ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Flourishing???? Tell that to the restaurant owner who is barely scaping by being "allowed" to have open air dining.

There are many restaurants doing better in this environment. A few places by me have expanded their capacity by building out their parking lot, and are doing much better than last year. Evolve or die. Nobody said opening a restaurant was risk free.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greg2020
Good news on the antibody treatment front. Scale was always a problem, with Regeneron previously saying they were only going to have around 1 million preventative doses. With this partnership, they are now saying they’ll have 4-8 million. Still not enough to go around, but probably a good stopgap solution as the vaccines wind up.

 
Have they released efficiency results yet?
They did release some. On day 3, Leronlimab outperformed placebo 90% to 71% on symptoms score but at Day 14, it was not statistically significant because in the mild to moderate patients, they get better on their own . This is why it is so hard to prove statistically significance, in a small patient sample 56/28 of 2 to 1 Leronlimab to placebo in the mild population. However, when it came to the News score, which is an objective standard and was a secondary endpoint , there was clear statistically significance of 50% to 20 percent with a p value of .02 , under the .05threshold. That is what they will use to try and get approval with the FDA and also submitted to the U.K., the Eu, Phillipines , Israel, and Mexico .
The FDA is either going have them do a Phase 3or give EUA and should actually do both because of Leronlimab safety profile and no severe adverse side effects compared to all the other drugs racing for approval . Decision any day now. The real stark results will be in the severe/ critical trial. Need to get that to 195 enrolled ASAP.
 
Good news on the antibody treatment front. Scale was always a problem, with Regeneron previously saying they were only going to have around 1 million preventative doses. With this partnership, they are now saying they’ll have 4-8 million. Still not enough to go around, but probably a good stopgap solution as the vaccines wind up.

Not sure if you saw my post on this earlier, but the one nugget in there is that my friend, who is very high up at Regeneron, said the announcement says a lot about the optimism surrounding this treatment. Hopefully we get an early read in mid-September. Much depends on enrollment rate.
 
Summary: 68% with antibodies in Corona, Queens and 56% in Jackson Heights - translates to IFRs of 0.73% and 0.70%, respectively...and what that means...

As of June 26, CityMD had administered about 314,000 antibody tests in New York City, with 26 percent of the tests coming back positive. This is not far off from the 21.6% of NYC residents testing positive back on 6/13 when testing was done by the State (and had 13.4% positive in all of NY). Also, like the State study, this study showed some amazing stats, including 68% testing positive for antibodies in Corona and 56% in Jackson Heights, both in Queens, while in Cobble Hill, a wealthy neighborhood in Brooklyn, only 13% tested positive. While it sucked for these places that were hit so hard, at least perhaps they're now at or close to "herd immunity" and won't see many more cases, even if there's a 2nd wave in NYC, whereas these areas with a lot less positives are much more vulnerable.

More interesting might be the overall stats on Corona, for example. That section of Queens has 112,000 people and has had 4834 cases, so far (43,320 per 1MM), twice the NY State rate and 4-5X the US rate, per capita, which isn't surprising with 68% with antibodies. In addition, Corona has seen 441 deaths or 3950 per 1MM, which is 2.5X the NY rate and almost 10X the US rate, per capita. The case fatality rate is 9.1% vs. 7.5% for NY and 4.2% for the US (was 5% a few weeks ago, but cases have increased far faster than deaths recently), but more interestingly, the infection fatality rate is 0.58% (441/89K x 0.68), which might be the most complete data set we have on a community close to herd immunity, i.e., near the endpoint of the pandemic.

I've been arguing for awhile that the eventual IFR would be 0.5-1.0%, based on the NY State IFR of 1.1% from 6/13, which was based on 30,700 dead vs. 2.68MM infected (20MM x 13.4% w/antibodies in NY) and assuming the IFR may have been a bit high in NYC due to demographics or other factors, plus the research, so far showing the likely IFR rates would be 0.5-1.0%). NY is a larger population so that might make NY's IFR more "trustworthy" but Corona's is obviously near the endpoint, which gives that data some importance too. Corona also has 78% Hispanic Americans, which have been dying at a significantly greater rate than white or Asian Americans, which could also skew the IFR a bit, possibly bringing the Corona IFR down around 0.4-0.5% if normalized to a typical ethnic demographic. For Jackson Heights (zip 11372 as per the link), the numbers translate to 253 deaths in 65K people, of which 56% have antibodies, for an IFR of 0.70%, almost identical to Corona's, but Jackson Heights has a much more diverse ethnic makeup (55% Hispanic, 18% white and 20% Asian), so the IFR depression would likely be less than Corona's would be (maybe to 0.5-0.6% (these are guesstimates).

