BB Recruiting Aundre Hyatt transfers to Rutgers

[RUChoppin]

I’ll bet there is ZERO correlation between a players steal rate and their defense. I won’t go as far as saying the correlation is negative.

I don't think it's zero - but there's different kinds of steals. When Johnson gets a steal on an entry pass, that's good defense. When Young is guarding a guy 1x1 and pokes the ball away with active hands and recovers it, that's good defense.

Jumping a pass, on the other hand, isn't the same thing - it's taking you out of position on a gamble, and if you don't get the steal you're giving the other team a 5 on 4 advantage until you can recover.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don't think it's zero - but there's different kinds of steals. When Johnson gets a steal on an entry pass, that's good defense. When Young is guarding a guy 1x1 and pokes the ball away with active hands and recovers it, that's good defense.

Jumping a pass, on the other hand, isn't the same thing - it's taking you out of position on a gamble, and if you don't get the steal you're giving the other team a 5 on 4 advantage until you can recover.

Well I’ll take that season saving pass JY intercepted at Minnesota defensive correlation not withstanding!

Needless to say - I called it “team” defense because individual player stats can be subjective as demonstrated by the discussion. The point is that those who believe that getting Caleb (and Geo) back caused others to suddenly miss shots will I guess continue to believe that we would’ve remained an the elite Kempom top 15 offensive team all season without them. I see it differently and apparently Pike agrees.

 

[kcg88]

All those numbers reflect is players blocks,steals and defensive rebounds. Don't read too much in to it.

Are you really gonna make me do a video review of Mathis 1 on 1 defense?

 

[dpwhite]

Are you really gonna make me do a video review of Mathis 1 on 1 defense?

It’s time.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Are you really gonna make me do a video review of Mathis 1 on 1 defense?

don't do Baker, especially transition defense

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It’s time.

Mathis certainly lost his luster on the defensive end. No doubt.

 

[fluoxetine]

Are you really gonna make me do a video review of Mathis 1 on 1 defense?

Do it

 

[RUChoppin]

It's also tough to play defense when you're on your back under the basket after driving into multiple defenders, while the other team goes 5 on 4 in transition.

 

[kcg88]

Do it

I think if I do any it's gonna be the freshmen. But we'll see.

Last word on Mathis is that I always saw him playing hard even when others weren't. Doesn't mean he was always more effective but I appreciated it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Do it

Yes Do it. I dare you

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's also tough to play defense when you're on your back under the basket after driving into multiple defenders, while the other team goes 5 on 4 in transition.

Every possession!

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I think if I do any it's gonna be the freshmen. But we'll see.

Last word on Mathis is that I always saw him playing hard even when others weren't. Doesn't mean he was always more effective but I appreciated it.

This 100%.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I think if I do any it's gonna be the freshmen. But we'll see.

Last word on Mathis is that I always saw him playing hard even when others weren't. Doesn't mean he was always more effective but I appreciated it.

Agreed - he always plays hard.

 

[fluoxetine]

I think if I do any it's gonna be the freshmen. But we'll see.

Last word on Mathis is that I always saw him playing hard even when others weren't. Doesn't mean he was always more effective but I appreciated it.

Yeah on second thought do players we still have.

Seriously though your video reviews are fascinating.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agreed - he always plays hard.

A very high percentage. The reality is no one plays 100% every possession.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

I am no expert on breaking down defensive play, but it felt yo me like Mathis played much better defense in the previous season. I remember thinking then how he really would hound his man into bad games, and kept waiting to see that this year but never really noticed it. Other than the inevitable threads about his play at SJU next year, I won't notice how he does this year because I don't plan to watch any SJU basketball.

 

[Scarlet83]

Bookmark this comment and come back to me in a year. If Jones averages 10 points a night next season, I'll owe you 10 beers at a 2022-23 home game.

I didn’t predict that Jones will average 10 points a game. Someone else did. He may or may not, but I believe Jones will have a significant impact on our offense.

