ADVERTISEMENT

Archie Miller (Dayton) and Bob Hurley (Buffalo)

knights1212

Heisman Winner
Sep 9, 2003
16,837
8,247
113
I really hope that Eddie can get things done but if we show no progress next season Archie Miller at Dayton and Bobby Hurley at Buffalo are two coaches I would definitely have on my radar. They are both young and their teams really seem to get after it. I myself would prefer Bobby over his brother, Danny. Danny at times seems to be a bit over the top in his behavior. Bobby seems more composed on the bench.
 
what is up with the fascination with Bobby Hurley and his 3 years of coaching experience... besides his name recognition and Jersey roots?
...
This post was edited on 3/14 10:42 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
 
Neither coach is happening with Jordan fails. Set your bar much much lower than that for your next coach.
 
Knights,

I've got to disagree with you here.


I think what a lot of fans fail to understand is that it is much easier to build a program in a small conference and beat inferior competition.

Great job by Bobby to get to the tourney, but Buffalo wasn't going to be one of the teams in if they were in the Big 10. If Bobby was recruiting to the same terrible facilities at Rutgers and competing for major talent, he would be losing the same battles.


Again, nobody can predict the future, but we haven't had a chance to bring in any talent to RU yet. Half of the players we did bring in were ineligible due to NCAA rules, so lets see how they fair with some kids coming off of a red shirt year (3 with Goode, Diallo, and Johnson) as well as Kejuan and Corey. That's 5 new players.

I wish these kids had come in one year earlier with Myles as the leader of the team. I think that would have helped considerably, but this is a very young team, and I think one which will be more competitive 2 years from now.

You can't blame Eddie, if he doesn't have any talent. I would compare it to Joe Girardi with the Yankees. Did anyone here think the Yanks had a championship roster last year? Can't blame the guy for not winning it all, if the players he's managing don't stack up to the competition.


In Eddie's first presser when he was hired, he said, "Good players make good coaches, bad players get you fired" so he obviously knows that he needs to bring in more talent to get this thing going, but lets be honest, he didn't have much to work with when he got here. No facilities, half a team, major scandal.......not everyone thinks RU is such a great place to play basketball....we do, we went there, we've been fans here for a long time.....our viewpoint is skewed.
 
Hurley did a Great job coming off that coaching scandal that left Buffalo with 4 scholarship players. My bad, that was Rutgers.

I am 100% sure that either Hurley would have pulled in Tyler Roberson and Tyler Ennis their first year and followed that up by getting Isaiah Briscoe and Malachi Richardson this year. Next year he would have the rest of the top players on the east coast fighting to sign with Rutgers and their world class arena and practice facility. They also would have lured top assistant coaches in the country to Rutgers by offering them the best salaries in the country for assistant coaches.


..
This post was edited on 3/15 12:01 AM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
 
Keep hatin the Hurley's. They are winners. And that four scholarship things will start wearing thin if we win 10 games next year

This post was edited on 3/14 11:55 PM by ruman
 
Originally posted by WGLTAUD:
Knights,

I've got to disagree with you here.


I think what a lot of fans fail to understand is that it is much easier to build a program in a small conference and beat inferior competition.

Great job by Bobby to get to the tourney, but Buffalo wasn't going to be one of the teams in if they were in the Big 10. If Bobby was recruiting to the same terrible facilities at Rutgers and competing for major talent, he would be losing the same battles.


Again, nobody can predict the future, but we haven't had a chance to bring in any talent to RU yet. Half of the players we did bring in were ineligible due to NCAA rules, so lets see how they fair with some kids coming off of a red shirt year (3 with Goode, Diallo, and Johnson) as well as Kejuan and Corey. That's 5 new players.

I wish these kids had come in one year earlier with Myles as the leader of the team. I think that would have helped considerably, but this is a very young team, and I think one which will be more competitive 2 years from now.

You can't blame Eddie, if he doesn't have any talent. I would compare it to Joe Girardi with the Yankees. Did anyone here think the Yanks had a championship roster last year? Can't blame the guy for not winning it all, if the players he's managing don't stack up to the competition.