And I have to remind people that if the IFR is 0.5-1.0% and 55-80% will become infected (using the range most epidemiologists use and not Corona's 68%), that translates to a possible 0.9-2.6 million US deaths, eventually, assuming these data can be extrapolated and assuming the absolute worst case of no good treatments, cure or vaccine, as well as no interventiions to reduce transmissions/deaths (not realistic, but good for pandemic planning). Potential numbers like this are why I feel like I've been screaming about why we're not following the path of the many countries that have case/death rates that are 50-100X less than ours, i.e., masking/distancing to reduce cases/deaths and testing, tracing, and isolating to control flare-ups (and also reduce cases/deaths) - and some of these countries have done this without lockdowns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-antibodies.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/nyregion/new-york-city-coronavirus-cases.html

Interesting article today in the Times updating antibody testing results from NYC clinics reported on about 6 weeks ago (post above). The data were largely collected by CityMD at various clinics across the City and they show some neighborhoods (with high levels of black/Latino populations that tend to work at high risk jobs and utilize risky mass transit) at 40-55% infected (like Corona - yes Corona - Queens with 52%) and some with as low as 12-15% (you guessed it - rich, white neighborhoods where telecommuting is much more prevalent); see the map. Was also interesting that Corona showed 68% 2 months ago, but with a much smaller sample size, so the 52% is much more likely to be accurate.

https://www.nytimes.com/…/nyregion/new-york-city-antibody-t…

Some of these neighborhoods aren't that far from what most have been thinking would be herd immunity levels (55-80%) for months and if some of the indications of existing T-cell-based immunity is correct, it's possible these neighborhoods are even closer to herd immunity. Here's a point to remember though. If you happen to be from a neighborhood with 50% infected, yes, the chances of being infected in your neighborhood are much lower, but if you travel to areas with active outbreaks (and many less infected) your chance of being infected are just as high as those of other people in that other location.

One other small caveat with regard to the data, which one can see in the last paragraph in the article. These were people who came to a clinic to get tested, so the pool isn't random and likely reflects somewhat greater numbers than actually infected (since people who go to get tested are more likely to be infected); the NY State tests in May and mid-June were almost random (people approached who were out and about) and were a bit lower across the board than these results. For example, the NY study showed 21.6% with antibodies across NYC,while the new data shows 27% - and each borough is several % greater in the "non-random" testing vs. the random testing from June, but they're not so far off as to be unusable at all.


fJsY20N.png
 
There are many restaurants doing better in this environment. A few places by me have expanded their capacity by building out their parking lot, and are doing much better than last year. Evolve or die. Nobody said opening a restaurant was risk free.
True - I know several restaurants, delis, etc. that are doing better, especially the ones that quickly adapted to providing contact-less takeout, building loyalty for providing good food, safely at a tough time for many. And while it sucked for many of those places to lose wait staff, the restaurants get by with much less staff when it's all takeout, so as long as they maintain volume they can do well (and there are plenty of folks like us, who still tip 20% even without wait service, just out of principle, trying to help out). The places I feel the worst for are bars and entertainment venues that simply aren't going to get much business even once they open in many locations, as people know those are the riskiest places to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greg2020
True - I know several restaurants, delis, etc. that are doing better, especially the ones that quickly adapted to providing contact-less takeout, building loyalty for providing good food, safely at a tough time for many. And while it sucked for many of those places to lose wait staff, the restaurants get by with much less staff when it's all takeout, so as long as they maintain volume they can do well (and there are plenty of folks like us, who still tip 20% even without wait service, just out of principle, trying to help out). The places I feel the worst for are bars and entertainment venues that simply aren't going to get much business even once they open in many locations, as people know those are the riskiest places to go.


