Anyone that still thinks that recruiting doesn't matter?

[ruhudsonfan]

I edited my post to specify recruiting rankings. I did look it up a few years ago because I was impressed and was like wow how are they recruiting. They weren't even ranked by Rivals at the time because they only showed top 40 rankings. I think they've since amended and show beyond top 40 but their rankings weren't high and actually were below us a few times during those years.

I just took a quick look and here's the rankings of both RU/Wisconsin from 2007-2012. If anything by rankings we've out recruited Wisconsin over a 5 year cycle.

RU - 37 46 38 64 32 24
Wisc - 34 41 43 88 40 57

What does this period of time really tell us?

The B10 was a much different place then. We had a different coach and were coming off 2006 momentum.

I don't doubt your work, but i don't know what it actually proves. That 8 years ago, we out recruited Wisconsin? with a coach we no longer have? Yet, they won a league that had Paterno pissing his pants on the sideline, OSU in the midst of a scandal, Michigan wandering lost in the wilderness and MSU just gettin started under Dan?

I dunno...

 

[brgossRU90]

There is a huge talent gap between us and ohio state such that we would lose 9 out of every 10 games we played at this point--or worse--BUT on the other hand upsets happen all the time. A good coach can put his team in place to maybe pull off the upset given the right circumstances; a bad coach, like ours, does not. This is why we never upset anyone much better

 

[rutgersdave]

I just looked it up myself from 2007 to 2012 and by rankings we better than them in a few years or basically on par in the others.

Only 2012 players are on the current team and a few 5th year seniors.The current team has 2013, 2014, 2015 recruits.

 

[bac2therac]

of course we know we are far away in recruiting..its that the reality is we will not be any better than 6-6/7-5 with Flood and his recruiting and lack of stain and shaky gameday coaching. So some people seem content with that and others want to risk some bad seasons to perhaps be successful and make something other than a minor tier bowl someday

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

We're an easy 4-5 years behind in recruiting compared to the likes of OSU, UM, PSU etc so even if we hire Nick Saban tomorrow we got a long wait

4 or 5 years? More like 10-15 years. 2030 may be a good year.

 

[rutgersguy1]

What does this period of time really tell us?

The B10 was a much different place then. We had a different coach and were coming off 2006 momentum.

I don't doubt your work, but i don't know what it actually proves. That 8 years ago, we out recruited Wisconsin? with a coach we no longer have? Yet, they won a league that had Paterno pissing his pants on the sideline, OSU in the midst of a scandal, Michigan wandering lost in the wilderness and MSU just gettin started under Dan?

I dunno...

Well of course the landscape is always changing, my point is how often are we going to encounter both the coaching acumen of Meyer and the talent gap with OSU? People are taking tonight's performance and acting like man we'll never compete in the B10 not just against the mighty OSU with Meyer. Point is Wisconsin was able and still is able to compete in this conference without stellar rankings and so can we provided we have quality coaching. MSU built itself up in the same fashion too. People have gone to absolute despair because we got railroaded by an awesome coach with a huge talent gap and taken it to a we'll never amount to anything in this conference. My point is yes we can compete in this conference and it doesn't necessarily take stellar recruiting to do it. It would certainly help but it's not as imperative as finding the coach IMO. That in itself is a difficult task but the more important one for me.

Wisconsin even now is recruiting in the mid 30s ranking wise and they've been ranked the last couple years with Andersen and were ranked many times with Bielema. My point is we can also achieve those kind of accomplishments without recruiting gangbusters.

Like I said most coaches here are going to recruit in generally the same recruiting tier RU usually would say 30-50 and that's fine with me. It's unlikely you'll find a guy who will recruit for us consistently in say the top 10-15 to actually feel that boost in recruiting acumen. So I'm going to go with the guy who can coach and recruit to a system and with that I think we can compete in this league and become a ranked team more often than not.

Don't just look at the B10, how have TCU and Baylor done it in comparison to the uphill climb against Texas? If we're going to have a chance to move up it's going to be like they did not because we're suddenly recruiting top 10-15 classes consistently.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Only 2012 players are on the current team and a few 5th year seniors.The current team has 2013, 2014, 2015 recruits.