In Eddie's first presser when he was hired, he said, "Good players make good coaches, bad players get you fired" so he obviously knows that he needs to bring in more talent to get this thing going, but lets be honest, he didn't have much to work with when he got here. No facilities, half a team, major scandal.......not everyone thinks RU is such a great place to play basketball....we do, we went there, we've been fans here for a long time.....our viewpoint is skewed.
Hey buddy.... common sense is not allowed here. The Hurley's are Gods and can walk on water.
 
RU-Choppin-Ohio,


One thing I'll say is that the Yankees/Mets fan mentalities hurt RU overall.

I completely get it. We aren't winning, and what happens in NY and NJ when teams aren't winning? Instead of supporting the team, everyone goes out and finds a scapegoat which is usually the coach.

How many times were we all going to fire Tom Coughlin? How many times were we going to fire Coach Flood??? By the way, I was guilty of both.


So I completely get it, but this isn't MLB, or the NFL. We don't have a draft, we can't pay free agents. We can't call Isaiah Briscoe and offer him a Max contract, and we can't go out and give mid-level exceptions. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way, we're not the Yankkes

Honestly, if I were a recruit this year coming to RU games and seeing 2,000 opposing fans at every game, I wouldn't come here either.

All of those Wisconsin tickets that were given out, and the early football season ticket freebees were sold to opposing fans by our own football/basketball fans. So Julie Hermann should consider that next year, I wouldn't give any RU fans any freebees for any reason next season because at least the opposing fans will buy them from the school next year and make the program some money, rather than just giving them away.
 
Haters gunna hate, hate, hate, hate.

In Year 2, Hurley has Buffalo in the dance for the first time in their history. He's won 42 of 61 career games.

Say what you want about the situation at Rutgers in 2013, I'm sure it wasn't so hot at Buffalo, either.

It always amazes me the shade people give the Hurley's, but also coaches who come from NJ in general.

That's why you're grasping at straws to criticize a coach, and praying one day we enjoy the season Buffalo had this year.

Give respect when respect is due, Choppin.

In your eyes, Rutgers can do no wrong. Our record, effort, competitiveness - these things are off-limits. Fans can't demand just a little more. Instead of falsely claiming we believe "Hurley's walk on water", why don't you demand more from the administration down to the coaching staff?


Eddie Jordan is our coach. He's not going anywhere. Bobby isn't coming here. If Danny passed on the job so would he. (This is all my speculation). But when you offer coaches meh salaries, promise nothing on facilities, lack history, produce few students at games, deal with shady politicians, when they parody you on last-night TV ... we'll be lucky anyone takes the job in a few years.

All that said, give him some credit. He took BUFFALO to the tournament. When a MAC coach takes a Power 5 job, does that mean the AD/school/donors believe the coach can walk on water? No, they go after the best candidate for the position.

Bobby Hurley is a better candidate in today's game than Bill Carmody, Al Skinnerr, Oliver Purnell, Brian Gregory ... just because you have more experience does not mean the job is right for you. Speaking of Brian Gregory, when he left Dayton for Georgia Tech, guess who replaced him? Archie Miller, a Dayton assistant who never coached a game.

This post was edited on 3/15 12:55 AM by Aggs
 
Miller, Hurley as coach???. We(RU) should be so fortunate. At least there'd be some hope.
 
It's also what you do with the players you recruit. That's what makes a good coach.
 
I was watching the Dayton game and was thinking the same thing. He is an energetic coach. I'm also looking at all the assistant coaching staffs on teams. Ours look old and stagnant. Look at all those young and energetic assistant coaches getting involved in games while RU's just sits with hands folded.
 
Originally posted by WGLTAUD:
Knights,

I've got to disagree with you here.


I think what a lot of fans fail to understand is that it is much easier to build a program in a small conference and beat inferior competition.

