Actually I prefer the more detailed reporting of the data rather then an overall look at the country. It just tells you so much more.
COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...
- Thread starter Richie O
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Not arguing that, it's the politically slanted portrayal of the data that is a disservice.
He talks about a the $1billion and gives you production at 100 million. What don't you understand? These aren't two different conversations and he already has a specific production schedule before the question was asked. They have already started making it before approval and he has the number of 100 million so yes that is part of the same equation.
What is with you? Why is it so important to try and show that they won't make that much money?
Keep in mind that transmission of the virus is also devastating to the economy—there’s not an either or choice here. We’re seeing this nationally: dinner reservations, travel, and consumer sentiment have all declined in recent weeks after growing in late-spring and early- summer...this is probably caused by acute declines in areas with lots of cases.
I don’t want to play woulda / shoulda / coulda here, but activity and action are not one and the same. We’ll be asked over time to ponder our leaders’ effectiveness through this crisis, and as a society we’ll probably come to see our Jan / Feb / March activity as falling short of sufficient action to ready the country for what was to come.
More importantly, once the virus was here and ravaging some communities, we had massive financial stimulus to bridge businesses and workers through the devastation. It is a travesty to think that recipients or indirect beneficiaries of this stimulus were protesting shut downs, pushing governors to reopen, and inspiring the President to undermine shutdown orders (each “Liberate” tweet weakening the effectiveness of the stimulus package meant to see us through the shutdowns until transmission was low; each liberate tweet turning federal stimulus $ into waste).
We won’t shut down the state of Florida or the state of Texas at this point. Our best bet now is enforcing masks to inspire confidence in the safety of social contact. I’m not in favor of criminalizing the issue, unless you are also found to have benefited (directly or indirectly) from the CARES act provisions. As I’ve posted here before, to rebel against efforts to quell the virus (which has the effect of prolonging the economic pain) while also receiving government aid is an unthinkable betrayal to the American taxpayer.
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Seems like what you are proposing is 6 to 1/2 dozen, you either pay at risk people to stay home, or you pay people stimulus checks/un-employment. I don't know how exactly the numbers would work out, but pay 40% of the pop to stay home isn't chump change, but of course neither is paying stimulus and un-employment. No easy answer here, which is why I think it makes good discussion.
National/Federal mask mandate
(Signifacntly) increasing the national stockpile of PPE
Aggressive federal testing strategy and strong federal government support to increase lab capacity (NIH recently reached out to the State of Maryland for tests...how is that even possible?)
Contact Tracing plan
Scientists speaking at the Press briefings addressing the coronavirus
You know, a whole bunch of stuff other countries are doing that have (significantly) slowed the spread of the virus in places other than the US. And steps we inexplicably refuse to take.
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BTW, shelton lanes is likely to collapse regardless of restrictions. If the clientele at shelton lanes look anything like it did 30 years ago when I used to go there, then your proposal for protecting at risk people(60+ and/or underlying conditions) is likely to keep 75%+ of them at home.regardless of restrictions on the rest of us.
No perhaps if the initial directives by Fauci-Debbie and the CDC had not been so wrong then instead of what we saw may have been somewhat different. But it was a perfect storm in a overly dense populated corridor known as the northeast of the USA . No matter who was in charge would have faced exactly the same issues. The previous acts were vastly unconcerned and prepared. Forget those states ... they really sucked the B1G one.
New, well done paper out from some epidemiologists investigating a high school COVID outbreak in Israel in May after schools reopened. After discovering two positive, mildly symptomatic cases in students in the school, who attended school for several days before notifying anyone of their symptoms, the school was shut down and all ~1160 students and ~150 staff were tested, revealing 153 students (13.2%) and 25 staff members (16.6%) were infected. Unfortunately, the study doesn't say much about the outcome of these infections, other than to say that most of the students were aysmptomatic or mildly symptomatic, with no mention of the outcomes for the staff (obviously a bigger concern, with age). However, the study's focus was epidemiology and we know the impacts on staff were likely substantial.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352
With regard to the epidemiology and root causes for the transmission, the paper does a nice job. While the reopening schools had requirements for daily health reports, hygiene, facemasks, social distancing and minimal interaction between classes, the paper noted that there was a major heatwave and students were exempted from wearing masks for 3 days. Having symptomatic students in school at this time, combined with not wearing masks for 3 days certainly seems likely to be largely responsible for the extent of the outbreak. The paper didn't do a formal analysis of transmission chains to "prove" the staff were infected by the children, but this seems quite likely.
See the excerpt below for more; the school was also noted to be on the crowded side vs. OECD averages, which likely didn't help. To their credit, though, they quickly shut the school down and tested everyone very quickly. Also, it's worth noting that there were 87 additional confirmed COVID-19 cases among close contacts of the first school’s cases, including siblings at other schools, friends and participants in sports and dance classes, students’ parents and family members of school staff. This is the worst nightmare outcome for reopening schools without proper precautions and if infections are prevalent.
