Another Former RU Coach

[Riderbronc]

Did not notice anyone sharing this, ESPN is reporting Craig LIttlepage is retiring as AD at Virginia.
Another coach who looked good on paper but could not get the job done at RU.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...iers-ad-craig-littlepage-announces-retirement

 

[djrc89]

500 coach at penn before coming here. I wonder what our record was and where we would have been nationally over the decade preceding his hire. Smart man. Good guy. Bad bad coach.

 

[Mr_Twister]

We have the right one now. Out of curiosity, who was on Littlepage's staff?

 

[jellyman]

500 coach at penn before coming here. I wonder what our record was and where we would have been nationally over the decade preceding his hire. Smart man. Good guy. Bad bad coach.

And a very good Adminstrative guy - a fine Assistant Ad and Ad.

I had a close friend who was a U of Penn grad and fan, and when RU hired Littlepage, he called me to thank me for RU taking Littlepage away from Penn.

Littlepage's main credentials was that he was credited with recruiting Ralph Sampson to UVA. Other than that he did not really have a ton of coaching credentials.

 

[ruman]

He did not look good on paper - should have hired Tom Penders who was at Fordham

 

[RU85inFla]

500 coach at penn before coming here. I wonder what our record was and where we would have been nationally over the decade preceding his hire. Smart man. Good guy. Bad bad coach.

Before Littlepage Tom Young was the coach. 8 years prior we were final 4. We were slipping when Littlepage was hired because of the Big East success with us looking in.

 

[80RU]

We have the right one now. Out of curiosity, who was on Littlepage's staff?

If I remember correctly, two of their names were Hagerty and Crowley and they were both big five contemporaries of Littlepaige. While I might be off on their names and bios (it has been a long time), I distinctly remember how defensive and arrogant they were when they did the post game interviews.

 

[TDIrish27]

I'll be kind and call his record at UVA modest.

Football Program was rolling when George Welch had it and has been mediocre to poor since.

Hoops finally got straightened out when Bennett got there but Jones was a bad hire.

 

[Mr_Twister]

March 16, 1988 New York Times note ...

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/16/sports/sports-people-littlepage-dismissed.html

After three seasons in which his teams won 23 games and lost 63, Craig Littlepage was dismissed yesterday as basketball coach at Rutgers. Littlepage, who is 36 years old, moved to Rutgers in 1985 from Penn, his alma mater. ''We appreciate the special effort and commitment that Craig Littlepage has put into the Rutgers basketball program,'' said Fred Gruninger, the athletic director. ''The progress of the program was substantially below reasonable expectations for the time Coach Littlepage has been with the university. Where we are today is not where we want to be. And we'll have to move on.''

Of course, the opportunists among us used Littlepage's dismissal to upgrade our seat locations at the RAC.

 

[RUChow]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

 

[Sideline20]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

Yes we should have reasonably expected 18 wins in 3 seasons. He did a decent job considering what he had. What??!!!!

 

[NJDOVES]

March 16, 1988 New York Times note ...

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/03/16/sports/sports-people-littlepage-dismissed.html

After three seasons in which his teams won 23 games and lost 63, Craig Littlepage was dismissed yesterday as basketball coach at Rutgers. Littlepage, who is 36 years old, moved to Rutgers in 1985 from Penn, his alma mater. ''We appreciate the special effort and commitment that Craig Littlepage has put into the Rutgers basketball program,'' said Fred Gruninger, the athletic director. ''The progress of the program was substantially below reasonable expectations for the time Coach Littlepage has been with the university. Where we are today is not where we want to be. And we'll have to move on.''

Of course, the opportunists among us used Littlepage's dismissal to upgrade our seat locations at the RAC.[/QUOTE

Well, it's really hard to say which was WORST, Littlepage or Gruninger! Well let's just say they both sucked big time- Ok, I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean... they were both inept!

 

[80RU]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

You are just kidding -- aren't you?

 

[LotusAggressor]

Looked good on paper?

 

[Unionst]

He and Dick Anderson were the two most boring interviews on earth. Ugh.