My point wasn't about who's left on this year's roster from those classes. My point was with ruhudsonfan that Wisconsin was able to compete well in this conference and achieve some good results and it wasn't on the back of great recruiting classes. Those were the rankings of the last 5 classes during Bielema's time there and they were going to Rose Bowls and were ranked. Andersen after him was ranked too. IMO we can do some of those things as well but IMO it'll be on the back of good coaching over good recruiting.

 

[nick614]

You guys need to dump the pro style offense. Unless you are a blue blood and get all the best players you can't play that style of football. College offenses have evolved and you either evolve with it or be bad.

 

[brgossRU90]

You guys need to dump the pro style offense. Unless you are a blue blood and get all the best players you can't play that style of football. College offenses have evolved and you either evolve with it or be bad.

I've said this for almost 10 years.

 

[Awesome Hawk]

Did you see how Longa got abused by the RB. Did you see how Coffi could not tackle Elliott on the 4th down? How is coaching going to change that? We need players.

While I agree with the general point you're making here, this specific example is a poor one. That is one of the best college RBs that you will ever see. He does that to everyone, including Alabama last year.

 

[Awesome Hawk]

I don't agree, I think Meyer would have had this team much more prepared to play then Flood ever could! He gave the team off on Monday, of the week they were about to play the #1 team in the country! Are you kidding me! They would have been on the field at 6 AM, going over their D and O.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....you realize that the NCAA mandates that each team gives its players one day per week off during the season, right? About 98% of them take that day off on Monday.

 

[Caliknight]

of course we know we are far away in recruiting..its that the reality is we will not be any better than 6-6/7-5 with Flood and his recruiting and lack of stain and shaky gameday coaching. So some people seem content with that and others want to risk some bad seasons to perhaps be successful and make something other than a minor tier bowl someday

Or some realize that this is what the administration is willing to invest in and accept. Likely nothing more. What we fans want or don't want doesn't really matter. The administration drives the bus. It takes a concerted effort from the President on down to not just want to win big, but to do what it takes from an investment standpoint to do that. And even that is no guarantee. RU leadership isn't focused on winning. Their goal 1 is to become revenue neutral, which is counter intuitive to competing against massive investment schools like OSU. Everything these schools have is better. Bigger recruiting budgets, better facilities, more money to pay coaches, support staff, etc. it will take a full reengineering of the schools DNA to change that, which isn't happening anytime soon, if ever.

 

[ruwarrior]

and as long as Flood remains that 5 year gap will always exist and will never be made up.

We're an easy 4-5 years behind in recruiting compared to the likes of OSU, UM, PSU etc so even if we hire Nick Saban tomorrow we got a long wait

 

[LotusAggressor]

Yes I'e seen the quote and most coaches will say that and of course defer the credit. How many are going to say oh man it's because of me and all my greatness as a coach. No one is arrogant enough to say that even if they did believe it. Like I said it's not that it doesn't matter, it's that most aren't going to recruit at a level high enough and way beyond the level their particular school normally recruits. If they want to really take a step up it's going to be on the back of coaching quality/acumen.

Wisconsin has been competing pretty well and their recruiting rankings have never been so high. Baylor has built itself on the back of Art Briles and his system and now after some sustained success probably have had a boost in recruiting. TCU as well. Dantonio at MSU built itself up without great recruiting rankings but now probably have also gotten a boost.

MSU recruits the same kinds of players Rutgers does. Their coaches are better. TCU and Baylor recruit to their systems, and develop players to play in those systems. Their coaches are also better. Meanwhile, at RU, a QB with real ability and potential plays for 4 different OCs and only the last one teaches him about reading defenses. The fundamental difference between RU and these programs over the last 3 years is coaching and player development. Players in those programs wind up playing like 4 & 5 star players, even if they weren't ranked that highly coming out of high school. RU recruits 2 star players with upside who play like 2 star players after being in the program for several years. That's why we're seeing what we're seeing.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The "administration" as the Floodies call them

- Didn't recruit, nor did they stop Schiano from outrecruiting TTFP and every other NE program

- Write emails saying "I'm breaking the rules"

- Start Laviano over Rettig

We can hire a MAC coach for 3 cents and end those three problems tomorrow.

Stop making excuses.

Flood is the problem, has been since his co-OC days and we all saw it then and see it now.

 

[seels2662]

We can hire a MAC coach for 3 cents and end those three problems tomorrow.