LOL at restaurants, delis that are doing better outdoor dining then indoor. How much do they pay wait staff ?? $2/hr?? Show me the data that says this. Tell an owner that they are doing better outside than inside and they will kick you in the chops.
 
Last edited:
The FDA put emergency approval of use of convalescent plasma on hold for now. It's an interesting decision, heavily influenced by the fact that 5 months into an expanded access program overseen by the Mayo Clinic in which ~90,000 COVID patients have been treated with plasma, we still don't have a randomized controlled trial (RCT) on this, something I've been complaining about since April.

The data, so far, clearly show the treatment is safe, and numerous analyses from the Mayo folks and other small studies show potentially significant mortality reduction benefits, but these are observational results not RCTs (see my previous post on this, linked above).

One of the reasons the FDA likely didn't provide the emergency use approval is that that would make it even harder to get RCTs completed, plus I think they don't want another HCQ fiasco, where emergency use was approved prematurely and then rescinded. The FDA really needs to put some more effort into completing an RCT on this, as many doctors are convinced that plasma is effective, as it has been in past infectious disease outbreaks/pandemics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/19/us/politics/blood-plasma-covid-19.html

Big Pharma doesn't make any money from Blood Plasma.
Or from HCQ :Wink:
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
NJ has the toughest restrictions of any state..true or false
I really don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is true.

And for the record I would open gyms and indoor dining to some level of capacity.

Still this is different then "these states are open and doing fine, while NJ is closed".
 
If anyone is looking for a great outdoor dining experience, head to New Brunswick. They've done a wonderful job and George St is totally shaded by late afternoon. Plenty of options and the nights I've been there most places are very busy. It should 100% become a permanent fixture of New Brunswick summers.

I think that Murphy will allow some indoor dining (33-50% capacity?) post Labor Day to prevent shore bars from trying crazy things (see DJais the first weekend outdoor dining was allowed). Or by the latest, late September once we have some data in after schools reopening.
 
This idea that NY had this many deaths while all these restrictions were in place is so disingenuous. The spread of the infection came before the lockdowns were put in place.

People arguing otherwise are either being willfully dishonest or extremely ignorant.

Nursing homes wave from their windows
 
it's a city, it's urban.
what % of the US population is NYC ?

Next time try contributing to this thread without political motives?
The original statement was: "If you knew anything about Sweden, you'd know that it and NY are very different; one is much more urbanized than the other."

Do you disagree that NYC and Sweden are different? That one is more urbanized then the other?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Greg2020
True - I know several restaurants, delis, etc. that are doing better, especially the ones that quickly adapted to providing contact-less takeout, building loyalty for providing good food, safely at a tough time for many. And while it sucked for many of those places to lose wait staff, the restaurants get by with much less staff when it's all takeout, so as long as they maintain volume they can do well (and there are plenty of folks like us, who still tip 20% even without wait service, just out of principle, trying to help out). The places I feel the worst for are bars and entertainment venues that simply aren't going to get much business even once they open in many locations, as people know those are the riskiest places to go.
There is a dive bar in Sayreville I drive by everyday (its the dive bar of dive bars) and they have resorted to putting a couple tables outside in the parking lot so their regulars can sit and drink, while I chuckle at their attempt I feel sorry for the owners who are just trying to get by in life with the rotten cards we've all been dealt. Places that serve food can at least do takeout, but places like this really have no other revenue flow to speak of.
 
There is a dive bar in Sayreville I drive by everyday (its the dive bar of dive bars) and they have resorted to putting a couple tables outside in the parking lot so their regulars can sit and drink, while I chuckle at their attempt I feel sorry for the owners who are just trying to get by in life with the rotten cards we've all been dealt. Places that serve food can at least do takeout, but places like this really have no other revenue flow to speak of.

Everyone's business is essential.

When people in charge of the State don't use science and data you get what we are seeing in NJ sadly

People's livelihoods going down the tubes.

While in most other states science is being utilized to make policy.

The curve has been flattened like a pancake.

We were asked for 15 days to flatten the curve, it took a little longer but it's beyond flattened now in NJ.

Widespread testing of healthy people without symptoms is a waste of time and money.

