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Ash can grow into a good head coach

rutgersal

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Lou Holtz has always been fond of saying the difference between a 1st time head coach and a successful head coach is all the mistakes the successful head coach has made. The last 3+ years, we’ve witnessed a plethora of mistakes from Chris Ash. Thankfully, he’s learned from his mistakes, and now knows how to work to eliminate/ mitigate them.

His biggest mistake was to stop recruiting Florida. This deprived us of much needed talent, which he was unable to replenish by recruiting Ohio. Thankfully, we are back to recruiting Florida at full force, with Noah Joseph and Kolby Smith spending much time in Florida. Florida recruits are a key component of the incoming class which will help us get Big Ten competitive.

The next mistake was having a coaching staff that wasn’t ready for prime time. Now,I can look at each of these coaches and say that they have the skill set to get the job done.

Lastly, not having a good backup quarterback you can count on to win, was another mistake.
Ash has recruited mcclane carter so I feel comfortable with the talent at quarterback.

Now people are fond of pointing out that he’s getting $2M, and shouldn’t be making mistakes. Everything is relative. The top coaches in the profession, like Jim Harbaugh, make at least $8 M. If Ash can turn Rutgers around, he will make more, probably the 3.5 M that Fleck is getting.

I think Ash will be a much better coach going forward, than prior, because he’s learned from his mistakes.
 
Hmmm. We better hope you' re right. Actually Ash better hope you're right. His rope is getting shorter.
 
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Lou Holtz has always been fond of saying the difference between a 1st time head coach and a successful head coach is all the mistakes the successful head coach has made. The last 3+ years, we’ve witnessed a plethora of mistakes from Chris Ash. Thankfully, he’s learned from his mistakes, and now knows how to work to eliminate/ mitigate them.

His biggest mistake was to stop recruiting Florida. This deprived us of much needed talent, which he was unable to replenish by recruiting Ohio. Thankfully, we are back to recruiting Florida at full force, with Noah Joseph and Kolby Smith spending much time in Florida. Florida recruits are a key component of the incoming class which will help us get Big Ten competitive.

The next mistake was having a coaching staff that wasn’t ready for prime time. Now,I can look at each of these coaches and say that they have the skill set to get the job done.

Lastly, not having a good backup quarterback you can count on to win, was another mistake.
Ash has recruited mcclane carter so I feel comfortable with the talent at quarterback.

Now people are fond of pointing out that he’s getting $2M, and shouldn’t be making mistakes. Everything is relative. The top coaches in the profession, like Jim Harbaugh, make at least $8 M. If Ash can turn Rutgers around, he will make more, probably the 3.5 M that Fleck is getting.

I think Ash will be a much better coach going forward, than prior, because he’s learned from his mistakes.

LMAO if you think Carter was brought here to backup Art.
 
I certainly hope Ash improves, the team starts winning and he's retained. I have seen 0 signs that this will happen.

Pretty much this.. but I would be more than happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
 
Probably with another school that's a better fit. I certainly don't root for him to fail at Rutgers, however, think his best days are ahead of him elsewhere.
 
If Ash can make RU FB a far more competitive team against the better programs this year I'll start supporting him.
But unless that happens this season, feel he needs to go and bring in someone else to try and turn RU FB from the type of program it has been under Ash's leadership.
 
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Probably with another school that's a better fit. I certainly don't root for him to fail at Rutgers, however, think his best days are ahead of him elsewhere.

People were saying the same thing about Schiano. Hard to be positive when you can’t see results. It I was encouraged by what I saw last season, where the team played hard the 2nd half of the season and got better.
 
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People were saying the same thing about Schiano. Hard to be positive when you can’t see results. It I was encouraged by what I saw last season, where the team played hard the 2nd half of the season and got better.

Eh, it could be fools gold though. The team was worse than the previous two seasons. In 2016, we played well against Iowa, Minnesota and Indiana. So you could’ve said the same thing three years ago.
 
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... and how about not getting any of the top 10 DTs on his recruiting list ... is that not a problem?
 
People were saying the same thing about Schiano. Hard to be positive when you can’t see results. It I was encouraged by what I saw last season, where the team played hard the 2nd half of the season and got better.

Schiano = a different time with different challenges. The only similarities between the two are 1st time Head Coaches from DC backgrounds, having to deal with NJ HS players that still don't want to play at Rutgers and most recently they both were Co-DCs at Ohio State. Otherwise, they couldn't be any more different.
Even when Schiano went 5-7 and 4-7 in his Years 3 and 4 with WTF losses, he had and expressed a vision that players and fans bought into. Used to say all the time during his early years, love Schiano as a Coach every day of the week except on Saturdays when he had to coach the game. Schiano inspired confidence. I can't say I feel that way about Ash.
Please tell me Ash's vision? To hunt?
 
"Ash can grow into a good head coach.""
ASH has gone O for two B10 seasons and because there were some 'close games' that means 10 years from now he may win some games?

You are insane Al.
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The diffference between Schiano and Ash is that Schiano took over a program that was at absolute bottom. So people were happy even with records like 4-7 because they reflected promise, and because anyone could see the upgrade in talent. Ash, however, took over a program that had recently had success. So people naturally are less patient with him.

May I also say that it is unreasonable to expect Ash to be anywhere near as successful as Schiano in recruiting Florida. Has everybody forgotten that Schiano was at Miami, and had many connections in the state? Ash has nothing like that there. Ash does have probably have some appeal in Ohio, though, ,and I can't understand why he can't bring in some good players from there.
 
The diffference between Schiano and Ash is that Schiano took over a program that was at absolute bottom. So people were happy even with records like 4-7 because they reflected promise, and because anyone could see the upgrade in talent. Ash, however, took over a program that had recently had success. So people naturally are less patient with him.

May I also say that it is unreasonable to expect Ash to be anywhere near as successful as Schiano in recruiting Florida. Has everybody forgotten that Schiano was at Miami, and had many connections in the state? Ash has nothing like that there. Ash does have probably have some appeal in Ohio, though, ,and I can't understand why he can't bring in some good players from there.

Rutgers has more appeal for Florida kids than Ohio kids
 
The Midwest kids grew up wanting to play Ohio state or Michigan and if not, they prefer the other 10 Midwest schools. Our non-competetives with OSU and UM really hurts our perception in the eyes of Midwest kids.

Florida kids have always been more open about going far away, and I think NYC is a strong draw, at least more so for the Florida kids.
 
The Midwest kids grew up wanting to play Ohio state or Michigan and if not, they prefer the other 10 Midwest schools. Our non-competetives with OSU and UM really hurts our perception in the eyes of Midwest kids.

Florida kids have always been more open about going far away, and I think NYC is a strong draw, at least more so for the Florida kids.

You're right that Florida kids may not be aware of how terrible we are, although I assume that any Florida kid would look us up. But Florida kids grow up dreaming of playing for Florida or FSU (or Alabama), and I think your theory that they aore eager to come to NYC is without basis. Midwesterners have been coming to NY for generations, which is why there are so many B1G alumni here (and why having Rutgers in the conference is a good marketing tool, despite how putrid we are in football.) Florida kids know they're in a boom state, and have no reason to come here. Beside, we're not really in NYC -- it's an hour trip by rail. We're New Jersey, and you probably know we are exporting, not importing, population. (Actually, so is New York.

In any case, I'm sure you would agree that it's unjustifiable to blame Ash for our problems in Florida when he does not have one-hundredth of the connections that Schiano, a Miami assistant, did twenty years ago.
 
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I still have a few fingers and toes on the Ash ship, but it is very hard. I really hope Art can turn things around. This Spring Game did not show me any improvement on defense or offense. Yes, I know you never know after being at a Spring Game, but nothing about the team seems to be getting better. We do seem to be doing fairly well in the transfer market though.
 
People were saying the same thing about Schiano. Hard to be positive when you can’t see results. It I was encouraged by what I saw last season, where the team played hard the 2nd half of the season and got better.

You are both actually right.

Sometimes (most times?) a 1st time head coach at this level truggles and needs a change of scenery to reassess the pros and cons of what he did and his process.
Happens to alot of coaches - nothing wrong with that.

However, like you referenced, 1st time HCs do sometimes have success - like Schiano.
The complete dismissal of hiring a 1st time HCs doesnt make sense but just have to recognize that they are more likely to fail.
But, like Schiano, not always.
 
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Schiano = a different time with different challenges. The only similarities between the two are 1st time Head Coaches from DC backgrounds, having to deal with NJ HS players that still don't want to play at Rutgers and most recently they both were Co-DCs at Ohio State. Otherwise, they couldn't be any more different.
Even when Schiano went 5-7 and 4-7 in his Years 3 and 4 with WTF losses, he had and expressed a vision that players and fans bought into. Used to say all the time during his early years, love Schiano as a Coach every day of the week except on Saturdays when he had to coach the game. Schiano inspired confidence. I can't say I feel that way about Ash.
Please tell me Ash's vision? To hunt?
this is on point...ash is a midwest blah....shiano is a jersey macho fire you up ,game day coach....you have to be able to motivate....lombardi was the best, with george allen not far behind...get pissed off, dam it....that might be a shallow view of the situation, but, the truth is ,ash aint jersey.
 
Obviously, Al is dealing in the LAW OF PROBABLE IMPROBABILITY by David Hand. It is just a matter of time (no matter how long that may be) before something he claims will happen ...will happen. :pray:
 
I had a pimple that grew into a blackhead and then developed into a mole. Does that count?

I probably could have 'popped' it initially. Now it probably needs to be surgically removed.
 
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Al, your analysis is, as usual, very optimistic and may be valid. However, what have you seen that makes you think that
Ash has recognized that HE, HIS MISTAKES, HIS DECISIONS, have been wrong and need be changed. Not all HC's that have poor starts to their careers learn from their mistakes and grow into the job. Many just continue to fail and are done. I do not know him on a personal level so I do not know how stubborn he may be. I hope, I mean I really hope, you are right and he grows into this and things turn around and we have a great program going forward but I must admit that I am not that optimistic. Hopeful, prayerful. But not optimistic
 
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Some of what Al said makes sense. Although I almost gagged on my own vomit when he said the problem was lack of a backup QB. I'll say it again -- if Sitkowski is the best we have going into the season, we are thoroughly screwed. You just don't get that much better in one year. Maybe the following year, if he doesn't pout and transfer when he doesn't start. But suck doesn't begin to describe the travesty that was our QB play last year.

That said, Ash lost a lot of us at the very beginning when he made it sound like "real" football is now at Rutgers because he, the great Chris Ash from Ohio State, has arrived. We don't have much recent history, but we do have a lot of it and a lot to be proud of, and him coming here and basically pissing all over it really left a sour taste. Anything less than immediate success was not going to erase it.

Obviously, it's still there.
 
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You're right that Florida kids may not be aware of how terrible we are, although I assume that any Florida kid would look us up. But Florida kids grow up dreaming of playing for Florida or FSU (or Alabama), and I think your theory that they aore eager to come to NYC is without basis. Midwesterners have been coming to NY for generations, which is why there are so many B1G alumni here (and why having Rutgers in the conference is a good marketing tool, despite how putrid we are in football.) Florida kids know they're in a boom state, and have no reason to come here. Beside, we're not really in NYC -- it's an hour trip by rail. We're New Jersey, and you probably know we are exporting, not importing, population. (Actually, so is New York.

In any case, I'm sure you would agree that it's unjustifiable to blame Ash for our problems in Florida when he does not have one-hundredth of the connections that Schiano, a Miami assistant, did twenty years ago.

The basis is the continuous stream of Florida kids who came to Rutgers from 2001-2016, and now restarted in 2019. It’s quite telling that Ash got as many FL kids in one class (2019) as he did OH kids in four classes, (2), despite spending a tremendous amount of time and effort in Ohio.

It’s not a question of blame, but it’s a question of recognizing and correcting mistakes , which Ash has done. He hired resources to recruit Florida, such as Noah Joseph and Kilby Smith. I wish he’d made similar moves sooner. Similarly, Flood didn’t have a lot of Florida connections, but he still successfully recruited the state.
 
The basis is the continuous stream of Florida kids who came to Rutgers from 2001-2016, and now restarted in 2019. It’s quite telling that Ash got as many FL kids in one class (2019) as he did OH kids in four classes, (2), despite spending a tremendous amount of time and effort in Ohio.

It’s not a question of blame, but it’s a question of recognizing and correcting mistakes , which Ash has done. He hired resources to recruit Florida, such as Noah Joseph and Kilby Smith. I wish he’d made similar moves sooner. Similarly, Flood didn’t have a lot of Florida connections, but he still successfully recruited the state.

2001-2016 is obviously Schiano and carryover from Schiano. As for 2019, one year does not a trend make., although heavens knows it is a hopeful sign. I hope you are right that Schiano is learning, and I know we all hope that the results on the field begin to reflect that. Certainly last year's results did not.
 
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People were saying the same thing about Schiano. Hard to be positive when you can’t see results. It I was encouraged by what I saw last season, where the team played hard the 2nd half of the season and got better.
What was most encouraging? The offensive futility or the sieve-like defense?
 