Great job by Bobby to get to the tourney, but Buffalo wasn't going to be one of the teams in if they were in the Big 10. If Bobby was recruiting to the same terrible facilities at Rutgers and competing for major talent, he would be losing the same battles.


Again, nobody can predict the future, but we haven't had a chance to bring in any talent to RU yet. Half of the players we did bring in were ineligible due to NCAA rules, so lets see how they fair with some kids coming off of a red shirt year (3 with Goode, Diallo, and Johnson) as well as Kejuan and Corey. That's 5 new players.

I wish these kids had come in one year earlier with Myles as the leader of the team. I think that would have helped considerably, but this is a very young team, and I think one which will be more competitive 2 years from now.

You can't blame Eddie, if he doesn't have any talent. I would compare it to Joe Girardi with the Yankees. Did anyone here think the Yanks had a championship roster last year? Can't blame the guy for not winning it all, if the players he's managing don't stack up to the competition.


In Eddie's first presser when he was hired, he said, "Good players make good coaches, bad players get you fired" so he obviously knows that he needs to bring in more talent to get this thing going, but lets be honest, he didn't have much to work with when he got here. No facilities, half a team, major scandal.......not everyone thinks RU is such a great place to play basketball....we do, we went there, we've been fans here for a long time.....our viewpoint is skewed.
Why hasn't EJ had a chance to bring in talent? He has brought in the players you note above in his first two plus recruiting cycles. The question is are they good enough for us to get better under his tutelage? He has and will continue to have opportunities to get better players but he is doing himself no favors if he believes he should get a pass for the putrid results on the court the first two years. IMO to some extent he is hampering himself by not having the right AAU connections and recognizing he needs a strong recruiting assistant on the staff. Waters had the same problem and I don't think EJ is as strong a bench coach as Waters to overcome that.

I am not sure the Hurleys would be my first choice but how much prior college coaching experience did EJ have before we gave him this job? We made a projection that his legendary RU status (dated for HS today) and his NBA experience would translate to success. Early results are not good and I am most concerned with the lack of improvement when it comes to player development. Other than Lewis I am not sure I saw a kid who got better Yr over Yr or one that was notably better at the end of the season versus the beginning of the year.
 
I like Archie Miller and have said I think he and Cluess are a couple guys who would be interesting and MIGHT make good coaches on the next level. He's done a good job this year with a depleted roster. I'm starting to warm to Masiello too. I actually could see him as a realistic option in a couple years if he continues to perform and if EJ doesn't work out. See the Louisville connection with JH/Pitino. BTW don't know how realistic Miller is for us in general unless we actually have a practice facility on the way etc.. Cluess/Masiello are more realistic options at this point IMO. If by some chance that facility was on the horizon then it might open up the field a bit. Again though, in 2 years if we need a change, the next coach's tenure will coincide with us getting a full share of the B10 revenue so that may be enticing for some.

If Bobby Hurley makes the tourney, it's a good job by him but I've said I think he needs an intermediate step in between like his brother from Wagner to RI. Do well there and then make the next step up to a P5 job. There was another Buffalo coach who quite a few liked on the football board at one time, who did some things at a moribund Buffalo program as well, Turner Gill. IIRC he won the conference. He took a step up and did very badly at Kansas. So it's nice to have these accomplishments at the lower level but again consistency and doing it over some time is key. It can't be just a flash in the pan.
 
The one constant that nobody can dispute is that no Rutgers coach for the past 24 years has been able to achieve a NCAA bid.All the lame excuses should be thrown in the garbage can along with the notion that Rutgers was prepared to join the B1G and be successful in league competition.
 
Ed Jordan --Mike O'Koren -- Van Macon -- Shoes

Can the people who hate on the Hurleys explain to me what do the members of the RU staff have on their bios to suggest that they can be expected to build a B1G program? Hell, a college program at any level? What have any of them accomplished in NCAA ball?

OK, we're stuck with our group for a couple more years. But doesn't the hiring of Mike O'Koren tell you all you need to know about Eddie's understanding of how to build a program? You go out and hire your pal, someone with no college experience for the most important seat on your bench. Eddie is either a freaking genius ... or a really, really good friend.
 
