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Are the CBs good enough to sneak an 8 in the box more to stop the run?

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Scarlet Shack

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Guys

It's no secret that since coming into the big ten we have had a huge three year issue stopping the run.

Now...part of the problem during some of that era was that we had the darn safeties playing so far back to protect the corners that they were just not in a position to offer run support

Flash forward to now...we have Wharton and Austin ready for a big year ...and aren't green anymore. Hayes is ready for bigger things ...though corner depth is a concern. The corners aren't inexperienced anymore

Sure; The linebackers are less green but still a question and dline has questions ....so outmaning teams at the line of scrimmage can only help the run defense ....

So....Are the corners ready to be on an island a lot more often to bring that safety into the box late before the snap to help stuff the run.

Think it's a big question mark and the answer to it is the difference between another year of giving up way too many running yards and having a much improved rushing defense ...

Which I think will be the difference in a few ball games

Fire away with comments
 
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I hope that they are good enough. That'll change the whole defensive scheme if we can let them cover without help. I think I certain situations and against certain teams we can/should try this.
 
This is one of a hundred ???????? that we must pose. As time goes on my hope is that the ????diminish.
 
phs73rc77gsm83 said:
I hope that they are good enough. That'll change the whole defensive scheme if we can let them cover without help. I think I certain situations and against certain teams we can/should try this.
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I don't think they got a lot of help in coverage last year.
 
3rdandLong21 said:
Against good teams, no they aren't. Against mediocre/bad teams, yes, they are.
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If you were to add "IMHO" next to that opinion, it would at least be acknowledged. But, to infer some sense of inside knowledge, or your definition of what makes an ideal DB, puts you in a very arrogant light. Which, I'm sure was not the intent........right?
 
They are expected to be our top unit. So if they cannot play on an island more this season, then I believe it's going to be another long year.
 
Ash spent time talking about now having LBs with enough size. Needs guys in the 230-240 range and last year there want enough size or experience at LB. Surprisingly he said the DL had enough size last year. It should be interesting to see if the added size and experience gives the defense the ability to match up.
 
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Also, it's must be noted that teams knew RU couldn't move the ball. They also knew that the corners were the strength of the defense. So if you continue to run the ball there was almost no way to lose. If the offense can significantly improve teams will have to be more aggressive.
 
KnightsofChrome said:
If you were to add "IMHO" next to that opinion, it would at least be acknowledged. But, to infer some sense of inside knowledge, or your definition of what makes an ideal DB, puts you in a very arrogant light. Which, I'm sure was not the intent........right?
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Gotcha. Kinda like having to answer "what is" before answering a jeopardy question?

Yes, it was just an opinion. I'm not one to claim inside knowledge lol.

They are a talented group, but some of those offenses we play are lethal and they would get exposed "imho"
 
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Our secondary will be in shutdown mode ... three picks ... one for a TD ... upset win!!!
 
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Seems to me that we have to see how much pressure our DL can put on QBs when playing teams with a quality OL before we can determine how much and how often we can leave the CBs on an island.

I think that is as important a factor as the relative strength of our CBs.
 
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needmorecowbell said:
Ash spent time talking about now having LBs with enough size. Needs guys in the 230-240 range and last year there want enough size or experience at LB. Surprisingly he said the DL had enough size last year. It should be interesting to see if the added size and experience gives the defense the ability to match up.
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And on offense we need to improve our passing game and Gus Edwards needs to get us more 1St downs on 3rd and short...
 
If our offense was not so horrible last year i think.our defense would have been much improved over the previous year. They were just worn out being on the field 75% of the game with no depth....no team would survive under those circumstances. I think team will be much improved this year

I think we need a 6 or 7 deep at D-end and rotate in and out we need guys to get after the ball every down
 
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When you have a very good secondary with at least one elite player like we do, then it allows you to blitz all day and get away with it. This is what the Steelers did forever first with Woodson then with Carnell Lake then with Polamalu. I hope that we do the same.
 