Especially with faulty tests and shakey and shady labs administering the testing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Knight177lb
it's a city, it's urban.
what % of the US population is NYC ?

Next time try contributing to this thread without political motives?

If you could read, you could figure out that the comparison being made was *not* between the U.S. and Sweden, but between NYC and Sweden. As my numbers show, they are very different despite the existence of Stockholm.

And when was the last time *you* posted without a political motive? Everything you write about politics is counterfactual. Stick to sports, OK? At least there you know what you're talking about, at least some of the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kiamde and Greg2020
Which implies that it is possible we learn something from what China is saying. Which is fine, but that is certainly a reversal for you.

Trust nothing but keep an open mind and ask a lot of questions

Thats been my approach with the Chinese virus
 
If you could read, you could figure out that the comparison being made was *not* between the U.S. and Sweden, but between NYC and Sweden. As my numbers show, they are very different despite the existence of Stockholm.

And when was the last time *you* posted without a political motive? Everything you write about politics is counterfactual. Stick to sports, OK? At least there you know what you're talking about, at least some of the time.

Oh the irony with you.

Sad
 
Here's something worth of a study:Are heavy coffee drinkers more susceptible to the virus?
As an experiment,I checked my blood oxygen levels both before and after I drank 2 cans of Vanilla Coke.
Before:99
After: 95.

Since high oxygen levels in the blood are desirable for recovery from illness-something I just looked up online-wouldn't that make heavy coffee drinking a co-morbidity?
Maybe it was the sugar that dropped O2
 
It depends where in Pennsylvania you're talking about. Unlike NJ, Pa. did not take a statewide approach. (That makes sense; it is a much larger and more varied state than PA.) The states are not doing the same thing. For once, check your facts before posting.
True. Pittsburgh in the west, Philly in the east, Alabama in the middle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: m1ipabrams
If you could read, you could figure out that the comparison being made was *not* between the U.S. and Sweden, but between NYC and Sweden. As my numbers show, they are very different despite the existence of Stockholm.

And when was the last time *you* posted without a political motive? Everything you write about politics is counterfactual. Stick to sports, OK? At least there you know what you're talking about, at least some of the time.

