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I know you’re just playing Devil’s advocate. But when you point out academically-respected colleges that don’t emphasize athletics, why do you only list a handful of smaller (comparitively) private schools? There’s still a vocal contingent at RU who think the college is small and private; it is neither and its mission has changed over 4 decades ago. There isn’t a single flagship state university located in a populous state that doesn’t play D1 ball. And if you play D1 ball, you have to care at least significantly about sports. The last school I can think of would be UMass. SUNY doesn’t count because there really is no flagship campus and...SUNY Buffalo is giddy with anticipation at scoring 50+ points on us.
after 40 years a season ticket holder i'm throwing in the towel with this program. hobbs gave this guy an extention, was he drunk? the only way to salvage this debacle is to hire schiano. can you imagine ash for another 5 years?
The point of my post is...if you took a poll of the students as to why they choose Rutgers I highly doubt a majority of them would list athletics as the reason they chose to go to Rutgers...I also highly doubt that attendance and applications are hurting because the football team isn’t any good...sure for some kids attending sporting events is important as to their college experience but it just seems to me football is an afterthought to most Rutgers students...
I really do not think the university leadership sees a good football program as a catalyst to academic standing and success amongst its peers
Why the he'll would they? We pretty much suck at most sports. And have for most years.
I’d say to most if not all on this board, college athletics was a big factor in their decision...but this board is not a relevant sample population of the average Rutgers student, if it was both the football and basketball games would be much better attended no matter how bad the teams were...
If you all take a step back and think about the average Rutgers student, you have to seriously question what percentage of the student body really cares if the football team is any good...
Exactly...and has the university suffered with a declining student population? Is the university struggling to fill out its classes with qualified students?
Do your percentages include the large number of non international Asian/Indian students that more so than not do not care about Rutgers football? Two of my best high school friends, both Indian, went to Rutgers and never went to a football game and neither did any of their circle of friends...and there were a ton of them...
That's probably why so many NJ kids go to State Penn. Philly to the east. Pittsburg to the west. Alabama in the middle.
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Man, this was a good article.
I watched the game at a watch party so I couldn’t really see the bench and the players and how Ash was acting but that information about his behavior during the game is alarming.
I’m just concerned about firing him at the end of the year and trusting us to be able to get someone good with the current financial situation and the current perception of the program.
I watched the game at a watch party so I couldn’t really see the bench and the players and how Ash was acting but that information about his behavior during the game is alarming.
I’m just concerned about firing him at the end of the year and trusting us to be able to get someone good with the current financial situation and the current perception of the program.
That is totally nuts. The only way I could see that being reasonable is if UCF has a better program for their major, and job placement out of school.
UCF has a rep going with its huge classes, and developing a network for their students. Wonder where it will be in 50 yrs?
No, why would the percentage include them? You mentioned "international" students, not domestic students of varying Asian (or other) ethnicities. International students, whether they're from Europe, Asia, South America, or wherever, are fairly insignificant as the percentage suggests.
The number and percentage of domestic Asian-American (South Asian, East Asian, and Southeast Asian ancestry) students has climbed over the years, no doubt. Your example is anecdotal so it seems you've arrived at a conclusion that confirms your limited observations. My equally anecdotal experience is that many of those students more often than not actually did care about and followed Rutgers sports.
Perhaps we can agree that there are many of them who attend football and hoops games while acknowledging that there are likely many more of them who do not. But the kicker is that the exact same thing can be said of the white student majority.
So I agree with what you've posted elsewhere in this thread to the extent that the average Rutgers student (representative of all backgrounds) is generally apathetic towards the athletics programs.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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God I hope this isn't the logic you use in work. I get you have a point of view but it's troubling that it's so narrow minded and you stick to it without any actual knowledge or research on the subject.
applications are actually down since their peak during Greg's run and the incoming gpa/sat are lower than the height of applications under Greg when the school was a media darling and football was the driver to better perception across the tri-state area and nationally.
see my earlier post on the subject. Football lifts all boats
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correct, international students have varying reasons for applying, more about visa, program, and other qualifying factors than sports.
Pat Hobbs could have taken 60 days, and he still would have come up with the same result. Hiring a football coach is different from hiring a basketball coach. He didn’t realize how important local ties and FL ties were to our recruiting for football. Instead, he hired someone who tried to turn Rutgers into Ohio State East, and tried to make Ohio an important part of our recruiting. That didn’t work, which why our recruiting is bad. Then he gave him a small budget which didn’t allow for the hiring of veteran assistants. That first staff was a disaster. The current staff should be better. We’ll see where we’re at soon.
Thanks for sharing...I still don't see it as a slam dunk based on the article but there is some compelling data to at least continue the conversation. Good stuff.