Originally posted by 78CollegeAve:
Ed Jordan --Mike O'Koren -- Van Macon -- Shoes

Can the people who hate on the Hurleys explain to me what do the members of the RU staff have on their bios to suggest that they can be expected to build a B1G program? Hell, a college program at any level? What have any of them accomplished in NCAA ball?

OK, we're stuck with our group for a couple more years. But doesn't the hiring of Mike O'Koren tell you all you need to know about Eddie's understanding of how to build a program? You go out and hire your pal, someone with no college experience for the most important seat on your bench. Eddie is either a freaking genius ... or a really, really good friend.
78...Its been said both here and in other places (NJ.com?) that Jordan actually tried to get other coaches but either they didn't want to be here or if they did Rutgers wouldn't pay for them. So no the hiring of O'Koren doesn't tell me anything because the Hurleys would end up getting the same caliber assistants.
 
Originally posted by rutgersguy1:
I like Archie Miller and have said I think he and Cluess are a couple guys who would be interesting and MIGHT make good coaches on the next level. He's done a good job this year with a depleted roster. I'm starting to warm to Masiello too. I actually could see him as a realistic option in a couple years if he continues to perform and if EJ doesn't work out. See the Louisville connection with JH/Pitino. BTW don't know how realistic Miller is for us in general unless we actually have a practice facility on the way etc.. Cluess/Masiello are more realistic options at this point IMO. If by some chance that facility was on the horizon then it might open up the field a bit. Again though, in 2 years if we need a change, the next coach's tenure will coincide with us getting a full share of the B10 revenue so that may be enticing for some.

If Bobby Hurley makes the tourney, it's a good job by him but I've said I think he needs an intermediate step in between like his brother from Wagner to RI. Do well there and then make the next step up to a P5 job. There was another Buffalo coach who quite a few liked on the football board at one time, who did some things at a moribund Buffalo program as well, Turner Gill. IIRC he won the conference. He took a step up and did very badly at Kansas. So it's nice to have these accomplishments at the lower level but again consistency and doing it over some time is key. It can't be just a flash in the pan.
The only thing that scares me about Archie Miller is Brian Gregory. I was high on him after stints as an Izzo assistant and then at Dayton. I would have liked him at RU but he does not seem to be getting it done at Georgia Tech. Dayton is a good job at that level and it is more of an indictment of our program if someone like Miller would not view RU as a step up.
 
Originally posted by rufeelinit:
The only thing that scares me about Archie Miller is Brian Gregory. I was high on him after stints as an Izzo assistant and then at Dayton. I would have liked him at RU but he does not seem to be getting it done at Georgia Tech. Dayton is a good job at that level and it is more of an indictment of our program if someone like Miller would not view RU as a step up.
Well nothing is ever guranteed but if Miller makes the NCAA this year he'd have matched Gregory's NCAA appearance in a short time. The other thing I like is that he had a depleted roster this year and he made do and is making it work. Stuff like that sells me on a guy being able to make do or do it with less heralded players, etc.. I also like the success his brother is having at Arizona so maybe a little osmosis there haha. Of course it doesn't mean a ton because sometimes one family member is good and another not so much. But again no gurantee, but I think he's an interesting candidate to make the step up.

I agree it's part indictment of our program but I also think it's something you see more of now. Mid major coaches are more willing to keep their fiefdoms on that level rather than risk it when they step up. Gregg Marshall at Wichita State, Mark Few at Gonzaga, Brad Steven at Butler until the Celtics came along, Shaka Smart at VCU, so it happens more often these days. At the very least they're willing to hang around longer for the right situation rather than jump at the first opportunity.
 
I have not been fans of the Hurleys, but I certainly can't ignore what they have done. Danny's team brings it defensively and Bobby's team does it with offense.

Rutgers had/had enough talent for either Hurley to get more out of the team.

I have changed my stance and would love to have either of them.
 