The high school outbreak in Jerusalem displayed mass COVID-19 transmission upon school reopening. The circumstances promoting infection spread involved return of teenage students to their regular classes after a 2-month closure (on 18 May) and an extreme heatwave (on 19 May) with temperatures rising to 40 °C and above [6] that involved exemption from facemasks (for 3 days) and continuous air-conditioning. Classes in the first affected school had more than 30 students. Israel’s secondary school classes are crowded (average: 29 students in public schools) compared with the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) average (23 students) [7]. COVID-19 in a school necessitates a prompt response. Classmates and teachers should be considered close contacts (particularly in crowded classes), as should students in groups mixing several classes, extra-curricular activities and school buses. Temporary school closure is prudent (especially in large regional schools) pending investigation results.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352
With regard to the epidemiology and root causes for the transmission, the paper does a nice job. While the reopening schools had requirements for daily health reports, hygiene, facemasks, social distancing and minimal interaction between classes, the paper noted that there was a major heatwave and students were exempted from wearing masks for 3 days. Having symptomatic students in school at this time, combined with not wearing masks for 3 days certainly seems likely to be largely responsible for the extent of the outbreak. The paper didn't do a formal analysis of transmission chains to "prove" the staff were infected by the children, but this seems quite likely.
See the excerpt below for more; the school was also noted to be on the crowded side vs. OECD averages, which likely didn't help. To their credit, though, they quickly shut the school down and tested everyone very quickly. Also, it's worth noting that there were 87 additional confirmed COVID-19 cases among close contacts of the first school’s cases, including siblings at other schools, friends and participants in sports and dance classes, students’ parents and family members of school staff. This is the worst nightmare outcome for reopening schools without proper precautions and if infections are prevalent.
The high school outbreak in Jerusalem displayed mass COVID-19 transmission upon school reopening. The circumstances promoting infection spread involved return of teenage students to their regular classes after a 2-month closure (on 18 May) and an extreme heatwave (on 19 May) with temperatures rising to 40 °C and above [6] that involved exemption from facemasks (for 3 days) and continuous air-conditioning. Classes in the first affected school had more than 30 students. Israel’s secondary school classes are crowded (average: 29 students in public schools) compared with the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) average (23 students) [7]. COVID-19 in a school necessitates a prompt response. Classmates and teachers should be considered close contacts (particularly in crowded classes), as should students in groups mixing several classes, extra-curricular activities and school buses. Temporary school closure is prudent (especially in large regional schools) pending investigation results.
So why would that include the 100 million but not include the 1 billion doses through 2021"? There isn't much detail there, so I don't see it as clear either way.
And I'm not trying to prove they are not making money, but I will argue against a point which doesn't appear correct.
I also wonder in that post if $100 million profit(or more) is something we should be comfortable with?
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The business where I work would be hit pretty hard if we kept the vulnerable population at home.
Now we are currently thriving, so we'd probably be OK, but I think the idea of: "Keep the vulnerable home and the economy goes back to normal" is not realistic.
Expand upon this, please. Really dive in to what they're controlling ...besides contagious disease.
While you're at it, please rectify the grating contrast between "recommend" and "control."
This isn't really possible with this disease. The most vulnerable can't just "take responsibility for themselves."
A federal mandate for masks would be challenged constitutionally. A health issue mandate like this is clearly under the constitutional purview of the states, and obviously more readily implemented at that level. And I don't have a problem with state/local mandates, but iirc NYC tried it--maybe still has it--but the cops weren't allowed to enforce it. Anyway, face coverings are so basic, commonsense and of such minor effort/inconvenience in this crisis it is embarrassing as a country that some citizens wouldn't comply without a governmental order.
Isn't NY implementing contact tracing (another state health issue)? How is it working out? Is the Fed government not supporting state actions? Which states aren't?
As for PPE, where or what are the specific shortfalls?
The testing in the US is better than anywhere in the world right now. No?
Dr Birx , Redfield and even Fauci have all spoken at press conferences. Fauci is still all over the TV on his own so it's not like nobody hears from him even if he's not part of recent WH pressers.
Your list is fine but it's mostly already being done, other than a national mask mandate for the reasons already pointed out.
It seems fairly obvious the country could use to break the stigma of wearing a mask. So don't even see why they wouldn't "recommend" it for other events.
