BB Recruiting Aundre Hyatt transfers to Rutgers

[RW90]

I think we may miss Mathis more than people like to believe. His ceiling was much higher than Caleb's, or even JY for that matter. In the beginning of last season he was one of our better players, but once his minutes were cut in favor of Caleb and JY his game really tailed off on both ends.

 

[fluoxetine]

Yeah, none of this is convincing. We lost three key defenders, maybe our best. Just musing into existence great defensive skills for new recruits and those who played like 9 minutes doesn't work. It's guesswork and outcome-oriented analysis. We'll have to see. I agree, however, that Pike is a very good defense and rebounding coach and that provides reason for some optimism.

Even the terrible teams he had to start played solid defense. I think Pike can get at WORST decent defense out of just about anyone. I am much more concerned about offense.

 

[fluoxetine]

I think we may miss Mathis more than people like to believe. His ceiling was much higher than Caleb's, or even JY for that matter. In the beginning of last season he was one of our better players, but once his minutes were cut in favor of Caleb and JY his game really tailed off on both ends.

I see this narrative a lot but his minutes were cut for a reason.

 

[willisneverrana43]

As is often the case on this site, data mining is the basis for most trips outside reality. Pick a subsection of a season--or, as here, a subsection of a career--and then make an overall point. So, here, pick 12 games to argue that Mathis was not an excellent defender or one of our best. Reality doesn't work that way, and stats aren't properly used that way. Now, if you want to make some sort of point about Mathis's last 12 games, have at it. That's fine. And when you see him tear it up next year on defense at St. John's, I'm sure you can also find a set of games that weren't as good as others. And then make a point about that set of games. But, of course, all of this is unrelated to the point that he was an excellent defender and one of our best. Or that he will be the same for St. John's next year.

We lost 3 of our best defenders, maybe the 3 best. I don't know if that hurts too much to recognize, or when players are gone they must be reevaluated as enemies. But none of those things makes reality not real.

 

[RUChoppin]

As is often the case on this site, data mining is the basis for most trips outside reality. Pick a subsection of a season--or, as here, a subsection of a career--and then make an overall point. So, here, pick 12 games to argue that Mathis was not an excellent defender or one of our best. Reality doesn't work that way, and stats aren't properly used that way. Now, if you want to make some sort of point about Mathis's last 12 games, have at it. That's fine. And when you see him tear it up next year on defense at St. John's, I'm sure you can also find a set of games that weren't as good as others. And then make a point about that set of games. But, of course, all of this is unrelated to the point that he was an excellent defender and one of our best. Or that he will be the same for St. John's next year.

We lost 3 of our best defenders, maybe the 3 best. I don't know if that hurts too much to recognize, or when players are gone they must be reevaluated as enemies. But none of those things makes reality not real.

The numbers just back up the eye test - Mathis' defense wasn't as good down the stretch as it was last year or in the first part of this year. I have no idea the reason for that - anything about the "why" is speculation. But while he was still an above average defender, he wasn't performing the way he had been, and his minutes suffered.

The "reality" is he lost his starting job and his minutes were cut by 40% once we hit February - dropping him to 7th in an 8-man rotation, ahead of only true freshman Omoruyi who was a reserve behind our most valuable player. As you say, "I don't know if that hurts too much to recognize".

His minutes largely went to McConnell, who had better production down the stretch in almost every area.

I hope SJU's scheme is more suited to him and he does tear it up over there. He seems like a good guy and is a warrior - he just lost out to other guys on the roster. I hope this transfer brings him the success he's been looking for.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Again, we lost 3 of our best defenders, maybe our top 3. It's becoming hard to determine what you're on about.

 

[Pancho1939]

Pikiell will primarily play man to man and we will be a top defensive team in the league. I know that because that is what Steve pikiell teams do. They play defense and rebound. They do at Rutgers and they did at stony Brook.

