After watching the product on the field, do you think our S&C was improved this year?
- Thread starter cicero grimes
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I honestly don't know, because that was the toughest schedule I've seen RU play. They got pushed around, but was it because S&C didn't improve or because the competition was at an even higher level than in previous years?
Our O looked pretty well rested at the end of games.
That's good S&C.
That's good S&C.
Numerous three and outs will do that for you. Have to give DM some credit for that as well.
The D did get manhandled on occasion.. but that was largely due to being on the field all the time.. or it could have been that.
The OL on the other hand.. I don't know. I don't know if their getting pushed around was lack of talent, lack of strength, lack of plays designed to see if they could push the DL off the ball.. I just don't know. I am just not a fan of the OL standing up and absorbing blows from the DL.
The OL on the other hand.. I don't know. I don't know if their getting pushed around was lack of talent, lack of strength, lack of plays designed to see if they could push the DL off the ball.. I just don't know. I am just not a fan of the OL standing up and absorbing blows from the DL.
I don't buy the tough schedule reply. For one, we played a tough schedule last year, not as tough, but tough, and not to say we looked stronger or better conditioned last year, but conversely I don't think we looked stronger or better conditioned this year either.
2ndly, against the weaker comp on our schedule we could have shown off our new muscles. We did not.
And when the new staff came in they were very much mocking the physiques of the players on staff. So to show no noticeable improvement? Disapointing.
And I think that goes down the line. In what way did we improve from last year? It was nice that half our defense wasn't in jail on opening day? Or that coach didn't get himself suspended. But talking strictly on field? where was the improvement?
There's no maybe about it. Another year of real conditioning will obviously make a difference. This teams strength was pathetic before. One offseason doesn't magically make our guys above average when guys in other programs have had 4 years of real conditioning..just means we were one less year behind
S&C can make you bigger and stronger but every opponent is getting bigger and stronger too. If you start behind the 8 ball I'd guess it's pretty damned tough to catch up in just 7-8 months.
Even if the S&C was able to get close to catching up in a short time, the very obvious speed and talent difference would be a huge factor.
I don't get these posters questioning every S&C staff here over the past 10 years. First it was Butler, then Cole, now Parker? It's one of those abstract issues that seems to draw attention because it's easy to say and tough to disprove.
Even if the S&C was able to get close to catching up in a short time, the very obvious speed and talent difference would be a huge factor.
I don't get these posters questioning every S&C staff here over the past 10 years. First it was Butler, then Cole, now Parker? It's one of those abstract issues that seems to draw attention because it's easy to say and tough to disprove.
Is it really possible to answer this question after less than a single season, for an entire roster, in a new type of S&C program? I would think that we'll get a better idea, especially on the "S" side of things, come next year.
Impossible to answer, they had been working with Parker for less than a year when the season started. Let's see how they look in years 2 and 3.
I can say it seemed during the early part of the season when it was the hottest, we didn't seem to have as many players cramping up.
Impossible to tell whether the lines got stronger. Particularly the Oline because to show you got stronger, you'd have to make contact with the defensive player. When you let every D lineman and linebacker blow by to your left and your right, strength isn't very important.
As a mid western once said to me, "there is weight lifting strong, then there is farm boy strong." I think we faced farm boy strong.
OL looked much weaker. Pushed backwards with ease by all rushing DL in all games.
Not sure our DL strength was any better .
I was specifically looking fir that. Honestly , I did not see a difference. They were much slower in general but I did not see the endurance or strength difference that the hype built up. Maybe we will notice next year.
OL had it's issues, D played strong in many games, against a very tough schedule. It's easy for fans (experts/critics) to expect a certain level of play from college football players after they've played numerous games against teams ranked in the top 10 without taking into full account how beat up and worn down they are.
Uh-huh. It takes three years to get stronger? Ok. Al, is it going to take you 3 years to get another date with Miss 5 star?
As a mid western once said to me, "there is weight lifting strong, then there is farm boy strong." I think we faced farm boy strong.
The average bale of hay ain't too bad, its the random heavy ones that are the killers.
We might have been stronger but we definitely were not faster. Strength and conditioning should include speed and agility training. We didn't look very quick or agile at all. We looked slow and bulky at times.
Hard to tell so far. If we got stronger than we forgot how to block. If we didn't get stronger, we got blocked. Either way it didn't lead to wins. Should be stronger next year.
It takes 3 years to get guys into shape? To make guys stronger?
Let's be real when Parker said this in March, "The kids had nothing to eat, They were always hungry. They looked hungry. They looked sick. They looked skinny. I saw rib cages. I'm like, 'This is not good. You are a college athlete and I see rib cages?' No. That's going to change."
Or this
"From just listening to them, this is night and day different, This is nothing even close to what they've done."
It was hype.
And I'm not saying Parker is a bad S&C coach, just that in year one, I did not see a noticeable difference. And given the quotes above, I would have thought a noticeable difference would have been noticeable from day 1.
Going to take a few years.
And speed was a bigger issue than strength. We had 1AA speed this past year. It really showed on kickoffs. We had a kicker who couldn't reach the endzone, and even with kicks to the 5-10 it would continuously be run out to the 15-20 before you would even see an RU player.
Our lack of speed across the board is a huge issue. Speed can make up for lack of strength. Hopefully, we can get some legit speed into the program across every position, fast.