Wgtaud/choppin- That's the thinking a lot of us have- that we have to compete for major talent. The fact is-we don't have to and we shouldn't be trying to compete for major talent. We're not good enough right now to be competing for Kwe Parker.

What the hurleys have proven is that you can have success without major talent. That is why people would love them here.

I think EJ will get some wins. If he doesn't, no one over 50+ should be able to come here. Get a coach in his 35-40s and give him 1.2 million. No matter what school we are, coaches will like that. Bring in some wins and change the culture. Change the culture to a Winning one and bring in whatever coach will do it.
 
Originally posted by higgins3:
Wgtaud/choppin- That's the thinking a lot of us have- that we have to compete for major talent. The fact is-we don't have to and we shouldn't be trying to compete for major talent. We're not good enough right now to be competing for Kwe Parker.

What the hurleys have proven is that you can have success without major talent. That is why people would love them here.

I think EJ will get some wins. If he doesn't, no one over 50+ should be able to come here. Get a coach in his 35-40s and give him 1.2 million. No matter what school we are, coaches will like that. Bring in some wins and change the culture. Change the culture to a Winning one and bring in whatever coach will do it.
How can anyone compare coaching at MAC Buffalo vs. B1G level. It's kind of obvious that you can win without major talent in the MAC if you play against teams with lesser talent. If Buffalo won the MAC it's because they had the best talent in the MAC.

You can't win in the B1G without talent and you don't accumulate talent after 1 full recruiting class. In the one class we have a top 50 player coming..... and that was done with poor facilities.... probably the worse in the Major college basketball.


Hurley did a good job at Buffalo but to compare that to playing against B1G level competition is silly. Buffalo wins ZERO games in the B1G.

..



This post was edited on 3/15 3:16 PM by RU-Choppin-Ohio
 
One interesting detail that Hurley insisted on when taking the Buffalo job -- he insisted on chartered flights for the team. No more long bus rides to road games.
 
Jay Wright and Mike Brey coached at Hofstra and Delaware, respectively. Not saying Bobby Hurley Jr. has the same resume when they left the American East, but you can make an educated guess and project to the next level. Hurley does have a better record in his first two years than those guys and his team is better next year.

Most coaches are hired from the mid majors - it doesn't mean they can't apply the same principles at a Power 5 school.



Fran McCaffery (Siena, MAAC)
John Groce (Ohio, MAC)
Matt Painter (Southern Illinois, MVC)
Chris Collins (first-team coach)
Pat Chambers (first-team coach)
Richard Pitino (Florida Atlantic, Sun Belt)


This post was edited on 3/15 1:38 PM by Aggs
 
I live in Columbus and the coach at OSU is Thad Matta. OSU has either won or come in 2nd in the BIG just about every year.

This year they came in 6th. Anybody know the reason?

Is Thad Matta no longer a great coach?
 
Originally posted by Aggs:
Jay Wright and Mike Brey coached at Hofstra and Delaware, respectively. Not saying Bobby Hurley Jr. has the same resume when they left the American East, but you can make an educated guess and project to the next level.

Most coaches are hired from the mid majors - it doesn't mean they can't apply the same principles at a Power 5 school.




This post was edited on 3/15 3:33 PM by Aggs
What it means is this..... they recruited better than their competition at that level. If it's mid major talent, they had better mid major talent. Talent wins

If anyone thinks Jordan will not be able to recruit at this level at Rutgers.... that's debatable, especially after 1 full class
 
Historically mid major coaches have had more success and are hired more frequently than NBA coaches. There's a reason for that.

Hurley taking Buffalo to the dance is more valuable to me than anything a coach does in the NBA - and that has nothing to do with how much the NBA coach knows.


This post was edited on 3/15 3:58 PM by Aggs
 
He has 2 classes, let's see what comes in this spring and next fall If he does a lousy job then, the debate is over
Posted from Rivals Mobile

This post was edited on 3/15 4:00 PM by ruman
 
Originally posted by RU-Choppin-Ohio:
I live in Columbus and the coach at OSU is Thad Matta. OSU has either won or come in 2nd in the BIG just about every year.

