yes, it's a Pro Football town, but only because the masses have not been educated to the excitement of a College Football game! I truly believe that the right guy is out there, the kind of guy who can see the potential of this situation and build on it. Schiano, got the ball rolling, now we need a guy who has a little pazzazz, understanding of what it takes to produce consistent winning teams, and the ability to coach up(in the beginning), then recruit the area later. We need a fighter, the type of guy who is not so stubborn, that he puts himself before the program. And, we need a guy who will understand he can build his reputation within this program, while establishing a winning program.
Every single coach who has done this and lead programs like Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Michigan, and others have started at the bottom of the ladder, somewhere in their careers. And, they all were not multi-million dollar salary guys at the time. So, we just have to search, know our priorities, list the qualities we need and desire in a long term head coach, evaluate the field, then go after those people. I also realize that the quality of the Coach is and will be measured by the quality of the search committee. Therefore, let's start there! The Search Committee must be a representation of winners, people with a high football IQ who understand the landscape of today's College Football. They must have the ability to understand profit and loss as it is related to College Football, and backup that understanding with solid projections. We must get our educated, arrogant heads out of the sand, and see the possibility of the beach front we are standing on!!

 

[KnightsofChrome]

Flood is the leader of the program. Players love him and this class (ranked between 35-45) loves him. So I don't agree with you there. Should he be fired? No, unless there is a coach out there that RU wants and can afford. Making a change to someone else that doesn't have solid HC credentials makes no sense to me.
There are coaches out there that would work if we could get them. Rhule, Fleck, Campbell all could do it and they wouldn't cost too much more than Flood gets. But I doubt this admin is even thinking in that direction.

Spoken like a man who is very comfortable within his own arena, and change would put him into a mental hospital. WAKEUP!

 

[mal359]

We make a stink about the fact that a city in another state is marginally close to our school while also using the "Joisey" cliché. It makes no sense.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

How does a state university in one of the wealthiest states in the country get into a bad financial situation?

 

[mal359]

How does a state university in one of the wealthiest states in the country get into a bad financial situation?

People think that their precious tax dollars should go to old people and a city in another state.

 

[vandalen1]

Spoken like a man who is very comfortable within his own arena, and change would put him into a mental hospital. WAKEUP!

Go ahead and take the gun point it towards your ear and pull the trigger. That seems to make you comfortable. This has nothing to do with being comfortable. It has to do with being realistic. I am, you're not. Fantasyland calls Chrome; head over there.

 

[imbazza]

Why would you post something here, about a topic John posted on the round table, when many of us here don't have access to the it? So, that being said, what did John say, that we're not gonna hire on Urban Meyer-type salary coach? If that's the case, true, but we all know that already. Nothing new there. Also not new news that an increase in staff salaries, for new staff, would be happy to be covered by donations. Again, nothing new there, this has been the case for two years now, maybe longer.

O know it's RT but can people at least give us the gist of what he said?

As we can not copy and paste, I will state my perspective that I have had for a year or so, as John was on the same track
Barchi is a pure academic all sport are the same Badminton, Football or Track they are there as an extracurricular activity for students to enjoy the college experience. the President was brought in to merger the med school with the university on a shoe string. He has handcuffed Hermann in that he will not approve any changes in power sports MBB FB and WBB.
Think about he did a merger on a shoe string now a few alums want to spend Millions to pay a old coach and more Million to g=hire a new coach.
Barchi tenure is about to end and he will not touch a major sport hire/fire on his watch.
ONLY if the "report" is super damaging and it can be used to fire Flood with just cause i.e. do not have to pay him severance pay, will Flood not be here in the fall of 2016
All said and done John's comment are that of a well informed logical man unlike so many we have on site with hate in their blood for all things Flood!
unless the "report" is poison Flood will be coaching thru the fall of 2016.

PS my view not John per say
No new coach till....
1) till contract expires
2) till we see what Maryland does in terms of choice and $ spent.= new B1G East division benchmark for a HC
3) till we have the money to pay for a $2-$3-$4 million dollar coach

 

[KnightsofChrome]

Go ahead and take the gun point it towards your ear and pull the trigger. That seems to make you comfortable. This has nothing to do with being comfortable. It has to do with being realistic. I am, you're not. Fantasyland calls Chrome; head over there.

No, I just prefer to be a person of action, while you enjoy the status quo. I have no problems with that, not all of us are innovators, or leaders. [thumb2]

 

[NotInRHouse]

Guys, we need to think more creatively. Here is who we really need as the new Head Coach:

Donald Trump

We all know he isn't really going to be President, so he will be looking for a new challenge. What's the toughest job in America? OK, maybe it's Hillary's smile coach, but an argument could be made for HC at RU. And Trump is perfect for it. Admittedly he probably knows nothing about being a college football coach, but who cares? He'll hire Bill Belichek as Associate Head Coach, build a gigantic new "Trump Stadium" (first college football stadium in US with slots), and change the name of the conference to the Big Trump.

"We'll win so much you'll get tired of winning." (New Rutgers motto)

I'll build a wall around NJ so big, and James Franklin will pay for it.

But it's going to have a big door so any good PA players can come in.

Floodies are bringing lies. They're bringing distortion. They're delusional. Some of them, I'm sure are good people.

Kyle Flood has been a disasssssta. He's a looooooza.

When was the last time we beat TTFP at anything?

We're going to repeal the 1-0 philosophy and replace it with something spectacular.

Kevin Wilson is very low energy.

Jim Harbaugh, I mean his brothaaa was a disaasta, I was the only one on the stage who said so.

Kevin Plank is Maryland's personal billionaire. I don't have to worry about taking money.

 

[JHG722]

Understand I'm discussing, not arguing as it's obvious you know more than I do.

According to the USA Today, Memphis and Houston both pay their HC's more than RU. Of the 61 P5 and ND that reported salaries, there are only 3 schools that pay less (ND????, Illinois (interim), and Kansas) than RU which to me again shows where RU stands in desirability.

Other schools that pay more include Navy, UConn, Fresno, ECU, and Colorado State.

What I found interesting is even after his extension, Temple only pays Rhule $680k. Would he interest you if he could get out of the remaining 6 years of his new contract? Do you think he'd move across the river or is he perhaps setting his sights at another Pa school? Of course many here would hate hiring a former PSU LB.

No, after his extension, he makes $1.5M.

 

[rucoe89]

As we can not copy and paste, I will state my perspective that I have had for a year or so, as John was on the same track
Barchi is a pure academic all sport are the same Badminton, Football or Track they are there as an extracurricular activity for students to enjoy the college experience. the President was brought in to merger the med school with the university on a shoe string. He has handcuffed Hermann in that he will not approve any changes in power sports MBB FB and WBB.
Think about he did a merger on a shoe string now a few alums want to spend Millions to pay a old coach and more Million to g=hire a new coach.
Barchi tenure is about to end and he will not touch a major sport hire/fire on his watch.
ONLY if the "report" is super damaging and it can be used to fire Flood with just cause i.e. do not have to pay him severance pay, will Flood not be here in the fall of 2016
All said and done John's comment are that of a well informed logical man unlike so many we have on site with hate in their blood for all things Flood!
unless the "report" is poison Flood will be coaching thru the fall of 2016.

PS my view not John per say
No new coach till....
1) till contract expires
2) till we see what Maryland does in terms of choice and $ spent.= new B1G East division benchmark for a HC
3) till we have the money to pay for a $2-$3-$4 million dollar coach

Pretty much as expected. Now everyone get the popcorn ready and watch Michigan beat the living bejeebers out of our beloved alma mater. #SIGH.