You think hiring a MAC coach on the cheap will put this program in the right direction? That would destroy this program. At least this program is good for 5-8 wins a year. Your suggestion would put us a 2-4 wins a year for a very very long time.

 

[NotInRHouse]

You think hiring a MAC coach on the cheap will put this program in the right direction? That would destroy this program. At least this program is good for 5-8 wins a year. Your suggestion would put us a 2-4 wins a year for a very very long time.

Bolded is false. The schedule only gets harder and 5 wins is a long ways away.

There is not enough schedule padding for a coach who can beat 4 winning teams in 4 years.

And is Minnesota failing? Or NC State?

 

[KnightsofChrome]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....you realize that the NCAA mandates that each team gives its players one day per week off during the season, right? About 98% of them take that day off on Monday.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...you do realize that there are many days that a coach can give his players off, " during a season. " But, the one day you do NOT give is the day(anyday) of the week, which you are about to play the #1 Team in the Nation, on National TV!
Geez, get a clue!

 

[seels2662]

Bolded is false. The schedule only gets harder and 5 wins is a long ways away.

There is not enough schedule padding for a coach who can beat 4 winning teams in 4 years.

And is Minnesota failing? Or NC State?

How is bolded false? If we beat Maryland and Army that gets us to 5 wins. Are you saying that is a stretch? And show me which past season that Flood didn't deliver 5-8 wins?

 

[RUJMM78]

One of the best measures to show the value of coaching is the won/loss record against opponents with a winning record.Rutgers remains a midlevel program because of the ongoing failure in achieving any tangible success in meeting this measure.Last season Navy and Maryland were the only wins meeting that measure and there might be no team if Indiana keeps losing this season.

 

[bac2therac]

You think hiring a MAC coach on the cheap will put this program in the right direction? That would destroy this program. At least this program is good for 5-8 wins a year. Your suggestion would put us a 2-4 wins a year for a very very long time.

8 wins? when? you do realize that right off the back we have 4 losses virtually every year with this regime...so next year we have 4 then how do we do vs Iowa and Washington...could be looking at the same 6-6 slog again. We don't know what the next guy will bring but I do know and have seen enough as to the ceiling of the current guy and he isn't going to deliver us anything better than 7-5 in this league and his off field crap he pulled was an embarrassment the school didn't need.

 

[Caliknight]

I believe Flood is the lowest paid P5 coach in the country. He is out performing his contract and giving the administration exactly what they want.

The short bus crew is to naive to understand what is really going on.

It's too complicated for them.

 

[seels2662]

8 wins? when? you do realize that right off the back we have 4 losses virtually every year with this regime...so next year we have 4 then how do we do vs Iowa and Washington...could be looking at the same 6-6 slog again. We don't know what the next guy will bring but I do know and have seen enough as to the ceiling of the current guy and he isn't going to deliver us anything better than 7-5 in this league and his off field crap he pulled was an embarrassment the school didn't need.

Did we or did we not win 8 games last year.

Hermann....Fuentes...Names like these that keep on being thrown about are comical because there is zero chance that we will pay for them. Herman makes $1.35M right now, he would take a $100K pay cut to be coaching Rutgers in 2015. These coaches will be offered double from the Marylands and Illinoises of the world than from us. You need to set the bar way way lower than that. The only name that I have heard being thrown about that is greater than a 0% chance of landing would be Robb Smith because of his connection to this program may allow us land him on the cheap.

 

[bac2therac]

Did we or did we not win 8 games last year.

Hermann....Fuentes...Names like these that keep on being thrown about are comical because there is zero chance that we will pay for them. Herman makes $1.35M right now, he would take a $100K pay cut to be coaching Rutgers in 2015. These coaches will be offered double from the Marylands and Illinoises of the world than from us. You need to set the bar way way lower than that. The only name that I have heard being thrown about that is greater than a 0% chance of landing would be Robb Smith because of his connection to this program may allow us land him on the cheap.

regular season 7-5....2-5 in league. Find me where we are getting 8 regular season wins with this coach

 

[seels2662]

Whats the difference between 7 regular season wins and a bowl victory vs. 8 wins and a guaranteed loss in a bowl? Is one season a much better success than another? Besides we played the 2 best cross division opponents last year and still won 7 games what happens when we get Illinois and Purdue on the schedule? Either way we are splitting hairs right now its not like I was promising a national title.