I just disagree with your take that since Jones didn’t really play this spring, that he is not good enough to average 10 points per game this year. You are underestimating the importance of a full offseason of college level coaching for incoming freshman. All of the prep, practice, strength and conditioning, team chemistry, knowing the o and d plays cold, learning how to play reliable team defense etc etc etc. These are the reasons he didn’t play, and Pike mentioned some of these things publicly, as to why Jones didn’t play.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Until someone develops a system to track how many points, fouls shots, open looks, etc a defensive player gives up against all the other players he guards during the course of a game then it's mostly perception. Especially, when everything is about team defense.

It is easy to pinpoint the really good defenders and the really bad defenders...for that large group of players in the middle, not so much.

The only thing that is obvious is that Poor defenders get the hook real quick because the coaches know what he is supposed to do, where he is supposed to be...if they don't do, they get pulled.

 

[RUChoppin]

Until someone develops a system to track how many points, fouls shots, open looks, etc a defensive player gives up against all the other players he guards during the course of a game then it's mostly perception. Especially, when everything is about team defense.

It is easy to pinpoint the really good defenders and the really bad defenders...for that large group of players in the middle, not so much.

The only thing that is obvious is that Poor defenders get the hook real quick because the coaches know what he is supposed to do, where he is supposed to be...if they don't do, they get pulled.

Agree to a point, and we did see Mathis' minutes go down as Pike used him less in the latter part of the year.

But as you say, it's team defense - so looking at how different lineups perform overall gives you a sense of which combinations of players works better than others offensively and defensively. If you take a lineup with 4 players, and then swap other players into the 5th spot, you can at least gain a little insight into their impact on the overall group.

Because being a "good defender" is a lot more than just 1x1 on-ball defense.. it's switching appropriately, overall positioning on the floor when your man doesn't have the ball, it's staying with your man on cuts, fighting over screens, closing out on shooters, forcing the ball away from or to certain players, defending without fouling, getting defensive boards, getting back in transition, etc.

That really can't be measured easily in a single metric - which is why you try to look at overall points allowed while a player is on the floor, or even more specifically when they are on the floor with certain lineups vs. other players on the floor with the same lineup. It's all imperfect to do it in aggregate - but what you see with your eyes is frequently backed up by what you see in a comprehensive box score.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Agree to a point, and we did see Mathis' minutes go down as Pike used him less in the latter part of the year.

But as you say, it's team defense - so looking at how different lineups perform overall gives you a sense of which combinations of players works better than others offensively and defensively. If you take a lineup with 4 players, and then swap other players into the 5th spot, you can at least gain a little insight into their impact on the overall group.

Because being a "good defender" is a lot more than just 1x1 on-ball defense.. it's switching appropriately, overall positioning on the floor when your man doesn't have the ball, it's staying with your man on cuts, fighting over screens, closing out on shooters, forcing the ball away from or to certain players, defending without fouling, getting defensive boards, getting back in transition, etc.

That really can't be measured easily in a single metric - which is why you try to look at overall points allowed while a player is on the floor, or even more specifically when they are on the floor with certain lineups vs. other players on the floor with the same lineup. It's all imperfect to do it in aggregate - but what you see with your eyes is frequently backed up by what you see in a comprehensive box score.

Great response.

My view with team defense is that it mainly comes down to one guy(maybe 2) being a step slow, one guy being out of position by failing to rotate, one guy getting beat back door when he loses eye contact....AND, it is rarely the same guy of each defensive position. I am not a fan of points per possession given up with a certain lineup as the key metric.

The exception is when a guy just gets flat beat in a one on one situation.

 

[RUChoppin]

Great response.

My view with team defense is that it mainly comes down to one guy(maybe 2) being a step slow, one guy being out of position by failing to rotate, one guy getting beat back door when he loses eye contact....AND, it is rarely the same guy of each defensive position. I am not a fan of points per possession given up with a certain lineup as the key metric.

The exception is when a guy just gets flat beat in a one on one situation.

A lot is chemistry and communication. Anticipation of how your teammates are moving and responding behind you, and trusting them to make the right play. Schiano would preach doing your "1/11th" on defense, no more and no less.

As far as points per possession, in the simplest sense defense is limiting your opponent's points - so all the contributing factors really boil down to how hard it is for your opponent to score any given time down the court.