Anyone that still thinks that recruiting doesn't matter?
- Thread starter rurahrah000
- Start date
In my opinion your post is the number 1 reason why a very good coach will avoid us. The one thing you missed in your post is that recruits of the Tier 1 (Bama, OSU, LSU, Florida) quality include borderline kids. Exceptional athletes but not student athletes. This institution will not allow that to happen here today, four years from now or ever. Sorry.
Yes I'e seen the quote and most coaches will say that and of course defer the credit. How many are going to say oh man it's because of me and all my greatness as a coach. No one is arrogant enough to say that even if they did believe it. Like I said it's not that it doesn't matter, it's that most aren't going to recruit at a level high enough and way beyond the level their particular school normally recruits. If they want to really take a step up it's going to be on the back of coaching quality/acumen.
Wisconsin has been competing pretty well and their recruiting rankings have never been so high. Baylor has built itself on the back of Art Briles and his system and now after some sustained success probably have had a boost in recruiting. TCU as well. Dantonio at MSU built itself up without great recruiting rankings but now probably have also gotten a boost.
WE didn't get shut out ;)
And yeah, we aren't very good. Especially with our starting dbackfield in the county lock-up, Darius out for the year, Austin out with a concussion, Carroo out with an ankle, etc.
I just posted this. I'll post it again.
You get one game to bet your mortgage on.
Urban coaches RU's roster vs. Flood coaching OSU.
I know who'd I take. And you could have Parcells run the defense and Bill Walsh coach the offense. I'll take Elmer Fludd and the OSU roster.
It doesn't mean you can't compete. How has Wisconsin recruited all these years and they've competed. MSU when Dantonio first got there and they've competed and probably have gotten a boost now with some of the sustained success but he didn't start out like that.
They would? and they would be off by 7:30. You know practice time is limited right?
I could call 6 HS buddies to coach OSU against our roster right now.
You guy's are seriously underestimating the talent gap.
Of course we should be "competing." But the team doesn't quit. It doesn't back down. The offense played to the last whistle. We're just nowhere in OSU's league right now.
Throw in that this staff (other than McDaniels) stinks and we are sunk...
It may be too huge a gap but I'll bet you the game won't be 49-0. You're asking a coach to make up a wide moat and sometimes it may be too wide but how often in the college landscape are you going to encounter such a wide moat. Like I said look at Wisconsin and MSU in this same conference. They've been competing over the years and it wasn't built on the backs of high ranking recruiting classes.
You disagree that OSU has a projected Top 5 NFl draft pick in every position group on the field except kicker and punter?
We have ONE player who might be drafted in the 2nd round. After that, we have Lumpkin who is probably a 3/4th rounder depending on his combine.
Depending on who leaves OSU, they could have multiple guys taken in the first 15 picks.
You disagree about the talent gap?
They moved the B10 offensive player of the year from QB to WR because they have 3 guys that can run their offense at national Championship level. Our starting QB drops at least one snap per game, gives up a 20 yard sack and has a tendency to spike the ball at random times.
yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Will you meet me half way and admit that both Wisc. and MSU recruit much better than Rutgers. As a matter of fact would you agree that they recruit much better than us? I'll agree with you that D'Antonio (sp) is much better than Flood.
It was built on consistently better recruiting classes than we've had.
Classes ranked even 5-7 spots higher, over a 5 year cycle, produces a roster that is significantly more talented.
I agree we're not. I'm not questioning that at all. They have great recruiting AND the awesome coach. The gap between us and them is very wide it may be just too big to close with coaching acumen alone. But how often are going to encounter that combination of great coaching acumen in Meyer and talent gap of OSU compared to us. Not too often and again MSU/Wisconsin have done it over the years so there's no reason we couldn't in time compete better with a better staff. How big was the talent gap between Texas and Baylor/TCU in the past but look what a good coach and recruiting well to a particular system has closed that gap a lot.
Flood did the same thing last year, RU had a bye week and the team got the week off or something like that before the OSU game.
I disagree that a coach can't improve, and even project a team beyond superior talent, due to his abilities to coach that team. While a coach with less abilities, will certainly regress the potential abilities of any team. So, no I don't disagree about talent gap. But, that talent gap coming into College was only based on "potential.' A good coach, takes that potential and makes them all winners. Another coach does not.
I haven't looked recently but I remember when I looked say about 3 some odd years ago when Bielema was there they weren't even ranked most years because Rivals only went up top 40-50 I think. I don't know what Wisconsin's rankings have been recentely but I know MSU has recruited better but they weren't built on that and that's my point. How did Baylor/TCU recruit compared to Texas? How has that gap closed? Good coaching and recruiting well to a particular system. I'm sure they've both gotten a boost in recruiting now but that's now how they were built up and that's my point.
Really? Wisconsin competed with OSU last year? Really?
They got curbstomped worse than we just did.
You're looking at one game. Look over time or have you forgotten the 3 straight Rose Bowls they went to with Bielema and how they've been ranked many times over the years
That isn't what I said.
What I said was that the talent gap between THIS Rutgers team and THAT OSU team makes the coach largely irrelevant.
Could a superior staff have won PSU? or WSU? Yes.
But Walsh, Parcells, Chuck Knoll, Hoodie and Lombardi could have gotten this RU team in April and they would have gotten run tonight. They are not in the same stratosphere as Ohio State talent wise. That is the point.
If you guys want to make moral victory arguments about the game being "closer" with a better staff, i'm not gonna stop you. But that wasn't the point I was making.
The Wisconsin team that had multiple NFL lineman drafted? JJ Watt on defense? and Monte Ball toting the rock?
Thanks for proving my point.
And yes, I know Watt was a walk-on transfer.
What were the recruiting rankings of all those Wisconsin teams during those years?
Holy crap please name me the coach who is going to recruit Ohio State right now. Maybe 10 years from now we have a chance but seriously if Nick Saban was our coach Meyer would be out recruiting us right now. Can we please get to the point when the Big 10 is giving us the same money as OSU before we have this argument.
Their final poll rankings? or their recruiting rankings?
It doesn't matter, as I don't know off hand. But I am comfortable guessing BOTH were consistently higher than ours. Which, as I pointed out above, has a multiplier effect when taken over the 5 year cycle of a program.
How did schiano manage to get good talent out of new Jersey and recruit tom savage away from Penn state while in the big east with no money???
Saban. Fischer. Harbough. Miles. Whatever dumpster fire is at USC when signing day rolls around. They all do OK vis a vis Ohio State.
Nobody is suggesting we can out recruit OSU. You're missing the point.
I think you are missing my point. A team that was not 24 months ago in an inferior league with a recruiting budget a quarter of everyone else as the rest of the league is going to all of a sudden get the same level of talent as arguably the greatest program in our league in one of its highest points in the history of its program. Please explain.
I looked at Wisconsin recruiting 2006-2009 and they are ranked between 30-40 overall with 3-4 4 stars every class. FLOOD classes are in the 50's including this coming year and maybe 1 4 stars.
I edited my post to specify recruiting rankings. I did look it up a few years ago because I was impressed and was like wow how are they recruiting. They weren't even ranked by Rivals at the time because they only showed top 40 rankings. I think they've since amended and show beyond top 40 but their rankings weren't high and actually were below us a few times during those years.
I just took a quick look and here's the rankings of both RU/Wisconsin from 2007-2012. If anything by rankings we've out recruited Wisconsin over a 5 year cycle.
RU - 37 46 38 64 32 24
Wisc - 34 41 43 88 40 57
I just looked it up myself from 2007 to 2012 and by rankings we better than them in a few years or basically on par in the others.
Talent is probably 2/3 of the game but "talent" doesn't just mean recruiting the fastest, strongest, biggest guys. The talent has to fit the system. You need guys that fit your style of play. And what kind of system do you even run? Those things are on the coach mostly.
I'm not arguing we should. So I don't need to explain anything. I'm arguing that the talent gap is so significant the coach doesn't matter. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ok didn't realize you were going in that direction. Cool then. We are on the same page.
Flood last 3 classes are in the 50's. THe current team has 3 Flood classes and next year 4 years of recruiting by Flood.