2006 Students standing in line at midnight waiting to buy tickets and GS handing out pizza's. Football was indeed driving school pride.
no, absolutely not. BUT that doesn't mean the number of applications wouldn't be even higher. Your point about the diversity at RU (New Brunswick like top 10-15 in the country. Clearly #1 of major Universities and Newark #3 overall) IS a significant factor with game attendance. You can walk around campus game day and see who is going to the game and who is going to the library. Without a doubt.
Why does it seem like you schedule bad teams and when it’s time to play them, they are better. Your about to play Syracuse, Temple, and BC right?
NJ parents SMH. More money for a lesser education. I don't get it.
Not sure where you're getting your info but it appears to be a bit off. And what do you mean by "Clearly #1 of major universities..."?
Per USNWR, under the national universities category (the same as used for their primary overall rankings) Rutgers-Newark has been #1, or tied for it, in undergrad student body diversity since the late 90s, about 20 years running.
> In the most recent ranking based on fall 2017, Newark was once again at #1, in a tie with UNLV.
> Stanford, Houston, and one other tied at #4.
> UCLA tied at #10, with NJIT and five others.
> NYU tied at #25 with three others.
> Rutgers-NB is tied for #29, with USC, UC-Berkeley, Harvard, and three others.
> UT-Austin tied at #36 with eight others.
> Princeton, Yale, Cornell, and five others tied at #44.
There are lots of ties/groupings due to index scoring methodology, but above is just a sampling of the top 50+ schools comprising the 10 highest diversity index scores according to USNWR. Yes, all of these schools have significant ethnic diversity, but that's not a bad thing. Many of them are highly regarded, nationally prominent schools, including Rutgers-NB. Several have D1 athletics while a few are P5 schools.
Link: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/campus-ethnic-diversity
you're right, I am a bit off. I took it from memory. I meant D1 FOOTBALL schools as we were discussing that subject. We're not #1, but tied for like #5 amoung that pool. To your point not sure if there is much different @ .69 vs. .74 (unless somebody wants to say that 7% more or less diversified). Nor do I think it is a bad thing either (I care far more about the politics/profs than pool of students).
In a large school scenario (say enrollment of 20K undergrads or greater), I don't believe it makes much difference in terms of filling a 10-15K student section.
Based on my above post, is too much diversity a significant factor in student attendance for the Longhorn games in Austin? I've been in the stands for countless Rutgers games and quite a few Texas games. What I've seen is that both have somewhat diverse crowds, including the respective student sections. But due to lack of sustained success, general student apathy at Rutgers occurs across the whole student body, and perhaps even moreso the relative majority white students.
Based on my above post, is too much diversity a significant factor in student attendance for the Longhorn games in Austin? I've been in the stands for countless Rutgers games and quite a few Texas games. What I've seen is that both have somewhat diverse crowds, including the respective student sections. But due to lack of sustained success, general student apathy at Rutgers occurs across the whole student body, and perhaps even moreso the relative majority white students.
There probably isn't that much difference. It's like for the regular USNWR academic rankings, where in most years there's not that much difference in the scoring between say a school in the top 40 versus one in the top 60, including the multiple ties within that range.
well at 35k undergrads at NB....and not even being able to put 1K in the seats at the RAC most games you may have a point..
Makes no sense....the pride of CGHS, I suppose (hope not). If UCF was totally free versus paying full freight at Rutgers I could maybe wrap my head around it, but even then only maybe. UCF can't hold a candle to Rutgers.
Athletics and the football team was a pretty significant reason I chose Rutgers but that was in 2008 when football was in it's prime. Everything about the games was awesome from the tailgating to the game atmosphere to the WINNING.
Since then, student tailgating has been destroyed, the team is God awful and gameday atmosphere has suffered greatly.
If he wins 6 games he may be the conference coach of the year.
He was way overspent at Seton Hall. Was called “Teflon Man” by some of the staff.
The question is not who is to blame but WHAT is to blame.
The answer is not with the current cast of characters or even the myriad of coaches and administrators who proceeded them. The answer lies in geography and the lack of athletic tradition.
Rutgers is situated in the shadows of a city that is pro sports oriented.and despite being the birthplace of college football, it lacks a winning tradition which makes it near impossible to assemble a critical mass of top tier players to be competitive. Rutgers might get an occasional local four star player but that's not enough to compete with programs steeped in tradition and forged with decades of consistent winning. Accordingly, RU is viewed as just a stopping off point for coaches looking to eventually move on to bigger and better jobs. It took Schiano almost a decade to field a winning program and had it not been for one special player (Ray Rice) no one would know who Greg Schiano is today. Greg was lucky and he still never won a conference title outright in a watered down Big East.
No coach today is going to get 6 or 7 years let alone 10 to turn a program around which makes Ash's job near impossible. Sure he may get it to a point where he wins 7 and maybe even 8 games but IMO, that's the ceiling for him in the Big Ten.
So I ask, is that going to satisfy the AD and more importantly the donner's?
Perhaps the former but I doubt the latter.
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