And speed was a bigger issue than strength. We had 1AA speed this past year. It really showed on kickoffs. We had a kicker who couldn't reach the endzone, and even with kicks to the 5-10 it would continuously be run out to the 15-20 before you would even see an RU player.
Our lack of speed across the board is a huge issue. Speed can make up for lack of strength. Hopefully, we can get some legit speed into the program across every position, fast.
It certainly would be nice if someone actually knew what the heck they were talking about! Instead of just typing to type.
Guarantee no one here could actually explain a strength or conditioning program or all the additional requirements involved in running one. JB's programs considered the actual health of the player not just making them fat for college
Guarantee no one here could actually explain a strength or conditioning program or all the additional requirements involved in running one. JB's programs considered the actual health of the player not just making them fat for college
It's not enough to get stronger, we need to be Big Ten competitive in terms of S&C.
Hopefully you can remove your head from your rear end within three years. Let me remind you that we didn't just lose, we got KILLED in 6 of our 10 losses, with a lack of talent, coaching, and S&C figuring prominently.
78-0 to Michigan
49-0 to MSU
24-7 to Illinois
48-13 to Washington
39-0 to PSU
31-13 to Maryland
Well conditioned teams don't lose 78-0 to their opponent. This is a multi-year fix.
You generally see rib cages when someone has low body fat. Your ribs aren't covered with large muscles but with thinner muscles like the obliques. Generally you see the outline of the ribcage unless you have a significant amount of body fat. It's probably a bad thing if you are a lineman and your rib cages are showing but not for skill/speed positions.
This was a very difficult schedule for ANY team.
Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Washington -- all in the top 6 at the END of the season. C'mon, that's a difficult schedule!
What exactly are Kenny Parker's credentials? I know he was the assistant strength and conditioning coach at OSU but does he have a degree in kinesiology or exercise science? The only thing I can find is he has a degree in sociology. Is he a Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach by the NSCA? It looks like he went from DLine coach to assistant S&C. How does 4 years of being an assistant qualify you to run a D1 Power 5 S&C program when you have no other credentials?
Looking at his bio from when he was at Ohio State there is no mention of any certifications or degrees related to strength and conditioning. If you look at the other strength coaches the majority have multiple. It seems like he was the least qualified out of all the assistance S&C assistants at Ohio State.
I mean does a sociology degree even require you to take a basic human anatomy class?
Looking at his bio from when he was at Ohio State there is no mention of any certifications or degrees related to strength and conditioning. If you look at the other strength coaches the majority have multiple. It seems like he was the least qualified out of all the assistance S&C assistants at Ohio State.
I mean does a sociology degree even require you to take a basic human anatomy class?
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I'm not denying the schedule was difficult.
I'm denying that the improved S&C was hidden by the difficult schedule.
If I make a fringe P5 kid stronger, then that's what I have: a stronger fringe player.
Guess what? Michigan and OSU have S&C programs too. Shocking, I know...
Guess what? Michigan and OSU have S&C programs too. Shocking, I know...
It's going to take at least 3 years to make this team big 10 strong, but it might take 5, because our opponents have had a head start in doing things the right way. Like I said before, it's not enough to get stronger, but we have to catch up to everyone else, and that will likely take time. We didn't just lose, we got killed.
Crying about tough schedules means nothing because tough schedules and well conditioned opponents are the new normal for us. It goes with the territory. This year, we were too easily fatigued and overpowered. As swami used to say, our linemen look like they're playing on roller skates. We need to win in the trenches and we lost in the trenches much of the time.
To evaluate an S&C coach after one year is just not fair. You don't undo years of neglect in one year. The problem wasn't so much the prior S&C program, but the intensity by which it was carried out. Had Schiano remained, this team would have been in much better shape.
But we are comparing this years team under Ash and Parker to last years team under Flood and Cole. The talent, especially in the trenches did not change much. So one would expect that if Parker was phenomenal compared to Cole's mediocre, we would have seen a noticeable improvement. Instead we lost 2 more games then last year.
Parker walked in here and said the kids looked unfed and sickly. So look no further then the guys in charge in terms of questioning previous S&C's. And that was more then mere questioning, that was about as harsh as you can get.
And imo, when you say something like that, I do expect some pretty immediate results.
On a similar note, Ash said this shortly after taking the job.
“I’m not here to judge what happened. I don’t really care. But I know this: I watched film on Rutgers last season, when I was sitting at Ohio State, and what I saw on film was a team that quit. When they were faced with adversity, they quit. That tells you there’s a problem. There’s a problem with the way they were trained, there’s a problem with the way they behaved, what they believe."
So both Ash and Parker came in here, trashed the previous coaches, and then coached this team up to a worse record on the field. And I don't know, but I think there were a couple games this season in which it could be said we didn't play a full 60 minutes of football.
“I’m not here to judge what happened. I don’t really care. But I know this: I watched film on Rutgers last season, when I was sitting at Ohio State, and what I saw on film was a team that quit. When they were faced with adversity, they quit. That tells you there’s a problem. There’s a problem with the way they were trained, there’s a problem with the way they behaved, what they believe."
So both Ash and Parker came in here, trashed the previous coaches, and then coached this team up to a worse record on the field. And I don't know, but I think there were a couple games this season in which it could be said we didn't play a full 60 minutes of football.
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