You guys need to stop worrying about everything. Only one team this year had a perfect mix of players. It was Baylor and they proved it. Even Gonzaga wasn’t perfect.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I think the team will miss Young and/or Mathis when they applied full court pressure that was used to eat up clock before settling in their half court defense. Of course, Pikiell also used some 3 Quarters press to do the same thing. We will probably see the latter more this year with the length of Geo, McConnell, Jones, Hyatt, Harper, Mag and Mulcahy. Only one guy may be able to apply full court pressure against a ball handling PG.......Jalen Miller.

Also...if anyone wants to criticize my opinion, I won't get offended...lol. That's just debating a topic.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Pikiell will primarily play man to man and we will be a top defensive team in the league. I know that because that is what Steve pikiell teams do. They play defense and rebound. They do at Rutgers and they did at stony Brook.

You guys need to stop worrying about everything. Only one team this year had a perfect mix of players. It was Baylor and they proved it. Even Gonzaga wasn’t perfect.

The team has played anywhere from good to great defense under Pike and has been anywhere from a decent to great rebounding team. If the limitations we have had on offense continue next year, then where the rebounding and defense fall next year on the continuum from good to great will mean an awful lot. So this is certainly a thing to discuss.

 

[GRU23]

I think people are forgetting the concept that in college, you can’t have your best players forever. You need different personel, which may mean you have to change your scheme a bit. Sure, we may have lost our two hounds and best defender overall in Myles, but now we have a team of players that all have the length and potential to guard at least three positions. Addition of Hyatt should also provide us something we were lacking last season to fill the Eugene role from a few years ago. People that call certain players bad defenders got to realize they’re saying that by comparing them to our other players, missing the fact that we are one of the best defensive teams in the country. We should still be a very good defensive team, and hopefully another year of development can help us place in the top half of the conference next year again.

 

[dpwhite]

Sports reference is the only site I can find that ranks players. Here’s how they ranked our team. The lower the number, the better. Mathis was ranked this season, the tenth best defender on the team not including walk-ones. I did include scholarship players but even if you only look at the rotation he was one of the worst this seasons. Harper and Young dropped significantly this season too:

2020-21 Rutgers Scarlet Knights Men 's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Rutgers Scarlet Knights Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I think people are forgetting the concept that in college, you can’t have your best players forever. You need different personel, which may mean you have to change your scheme a bit. Sure, we may have lost our two hounds and best defender overall in Myles, but now we have a team of players that all have the length and potential to guard at least three positions. Addition of Hyatt should also provide us something we were lacking last season to fill the Eugene role from a few years ago. People that call certain players bad defenders got to realize they’re saying that by comparing them to our other players, missing the fact that we are one of the best defensive teams in the country. We should still be a very good defensive team, and hopefully another year of development can help us place in the top half of the conference next year again.

I agree, IMO, there are a few ways to be very good perimeter defensive team and you see it both ways in the B1G.

OSU and PSU ( I think) did it with faster perimeter defenders that made penetration difficult.

A team like Rutgers tends to rely less on speed and more on longer defenders, help defense and denying the passing lanes with length.

When opposing coaches talk about the Rutgers defense, they always say how "long" they are....not how fast.

 

[RUChoppin]

Again, we lost 3 of our best defenders, maybe our top 3. It's becoming hard to determine what you're on about.

We lost our 2 best defenders. We'll just have to disagree on Mathis.

 

[Eagleton96]

Can we pull out the old "Young transfers to Rutgers" thread to see if the same people selling low on Hyatt were doing the same with Young?

If nothing else, this board is predictable.

Historically at RU, and other bottom feeders, when you got a former 4 star blue chip player that washed out at their first destination, it was reasonable to expect that there was a good reason they washed out at the first destination, and that the weren't suddenly going to blossom into a high major impact player. Totally reasonable expectation based on our history. Pike and GS are proving they recruit and develop players at a different level and that the expectations should change. But we are in transition and there is no real track record, so it's still too soon really to have any expectations. So if you are glass half empty or half full, there is plenty for you to go on.