Not to quibble, but I see it as NY State, not NY City. There are plenty of less urban areas in NY State, just like Sweden.
And I'be been to Sweden and Stockholm is very urban. It's not NY City, of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATIOH
Time for the weekly update in bulleted format. Getting more involved in some work these days, which is why my posting is down. Some will rejoice, others maybe not, lol.
  • Still using 7-day moving averages on a per capita (per 1MM) basis for most of the discussions of cases, hospitalizations and deaths (especially for comparing states), from the Covidtracking site.
  • National Stats: cases peaked around 65-68K/day for awhile (~2X the peak from wave 1), but declined the past week or two and have now plateaued again in the range of ~55K cases/day for about the past week. Hospitalizations peaked at about ~60K, which is very close to the peak in the first wave, but if the dynamics were the same as the first wave, this 2nd peak would have also been ~2X what they were in the first wave, not roughly the same, meaning the hospitalization rate is roughly half the rate it was for the first wave (relative to cases). Deaths are up over 2X from their early July low and they've now clearly peaked at a rate of about 1000-1150 per day (7-day MA) over the past 2 weeks, which is about half of the April peak (2100-2250/day in April). So, relatively speaking, a bit of better news, although our current peak death rates are still worse than all but a handful of countries with over 50MM in population (Brazil, Mexico, Colombia and South Africa), per capita. As I've been saying for weeks now, hospitalizations and deaths are likely half of what they were in wave 1 due to the combination of younger patient profile, more testing (per capita vs. NJ) leading to more mild cases, and improved medical procedures/pharmaceutical treatments.
  • Cases in AZ/FL/TX/CA: For the 4 states I've been looking at, closely (Florida, Texas, California, as all three spiked and are the 3 largest states, plus Arizona, as it peaked earlier and has a similar population as NJ, the comparator) cases are continuing to decline in AZ and it's now clear that cases are declining in FL/TX and they were in CA, but CA spiked back up to its old peak level the past few days. Another interesting observation is that FL/TX/AZ have all seen major drops (30-60% down from their recent peaks) in reported tests, which is a little disconcerting, as part of the case decrease is very likely due to the major drop in testing, especially given the rises in positive tests seen in all three states. No idea why they'd be reducing testing. As per last week's post, the AZ case peak was about 30% more, per capita (per 1MM people) than the NJ peak (about 3500/day or 400/1MM), while the FL peak was ~50% more, the TX peak was ~10% less and the CA peak was ~40% less.
  • Hospitalizations in AZ/FL/TX/CA: AZ's hospitalizations peaked (and are declining) at ~55% of NJ's (which were 8000 total or 900 per 1MM), while FL peaked at about 50% of NJ's per capita rate (and is declining) and TX peaked at ~45% of NJ's rate and is now declining. CA peaked last week at 25% of NJ's peak and have started to decline. As per previous reports, these reductions vs. NJ are likely due to the much younger age of those infected in this wave, combined with far more aggressive testing than during our peak (we had positivity rates of 40-50% due to lack of tests), which is discovering more mild/asymptomatic cases.
  • Deaths in AZ/FL/TX/CA: My guesstimate has been that deaths in AZ/FL/TX would likely be about 1/3-2/3 of the peaks of NJ (about 270-300/day or ~31/1MM), partly due to the younger age and milder cases of those infected (as above) and partly due to improved treatments and procedures. AZ peaked at ~40% of NJ's peak and despite having major fluctuations, they're death rates have been declining for about the past week or so, although they spiked up to their 2nd highest daily total today. FL was at about 30% of NJ's peak llast week and seemed like they were starting to decline, but they had their all-time highest death peak yesterday, so it's premature to day they're declining yet. TX looks like they may have peaked at about 1/3 of NJ's peak and might be starting to decline, but again, their fluctuations have been large, so calling it a decline yet is tough. CA's case/hospitalization rates have been well below the other 3 states and their death rate appears to be leveling off at about 12% of NJ's peak, as I've been predicting based on lower case rates per capita vs. the other 3 states. It's quite possible that deaths have been on the low side of my guesstimates given the recent data showing convalescent plasma likely has over a 50% mortality reduction and it's being used heavily in these states. Also, keep an eye on Georgia, whose deaths have been rising quickly; they're already at about 20-25% of NJ's peak.
  • Getting back to the big picture, it's good to see that most states are now seeing flat or declining levels of cases, with only a few increasing (most were increasing several weeks ago); however, due to the 2-4 week lag from cases to deaths, deaths are still increasing or flat in many states.
https://covidtracking.com/data#chart-annotations
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...rus&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storylines_menu