I would want to encourage teams to run on Rutgers rather than passing against the D. Running takes time to score. Passing leads to quick scores.
I would much rather see the d-backs up closer to the receivers on the line. The 10 yard+ cushion off the line, before the snap becomes very annoying when the is no chance to cover a pass 5 yards from the line of scrimmage.
 
[Edit: I need to read more carefully.. thought OP was asking about teams stacking the box not being afraid of our passing game.. must have read CB as QB and jumped to conclusions]

This is one of my criticisms of Flood and then DM... the kinds of play calls and throws that can defeat and punish 8 in the box run-blitzes is something ANY QB on your depth chart should be able to make. All it requires is TIMING which comes from PRACTICE. And the right play-calls.

That we could not do this well.. FOR YEARS.. is an indictment of how the team is coached and practices more than quality of players.

Again.. in my opinion.
 
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miketd1 said:
Google "Chris Ash" + "cover 4"

Both safeties play closer to the line and "read run" in base.

Because our CBs are considered a strength, I expect to see the safeties play the run very aggressively.
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along with much improved DL and LB play, I think we'll fare much better vs. the run this year, vs last year.
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
This is one of my criticisms of Flood and then DM... the kinds of play calls and throws that can defeat and punish 8 in the box run-blitzes is something ANY QB on your depth chart should be able to make. All it requires is TIMING which comes from PRACTICE. And the right play-calls.

That we could not do this well.. FOR YEARS.. is an indictment of how the team is coached and practices more than quality of players.

Again.. in my opinion.
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It helps when the QB has time and receivers can get separation quickly. Against most of the teams we played last year, both things were in short supply.
 
We have to be creative on defense. Wisconsin moves guys around to cause confusion. Their safety caputo was a pain in the ass.

Thank God the days of the safeties being 20 yards off the ball are over. You never saw them on tv.
 
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We haven't ever shown that we can defend the long ball one on one. If I'm an OC, when RU moves 8 into the box to stop the run, I audible to play-action pass with verticals on the outside. If my pass protection holds up I long-ball RU to shreds.
 
read option said:
We haven't ever shown that we can defend the long ball one on one. If I'm an OC, when RU moves 8 into the box to stop the run, I audible to play-action pass with verticals on the outside. If my pass protection holds up I long-ball RU to shreds.
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Other teams seem willing to throw to a spot and let WRs run under it... even in good coverage.

GS did CB man coverage and had safeties wheeling deep or in strong run support mode all the time... and even then we'd get QBs throwing the ball to spots to negate the blitz.

Still.. instead of 8 in the box.. I think we need more variance on who blitzes and how often. I want to see some DBs getting sacks this season. Pressure the pass and I'll allow teams their 4 yards and a cloud of dust and eat clock offenses. Invite them to run and run-blitz and sack them. We need LBs like field generals who can read plays pre-snap and get everyone into the right adjustments.

That was the big difference in 2006, imo. On paper, we should have been worse on D that in 2005.. or so we all said on this board. But we saw the safeties play in sync and the LBs make great reads and the whole defense moved immediately on the snap.. always going somewhere.. and fast. No indecision. We saw a lot of gang tackles.. got every loose ball... and while it did open up huge wholes on occasion and allowed some big plays.. it mostly worked.

I'm for that.
 
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read option said:
We haven't ever shown that we can defend the long ball one on one. If I'm an OC, when RU moves 8 into the box to stop the run, I audible to play-action pass with verticals on the outside. If my pass protection holds up I long-ball RU to shreds.
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We have to find a way to pressure the QB. The best CBs in college can only shut down a competent receiver for so long.
 
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mildone said:
Seems to me that we have to see how much pressure our DL can put on QBs when playing teams with a quality OL before we can determine how much and how often we can leave the CBs on an island.

I think that is as important a factor as the relative strength of our CBs.
Click to expand...

As stated ...my idea of putting the corners on island was to help in run defense support by adding another guy in the box and not so much to blitz and pressure the Qb on pass plays
 
It will work until an opponent decides to line up 3 or 4 WRs. This approach works against pro style offenses, assuming that the DL isn't getting blown off the ball. How many B1G teams play that way down in and down out anymore? MSU? Wisconsin? Michigan? Offenses have changed. Even Alabama changed the focus of their recruiting at the safety position from hard-hitting thumpers to athletes who could stay with slot receivers in space. Putting your CBs on an island means you have to get to the QB consistently.
 
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Expect opposing teams to play action to see if our DBs bite in the fake, to get their WRs loose.

UWash will do it until they find out how good our DBs are in recognizing the fake.
 
Scarlet Shack said:
Guys

It's no secret that since coming into the big ten we have had a huge three year issue stopping the run.

Now...part of the problem during some of that era was that we had the darn safeties playing so far back to protect the corners that they were just not in a position to offer run support

Flash forward to now...we have Wharton and Austin ready for a big year ...and aren't green anymore. Hayes is ready for bigger things ...though corner depth is a concern. The corners aren't inexperienced anymore

Sure; The linebackers are less green but still a question and dline has questions ....so outmaning teams at the line of scrimmage can only help the run defense ....

So....Are the corners ready to be on an island a lot more often to bring that safety into the box late before the snap to help stuff the run.

Think it's a big question mark and the answer to it is the difference between another year of giving up way too many running yards and having a much improved rushing defense ...

Which I think will be the difference in a few ball games

Fire away with comments
Click to expand...
Stopping the run will be our biggest challenge. Teams are definitely going to run on us.
 
miketd1 said:
Google "Chris Ash" + "cover 4"

Both safeties play closer to the line and "read run" in base.

Because our CBs are considered a strength, I expect to see the safeties play the run very aggressively.
Click to expand...

This is correct. Also, if you examine the Ash defense further, the key to it all are the linebackers, specifically, the speed of the linebackers and ability to drop into coverage or converge to stop the run. Very similar to Schiano's Tampa 2.

One thing to keep in mind is that Austin played very well last year. I know hard to notice because of the results. But believe it or not, he did. So, IMHO, I'm not so sure that just because you can put him on an island that all of a sudden the defense will be better. First, the other CBs have to improve, especially Wharton, who was targeted last year (for good reason). Second, the line backing corp really need to step up. Despite the accolades of most improved, in the end I am not sure they are B1G caliber - they simply don't have the speed - hope they prove me wrong. This is why, I think you will see a few of the freshmen play this year - Fogg, Fatukasi and Simmons.

That said, I am very hopeful that the D-Line will be much better this year led by seniors Turay and Joseph. Despite the narrative that you hear with woe is to us we can't recruit D-linemen. IMHO, I actually think the quality and depth of our d-line is very good. Guys like Wilkens, Bateky, Wiafe could finally break out and the young guys like Turner, Bordner and Duggan, I think all have the ability to become special players. Pressure on the QB will mask the speed deficiencies of the second level.

No, I don't think we have enough (yet) to go toe to toe with Ohio State, but I do believe (or maybe hope) that what we have right now can beat Maryland, Indiana, Illinois and Purdue.
 
read option said:
We haven't ever shown that we can defend the long ball one on one. If I'm an OC, when RU moves 8 into the box to stop the run, I audible to play-action pass with verticals on the outside. If my pass protection holds up I long-ball RU to shreds.
Click to expand...

I feel confident in our corners, who have gotten progressively better each year. If a Big Ten Team beat us with the long ball, than so be it. Most of the big ten quarterbacks aren't good enough to do so, so i'm willing to take that chance. All our resources should be expended to stop the run. Only then can we be competitive in conference play.
 
Oh how I miss Schiano' s better defenses and the NFL caliber players he turned out.
 
Abro1975 said:
Expect opposing teams to play action to see if our DBs bite in the fake, to get their WRs loose.

UWash will do it until they find out how good our DBs are in recognizing the fake.
Click to expand...
Perhaps this is another reason why GS used to coach them to play man and not look at the QB or look back for the ball.
 
The Washington game should be considered a separate one game season..They are just way too good. I don't want to get carried away with the result regardless of where we land after the final snap.IMHO
 
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