 

[Eagleton96]

He’s not an offensive MVP, but he’’s easily the best returning defensive player on the team and not because everyone else is weak. He’s more of a half court player, but to say helps game is slow is crap. His footwork without the ball, on defense, and crashing the boards is excellent and he’s not athletically limited. He just isn’t a good shooter from long distance and he shot particularly bad last season. Your description better fits PM who I think will become more confident in his shot (which is decent) but while he can still improve on defense there’s definitely a ceiling.

He doesn't have a good first step off the drive. But he is quick generally. Quick hands, quick leaper, good lateral movement, quick spin move. He's getting stronger. He has a chance to take a big step. But so do others.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sports reference is the only site I can find that ranks players. Here’s how they ranked our team. The lower the number, the better. Mathis was ranked this season, the tenth best defender on the team not including walk-ones. I did include scholarship players but even if you only look at the rotation he was one of the worst this seasons. Harper and Young dropped significantly this season too:

2020-21 Rutgers Scarlet Knights Men 's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2020-21 Rutgers Scarlet Knights Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

You were a lousy QB, below average punter, and now this. I may hit the ignore button with this.

 

[soundcrib]

I think we may miss Mathis more than people like to believe. His ceiling was much higher than Caleb's, or even JY for that matter. In the beginning of last season he was one of our better players, but once his minutes were cut in favor of Caleb and JY his game really tailed off on both ends.

I’ll miss Mathis. He would make this team deeper and better.

 

[NickRU714]

Disagree. Should they return Geo and Harper will be two of the top 15 scorers in the B1G next season. And (imo) will find themselves on one of the three All-B1G teams. They are two of the top fifteen players in the conference if they come back (which is why I think they will). I think next years team will be on par offensively with the '19-'20 team and '20-'21 team. Time will tell.

For reference:

2020-2021 All games:
Harper - 14.9ppg
#13 in Big Ten

Baker - 10.4ppg
#34 in Big Ten

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/big-ten/2021-stats.html

2020-2021 Big Ten Conference Games
Harper - 13.8ppg
#18 in Big Ten

Baker - 10.7ppg

https://bigten.org/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2020&conf=true

All-Big Ten teams (voted by Coaches)
Harper - 3rd team
Baker - Honorable Mention

https://bigten.org/news/2021/3/9/ge...s-basketball-postseason-honors-announced.aspx

 

[higgins3]

You were a lousy QB, below average punter, and now this. I may hit the ignore button with this.

I am not surprised by those stats. Stats obviously are taken with a grain of salt. Mathis though was not heavily coordinated, and side to side was not that together. Straight line he was athletic. When you add in diagonal movement, he really struggled. I believe the same that Mathis was well overrated as a defender, and now there are some numbers that show it could be true.

 

[dpwhite]

You were a lousy QB, below average punter, and now this. I may hit the ignore button with this.

I was honestly surprised but wanted to find stats. Mathis was a very good defender his first couple of years here and did a great job on Carr when he subbed out for Young

 

[RUsojo]

The numbers just back up the eye test - Mathis' defense wasn't as good down the stretch as it was last year or in the first part of this year. I have no idea the reason for that - anything about the "why" is speculation. But while he was still an above average defender, he wasn't performing the way he had been, and his minutes suffered.

The "reality" is he lost his starting job and his minutes were cut by 40% once we hit February - dropping him to 7th in an 8-man rotation, ahead of only true freshman Omoruyi who was a reserve behind our most valuable player. As you say, "I don't know if that hurts too much to recognize".

His minutes largely went to McConnell, who had better production down the stretch in almost every area.

I hope SJU's scheme is more suited to him and he does tear it up over there. He seems like a good guy and is a warrior - he just lost out to other guys on the roster. I hope this transfer brings him the success he's been looking for.

I think Mathis was actually taken out before he started playing poorly and before McConnell starting playing average.

McConnell came back went 8 of 32 from the field his first 5 games and then got more PT than Mathis. Mathis went 14 of 45 during the same time coming off a stretch of play prior to that which was best of his career.

And he didn’t handle that well.

 

[Eagleton96]

The numbers just back up the eye test - Mathis' defense wasn't as good down the stretch as it was last year or in the first part of this year. I have no idea the reason for that - anything about the "why" is speculation. But while he was still an above average defender, he wasn't performing the way he had been, and his minutes suffered.