This year they came in 6th. Anybody know the reason?

Is Thad Matta no longer a great coach?
this does not even make sense....OSU is dancing yet again, you are trying to quibble on why he finished 6th...its a tough league but and that underscores how this isn't a right fit for a NBA guy like Jordan
 
"Hurley did a good job at Buffalo but to compare that to playing against B1G level competition is silly. Buffalo wins ZERO games in the B1G."

Of course, they're two different leagues-BIG with superior talent. I am not saying Buffalo would beat Rutgers, although they probably would. We are at best a low mid major team.

I am saying that Hurley took a team without that much talent and won. I still support EJ, but he shouldn't have lost the games he lost this year. 8 or so 15-20 point losses? That's not good. We weren't that outmatched.

I am just saying- Hurley did a good job and EJ didn't exactly wow me this year. And this is someone who is a big EJ supporter. I thought the team would win, compete and not get blown out too often. No matter what talent we had. We won 10 games, competed 6, and got blown out a lot.

Do you think Hurley wouldn't succeed here? It doesn't even matter anymore because he's not coming here. But if in two years EJ is at the same place he was this year, we're in trouble and he is probably gone. I am not writing EJ or this program off, but next year has to be different.
 
Don't think there is Hurley hating going on , but people tired of hearing Bob Sr, Danny and/or Bobby should be RU's HC.
Wasn't that long ago there was a bring in Senior moment, then it went to : we want Danny.
Now since Danny turned RU down ( so the we want crowd almost got its wish, except Danny wanted no pasrt of what RU had to offer), not the Bobby please come cry is being heard and don't expect that plea to be answered unless Bobby gets what Danny demanded .

Rutgers hired Jordan because no one with a guaranteed future as a Major conference head coach or a name brand looking for employment will take the job unless Rutgers is willing to pay the going rate for top HCs , along with the years that candidate wants the contract to be before he'll consider accepting the position and RU will have to invest in their MBB program, or look for someone else.

Miller and Bobby Hurley won't come because unless RU does what it takes to succeed, they will be destroying their career trying to make a joke respectable without help from the RU administration and running a program on empty because RU boosters
don't think their donating to the program will help , because Rutgers administration won't spend any money on it.
Win and their invest in RU MBB's future, but to win , RU has has to spend more than it's willing , so RU MBB has a chance
to be a winner.

If I were to speculate who would come to RU under the terms Eddie Jordan did, I would rule out name brands looking for a spot, the usual top assistant,respected upper mid major HCs and look at the lower Mid major HCs , because the lower level mid major HCs would look at RU as a shortcut to fame, instead of the job killer that those who are expected to land major conference jobs in the immediate future would look at being the RU HC with the lack of support they know they will get.
I think the HCs that are looking at a long term career and feel their shot at the top is coming, will look at RU more as a future killer, not an opportunity.
Those who link they might have to move up one more slot before the top jobs are available to them, might look at RU as a shortcut and some might feel taking the RU job is worth the risk , knowing that failure means a mid major HC career probably will be the best future they can expect.

RU has proven to be a career killer since Tom Young left , for the greener pastures of Old Dominion
Name a HC that left RU for a better job .
Waters became a career mid major HC after leaving RU, where did the other ex RU HCs land.
question.r191677.gif
 
So how have all our non-Hurley coaches done at a Rutgers?
 
You can't leave for a better job when your not sucessful. In fact, the only coach that has been a head coach anywhere after Rutgers since Tom Young is Waters. That's crazy
 
Originally posted by MadRU:
So how have all our non-Hurley coaches done at a Rutgers?
No matter how they did, every Hurley is not going to be in the picture , unless Rutgers invests in MBB.
Danny was offered before Eddie was and turned RU down, don't think Bobby will consider moving up to
RU unless he gets what Danny demanded and probably a few of his own.

Hell Rutgers might not be considered a step up from Buffalo, the way RU supports its MBB program.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT