Carino: Updates on the Freshman

[gregkoko]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...mathis-ron-harper-caleb-mcconnell/1661926002/

Previewing Mathis, Harper, and McConnell with quotes from Pikiell, the players, and their teammates.

Main Takeaways: Mathis is competing for a starting spot in the backcourt, McConnell will get 5-10 minutes spelling Geo, and Harper could be an X-Factor but is a work in progress.

 

[zebnatto]

Can not wait for the season!

 

[Mr Magoo]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...mathis-ron-harper-caleb-mcconnell/1661926002/

Previewing Mathis, Harper, and McConnell with quotes from Pikiell, the players, and their teammates.

Main Takeaways: Mathis is competing for a starting spot in the backcourt, McConnell will get 5-10 minutes spelling Geo, and Harper could be an X-Factor but is a work in progress.

I was hoping Mathis would start. That would be a very good sign.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It is going to be a real long season if those 3 don't ultimately give more than the article says or implies.

 

[kcg88]

It is going to be a real long season if those 3 don't ultimately give more than the article says or implies.

Pikiell also said (don't think this made the article) that he feels like Myles Johnson can legitimately score in the Big Ten. I was more worried about Shaq Carter after that interview, he seemed to hint the guys who had been here had been getting the better of him.

 

[lilphilw]

It is going to be a real long season if those 3 don't ultimately give more than the article says or implies.

The only one I'm worried about from those quotes is McConnell. Because we have no depth at PG.

I'm not worried about Mathis at all according to those quotes. Sounds like he can start or be one of the first ones off the bench. Not sure what you're expecting from him?

Also Harper is behind Thiam at SF and might have to fight Gene or Kiss for some SF minutes. Him being #10 or 11 off the bench doesn't worry me. We'll see how he progresses and I'm sure the minutes will depend on if he can keep up

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pikiell also said (don't think this made the article) that he feels like Myles Johnson can legitimately score in the Big Ten. I was more worried about Shaq Carter after that interview, he seemed to hint the guys who had been here had been getting the better of him.

That's a problem too. I keep hoping Carter is something that we need. I conveniently forget that he didn't start for his junior college team and barely played in the playoffs. Carter can't be another Souf. If that is the case you really need to worry about talent evaluation/recruiting

 

[kcg88]

That's a problem too. I keep hoping Carter is something that we need. I conveniently forget that he didn't start for his junior college team and barely played in the playoffs. Carter can't be another Souf. If that is the case you really need to worry about talent evaluation/recruiting

I'd settle for a Deshawn Freeman who didn't shoot. I'm less worried about Carter because JUCO rankings had him listed highly and other schools were interested. Souf was a complete unknown (and for a reason) at JUCO.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I'd settle for a Deshawn Freeman who didn't shoot. I'm less worried about Carter because JUCO rankings had him listed highly and other schools were interested. Souf was a complete unknown (and for a reason) at JUCO.

I agree with initial thought.

Final 8 game Shaq played 1 minute
Final 4 game they lost he played 12 minutes

I'd think that trumps his rankings.

Shouldn't a guy who is going to play in the B1G put up gaudy numbers and not be a practical DNP?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I agree with initial thought.

Final 8 game Shaq played 1 minute
Final 4 game they lost he played 12 minutes

I'd think that trumps his rankings.

Shouldn't a guy who is going to play in the B1G put up gaudy numbers and not be a practical DNP?

Maybe his lack of minutes was a match-up thing? No idea. Just guessing. From the limited tape I've seen, he seems like he belongs.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

There's a theory that some coaches follow when it comes to freshman and that's start with lowered expectations and to make the freshman earn it....or to make it painfully obvious that they belong on the court.

I don't have any doubts about Mathis or McConnell frankly...as in none, but i would not worry about who starts, there's plenty of minutes to earn.....same could be said about what I was told last year about Baker and that we would not miss Nigel Johnson much....not because Nigel couldn't play or be a good 4th guard, but because Geo was just better for the long term growth of the program. We are rewinding the tape again and will allow the growing pains for Mathis and McConnell.

Same concept applies here...Kiss has been here since May 2017...that is almost a year and a half in our system and lifting running, working and is a 3rd year college player.

I think it would he somewhat obvious to fans to stake their claim to the highest ranked recruit on paper. But to build a program, it has to step beyond the one player being viewed as the savior.

The program ( to me) has a longer term approach while improving during that process. That means making Mathis prove with his play, practice that it's obvious that he's one of the 5 best players and if that's the case, he will play plenty of minutes.

I feel it's better for Mathis and McConnell to earn their minutes vs the last decade or so when depth or talent off the bench wasn't comparable to the starters.

And we should save this same message for next fall when fans who want immediate stardom and don't get it right away, start to focus on Mulcahy and Jacob Young as next year's saviors, if Mathis and McConnell dont immediately flash as potential or immediate starters averaging 10 and 5.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I agree with initial thought.

Final 8 game Shaq played 1 minute
Final 4 game they lost he played 12 minutes

I'd think that trumps his rankings.

Shouldn't a guy who is going to play in the B1G put up gaudy numbers and not be a practical DNP?

I would watch the Pike video from yesterday, about 9 minutes of commentary about the newcomers. His 1st goal was to ensure Shaq rebounds well and defends when switched onto wings and perhaps guards.

There are only so many shot attempts per game on the floor and i believe the player Shaq split time with another D1 prospect. Programs with little depth in JUCO have more to do with numbers than dominance. I see Carter playing 20+ minutes a night.

 

[dkostus]

There's a theory that some coaches follow when it comes to freshman and that's start with lowered expectations and to make the freshman earn it....or to make it painfully obvious that they belong on the court.

I don't have any doubts about Mathis or McConnell frankly...as in none, but i would not worry about who starts, there's plenty of minutes to earn.....same could be said about what I was told last year about Baker and that we would not miss Nigel Johnson much....not because Nigel couldn't play or be a good 4th guard, but because Geo was just better for the long term growth of the program. We are rewinding the tape again and will allow the growing pains for Mathis and McConnell.

Same concept applies here...Kiss has been here since May 2017...that is almost a year and a half in our system and lifting running, working and is a 3rd year college player.

I think it would he somewhat obvious to fans to stake their claim to the highest ranked recruit on paper. But to build a program, it has to step beyond the one player being viewed as the savior.

The program ( to me) has a longer term approach while improving during that process. That means making Mathis prove with his play, practice that it's obvious that he's one of the 5 best players and if that's the case, he will play plenty of minutes.

I feel it's better for Mathis and McConnell to earn their minutes vs the last decade or so when depth or talent off the bench wasn't comparable to the starters.

And we should save this same message for next fall when fans who want immediate stardom and don't get it right away, start to focus on Mulcahy and Jacob Young as next year's saviors, if Mathis and McConnell dont immediately flash as potential or immediate starters averaging 10 and 5.

Was surprised you went through this whole post without mentioning Harper.

 

[Scangg]

That's a problem too. I keep hoping Carter is something that we need. I conveniently forget that he didn't start for his junior college team and barely played in the playoffs. Carter can't be another Souf. If that is the case you really need to worry about talent evaluation/recruiting

Carter was a big juco talent with offers from good programs.

Geo - stud out of nowhere
EO - Stud even further out of nowhere
Mathis - 4 star stud
Harper - 2 star when we landed him then 4 star
Kiss - highly sought transfer Pike said was the best shooter and best athlete on the team
Young - 4 star transfer
Myles - underrecruited big "best on the team" by end of season last year per Pike
McConnell - under recruited big PG with length handle and range

All this and you're somehow stuck on Souf not working out? I'm worried about your player evaluations/recruiting thoughts not Pike's.

 

[dkostus]

Carter was a big juco talent with offers from good programs.

Geo - stud out of nowhere
EO - Stud even further out of nowhere
Mathis - 4 star stud
Harper - 2 star when we landed him then 4 star
Kiss - highly sought transfer Pike said was the best shooter and best athlete on the team
Young - 4 star transfer
Myles - underrecruited big "best on the team" by end of season last year per Pike
McConnell - under recruited big PG with length handle and range

All this and you're somehow stuck on Souf not working out? I'm worried about your player evaluations/recruiting thoughts not Pike's.

Greene is just holding them to a tougher eval because he wants the team to be good. It is true that the jump to just competitive may be easier than the jump from competitive to mid-level B1G team

 

[Scangg]

Greene is just holding them to a tougher eval because he wants the team to be good. It is true that the jump to just competitive may be easier than the jump from competitive to mid-level B1G team

I agree with that but Pike's recruiting and player evaluations have been off the charts especially considering the program was coming off scandals and a terrible team. He's landing multiple 4 stars already which shows he's a great recruiter selling his vision. If we can show progress on the court it's only going to get better. The second piece of player evaluations I think he also is crushing. Geo in the 400s and I don't know if EO was even rated .Myles looks to be another steal and McConnell is this year's gem. He is absolutely crushing it so far. 2 out of 3 4 star last year. One 4 star next year with another spot open. He is far exceeding expectations at this point. Landing 5 stars off the bat wasn't in the realm of realistic possibilities

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I would watch the Pike video from yesterday, about 9 minutes of commentary about the newcomers. His 1st goal was to ensure Shaq rebounds well and defends when switched onto wings and perhaps guards.

There are only so many shot attempts per game on the floor and i believe the player Shaq split time with another D1 prospect. Programs with little depth in JUCO have more to do with numbers than dominance. I see Carter playing 20+ minutes a night.

I keep holding my hat on you saying the JUCO game is a different game and what Shaq brings to the table doesn't translate at the JUCo level. I want to believe it.

I have made my thoughts known on having offensively skilled 1 thru 4 on court. A guy being a plus defensive rebounder and an adequate defender is what this team needs. With that in mind the Carter I am hopeful for gets those 20+ minutes.

We desperately need for you to be right here.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Carter was a big juco talent with offers from good programs.

Geo - stud out of nowhere
EO - Stud even further out of nowhere
Mathis - 4 star stud
Harper - 2 star when we landed him then 4 star
Kiss - highly sought transfer Pike said was the best shooter and best athlete on the team
Young - 4 star transfer
Myles - underrecruited big "best on the team" by end of season last year per Pike
McConnell - under recruited big PG with length handle and range

All this and you're somehow stuck on Souf not working out? I'm worried about your player evaluations/recruiting thoughts not Pike's.

The problem is with the exception of Geo all of this is on paper. Geo was the farthest thing from a stud last year.

 

[Scangg]

The problem is with the exception of Geo all of this is on paper. Geo was the farthest thing from a stud last year.

Geo was great and logically will be better after a year of strength and conditioning and experience. EO is not on paper. The results have been phenomenal and real on the court not paper. Pike has said yet again that he is the most improved player as well

 

[RUChoppin]

I agree with initial thought.

Final 8 game Shaq played 1 minute
Final 4 game they lost he played 12 minutes

I'd think that trumps his rankings.

Shouldn't a guy who is going to play in the B1G put up gaudy numbers and not be a practical DNP?

He didn't play the first game of the tournament at all, either. Missed a game, then 1 min, then 12 min, then 26 min... might have been an illness/injury concern that he was working back from?

 

[higgins3]

The problem is with the exception of Geo all of this is on paper. Geo was the farthest thing from a stud last year.

When big moment were on, he rose to the occasion.

Against a top ranked Purdue team, he was the best player on the court for 30 minutes.

 

[higgins3]

It is going to be a real long season if those 3 don't ultimately give more than the article says or implies.

Peter Kiss is on his third year of practicing with D1 players. Baker is a second year player. Carter is a JUCO from a good program. Doorson has been around injured, but knows what should be expected of him. Omoyuri is a third year player. Thiam a third year player. Johnson has played with the team for a year.

The freshman do not have to carry as much weight as you make it seem. This is looking at the season as probably a 12-13 win.

 

[knights1212]

GRF, I have seen 2 practices and Carter is NOT another Souf. He will play and he will rebound. Our depth is so much better than last year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

He didn't play the first game of the tournament at all, either. Missed a game, then 1 min, then 12 min, then 26 min... might have been an illness/injury concern that he was working back from?

The 26 minutes was the 3rd place consolation game

 

[Mr Magoo]

That's a problem too. I keep hoping Carter is something that we need. I conveniently forget that he didn't start for his junior college team and barely played in the playoffs. Carter can't be another Souf. If that is the case you really need to worry about talent evaluation/recruiting

What’s strange about this kid is that he was more highly regarded two years ago than he seems to be now. I remember reading an article suggesting he may be the best JUCO big man in the country two years ago...then he seemed to go backwards last year and didn’t make first team all south JUCO.

 

[Mr Magoo]

The problem is with the exception of Geo all of this is on paper. Geo was the farthest thing from a stud last year.

Lots of potential here. He and Sanders were the only two players who could create their own shot. It’s hard to be successful without multiple players who can. Hopefully, Geo and Mathis will be this year’s pair.

 

[RUChoppin]

The 26 minutes was the 3rd place consolation game

I know - was talking about the trend. He was out a game, then came back for 1, then 12, then 26.... over a span of 5 days. After averaging 21.2 mpg the previous 31 games (5th most on the team, with 9.0 pts/7.3 rbs through the regular season). Possibly an illness that forced him to miss time (like Geo last year, but without any off days between games to recover?).

Just speculation. It's strange that he'd see just 1 min over the first two games of the tournament given his performance on the team to that point.

 

[higgins3]

I know - was talking about the trend. He was out a game, then came back for 1, then 12, then 26.... over a span of 5 days. After averaging 21.2 mpg the previous 31 games (5th most on the team, with 9.0 pts/7.3 rbs through the regular season). Possibly an illness that forced him to miss time (like Geo last year, but without any off days between games to recover?).

Just speculation. It's strange that he'd see just 1 min over the first two games of the tournament given his performance on the team to that point.

Also speculation. When you are a top ranked JUCO team, you may play the kids more who have not received D1 scholarships yet. Many of his teammates received scholarships last minute last year. Hence, they played them over Shaq so they could still get their publicity, and shots at being seen at the next level by a coach.

The goal of a JUCO program is to get kids scholarships.

 

[Scangg]

Both of the above points make more sense than out of nowhere someone going from 20+ mpg to not playing bc they weren't good enough all of a sudden

 

[Scarlet Shack]

This team is much better if carter can be a low post five getting 8 and 6 in 25 minutes per game at the five spot

I think he is the only guy on our roster who, in 25 mpg, could score 8 per game at the five

 

[Scangg]

This team is much better if carter can be a low post five getting 8 and 6 in 25 minutes per game at the five spot

I think he is the only guy on our roster who, in 25 mpg, could score 8 per game at the five

I'd throw Myles in there too

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Also speculation. When you are a top ranked JUCO team, you may play the kids more who have not received D1 scholarships yet. Many of his teammates received scholarships last minute last year. Hence, they played them over Shaq so they could still get their publicity, and shots at being seen at the next level by a coach.

The goal of a JUCO program is to get kids scholarships.

Not the playoffs

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

This team is much better if carter can be a low post five getting 8 and 6 in 25 minutes per game at the five spot

I think he is the only guy on our roster who, in 25 mpg, could score 8 per game at the five

I’d rather have 4 pt 9 reb

 

[seels2662]

Carter will do plenty fine. He does one thing well which is put in chip ins. That is plenty fine in a Pikiell system. I'm thinking 6 points and 6 rebounds a game.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Was surprised you went through this whole post without mentioning Harper.

I think Harper is further away from being a starter because of youth and conditioning. I truly think he will be good player at this level. It's too difficult of a jump to the speed of the game unless you are in elite physical shape.

Harper will find minutes but i think his best years are 2 through 4.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Carter will do plenty fine. He does one thing well which is put in chip ins. That is plenty fine in a Pikiell system. I'm thinking 6 points and 6 rebounds a game.

dont watch one on one drill video.

 

[RUChow]

https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...mathis-ron-harper-caleb-mcconnell/1661926002/

Previewing Mathis, Harper, and McConnell with quotes from Pikiell, the players, and their teammates.

Main Takeaways: Mathis is competing for a starting spot in the backcourt, McConnell will get 5-10 minutes spelling Geo, and Harper could be an X-Factor but is a work in progress.

Very doubtful Mathis starts. Harper still has a ways to go at this point.

 

[Goku]

Dahntay Jones didn’t even start to n his freshman year but had the role of spark plug off the bench with low pressure. Let’s do the same for these freshman. They should not be asked to carry the load but to find their games and develop within the team. We don’t need to worry. Our job is to go to the games and root for them. Let the coaches worry about them. That’s what they are paid for

 

[4theknights]

The thing that is concerning is we have a 6'9 four **** big man who is going into his sophomore and there is so little discussion about him. I'm hoping this changes as the season unfolds. We need Mamadou Doucoure to be a force if we expect to make some big strides this year and next.

 

[higgins3]

Not the playoffs

Regardless, Carter is far from a Souf type of player. He will back up Omoyuri and probably score 5 points and grab 5 rebounds a game.

Carter has some accolades. He will help here. If you mention the staffs recruiting/evaluation to be concerning if x doesn't pan out, you also have to mention the players they scored on and did very well in obtaining.