Allow what? What did Schiano do that affected other sports? You make zero sense. And your comments sound like you don't know any of them.
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Another Schiano Thread (yes, there's mutual interest according to my sources)...
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I gather you work in an industry filled with inexperience and/or incompetence, because most (all, maybe) of the highly competent people I know do not like being micromanaged. Highly competent people usually produce excellent results with a minimum of direction and oversight. Highly competent people generally want the results of their work to be appreciated and shared, but that has very little to do with their day to day work being micromanaged.
The only place I've seen micromanaging be effective, in any way, is with very inexperienced people, who need lots of guidance and oversight until they know their jobs well enough, or with fairly incompetent people who can't be trusted to do their jobs well. The latter either need to improve (if, for example, the issue might be motivational and not due to actual competence) or find a job they can be competent in.
well, young players need lots of guidance... so a micromanager is good, correct?
Based on the potential candidate list thrown around I am all in on Schiano, but we know his ceiling. While we would kill for that ceiling now, eventually we are going to want more.
Well said. Our philosophy in our LLC is to provide a work environment with plenty of work and plenty of freedom for employees to complete their work. We rarely have to "manage" our employees. I am the managing member of our LLC, but I freely tell people that I spend very little time managing, other than my own time management. It helps that we have fantastic and dedicated employees.
LOL - there is a reason they say those who can do, those who can’t teach (or work for the government). :Wink: With a few rare exceptions :Laughing
Agree. In fact , I think we need schiano back to convince the coaching pool that this is not a dead end job. And when schiano succeeds, we need him to take the next step to prove it even more.
His post was mostly about work, which normally has many more experienced, competent people, at least where I work. Inexperienced people learning a host of new information, including very specific instructions on how to do their jobs, can definitely benefit from some level of micromanagement. And yes, that would include football players, but probably not all football players, i.e., at some point very good players know the playbook and can see things about their opponents from film and tendencies and figure out how to respond with minimal oversight.
Of course - In a high functioning work place micro-managing is not needed nor appropriate. Schiano one was not dealing with a high functional workplace and unfortunately a potential Schiano two will not dealing with a high functioning workplace - that is why he is needed.
Quite the opposite. A full range, including issues that are mundane and those of national importance carried out by all levels of sophistication and experience.
Micromanaging means being aware of every detail that matters and setting the pace. It is not synonymous with being a jerk or of legislating on details that are of no importance.
On an unrelated note, If I was to guess that you were an engineer would I be wrong? That seems to be one of the occupations most Often crying out that there are micro managers impeding them
In any event if one was to believe that being a micromanager was a bad traait for a football coach, especially one that is needed at this tenure time for Rutgers, I would only say that I could not disagree more
Yes and no, IMO. My guess is his micromanaging approach worked well with young players who needed it and even with inexperienced coaches. But reportedly Schiano was kind of a "one tool" kind of guy, who was known for micromanaging everyone and that can be counterproductive, especially with highly competent, motivated coaches and very experienced upperclassmen.
I would imagine they bristled under micromanagement and eventually either tuned him out or left or became a bit demotivated because he probably didn't trust/delegate enough. That was one of the key areas he said he learned about himself in the Thamel article, so hopefully, he'll be more apt to use the right tool for the right situation if he has a 2nd go round here.
I know it's possible for leaders/managers to change in this dimension, because I did - in my early days as a manager I was much more likely to micromanage, because I was probably less secure in my own role and felt I had to do it to make sure things went right. After receiving some pointed feedback on that, I worked hard to apply micromanaging to the appropriate situation (I learned a ton from a situational leadership course I took in the late 90s), but to delegate and trust the more experienced, competent folks on my staff (with excellent feedback from them). People have to be open to constructive feedback to learn, though.
Guys like Belichick, Meyer and Saban are complete micro-managers. I think what people miss is that in an industry, like football, or theater or military operations etc., where there are a million moving parts (10 different units) that need to work precisely together that micro-managing is necessary.
How you micro-manage is up for debate and maybe Schiano was a bit of a prick vs others but micro managing is integral in college and professional football.
How you micro-manage is up for debate and maybe Schiano was a bit of a prick vs others but micro managing is integral in college and professional football.
I believe the conversation was in the context of Rutgers football not a private enterprise. For Rutgers football i’ll take the “micromanager” within reason and applied in the appropriate areas any day. Generally speaking not a fan.
Things really sucked when Schiano was “AD.”
Remember winning seasons in Men’s Basketball, getting out of the second round in Women’s Basketball, making the NCAA’s in Lacrosse? I could keep going on and on and on, but none of them have happened since he left.
Much like football, Schiano was the worst thing to ever happen to Rutgers Athletics.
I'm trying to figure out why the program needs to be micro managed? That may have been the only thing Ash did right...
If Greg is going to be successful, he needs to learn to be a true CEO and there isn't a CEO worth a damn that micro manages...You really do lose focus on important things.
If Greg is going to be successful, he needs to learn to be a true CEO and there isn't a CEO worth a damn that micro manages...You really do lose focus on important things.
Well if Greg controlled the field crew he wouldn’t have cleaned the sideline so tavon Austin could singlehandledly beat us.
Got it. Was following up on the posts of #s and letitrip. But as to a State organization, and especially Rutgers, micromanagement is likely necessary.
More than anyone, Schiano has seen the absolute best of this fanbase and attention of the NYC media firsthand. It would be hard for any outsider to believe just how rabid this fanbase was at one time in 2005 and 2006.
Kyle motherloving Flood was 3-1 against Indiana/Maryland, and just 5 points short of being 4-0.
I’d love to have Schiano back, but any halfway decent coach will keep us out of the conference basement. Don’t let the damage Ash has done to the program reset your expectations too far downward.
My guess is we're talking past each other a bit and are probably more aligned than not aligned. To me the key part in your post is "being aware of every detail that matters." And in that, the details that "matter" depend greatly on the situation. I think most of us (and certainly me) are assuming that a "micromanager" is someone who is often/usually kind of an overbearing jerk, who is often focusing on details that really don't matter and often being a dick about pointing out failures, rather than trying to coach/teach to prevent future failures. The details that are relevant to a CEO are far different from those that are relevant to a department head, which in turn are far different from those that are relevant to a first line manager.
In football, if we take the head coach to be the CEO of the team, he can't be aware of every detail of every player's performance, nutrition, grades, etc., because knowing all of those details is simply impossible and more importantly, unnecessary to do his job well. He does need to trust that his coordinators and his position coaches (akin to first line managers) will alert him to issues in any of these areas, to which he then might respond (if the position coach's directions are ineffective). Yes, in football, a head coach is a lot "closer" to the players, organizationally, than a CEO is to workers in a large company, so he'll likely be tied in to more relevant day-to-day details than a CEO is, but the concept of not being an overbearing micromanager still applies.
We completely agree that being a jerk in any setting is likely counterproductive, although in small doses it can be an effective motivating tool, especially in highly regimented situations like sports or the military (I hated coaches like that, but I saw some players respond to it, from a macho, "I'll show you, you prick" perspective). I have rarely seen it be an effective tool in the work world, where people don't expect it or like it and rarely respond well to it. Different worlds.
And I didn't think it was any secret that I'm an engineer, but I also have managed/led cross-functional teams containing engineers, chemists, analysts, purchasing agents, financial specialists, union operators, mechanics, etc. And I've rarely seen anyone in any of these areas, who is highly competent, who likes being micromanaged in the sense I've discussed.
I was talking to a longtime NJ HS coach and AD today. He is friendly with Greg and very close friends with a longtime coach who was on Greg’s staff at RU and who still remains very close to him to this day. From what they’ve been told, Greg’s interest is waning.
Take it for what it’s worth. Because different sources who claim to be in touch with Greg himself are giving different reports on his level of interest.
Take it for what it’s worth. Because different sources who claim to be in touch with Greg himself are giving different reports on his level of interest.
The reasoning is what we are all concerned with-is it waning due to having to work with Someone who purportedly left him hanging and perhaps disrespected?
Or is it due to the rebuilding job being too much and not being interested?
It makes a difference.
Scary that Sargeant reports Hobbs is getting taken with Nunzio. Could not find someone more under Hobbs’ thumb than him if hired. Would show waasay more about Hobbs if there’s any kernel of truth to it, and none of it good.
I think you are jumping to an incorrect conclusion. I said "program" not "department". As in, micromanaging the football program. This is sorely needed.
I continue to think that the RU job is a very bad fit for Schiano. If I were advising him, I'd advise him to seek coaching employment elsewhere.
His career has gone backwards since leaving RU the first time. The RU job carries a lot of risk for any coach. And GS's career probably cannot survive another less than stellar result.
If he really wants to coach, he should find a less risky job to turn things around for himself in his career. A job that boosts his image - not a job that risks tarnishing it forever.
I do want GS here.
I think his issues at Ohio State had to do with those players having big heads. That is, GS teaches assignment D.. you do your assignment PERIOD. I do not think stars (particularly defensive players who REACT to what they see) want to hear that. They have largely gotten by on their natural and developed athletic abilities.
That's my take.. same with the NFL players.. the best of the best.. they do not want to be controlled. They think that is "small time".. and in Tampa, the local media rely on access to players and the echoed what the players told them.. played up to them.
I do not think GS will face either issue here... we simply do not get enough stars. And the players GS will bring here.. will accept the offer because GS produces NFL players. They will be hungry and they will listen to him.
Someday.. I hope stars giving him grief are a real problem here.
I think his issues at Ohio State had to do with those players having big heads. That is, GS teaches assignment D.. you do your assignment PERIOD. I do not think stars (particularly defensive players who REACT to what they see) want to hear that. They have largely gotten by on their natural and developed athletic abilities.
That's my take.. same with the NFL players.. the best of the best.. they do not want to be controlled. They think that is "small time".. and in Tampa, the local media rely on access to players and the echoed what the players told them.. played up to them.
I do not think GS will face either issue here... we simply do not get enough stars. And the players GS will bring here.. will accept the offer because GS produces NFL players. They will be hungry and they will listen to him.
Someday.. I hope stars giving him grief are a real problem here.
Theres a reason schianos guys lasted longer in the NFL than even blue chip programs. Hes meticulous and disciplined and instills this in his players. Probably tougher to convince a 5 star than a 2 or 3star who wants or needs an edge.
Two great punters and a pretty darn good kicker too.
Same for the long snapper and I don’t even know who the holder is, which when you think about it is a good thing.
We need that to be done while they are here because Saturday is helluva lot more important than Sunday.
Wait what? It's the players' fault? Seriously?
Ash, the guy we just fired, won a national championship with those same big headed players. How do you reconcile that fact w/your "it's not Schiano, it's the players' fault" theory?
:popcorn:
Through 6 games this season, the Buckeye defense has held teams on avg to a shade under 9 pts per game. In 2018, Schiano's defense through 6 games held teams on avg to 20 pts per game. The second half of the season is where the wheels really fell off, with a 49 pt drubbing by Purdue (PURDUE!) and a 52 - 51 OT win against Maryland. Schiano's defense through the final 7 games held teams on avg to 37 pts per game. Failure to adapt continues to be a concern.
Co-DCs.. and Co-OCs too.. that's OSU's style.
IMO, it the current Cinci head coach who gets credit for putting together the OSU NC defense.
After seeing what you got from Ash here.. you really think he deserves credit for a national championship team?
How many defenders came back for Schiano's year as co-DC? How many had gone to the NFL? Are you really blaming Schiano for OSU not making the playoffs and having a shot at the still-mythical NC?
I said what I said BECAUSE there was evidence of the players rejecting his coaching there. That was the "problem" I was referring to.
If you ask the fans or Meyer or even Schiano, I bet they’d all tell you Ash deserves credit for doing a great job at OSU. And yeah, considering it was defensive failures that led to Ohio State not getting to a NC, I am blaming Schiano.
yes.. if Schiano is installing an assignment defense and players do not do their assignments.. that's what happens. Players have to buy in.. they clearly did not. Head coach wasn't around much of that season... and he retired during it. Very young team on defense as well.
Of course you are blaming Schiano. Maybe his coaching last year positively affected the players for this year.. ever think that? Young guys with a year of experience under him where he could point out their failures?
I don't think GS forgot how to coach a defense. We saw that here at Rutgers and we also saw that GS trains his defense to execute his scheme.. PERIOD. Results in a given year do no matter to him. He had a very young team.. 3 returning starts iirc.. and injuries too. But he forced them to run his scheme.. and that resulted in big mistakes.. which, imo, they learned from.. Just like his early teams here learned from their mistakes.
Sciano's scheme demands a lot of CBs.s.. they are always out on islands and the safety has to back them up AND keep an eye out for wheel routes and TE seam routs. The other safety generally seems to favor run support. It is a tough defense to operate and those players were not up to the task... but hopefully they learned from it.
This current defense OSU is running.. looks great... its better athletes beating worse athletes. We'll have to see what happens when they face a team of equal athletes.. or, dare I say it, superior athletes.. and/or smarter coaches.
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