Some people:
Getting Covid-19 for the economy is noble (even though economy will suffer where Covid is present regardless); but no intention of getting vaccine (even though vaccine would actually have huge economic benefit)
Mask requirements are dangerous government abuse; unlawful detention in unmarked rental cars (with threat of getting shot for non-compliance, as recorded in at least one instance) not an abuse
Shelter in place is authoritarian overstep; happy to cash in on benefits of government stimulus program
The virus is just the sniffles for most people, deaths are made up, and all-cause mortality increased because people don’t want to call 911 for heart attacks (which are not caused by Covid, these people say); Fauci is responsible for not taking this seriously enough and letting this death machine spread across the country
Getting Covid-19 for the economy is noble (even though economy will suffer where Covid is present regardless); but no intention of getting vaccine (even though vaccine would actually have huge economic benefit)
Mask requirements are dangerous government abuse; unlawful detention in unmarked rental cars (with threat of getting shot for non-compliance, as recorded in at least one instance) not an abuse
Shelter in place is authoritarian overstep; happy to cash in on benefits of government stimulus program
The virus is just the sniffles for most people, deaths are made up, and all-cause mortality increased because people don’t want to call 911 for heart attacks (which are not caused by Covid, these people say); Fauci is responsible for not taking this seriously enough and letting this death machine spread across the country
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The main thing that I hope really changes in America after this pandemic is the notion that going to work while sick is somehow honorable and expected. Self-quarantining, even for a minor cold, should be common courtesy to your fellow citizens. We may need legislation to require employers to provide some paid sick time in all industries. It will especially hurt small businesses with limited numbers of employees, but it is necessary and proper. The lack of universal health coverage makes this trickier too as its difficult for a non-insured person to be able to afford to prove they were sick via a doctors visit.
Masks should then be part 2 of what we should do when we start to feel better but still may be contagious.
It's quite terrifying, actually.
I agree with you . But it’s going to be hard to change the culture in some workplaces . Many bosses only care about the work getting done and if a sick employee has to do it so be it .
Yeah everyone wearing masks to prevent regular flu..have a nice of life
There will always be a small % of people on any issue in this country that don't get it.
you would see a few people (mostly Asians) wearing masks in crowded places in NYC (subways, buses, busy streets). I can see a lot more people wearing masks on the future, especially in the fall and winter.
I think the idea is more, if you don't feel well, wear a mask. Not everyone wears a mask all the time.
More great stuff on masks. Read the whole thread - some solid, albeit anecdotal, evidence in there.
How can we even tell the answers to these questions without getting detailed statistics on who is hospitalized? It is puzzling that this information isn't being collected, and if it is, then it is perhaps even more disturbing that it isn't getting publicly released.
While your point may be correct, the data you are using to support it is useless without context. It would only be accurate if you say "positive tests" and not "infected." That's all it really is a measure of.
So you have nothing but miswritten stupidity with which to answer. Thanks for confirming.
Ironically, the existence of lobotomized beef like you is why gyms stayed shuttered for so long!
Bac still doesn't realize masks are not to protect those wearing them.
You have to strive hard to be that ignorant and inconsistent.
And you sound happy about that possibility. No offense ...I ‘m certain many on this board have obese or overweight children , parents , brothers , sisters or themselves.who fall into that category. Now I realize that may not be you so be thankful . We see many who are all for helping addicts , criminals and the underserved. Obesity falls under addiction so it is another serious social issue. For example when I was 55-60 I was 6’1” 190 lbs. and BMI was 18 . Some clown from an insurance co. told me , “ well statistically you should be between 169 - 189 ...you could be considered obese .” There’s the door have a nice life Ms. LPN...
I think he was saying people would claim to be obese in order to claim the disability money.
That's what I would do anyway.....
jk.
ask and ye shall receive:
About 41% of adults may be at higher risk for severe Covid-19 infection due to underlying conditions
From CNN’s Jen Christensen
In the United States, about 41% of adults had at least one underlying medical condition that may put them at a higher risk for severe Covid-19 outcomes, according to a new report published Thursday by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The research, published in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly report, looked at five conditions that tend to put people at greater risk for more severe disease from the coronavirus: chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic kidney disease and obesity. It did not include other conditions, such as sickle cell disease or organ transplants.
What the study found was that the numbers of adults with these conditions varied by county –– from almost 1 in 4 adults to as many as two-thirds of adults in a county.
In half of US counties, almost 1 in 2 adults were estimated to have an underlying condition.
There were higher proportions of people with these health conditions living in rural areas, and in Appalachia and in the Southeast.
The most common underlying condition was obesity, followed by diabetes, COPD, heart disease and chronic kidney disease.
What this means: The CDC authors said the data on these conditions is limited at the county level. They hope the report can help public health leaders use the information to help them make decisions about what areas might need more health resources that may be overlooked otherwise.
Rural areas, that already had been struggling with a lack of health care resources prior to the pandemic, for example, may need even more help. These areas may have smaller populations, but they have communities that have more people with underlying health conditions that may put them at greater risk of needing to be hospitalized for the disease.
Sorry if that is what he means ...So be it...Obesity has been the story most attributed to poor covid19 outcomes....It is an addiction to food and something that is not funny ... I remember some kids as a child who were overweight some very overweight...
The Administration have thrown HHS and CDC under the bus since late-Feb at least; though both agencies / departments are run by the White House’s nominations.
Oh i wouldn't be surprised either...people can be useful idiots
However will we see the same arguments in a flu outbreak...wear a mask its no big deal..think about others..i easily could
Another question is who decides WHEN masks are no longer needed...msm? Fauci? Trump? Pelosi? Who?
When there are no cases?
Calling people idiots for wanting to stay healthy or not spread their disease?
Classy.
What?? My point is that many would eat themselves into obesity if it meant they'd be supported for life by the government.
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