Lou Holtz has always been fond of saying the difference between a 1st time head coach and a successful head coach is all the mistakes the successful head coach has made. The last 3+ years, we’ve witnessed a plethora of mistakes from Chris Ash. Thankfully, he’s learned from his mistakes, and now knows how to work to eliminate/ mitigate them.

His biggest mistake was to stop recruiting Florida. This deprived us of much needed talent, which he was unable to replenish by recruiting Ohio. Thankfully, we are back to recruiting Florida at full force, with Noah Joseph and Kolby Smith spending much time in Florida. Florida recruits are a key component of the incoming class which will help us get Big Ten competitive.

The next mistake was having a coaching staff that wasn’t ready for prime time. Now,I can look at each of these coaches and say that they have the skill set to get the job done.

Lastly, not having a good backup quarterback you can count on to win, was another mistake.
Ash has recruited mcclane carter so I feel comfortable with the talent at quarterback.

Now people are fond of pointing out that he’s getting $2M, and shouldn’t be making mistakes. Everything is relative. The top coaches in the profession, like Jim Harbaugh, make at least $8 M. If Ash can turn Rutgers around, he will make more, probably the 3.5 M that Fleck is getting.

I think Ash will be a much better coach going forward, than prior, because he’s learned from his mistakes.
There is no question Ash made a ton of mistakes. Did people really think a first time head coach was not going to make mistakes ? We all made mistakes at our first job .
 
Even the great coaches make mistakes. Some first time Head Coaches coming from coordinator/assistant roles are successful within the first few years, others not so much. Using the fact that he's a first time Head Coach as an excuse for the team's 1-11 performance in Year 3 is not right.
 
Even the great coaches make mistakes. Some first time Head Coaches coming from coordinator/assistant roles are successful within the first few years, others not so much. Using the fact that he's a first time Head Coach as an excuse for the team's 1-11 performance in Year 3 is not right.
No one is making excuses. We are 1 and 11 and that’s what we are and it sucks. The point the OP was making is fans acted like we got Saban and mistakes would not be part of the equation . They kept losing their minds over mistakes made by a first time HC. That should not surprise anyone. Heck , every single day there are numerous posts harping on Ash hiring DM to be OC . We all know that was disaster but do we have to revisit it multiple times per day ?
 
And if you plant magic beans maybe they will grow into a bean stalk and you can walk on a cloud
 
No one is making excuses. We are 1 and 11 and that’s what we are and it sucks. The point the OP was making is fans acted like we got Saban and mistakes would not be part of the equation . They kept losing their minds over mistakes made by a first time HC. That should not surprise anyone. Heck , every single day there are numerous posts harping on Ash hiring DM to be OC . We all know that was disaster but do we have to revisit it multiple times per day ?

We're we don't agree is what the expectations of the fans were and continue to be. Most posters and fans simply want to see signs of any improvements and some form of a pulse. Nobody is calling for the perfect season and Rose Bowl victories. There is literally nothing that anyone can point to that indicates we're going to be more competitive and make a bowl game in the future at this point. Not recruiting, not quality of roster via player development, not game planning/scheme, not in game coaching, not player behavior (i.e. reduction of legal issues) and so on.
Instead we see posts of why Ash should be on the 5 year plan, the 7 year plan and sometimes longer. There's a hell of a lot more of it's all Flood's fault (although Flood's not been in the building since 2015) or he's a first time coach, let him learn on the job, compared to we expect Saban level performance.
 
There is no question Ash made a ton of mistakes. Did people really think a first time head coach was not going to make mistakes ? We all made mistakes at our first job .

Sure we all made mistakes and understood he was going to make them too. But if you assess every aspect of the on the field product and roster we have... what has he done right? Rb, cb, and kicking game is all I come up with. Everything else program wise has regressed and we are the worst P5 team in America. How can you defend that type of performance
 
Sure we all made mistakes and understood he was going to make them too. But if you assess every aspect of the on the field product and roster we have... what has he done right? Rb, cb, and kicking game is all I come up with. Everything else program wise has regressed and we are the worst P5 team in America. How can you defend that type of performance

Good points. IMO what's really scary is the Lines. This is not the Big/Pac 12s where games can be won on the perimeter and/or with skill positions. Although i've somewhat tuned out when it comes to following recruiting due to frustration, I believe this staff is weakest in terms of recruiting players on the Lines. The future doesn't appear rosy. I know we have experience coming back on the OL and here's hoping Rossomando is a magician, as last year's OL performance was dismal.
 
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