The "reality" is he lost his starting job and his minutes were cut by 40% once we hit February - dropping him to 7th in an 8-man rotation, ahead of only true freshman Omoruyi who was a reserve behind our most valuable player. As you say, "I don't know if that hurts too much to recognize".

His minutes largely went to McConnell, who had better production down the stretch in almost every area.

I hope SJU's scheme is more suited to him and he does tear it up over there. He seems like a good guy and is a warrior - he just lost out to other guys on the roster. I hope this transfer brings him the success he's been looking for.

Mathis hit a very big slump. But his body of work suggests he’ll likely snap out of it. A change of scenery is probably just what he needed to get his mojo back.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I think Mathis was actually taken out before he started playing poorly and before McConnell starting playing average.

McConnell came back went 8 of 32 from the field his first 5 games and then got more PT than Mathis. Mathis went 14 of 45 during the same time coming off a stretch go play prior to that which was best of his career.

And he didn’t handle that well.

He wasn’t suddenly “taken out” and the team’s defensive efficiency actually wasn’t that good prior to McConnell’s return. RHJ was on fire offensively. What really happened was RHJ cooled off and it impacted both sides of his game (Ron isn’t great on defense to begin with but he got worse when shots stopped falling - sulking on the other end). Tez wasn’t “bad” on defense but he just wasn’t what he was in prior seasons and RHJ’s sulking combined with that created massive holes in wing defense - we weren’t getting any stops. And he was playing out of control with turnovers. To make matters worse when we played JY and Geo together with him we were undersized so we also didn’t rebound well. The decrease in PT was gradual and not entirely Tez fault. But the efficiency numbers tell the accurate story of Caleb’s return changing the dynamic of the team defense and restoring Pike’s defense first philosophy. Some don’t like that style, and you’ve even suggested that Caleb somehow caused RHJ to shoot poorly. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. You see it as Caleb’s return (where he initially didn’t even play that much) caused the mid season slump. I see it as without his return, RU possibly endures an epic collapse and doesn’t make the tourney. By season’s end, our offensive stats had regressed to the RU norm (in line with the prior season). Bad - but still good enough to make the tourney. That was because of elite defense which wasn’t there without Caleb,

 

[RUDead]

He wasn’t suddenly “taken out” and the team’s defensive efficiency actually wasn’t that good prior to McConnell’s return. RHJ was on fire offensively. What really happened was RHJ cooled off and it impacted both sides of his game (Ron isn’t great on defense to begin with but he got worse when shots stopped falling - sulking on the other end). Tez wasn’t “bad” on defense but he just wasn’t what he was in prior seasons and RHJ’s sulking combined with that created massive holes in wing defense - we weren’t getting any stops. And he was playing out of control with turnovers. To make matters worse when we played JY and Geo together with him we were undersized so we also didn’t rebound well. The decrease in PT was gradual and not entirely Tez fault. But the efficiency numbers tell the accurate story of Caleb’s return changing the dynamic of the team defense and restoring Pike’s defense first philosophy. Some don’t like that style, and you’ve even suggested that Caleb somehow caused RHJ to shoot poorly. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. You see it as Caleb’s return (where he initially didn’t even play that much) caused the mid season slump. I see it as without his return, RU possibly endures an epic collapse and doesn’t make the tourney. By season’s end, our offensive stats had regressed to the RU norm (in line with the prior season). Bad - but still good enough to make the tourney. That was because of elite defense which wasn’t there without Caleb,

Exactly.

 

[Scarlet83]

If the kid was good enough to drop 10 ppg, he'd have played this spring. Pikiell can talk about out-of-bounds plays until he is blue in the face, but if Jones was ready, he would have played. Jones will be solid, but he is not scoring 10 points a game as a freshman in the 15-20 minutes he'll get a night.

Swing and a miss.

 

[LETSGORU91]

One more big and I think we dance again.