SbfVv0M.png


JRRTZ2I.png


WJgBpzk.png




n0Q3C1X.png


QT9FKzc.png


r4qSlfY.png

Time for the weekly update in bulleted format...in the very big picture, this "wave 2" has featured case peaks that were twice what they were in "wave 1" (although "wave 1" likely was well undercounted, due to lack of testing for much of it and wave 2 featured a much younger/milder infected population) and a hospitalization peak which was about the same as in wave 1 (likely more accurate than cases), but has had a death peak about half what it was in wave 1, which given similar hospitalization numbers, very likely means improved medical procedures and pharmaceutical treatments have had a significant effect.
  • Still using 7-day moving averages on a per capita (per 1MM) basis for most of the discussions of cases, hospitalizations and deaths (especially for comparing states), from the Covidtracking site.
  • National Stats: After a 2-week peak at 65-68K/day from mid-July until the end of July (~2X the peak from wave 1, although wave 1 was likely well undercounted, due to lack of testing), cases have been slowly declining and the 7-day avg is now down below 50K/day for the first time since the beginning of July, which is good news. Hospitalizations peaked at about ~60K in late July, which is very close to the peak in the first wave, but if the dynamics were the same as the first wave, this 2nd peak would have also been ~2X what they were in the first wave, not roughly the same, meaning the hospitalization rate is roughly half the rate it was for the first wave (relative to cases). As per previous posts, hospitalizations are likely ~1/2 of what they were in wave 1 due to the combination of younger patient profile and more testing (per capita) leading to more mild cases. Deaths are up over 2X from their early July low and they've now clearly peaked at a rate of about 1000-1150 per day (7-day MA) over the past 3 weeks, which is about half of the April peak (2100-2250/day); given similar hospitalization rates, the most obvious reason for 1/2 the death rate is improved medical procedures/pharmaceutical treatments. So, relatively speaking, a bit of better news, although our current peak death rates are still worse than all but a handful of countries with over 50MM in population (Brazil, Mexico, Colombia), per capita.
  • Cases in AZ/FL/TX/CA: For the 4 states I've been looking at, closely (Florida, Texas, California, as all three spiked and are the 3 largest states, plus Arizona, as it peaked earlier and has a similar population as NJ, the comparator) cases are continuing to decline in AZ, FL, and TX and they're declining again in CA after a 2nd spike. Another interesting observation is that FL/TX/AZ have all seen major drops (30-60% down from their recent peaks) in reported tests, which is a little disconcerting, as part of the case decrease is very likely due to the major drop in testing, especially given the rises in positive tests seen in all three states. No idea why they'd be reducing testing, although testing in TX did jump back up significantly this past week. As per last week's post, the AZ case peak was about 30% more, per capita (per 1MM people) than the NJ peak (about 3500/day or 400/1MM), while the FL peak was ~50% more, the TX peak was ~10% less and the CA peak was ~40% less.
  • Hospitalizations in AZ/FL/TX/CA: AZ's hospitalizations peaked (and continue declining) at ~55% of NJ's (which were 8000 total or 900 per 1MM), while FL peaked at about 50% of NJ's per capita rate (and is declining) and TX peaked at ~45% of NJ's rate and is now declining. CA peaked last week at 25% of NJ's peak and are also declining. As per previous reports, these reductions vs. NJ are likely due to the much younger age of those infected in this wave, combined with far more aggressive testing than during our peak (we had positivity rates of 40-50% due to lack of tests), which is discovering more mild/asymptomatic cases.
  • Deaths in AZ/FL/TX/CA: My guesstimate has been that deaths in AZ/FL/TX would likely be about 1/3-2/3 of the peaks of NJ (about 270-300/day or ~31/1MM), partly due to the younger age and milder cases of those infected (as above) and partly due to improved treatments and procedures. AZ peaked at ~40% of NJ's peak and despite having major fluctuations, they're death rates have been slowly declining for the past 2 weeks. FL peaked at about 30% of NJ's peak 2 weeks ago and declined a bit, but jumped back up, so it's premature to day they're declining yet. TX peaked at about 1/3 of NJ's peak and declined a bit since then, but leveled off close to their peak. CA's case/hospitalization rates have been well below the other 3 states and their death rate peaked at about 12% of NJ's peak (and is now declining), as I've been predicting based on lower case rates per capita vs. the other 3 states. In hindsight, deaths in FL/TX/AX were likely on the low side of my guesstimates vs. NJ's mostly because hospitalization rates were lower than I thought they'd be (45-55% of NJ's), whereas I had accounted for improved medical procedures/treatments for people once they were hospitalized, reducing death rates.
  • Getting back to the big picture, it's good to see that most states are now seeing flat or declining levels of cases, with only about 10 increasing (most were increasing several weeks ago); interestingly, the ones increasing now are the ones that have been hit the least so far and are some of the least densely populated states (like ND, SD, WY, VT, KS, and ME). Also, due to the 2-4 week lag from cases to deaths, deaths are still increasing or flat in many states.
https://covidtracking.com/data#chart-annotations
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

Kx2wRaV.png


gmon2Mx.png


frxQWwr.png




qZstjKw.png

118089967_10219859527512639_7277106631361834378_o.jpg
118082828_10219859524672568_5057006544802933542_o.jpg
 
Last edited:
J&J sure got their act together quick. Huge 60k person Phase 3 trial starting in September. Hoping to start emergency use in the beginning of 2021. Only a month or two behind Moderna/Pfizer/AZ.

 
Details from Phase 1/2 of the Pfizer vaccine was released today. Pfizer had 2 candidates they were testing. They previously released data of the one they didn’t pick, this time it’s the detail of the one they are moving forward with. This candidate is more safe and should be more effective, so I guess that’s why they picked this.


@RU848789 Your boy Derek Lowe just wrote a piece on it too
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT