Another Schiano Thread (yes, there's mutual interest according to my sources)...
- Thread starter RU848789
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Schiano deserves to be credited for the good things that happened under his watch.
Building Rutgers into a respectable program from the joke it was.
Constant bowl invites after he made Rutgers a winning program.
Those are 2 of what he deserves credit for and there are more, but those can be considered the main ones if you want.
Blame also must be given for not winning the BE Championship and no BCS Bowls during his time as HC.
Those are two of the main complaints .
His 2018 OSU D ( #71Total Defense) needs to be put down as a black mark and there's no denying that D didn't play like a top program's D should.
But his 2016 (#9) and 2017 (#15) D weren't too shabby and should be considered before claiming how bad his tenure was at OSU.
There are those who will dwell on the good aspects of Greg's career and ignore the not so good part. Because they want him back
But that also is true for those who don't want him back and will point out the negative while glossing over the positive.
So before you praise look at the bad side and before you knock make sure you considered the good.
All in all Greg Schiano probably is one of the better choices among those who would take a chance of ruining their career by taking the RU FB HC position, if Rutgers pays like usually does when hiring a new HC.
But if Hobbs is given the green light to spend what it takes to bring in one of the candidate that is considered a catch that other programs will pay top dollar for, Schiano should be out of the running because what he did once was great but he's a big gamble in today's market .
Others with resumes that show success over a few years might be less of a gamble.
But those with just a short time looking good, might be just as big of a gamble and hiring retreads like Greg and like Butch Jones sound nice, but still long-shots if Rutgers doesn't financially support them in hiring staff along with upgrading some things that might need improvement to help recruit talent.
I know there are some that believe Rutgers will pay what it takes because they paid to dump their HC & OC.
I hope they're right.
But I'm not convinced RU will spend what it takes and feel they'll stay hiring on the cheap like they usually do and hope they guess right on the work for less candidates that are available to chose from
Again, to someone else's previous point, not if qualified assistants and coordinators are hired.
Go back and watch HBO's "24/7 College Football" episode on UF and observe how one of the top teams in the country operates.
Under Dan Mullen. From Mississippi State (had to get that in there).
Sure, you'll say "UF is an established program", but I say that doesn't matter. Programs are what you make of them. Mullen is a CEO. Schiano is a restaurant manager by comparison. He was 90% right for when he was here. Now, not so much. We have some money to spend and I'd like to spend it on a guy who really knows how to run a program. I don't want to spend it on a guy who is going to spend any measurable percentage of his time making sure the towels are folded properly.
was at the Subway and the guy in front of me had on a Brian Leonard jersey. is it a sign?
Current recruits and future recruits where toddlers or not even born when he had his glory years here. They are going to remember him as the guy that got fired from Tampa Bay after two years, the guy who's defense at Ohio State got worse everyone of the three years he was there. The guy who had his HC offer from Tennessee rescinded due to fan outrage and backlash, and the guy who was hired by the Patriot as their DC and resigned before ever coaching a game.
I'm still not sold on Schiano, tbh. I can see benefits in bringing him back, but he's nowhere near the slam dunk hire that some here feel he would be. That said, I'm not against his hire - I'm also not a cheerleader for it. I think it'd be a "safe" choice, but not a home run.
Just some random thoughts in no particular order.
Pros:
- Familiarity with Rutgers: He knows the school and how the school politics work.
- Familiarity with NJ: He is from here, and he had a successful coaching stint here
- NJ/Fan familiarity with him: He's got name recognition among fans/coaches/parents, and would be a comfortable selection for many
- Ticket sales: Because of the fan familiarity and nostalgia, ticket sales would tick up immediately for the first couple of years.
- Familiarity with recruiting: He already knows the schools and many of the coaches, and already has in-built recruiting ties
- Better facilities/conference: His success last time was with much worse facilities and a much worse conference perception - now that he's got better facilities and marquee matchups to sell, will this give him more of an edge with recruits than last time?
- Experience: He's seen a lot over the course of his resume, and probably has more experience than almost any other candidate
- Attention to detail: He doesn't miss small things, and he works very hard to make even the smallest parts of the watch click smoothly
- Defense: His defenses here were very good, and he had two years of very good defenses at OSU. And Belichick apparently wanted him to run the Pats defense, too.
- Specials: His focus on special teams, and kick blocking, has been sorely lacking in recent years
- Program builder: He built us up from basically nothing, and we're in dire need of a rebuild again.
- National attention: His hiring would make national press, and could immediately improve the visibility of the program. Of course, it would also dredge up a ton of stories about Tennessee, Penn State, and crashing the victory formation at TB - but I still think this would be a positive on balance.
Cons
- Different circumstances: He benefited a LOT from outside factors last time he was here, which are almost certainly not going to repeat themselves. How would he have fared in the Big East had Miami/VTech never left and Pasqualoni not been fired?
- The game has changed: Player freedoms are light years away from where they were, and he hasn't been a HC in this era of player-decided redshirting and the portal. Social media has changed, offenses have changed... a lot is different than his 1.0 run as a college HC
- Stiffer competition: The current B1G is MUCH more difficult than the Big East was, even before Miami/VTech left - especially in the East. His record vs. ranked teams wasn't stellar, and we no longer have the FCS tune-up games that he had from 2005-11. Our best overall team while he was here in 2006 would have arguably gone 8-4 with the level of competition we've seen in the B1G.
- Winning the "big game": A frequent knock on Schiano during his time here was not getting us to the next level, where we'd win the clutch game to sew up the conference championship. With more "big games" on the schedule, how does this play out?
- Recruiting: Even his best recruiting classes at Rutgers would have been bottom half in the B1G East, and his average (even from 2006-11) would have been bottom third of the conference. He'd not only need to get us back to our recruiting level in our heyday, but then recruit better than he ever did before as a HC. And there's more competition for recruits in FL, and fewer under-recruited guys because of the rise of rating services.
- Fan expectations: He'll almost certainly fail to meet the lofty expectations many fans will lay on him, which will make him a disappointment to many. If he isn't back to 8+ win seasons in 3 years, people will almost certainly start to sour on him and ticket sales will stall.
- Press/scout relationships: His antagonism toward the press and scouts did him no favors while here. Hopefully he's learned to handle this better in his time away.
- Micromanagement of assistants: Can he hire a strong OC and let them run an offense? Or will he continue the carousel of rotating OCs that he keeps under his thumb, using the offense in large part as an extension of the defense?
- Offense/QB: He preferred game managers with a strong running game - but does that work in today's game? We hardly ever put up a ton of points while he was here (aside from half a season with Teel/Britt/Underwood), and red zone offense wasn't our strength
- Hunger: When he was first here, he was a new HC trying to make a name for himself by wringing success out of a flagging program. At a much later stage of his career, does he have the same fire? The effort would be geared more toward redeeming than establishing.
Just some random thoughts in no particular order.
Pros:
- Familiarity with Rutgers: He knows the school and how the school politics work.
- Familiarity with NJ: He is from here, and he had a successful coaching stint here
- NJ/Fan familiarity with him: He's got name recognition among fans/coaches/parents, and would be a comfortable selection for many
- Ticket sales: Because of the fan familiarity and nostalgia, ticket sales would tick up immediately for the first couple of years.
- Familiarity with recruiting: He already knows the schools and many of the coaches, and already has in-built recruiting ties
- Better facilities/conference: His success last time was with much worse facilities and a much worse conference perception - now that he's got better facilities and marquee matchups to sell, will this give him more of an edge with recruits than last time?
- Experience: He's seen a lot over the course of his resume, and probably has more experience than almost any other candidate
- Attention to detail: He doesn't miss small things, and he works very hard to make even the smallest parts of the watch click smoothly
- Defense: His defenses here were very good, and he had two years of very good defenses at OSU. And Belichick apparently wanted him to run the Pats defense, too.
- Specials: His focus on special teams, and kick blocking, has been sorely lacking in recent years
- Program builder: He built us up from basically nothing, and we're in dire need of a rebuild again.
- National attention: His hiring would make national press, and could immediately improve the visibility of the program. Of course, it would also dredge up a ton of stories about Tennessee, Penn State, and crashing the victory formation at TB - but I still think this would be a positive on balance.
Cons
- Different circumstances: He benefited a LOT from outside factors last time he was here, which are almost certainly not going to repeat themselves. How would he have fared in the Big East had Miami/VTech never left and Pasqualoni not been fired?