Hyatt is a really nice pick up especially replacing Tez, you’re giving up some speed for composure. I also think his 3 ball will be more utilized than At LSU where he was obviously not a focal point. He is big bodied and can bang. Good stroke.

not sure what caliber back up C is available.

Agreed. Hyatt should be an upgrade based on composure and hopefully consistency.

If you are a St. John's fan and you have the choice of trading Mathis for Hyatt I think you will get a big fat PASS

If he can nail even the majority of his layups, it sounds like he will fit in at St. Johns.

We must’ve watched different games. Outside of a few streaking scoring bursts - Montez just wasn’t very good after the Purdue game. No idea why but he didn’t add very much on defense as far as I can remember in any game.

You are correct. As a matter of fact, too many times, when a defender blew by from the top of the key for an uuncontested layup, I yelled out "who the hell had that guy?" My son's reply, "Mathis".

I think we may miss Mathis more than people like to believe. His ceiling was much higher than Caleb's, or even JY for that matter. In the beginning of last season he was one of our better players, but once his minutes were cut in favor of Caleb and JY his game really tailed off on both ends.

Too much inconsistency and out of control drives to the rim against the trees. It was deflating to the fans and had to weigh heavy on the team as well.

 

[kcg88]

Here's the on-the-floor defensive stats for everyone on our team in games against top-150 teams with garbage time filtered out:

Caleb McConnell: 0.898 points per possession allowed
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.988
Myles Johnson: 0.993
Paul Mulcahy: 1.010
Geo Baker: 1.027
Ron Harper: 1.040
Jacob Young: 1.040
Montez Mathis: 1.074

This doesn't mean Omoruyi is a better defender than Cliff, because it doesn't control for quality of opposition on the floor. So Myles was going against better players than Cliff. So don't draw grand conclusions from this.

Buuuuuuut our defense allowed by far the points per possession when Mathis was on the floor.

 

[RW90]

Too much inconsistency and out of control drives to the rim against the trees. It was deflating to the fans and had to weigh heavy on the team as well.

No question Mathis didn't play within the team offense in the second half the season. Of course it's all speculation, but it certainly seemed he was doing everything in his power to get his points in within his limited playing time. People forget how JY exhibited the exact same tendencies when he first arrived On the Banks and everyone here wanted to run him out of town on the next train.

 

[kcg88]

Here's the on-the-floor defensive stats for everyone on our team in games against top-150 teams with garbage time filtered out:

Caleb McConnell: 0.898 points per possession allowed
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.988
Myles Johnson: 0.993
Paul Mulcahy: 1.010
Geo Baker: 1.027
Ron Harper: 1.040
Jacob Young: 1.040
Montez Mathis: 1.074

This doesn't mean Omoruyi is a better defender than Cliff, because it doesn't control for quality of opposition on the floor. So Myles was going against better players than Cliff. So don't draw grand conclusions from this.

Buuuuuuut our defense allowed by far the points per possession when Mathis was on the floor.

If anyone is curious, here are the offensive numbers (same parameters):

Myles Johnson: 1.060 points per possession scored
Jacob Young: 1.022
Geo Baker: 1.02
Ron Harper: 1.017
Paul Mulcahy: 1.014
Montez Mathis: 0.958
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.942
Caleb McConnell: 0.940

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Here's the on-the-floor defensive stats for everyone on our team in games against top-150 teams with garbage time filtered out:

Caleb McConnell: 0.898 points per possession allowed
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.988
Myles Johnson: 0.993
Paul Mulcahy: 1.010
Geo Baker: 1.027
Ron Harper: 1.040
Jacob Young: 1.040
Montez Mathis: 1.074

This doesn't mean Omoruyi is a better defender than Cliff, because it doesn't control for quality of opposition on the floor. So Myles was going against better players than Cliff. So don't draw grand conclusions from this.

Buuuuuuut our defense allowed by far the points per possession when Mathis was on the floor.