 

[rutger80]

And a very good Adminstrative guy - a fine Assistant Ad and Ad.

I had a close friend who was a U of Penn grad and fan, and when RU hired Littlepage, he called me to thank me for RU taking Littlepage away from Penn.

Littlepage's main credentials was that he was credited with recruiting Ralph Sampson to UVA. Other than that he did not really have a ton of coaching credentials.

Supposedly Littlepage claimed he was the main recruiter for Sampson, but I believe Jim Larranaga was on the staff at the time as well.
I also had the same experience of having a Penn fan offering condolences in advance.

Littlepage may have been the worst RU coach ever in a major sport. Yes, that includes Shea and Jordan.

 

[MSRU71]

Worst in my 50 years of unwavering support of RU BB. Best thing about going to the Littlepage era games was that they usually were a part of a Women's BB double header, and those Lady Knights were fantastic. Sue Wicks controlled the games. The Ladies played first, and the men were so bad that everyone was gone by the second half. They actually reversed the order and had the women play second, so there would be some folks in the stands for the men in the unlikely event they were still in the game and would have some support.

Best thing about the Littlepage era was I fell in love with RU Women's Hoops.

 

[Sideline20]

If I remember correctly, two of their names were Hagerty and Crowley and they were both big five contemporaries of Littlepaige. While I might be off on their names and bios (it has been a long time), I distinctly remember how defensive and arrogant they were when they did the post game interviews.

Tom Crowley (Penn), Tom Haggerty (St. Joe's), Gene Neiberlein (part -time holdover from Young - Rutgers), Mo Layton (part time - USC), Bill Kilduff (GA)

 

[knight82]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

Yet Bob Wenzel took the same group of players that went 7-22 under Littlepage and took them to the NCAA Tournament the following year.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

In the history of this forum ...this may be the stupidest, most idiotic, riddicoilous comment ever made on this forum

And, yes, I sat through EVERY home game of the littlepage error ....

 

[80RU]

Tom Crowley (Penn), Tom Haggerty (St. Joe's), Gene Neiberlein (part -time holdover from Young - Rutgers), Mo Layton (part time - USC), Bill Kilduff (GA)

Is your recollection about the post game interviews similar to mine?

 

[jellyman]

In the history of this forum ...this may be the stupidest, most idiotic, riddicoilous comment ever made on this forum

And, yes, I sat through EVERY home game of the littlepage error ....

Might he be referring to Littlepage's job as Assistant AD and AD at Virginia, rather than his job at RU?

Littlepage inherited a mediocre team from Tom Young - a team that had gone just about .500 in each of the prior 2 seasons. And RU did graduate Battle, Remley and Ellerbee. But he also inherited some real talent - at least by A-10 standards - including the best returning offensive post player in the A-10, in Lloyd Moore, and a budding scoring star WF in Riggins, plus a promising young hustle PF in Zucker. He also had reasonable role players like the prior year's back-up PG (Steve Brown), Daryl Campbell. He brought in 2 decent freshmen, in Duckett and Dadika, and 1 role player freshman, in Emory Ward, as well as role player athlete Myles Dixon. But he proceeded to drive Moore off the team ... I actually saw some practices, and it was disgraceful how Littlepage treated Moore - and at games also ... nearly as bad as anything Mike Rice did (though without the throwing of the ball).

And in the end, Littlepage brought in very little talent, as well as driving away Moore, and his poor development of players.

 

[rubaseball78]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

You must have thought you clicked on a Flood thread by that comment.

 

[Sideline20]

Is your recollection about the post game interviews similar to mine?

Yes. Arrogant.

I actually heard one of the assistants yell to a player "don't anticipate". The only time I can ever remember that guidance coming from a bench in any sport. The coaching staff was clueless. My first court club meeting was littlepage's last. I went to the pines manor to see what these coaches were actually thinking about. I thought that maybe I could do a "case study".....lol.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Might he be referring to Littlepage's job as Assistant AD and AD at Virginia, rather than his job at RU?