- The game has changed: Player freedoms are light years away from where they were, and he hasn't been a HC in this era of player-decided redshirting and the portal. Social media has changed, offenses have changed... a lot is different than his 1.0 run as a college HC
- Stiffer competition: The current B1G is MUCH more difficult than the Big East was, even before Miami/VTech left - especially in the East. His record vs. ranked teams wasn't stellar, and we no longer have the FCS tune-up games that he had from 2005-11. Our best overall team while he was here in 2006 would have arguably gone 8-4 with the level of competition we've seen in the B1G.
- Winning the "big game": A frequent knock on Schiano during his time here was not getting us to the next level, where we'd win the clutch game to sew up the conference championship. With more "big games" on the schedule, how does this play out?
- Recruiting: Even his best recruiting classes at Rutgers would have been bottom half in the B1G East, and his average (even from 2006-11) would have been bottom third of the conference. He'd not only need to get us back to our recruiting level in our heyday, but then recruit better than he ever did before as a HC. And there's more competition for recruits in FL, and fewer under-recruited guys because of the rise of rating services.
- Fan expectations: He'll almost certainly fail to meet the lofty expectations many fans will lay on him, which will make him a disappointment to many. If he isn't back to 8+ win seasons in 3 years, people will almost certainly start to sour on him and ticket sales will stall.
- Press/scout relationships: His antagonism toward the press and scouts did him no favors while here. Hopefully he's learned to handle this better in his time away.
- Micromanagement of assistants: Can he hire a strong OC and let them run an offense? Or will he continue the carousel of rotating OCs that he keeps under his thumb, using the offense in large part as an extension of the defense?
- Offense/QB: He preferred game managers with a strong running game - but does that work in today's game? We hardly ever put up a ton of points while he was here (aside from half a season with Teel/Britt/Underwood), and red zone offense wasn't our strength
- Hunger: When he was first here, he was a new HC trying to make a name for himself by wringing success out of a flagging program. At a much later stage of his career, does he have the same fire? The effort would be geared more toward redeeming than establishing.
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This is so clueless. UF and Rutgers are entirely different contexts. Dan Mullen ain’t touching this job with a 100’ pole. Do you know how many $50K contributing Bull Gators UF has? It’s a ton! That buys better coaches, better facilities, and ultimately a better stadium environment. UF is Peter Lugars whereas Rutgers is McDonalds.
Nevertheless, Schianos recruiting transcends Rutgers reputation, which is why Schiano was able to beat UF for players like Darius Hamilton, Jeremy Zuttah, Anthony Davis, and Savin Huggins. Despite UF having much more to offer.
Who is going to come in here and recruit like Schiano? Who is going to sell seats like Schiano? Who is going to kick players in the ass like Schiano? Who knows what’s needed like Schiano? Who is going to make the effort like Schiano? The answer is NO ONE!
It would be so easy for Hobbs to pay millions to the wrong guy.
It disgusts me that we might be hiring someone that will spend at least the next year at the minimum to figure Rutgers out, when Schiano already has Rutgers figured out. 11 years of progress and institutional knowledge puts Schiano above everyone else. It took Chris Ash four years to figure out that he needed to recruit FL players to Rutgers, whereas Schiano would implement the correct strategy Day 1, if he gets the job.
Disagree. This program is in shambles. Even if the reincarnate of Bear Bryant becomes our coach, we will suck for 3-4 years. Our talent is that bad. This screams for a micromanaging dominate force of will to turn things around, just like Schiano did in the past. After we become respectable, sure, our coach should loosed his grip and adopt the UF model more. That would help build future success and I admit it is questionable on whether GS can do this or not. However, I'm not going to worry about Phase 2 right now. Phase 1 is way too daunting and difficult. That's our focus.
Awesome guess - the reference for my post was running a large state agency and from first hand knowledge. Unfortunately that type of management was often required.
Don't doubt it at all. I deal all day long with the Federal Government. Government efficiency!
One of the MOST FAMOUS speeches in American history was only 272 words. Abe’s Gettysburg Address.
Disagree. The football team is in shambles. The program is fine. It has funding, facilities and academic support. All things that didn't really exist when Schiano arrived. The job now is to recruit players and get them to play good football. That is, it is a pretty standard HC job. All the nonsense that surrounded the program when Schiano arrived the first time doesn't really exist any more, mostly thanks to Schiano.
Yes, we will suck for 3-4 years, but whoever comes in mostly just has to worry about the standard job of recruiting & coaching. Now, Schiano might still be the best option for that portion, but I simply don't see anything outside of the standard football HC duties needed right now.
"Program" means the football program. "Department" means the broader athletic operation. See my previous reply to Real. The entire football program is in shambles (talent, personnel, coaches, etc). I think we are splitting hairs a bit.
I don't follow why, if the football program is in shambles but the broader support systems are fine, that requires micromanagement. That just requires a guy who a can recruit and a staff that can coach. Hire good people and have a solid plan and you don't need to micromanage.
Micromanagement is required when you don't have the power to hire & fire as needed so you need to manage the hell out of a bunch of people who can't perform their jobs well. A college football HC has full control over his staff. Do a good job hiring people & communicating your plan and you don't need to micromanage,
It was concerning enough to OSU that Meyer first brought in a Co-DC, then Day decided not to retain him on staff.
Due to horrific recruiting which started with FLOOD and continued with Ash we basically have a FCS team playing in the Big Ten.
We are beyond Fvxked. Don't believe me , then just watch the games.
It is a total rebuild, but it should be easier than it was in 2000, since the facilities and money are a LOT BETTER now not to mention academic support, our conference and schedule, TV deal, etc.
We are beyond Fvxked. Don't believe me , then just watch the games.
It is a total rebuild, but it should be easier than it was in 2000, since the facilities and money are a LOT BETTER now not to mention academic support, our conference and schedule, TV deal, etc.
Don't understand why people fault Schiano for the way he Coached at Rutgers. It was what was needed. The only question is can Schiano adapt to what Rutgers needs now? Which feels like something in between our big east rebuild and establishing a "Michigan State" like program where on average we win the games we should win and are competitive in the games we shouldn't win.
Schiano has seen ALOT since his time at Rutgers and my heart feels like hes the best candidate if hes adapted. However my brain tells me we need young hungry coach who knows Jersey. Greggy is a safe pick, I just hope he has the hunger still
Schiano has seen ALOT since his time at Rutgers and my heart feels like hes the best candidate if hes adapted. However my brain tells me we need young hungry coach who knows Jersey. Greggy is a safe pick, I just hope he has the hunger still
There was a co-DC with both Ash and Schiano. I can think of two good reasons to do that.
First reason is that two heads are often better than one when evaluating opponents and drawing up schemes. Second reason is that one person can work from up in the booth while the other works from the sideline. Doubles the perspective and maintains direct communication to the players from a DC.
Seems like a great idea to me. Just need to exercise a little care when pairing them up. Would be counter-productive to pair up two people who work against each other. From a comment earlier in the thread, and based on his history, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Schiano and the other co-DC didn't work well together.
No, I know what he's saying, and he's right. The football program is fine. The facilities are adequate and / or improving, per the work that Pat has initiated. The support systems are good. It's the elements related to the on-field performance of the team that need work. We need a GOOD FOOTBALL COACH. We don't need a "program builder".
One of the most successful 1-AA coaches (retired now and shall remain nameless) was the ultimate CEO. He knew next to nothing about calling plays or really anything technical/tactical on O or D but he 1) always hired good coordinators and got out of their way and 2) was a great "face" for the program including the fact that he knew how to target and make big money donors feel appreciated.
Disagree. This program is in shambles.
I see an established, strong recruiting pipeline as a big part of a successful football program.
If true, then we need an established recruiter with a track record of success.
If so, then Greg Schiano is a great candidate for this job.
You're defining "the program" by nothing more than recruiting. That goes against the definition of "the program" as stipulated by multiple people on both sides of this debate.
Further, your claim that Greg Schiano is a "great candidate" because he is "an established recruiter with a track record of success" is fallacious.
Greg Schiano does not have "a track record of success". To make that claim requires a willful suspension of disbelief.
What is this subway reference? Never figured out the meaning but used to see it posted all the time.
“In the 14 drafts pre-Schiano, Rutgers had six players selected. In Schiano’s 11 years, 17 Scarlet Knights were drafted, including the first three first-round picks in school history. And a year after he left, seven of his recruits were taken in the 2013 draft.”
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/27/g...caneers-tennessee-penn-state-nfl-draft-column
Woopty-f*ckin' doo.
Yes, he had players drafted. The most of any other Rutgers coach, but certainly not at the top of the NCAA, over that same period.
Also - and I hate to be the one to break this to you - but the metric you've provided is not the measure of "success".
Let's review, shall we?
Greg Schiano was 1 game over .500 during his tenure here.
He skipped out, with no transition plan, for his "dream job" with the (*giggle*) Tampa Bay Buccaneers. A job at which he royally sucked, and from which he was fired.
He landed at OSU (after a fashion), where as *co-DC* he was ostensibly instrumental in OSU's success, however once Chris Ash left OSU and Schiano became solely responsible for the defense he managed to turn the squad into the worst OSU defense in recent history. He was not retained following Urban Meyer's retirement.
And let us not forget that little interim incident with Tennessee.
Or the bizarre announcement of his accepting the position of DC of the New England Patriots, only to "resign" within weeks of the announcement, after one day of camp and without having coached a single down.
If I were to hand you Greg Schiano's resume with the word "Rutgers" redacted, you'd tear it up, set it on fire and piss on it.
the hate is strong...I would like Schiano here just to watch 4Real meltdown
With all of that talent, why didn't he have a better W-L record in conference, or won a conference title (even a share of one) just once?
The first step in rebuilding this football program is recruiting. Establishing a recruiting pipeline. This will lead to getting the win totals up.
I don’t care about why he didn’t have a better w-L record at this point. We need a program builder. GS is a proven, successful program-builder. And he has done it here.
No brainer — he is a great candidate for this job.
Once the program is established, we can worry about better records and Rose Bowls.
I'm sorry, but the logic behind this post is desperately flawed.
If accurate, not good. It could be a personality thing. Some people are super anal, or have trust issues when it comes to delegating.
I'm not a proponent of Schiano 2.0, but this bit isn't fully accurate.
Ash left before Schiano arrived. Schiano was Co-DC with Fickell for 2016, at which point the defense really didn't miss a beat from 2015. He was then sole DC the following year, where the defense was as good as it was in 2014 (down a step from 2015/2016). It was his 3rd year, where he again became a Co-DC, this time with Alex Grinch, that the defense fell off.
Pretty decent postmortem on the 2018 defense from the Dayton Daily News. https://www.daytondailynews.com/spo...-major-disappointment/Bh64texknrA6kA818uO7HJ/
Ohio State football season review: Defense a major disappointment
What happened
In short, some of the worst defense in school history.
I think the reason so many are clamoring for Schiano 2.0 is that last time we hired a coach we ended up with Chris Ash. Potential candidates then included Mario Cristobol, Al Golden, PJ Fleck and Joe Moreland.
Of those 4 only Golden and Moreland seem like possibilities this time around.
It isn’t crazy to think we could easily end up with another Chris Ash-like bust, which makes Schiano all the more appealing.
Of those 4 only Golden and Moreland seem like possibilities this time around.
It isn’t crazy to think we could easily end up with another Chris Ash-like bust, which makes Schiano all the more appealing.
Some highlights from the article:
- Despite the loss of seven starters, SBNation/Football Outsiders numbers projected a third-straight top 10 unit thanks in large part to All-American end Nick Bosa and Urban Meyer's penchant for stacking top 10 recruiting classes on top of each other.
- Bosa’s season-ending core muscle injury in week three against TCU was a big factor. He had been a one-man wrecking crew up to that point, making enough plays to cover up for a lot of shortcomings the rest of the unit might have.
- Multiple talented players were left in his wake, but junior tackles Robert Landers and Dre’Mont Jones were both banged up for much of the year, too, leaving the unit as a whole not as dominant as it was expected to be.
- The defensive line failing to be the strength it was expected to be put more of an onus on the linebackers to be difference-makers, something they seemed ill-suited for.
- Tuf Borland, a sophomore who began the year still slowed by an Achilles injury, proved to be strong against power teams such as Michigan and Michigan State but was less effective against spread teams. The staff had him splitting time with highly regarded sophomore Baron Browning early in the season, but Browning was inconsistent when given opportunities.
- Damon Arnette, Kendall Sheffield and Jeffrey Okudah were all about as likely to be called for pass interference or give up a long catch as they were to break up a pass, something that continued from the beginning of the season to the end.
- If youth, inexperience and injuries were a big part of the defense’s problems in 2018, there’s good news: Injuries are always going to be part of the game, but the Buckeyes should be older and wiser in 2019.
When you define the listing of facts about a person as "hate", you've crossed from admiration and appreciation of a person to idolatry and worship. Not good.
This is where I am. I don't trust another Midwestern flavor of the month. Been there, done that.
I would be OK with Moorehead or Jones...if there is a current p5 HC otherwise I would consider that too.
Otherwise Schiano is at least a guarantee of stability and that is desperately needed at the moment.
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