My point still remains, we will be a .500 team plus or minus a game or two with Flood. Until someone, anyone gives me a realistic name to say otherwise no future coach can promise that for the next 3 years.

 

[seels2662]

Oh and we won 3 B1G games last year, not 2.

 

[brgossRU90]

You think hiring a MAC coach on the cheap will put this program in the right direction? That would destroy this program. At least this program is good for 5-8 wins a year. Your suggestion would put us a 2-4 wins a year for a very very long time.

Brian Kelly came from central michigan.

 

[seels2662]

Brian Kelly came from central michigan.

And he wasn't on the cheap.

 

[brgossRU90]

You think cincinnati paid brian Kelly $5m????

 

[seels2662]

5 years, $6.3M, and that was how many years ago. The cost for coaches have gone way up from that.

 

[Kbee3]

Only 2012 players are on the current team and a few 5th year seniors.The current team has 2013, 2014, 2015 recruits.

As I posted in another thread, Ohio State between 2011 and 2015 got 74 4-star recruits....Rutgers got 11
Perhaps we need to look into upgrading our hostess program.

 

[brgossRU90]

We're not talking about Notre dames contract.

 

[LotusAggressor]

It's all about recruiting! Every college coach knows the X's and O's. Do you see how many OSU players are projected to go 1st round. We will never match up with OSU. NEVER!!! We will never out recruit them. Our goals are beating the middle if the pack teams. Which I think we can we just need to get better players. OSU has tradition, national championships, and money to burn. That will never be us.

Every college coach knows Xs and Os? I'm not so sure our coaches do. The best X & O guy at RU during the Flood tenure was Friedgen. Out of all the OCs, he was pretty much the only real X & O guy. The defense has been a disaster in that area since Smith left.

 

[Zombo NJ]

until RU puts 10m into into it's coaching budget it will just sink deeper

that is..IMO...the cost of a new staff with upgrades in recruiting...buyouts whatever...give or take 1-2 m tops..

table stakes...I don't know why they can't do a Maryland and grab some future $ now...Delany would know it's for the overall good of B1G...

anything but a first class overhaul will just keep us on the road to nowhere...and don't tell me about last years record...please..RU has no depth ...Caroo is the only guy on field last nigh better than his OSU position equivalent...blowouts R US

 

[SanFranRutgers]

Flood is not the answer. We know that. School too cheap to make a change.

It's not the school that's cheap.

 

[Caliknight]

It's not the school that's cheap.

Nope. It's the state and alums and those businesses in the state that need to support the school more.

 

[RU#1fan]

You think hiring a MAC coach on the cheap will put this program in the right direction? That would destroy this program. At least this program is good for 5-8 wins a year. Your suggestion would put us a 2-4 wins a year for a very very long time.

What ?
We are the he## do you see 5-8 games to be won annually by this Program ?
We will be lucky ...very lucky to win 5 games this year ( and 2 of those against a FBS and an FCS bottom dweller) .
That's 2 losing seasons out of the last 3 seasons for Flood. Not to mention a laughing stock record against Winning teams. Next year will be not be any better.

 

[Awesome Hawk]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...you do realize that there are many days that a coach can give his players off, " during a season. " But, the one day you do NOT give is the day(anyday) of the week, which you are about to play the #1 Team in the Nation, on National TV!
Geez, get a clue!

The NCAA forces them to give one day off, EVERY SINGLE WEEK, during the season. They have to. It's a rule. Just about every team does it on Monday. About 125 of the 128 FBS teams have every single Monday off during the season. The other schools have some other day off during the week (Iowa does it on Thursday).

What you want your coach to do is blatantly violate NCAA rules, which, based on the current national reputation of your athletic department, seems about right.

 

[seels2662]

What ?
We are the he## do you see 5-8 games to be won annually by this Program ?
We will be lucky ...very lucky to win 5 games this year ( and 2 of those against a FBS and an FCS bottom dweller) .
That's 2 losing seasons out of the last 3 seasons for Flood. Not to mention a laughing stock record against Winning teams. Next year will be not be any better.

Ummmmm he has delivered between 6 and 8 wins every year he was a head coach. You have no evidence that it will change.

 

[ru8081]

Our recruiting is good enough to have competitive battles on the field with Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, and Northwestern. We are not that far off from Wisconsin and Iowa. It is the coaching and how players are developed. The schools named do a better job of developing talent and putting them in a place to win.