Littlepage inherited a mediocre team from Tom Young - a team that had gone just about .500 in each of the prior 2 seasons. And RU did graduate Battle, Remley and Ellerbee. But he also inherited some real talent - at least by A-10 standards - including the best returning offensive post player in the A-10, in Lloyd Moore, and a budding scoring star WF in Riggins, plus a promising young hustle PF in Zucker. He also had reasonable role players like the prior year's back-up PG (Steve Brown), Daryl Campbell. He brought in 2 decent freshmen, in Duckett and Dadika, and 1 role player freshman, in Emory Ward, as well as role player athlete Myles Dixon. But he proceeded to drive Moore off the team ... I actually saw some practices, and it was disgraceful how Littlepage treated Moore - and at games also ... nearly as bad as anything Mike Rice did (though without the throwing of the ball).

And in the end, Littlepage brought in very little talent, as well as driving away Moore, and his poor development of players.

the comment was refered to lttitlepage doing a decent job coaching what he had

By the way...Tom young signed those four players (dadika, Duckett, Ward, and Myles Dixon) that were also seniors and 4th year juniors on Wenzel's first NCAA team

The only players that Littlepage signed that actually made it Coach Wenzel's first team was Craig Carter from Bronx Science, Lee Perry from freehold, Tom Everson from Long Island, and Transfer Tom Savage from Ewing through va tech

And what Littlepage did to Lloyd Moore was a disgrace. He was a good kid, and a couple of years later, on his own dime, came back and got his degree on his own from RU

 

[ruman]

Yes. Arrogant.

I actually heard one of the assistants yell to a player "don't anticipate". The only time I can ever remember that guidance coming from a bench in any sport. The coaching staff was clueless. My first court club meeting was littlepage's last. I went to the pines manor to see what these coaches were actually thinking about. I thought that maybe I could do a "case study".....lol.

Impressed that you guys remember this. I stopped listening to and attending games half way through the first season of the Littlepage era

 

[RU1-Newtown_ Pa]

I remember sitting with Sideline 20 for a basketball game at the end of the 1988 season behind the bench.

Forget who they were playing but that day in the Trenton Times above the fold in the sports section Harvey Yavener broke a story that Littlepage would be fired after the A-10 tourney.

At the first timeout, I opened up the sports section so the players could see the bold headline.

Emory Ward got a chuckle.

 

[80RU]

I had a nice talk with Emory Ward after his senior season completed. He did have some interesting words about Littlepaige. Ward was a great guy by the way. His swagger on the court turned to a gracious and humble demeanor off the court.

 

[knights1212]

Littlepage ruined our team and Lloyd Moore. Lloyd was a Street & Smith All American in the top 15 or 20 players in the country. He averaged 8.2 ppg for our 1984-85 team that went 16-14. He was hefty but the following year Littlepage demanded that he hit a weight limit which he didn't make. Littlepage kicked him off the team and we never recovered. I think he did play a few games that 1985-86 season but we could have used Lloyd. I still have an interview of Lloyd from halftime of a game at the RAC during the 1983-84 season while he was sitting out as a transfer. I would like to see it again but it is on an old beta tape and I don't have a working beta vcr anymore. I do remember how anxious I was to see him play since he was rated so high out of high school. As I recall he transferred after a year at Marquette.

 

[willisneverrana43]

What papers were these?

 

[80RU]

Littlepage ruined our team and Lloyd Moore. Lloyd was a Street & Smith All American in the top 15 or 20 players in the country. He averaged 8.2 ppg for our 1984-85 team that went 16-14. He was hefty but the following year Littlepage demanded that he hit a weight limit which he didn't make. Littlepage kicked him off the team and we never recovered. I think he did play a few games that 1985-86 season but we could have used Lloyd. I still have an interview of Lloyd from halftime of a game at the RAC during the 1983-84 season while he was sitting out as a transfer. I would like to see it again but it is on an old beta tape and I don't have a working beta vcr anymore. I do remember how anxious I was to see him play since he was rated so high out of high school. As I recall he transferred after a year at Marquette.