So this is points per possession when on the floor? Almost like a +/- on the defensive end.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

If anyone is curious, here are the offensive numbers (same parameters):

Myles Johnson: 1.060 points per possession scored
Jacob Young: 1.022
Geo Baker: 1.02
Ron Harper: 1.017
Paul Mulcahy: 1.014
Montez Mathis: 0.958
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.942
Caleb McConnell: 0.940

Just curious - did Hofstra make the cut for top 150?

 

[Gudenham]

Swing and a miss.

Bookmark this comment and come back to me in a year. If Jones averages 10 points a night next season, I'll owe you 10 beers at a 2022-23 home game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If anyone is curious, here are the offensive numbers (same parameters):

Myles Johnson: 1.060 points per possession scored
Jacob Young: 1.022
Geo Baker: 1.02
Ron Harper: 1.017
Paul Mulcahy: 1.014
Montez Mathis: 0.958
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.942
Caleb McConnell: 0.940

Can we please not use BPM. Especially on defense. Defensive BPM main variables are steals, defensive rebounds and blocks.

 

[Eagleton96]

If anyone is curious, here are the offensive numbers (same parameters):

Myles Johnson: 1.060 points per possession scored
Jacob Young: 1.022
Geo Baker: 1.02
Ron Harper: 1.017
Paul Mulcahy: 1.014
Montez Mathis: 0.958
Cliff Omoruyi: 0.942
Caleb McConnell: 0.940

You have to take into account that Caleb was on the floor after RU and RHJ started slumping. To see Caleb's numbers you'd have to filter for just the games he played. And probably even discount the first 2.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You have to take into account that Caleb was on the floor after RU and RHJ started slumping. To see Caleb's numbers you'd have to filter for just the games he played. And probably even discount the first 2.

All those numbers reflect is players blocks,steals and defensive rebounds. Don't read too much in to it.

 

[RUChoppin]

All those numbers reflect is players blocks,steals and defensive rebounds. Don't read too much in to it.

It's not "all" the DRtg reflects, but those have an outsized impact on the numbers because they erase possessions from the opponent.

Though if a player is very good at blocks, steals and defensive rebounds, that is part of being a good defender too.

 

[Eagleton96]

It's not "all" the DRtg reflects, but those have an outsized impact on the numbers because they erase possessions from the opponent.

Though if a player is very good at blocks, steals and defensive rebounds, that is part of being a good defender too.

Right. It's not useless. But it doesn't show things like denying the ball or heading off drives on man D. Forcing bad shots. So it's not the whole story.

 

[RUChoppin]

Right. It's not useless. But it doesn't show things like denying the ball or heading off drives on man D. Forcing bad shots. So it's not the whole story.

Well, it does, but it's all indirect. Heading off drives, forcing the ball into the hands of less efficient scorers, forcing bad shots, etc.... all rolls up to "number of points allowed per 100 possessions". A steal is going to carry more weight here, because it brings the chance of points being scored to zero, whereas forcing a bad shot just reduces the chance of points being scored.

It also doesn't factor in who else is on the floor with you at the time - so, if you're more often on the floor with Reiber/Doucoure/Omoruyi, you're have a different DRtg than if you're on the floor with Johnson blocking shots. Or, if you're on the floor with Baker/Young, you're going to benefit from their steals.

You can account for this by looking at lineups, to some extent (small sample size of minutes), but that also backs up that lineups with Mathis allowed more points than those that subbed in McConnell or Mulcahy

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's not "all" the DRtg reflects, but those have an outsized impact on the numbers because they erase possessions from the opponent.

Though if a player is very good at blocks, steals and defensive rebounds, that is part of being a good defender too.

I’ll bet there is ZERO correlation between a players steal rate and their defense. I won’t go as far as saying the correlation is negative.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

- Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.

www.barttorvik.com

Try mapping defensive efficiency to 3 the 3 variables. defensive rebounding and block % are very correlated to defensive efficiency. Steals only VERY slightly.

All steals and all blocks are NOT equal. A guy getting most of their steals and blocks by getting them from behind a defender is a sign of a poor defender that is constantly in a better position to get a steal or block. Compare that to Jacob who got most of his steals facing his defender or shooting the gap as a help defender.