He actually did play a full year for Littlepaige and was kicked off the team prior to the following year. I can understand why they wanted him to lose weight, especially in light of his knee issues, but dismissing him from the team was crazy. I don't think anyone would deny that he was a bit overrated coming out of high school, but he was still a solid A-10 center. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/lloyd-moore-1.html

A lot of people forget that 'Paige also inherited Bailey Alston, who got a few starts his freshman year. I remember he had a great career at Liberty and I wondered why he left. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bailey-alston-1.html

 

[RUJMM78]

Worst in my 50 years of unwavering support of RU BB. Best thing about going to the Littlepage era games was that they usually were a part of a Women's BB double header, and those Lady Knights were fantastic. Sue Wicks controlled the games. The Ladies played first, and the men were so bad that everyone was gone by the second half. They actually reversed the order and had the women play second, so there would be some folks in the stands for the men in the unlikely event they were still in the game and would have some support.

Best thing about the Littlepage era was I fell in love with RU Women's Hoops.

Fans with paper bags over their heads expressing disgust was my lasting memory of the Littlepage tenure.

 

[BoroKnight]

Yet Bob Wenzel took the same group of players that went 7-22 under Littlepage and took them to the NCAA Tournament the following year.

Funny thing was it wasn't even that much of an improved team, a 15-12 regular season in a god-awful conference. But it sure was fun to watch in the second half of the season, wasn't it?

But that just goes to show how little it would have taken Craig "Blank" Page to be at least .500. The A-10 was horrible back then. Before UMass got good (and the less said about that the better), before GW got good. It was basically John Chaney and Gale Catlett and a cast of clowns.

Littlepage was brought in at an awful time in a program in far worse shape than we realized. We were barely .500 the past two years before that, basically because Young could coach. He didn't need a Van Gundy on his bench to help coach, he needed a recruiting wizard next to him to get him players, which were hard to get once the Big East got traction. In retrospect, asking Joe Boylan to be an interim coach and doing a real search after the season would have been the way to go, but Rutgers back then probably would have botched that, too.

A 40-39 coach in the Ivy League is not going to come in here and get people fired up and captivate recruits and the fan base. You hire someone like that to maintain something, not build it. We needed a builder, and I don't think any of us realized how bad it was.

And yet, Craig made it worse. A very good guy -- and I mean a VERY good guy (who absolutely hated my guts, but that's neither here nor there) -- but hopelessly out of place at that time with this program.

 

[80RU]

Funny thing was it wasn't even that much of an improved team, a 15-12 regular season in a god-awful conference. But it sure was fun to watch in the second half of the season, wasn't it?

But that just goes to show how little it would have taken Craig "Blank" Page to be at least .500. The A-10 was horrible back then. Before UMass got good (and the less said about that the better), before GW got good. It was basically John Chaney and Gale Catlett and a cast of clowns.

Littlepage was brought in at an awful time in a program in far worse shape than we realized. We were barely .500 the past two years before that, basically because Young could coach. He didn't need a Van Gundy on his bench to help coach, he needed a recruiting wizard next to him to get him players, which were hard to get once the Big East got traction. In retrospect, asking Joe Boylan to be an interim coach and doing a real search after the season would have been the way to go, but Rutgers back then probably would have botched that, too.

A 40-39 coach in the Ivy League is not going to come in here and get people fired up and captivate recruits and the fan base. You hire someone like that to maintain something, not build it. We needed a builder, and I don't think any of us realized how bad it was.

And yet, Craig made it worse. A very good guy -- and I mean a VERY good guy (who absolutely hated my guts, but that's neither here nor there) -- but hopelessly out of place at that time with this program.

I disagree with your analysis in a couple of respects. Don't forget that Rhode Island was also a sweet 16 team during that time. (And it took some creative officiating to get Duke in to the final eight rather than Rhode Island.) The league was not good, but not that bad according to whatever computer program they were using at the time.

The reason that 'Paige's teams were so bad in the league was that he played away from his team's only strength – – their athleticism. There was enough talent to have been middle of the pack in that league. Wenzel recognized that immediately, cultivated it and saw it pay off as the season went on.

I still remember that when they were sitting at 10–12 I saw one of the old WRSU guys at a deposition. I took out a piece of paper and accurately wrote down the results for the rest of the year, and the results of every game in the A-10 tournament. You could see how they were trending, as they learned to play without the 'Paige shackles. What was left from Tom Young was not that awful, it was just mishandled so what should have been mediocre was turned to bad.

And finally, my impression was that he was not such a great guy. My impression was that he was aloof. And while he was not as arrogant as his two top assistants, he had a bit of an attitude himself.

 

[djrc89]

Love this thread and how dare any of undenigrate the great jerry gimelstob or the incomparable Ron de carli. Wenzel had savage come in. He couldn't have succeeded without him. And it was obvious pretty early that the 89 team had heart. Sherman Douglas giving the crowd the finger and the double ot loss to northwestern at the rac in December 88. What a year

 

[LotusAggressor]

Thought he did a decent job considering what he had.

On what planet is 23 wins in 3 years decent in basketball?

 

[80RU]

Love this thread and how dare any of undenigrate the great jerry gimelstob or the incomparable Ron de carli. Wenzel had savage come in. He couldn't have succeeded without him. And it was obvious pretty early that the 89 team had heart. Sherman Douglas giving the crowd the finger and the double ot loss to northwestern at the rac in December 88. What a year

'Paige did have Savage the year before.

I don't remember the Sherman Douglass finger, but I still remember the Dale Shakleford finger a almost 10 years before when RU beat SU at home in the ECAC game of the week -- great moment and the loudest I ever heard the RAC.

I do remember the NW game --- it was not OT, but I agree it was an important moment. It was a gritty comeback that fell short, but many of us stood and applauded the effort because we had not seen it for three years -- I agree that at that moment we could see things would be different that year, even if it did not show up in wins and losses.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Actually ..there were four or five key moments in the A-10 run of 88-89

-the loss to St. John's in the meadowlands by a basket ...sign that we really could play

-the one point loss at the RAC to 15th ranked West Virginia when Craig's shot bounced off the rim and could have went. That left us 8-11, but very hungry

-the win at the RAC over temple and Mark Macon to make us 13-12....that was the win that got us over the hump that we could WiN against the Quality opponents. TV got a close up with bob Wenzel telling the official f u when he got T'd up

-then following the win up with wins over st Bonnie and Rhode Island on the road give us confidence that we could win and bring it away from the RAC

 

[Virginiarufan]

I met Fred Gruninger in a hotel lobby once and he was a nice guy. We got to talking about Terry Schea and I asked why he didn't get rid of him after it was obvious he had no business coaching at Rutgers. All he could say was that Schea came highly recommended by Coach Walsh in San Francisco.
I don't know who recommended Littlepage but Gruninger was responsible for two of the three worst hires in the history of RU. Thankfully, that part of our history is over.

 

[73CAV]

I'll be kind and call his record at UVA modest.

Football Program was rolling when George Welch had it and has been mediocre to poor since.

Hoops finally got straightened out when Bennett got there but Jones was a bad hire.

Actually, Littlepage's record at UVa is far from modest, IMO. First, football was in decline during Welsh's last years. Groh managed to breathe some life into it, but he did so by recruiting too many kids that weren't prepared for the academics. Attrition decimated his final squads. London raised the academic standard, but continued to lose games. It will be interesting to see if UVa has another winning season in football before PTE puts an end to college football. Everywhere else, Littlepage has been quite successful. During his tenure, Virginia has won 13 NCAA team championships (second in the conference only to UNC) and 64 ACC championships (since the initial round of expansions), more than anyone else. Finally, in the Director's Cup finals, UVa is consistently near the top. Last year's 19th place represented a 'down year' during Littlepage's time on the job. IMO, that is hardly modest, unless you think intercollegiate athletics consist of just football and basketball.