Duke Will have its whole staff at the John Wall Holiday for 2024 PG Dylan Harper

[RUsojo]

Some of them are idiots but I'm pretty skeptical this even works on them. Pitt is going to recruit people by pointing to how many people Duke puts in the NBA? Because it's the "ACC"?

Also, most recent draft:
Big Ten 9
SEC 8
ACC 7
P12 6
B12 4
BE 3
WCC 2

If I had an NBA ready kid I sure wouldn't send him to Kansas. He has more than twice as good a shot in the Big Ten!

2021 Draft
SEC 12
B10/ACC/B12 7
P12/BE 4

Send the kids to Georgia!

Conferences don’t put players in the NBA over others - that’s just silly. The biggest advantage (perhaps only advantage outside of NIL) of choosing a brand name like Duke as a top incoming recruit is mitigating the downside risk of not getting drafted if you don’t have an impactful frosh year. A Jaden Jones type season at Rutgers (even as a top 30 recruit) probably wipes you out of draft contention until you prove yourself at the collegiate level. At Kentucky or Duke, you were sitting behind other 5 stars so you might still be drafted based on potential even without ever being an impact college player.

When it comes to the mechanics of scouting, building draft boards, and a team moving their pieces on/off and up/down accordingly, the more tape you have against NBA players the better off you are without question.

That is just how the process works.

All you have to do is anecdotally recall the mods posts about scouts at the RAC aligning with TJD playing here to see a small cog in the machine to understand how the players accumulate exposure and in turn gain the confidence of a scout to bang the table for them.

Contrary to popular belief scouts (in both football and basketball) are NOT watching most of these kids games.

 

[RUsojo]

Duke doesn't develop NBA players, they just take kids already going to NBA.

Kids who go to duke usually are worse off in the NBA (outside of a few guys, tatum zion banchero)

Worse off in the NBA? Lol what

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

When it comes to the mechanics of scouting, building draft boards, and a team moving their pieces on/off and up/down accordingly, the more tape you have against NBA players the better off you are without question.

That is just how the process works.

All you have to do is anecdotally recall the mods posts about scouts at the RAC aligning with TJD playing here to see a small cog in the machine to understand how the players accumulate exposure and in turn gain the confidence of a scout to bang the table for them.

Contrary to popular belief scouts (in both football and basketball) are NOT watching most of these kids games.

Most people dont understand how the scouting thing works. Nba “scouts” are largely independent contractors who report back to teams. Guy i play with (same one that coached jq and luther) is an “area scout” for the pistons

 

[RUsojo]

Most people dont understand how the scouting thing works. Nba “scouts” are largely independent contractors who report back to teams. Guy i play with (same one that coached jq and luther) is an “area scout” for the pistons

Looks that way. That’s fine if you don’t know like not everyone should be expected to know how it works but for the people that’s don’t, why make stuff up?

Like hawk last year said something about Pacheco and scouts watching his every game when I know team that only watched a handful of games

 

[Mbash93]

Worse off in the NBA? Lol what

Idk how to make it make sense for you, but Duke doesn't develop kids for the NBA, most of the kids that make it there from Duke would have gone to NBA if they went to any school.

It's not impressive if you filter out the kids that weren't 5 stars that made it to NBA from Duke.

 

[RUsojo]

Idk how to make it make sense for you, but Duke doesn't develop kids for the NBA, most of the kids that make it there from Duke would have gone to NBA if they went to any school.

It's not impressive if you filter out the kids that weren't 5 stars that made it to NBA from Duke.

This doesn’t touch on Duke kids being worse off in the nba at all

 

[S_Janowski]

Rutgers bball is in better shape, as it should be in year 7 compared to football in year 3.

My comparison is a very very good one. Im sorry but 5*’s dont care about anything other than the nba. So with that in mind, ask yourself, duke or rutgers. This one isnt nearly as hard as youre trying to make it out to be. Much like a 5* qb just wants to go where theyll be best developed for the nfl. You guy where you think will best get you ready to make $$$ at the next level.

Duke or Rutgers will not materially impact a kid like Dylan’s path the to the NBA or how much $ he makes in his career lol.

 

[Scarlet83]

17 year olds don’t think like 60-70 year olds.

Rutgers bball is in better shape, as it should be in year 7 compared to football in year 3.

My comparison is a very very good one. Im sorry but 5*’s dont care about anything other than the nba. So with that in mind, ask yourself, duke or rutgers. This one isnt nearly as hard as youre trying to make it out to be. Much like a 5* qb just wants to go where theyll be best developed for the nfl. You guy where you think will best get you ready to make $$$ at the next level.

Your comparison is horrible.

 

[Scangg]

This doesn’t touch on Duke kids being worse off in the nba at all

I think he's saying that a lot of Duke players are busts in the NBA or at least underpeform their draft value. They might have been better off if they went somewhere else and developed their game better

I guess you could argue that Coach K got these players more money than they were actually worth which is an argument to be made

Again, players like Kyrie and Taytum who were top 5 overall 5 star type elite stud recruits are going to the NBA regardless. It wasn't Duke that got them there

 

[Scangg]

Your comparison is horrible.

He still doesn't seem to grasp the difference in the gap between Duke vs Rutgers in basketball and an elite option in football for a QB vs Rutgers bottom 5 D1 offense with a bad OL, no OC, and no elite WRs that has zero recent success

The gap between the two analogies is the grand canyon

Rutgers is maybe the worst option for a P5 QB

Rutgers basketball is a desirable destination as seen with all the highly rated recruits showing interest. Current Louisville would be a better comp

 

[RUsojo]

I think he's saying that a lot of Duke players are busts in the NBA or at least underpeform their draft value. They might have been better off if they went somewhere else and developed their game better

I guess you could argue that Coach K got these players more money than they were actually worth which is an argument to be made

Again, players like Kyrie and Taytum who were top 5 overall 5 star type elite stud recruits are going to the NBA regardless. It wasn't Duke that got them there

Ah ok I’m not sure how that is determined or who he is considering a bust? I’m having a hard time thinking of any busts from Duke in the last 15 years and am able to think of quite a few guys who got drafted end of first round that played nearly 10 years and undrafted guys who got multiple nba contracts.

I’m guessing he’s a Philly guy and thinking Okafor who was taken in one of the worst drafts this century where Booker was taken 10 picks later but that was it.

 

[RUKen]

I think he's saying that a lot of Duke players are busts in the NBA or at least underpeform their draft value. They might have been better off if they went somewhere else and developed their game better

I guess you could argue that Coach K got these players more money than they were actually worth which is an argument to be made

Again, players like Kyrie and Taytum who were top 5 overall 5 star type elite stud recruits are going to the NBA regardless. It wasn't Duke that got them there

Has to be true. Kyrie barely played at Duke. 11 games I believe

 

[Scarlet83]

He still doesn't seem to grasp the difference in the gap between Duke vs Rutgers in basketball and an elite option in football for a QB vs Rutgers bottom 5 D1 offense with a bad OL, no OC, and no elite WRs that has zero recent success

The gap between the two analogies is the grand canyon

Rutgers is maybe the worst option for a P5 QB

Rutgers basketball is a desirable destination as seen with all the highly rated recruits showing interest. Current Louisville would be a better comp

Absolutely.

I seriously think that Pike stole kyk’s 5th grade gf during recess back in the day.

 

[RU205]

Rutgers is in very good position with Harper. No need to argue about 5* QBs and other things.

 

[RUsojo]

He still doesn't seem to grasp the difference in the gap between Duke vs Rutgers in basketball and an elite option in football for a QB vs Rutgers bottom 5 D1 offense with a bad OL, no OC, and no elite WRs that has zero recent success

The gap between the two analogies is the grand canyon

Rutgers is maybe the worst option for a P5 QB

Rutgers basketball is a desirable destination as seen with all the highly rated recruits showing interest. Current Louisville would be a better comp

Idk I think there is a lot of merit to @kyk1827 comparison. It may actually be even more in favor of his position and the reason why is this - Duke runs an nba style offense. Rutgers basketball does not run an nba style offense and there is very little opportunity to demonstrate the offensive skills the nba covets at Rutgers in our offense vs the opportunity at Duke.

I mean look at his brother, who played out of position at Rutgers for years and completely changed his body in 2 months and played in a new position in NBA camps for scouts.

In football, at least Rutgers is trying to run simile concepts used in the NFL and plays against a lot of NFL talent compared to other leagues.

For what it’s worth Rutgers basketball offense efficiency rating is 111 spots lower than Duke. Rutegrs football 119 spots lower on Offensive FEI than USC. (Note this is not worth much lol)

 

[wheezer]

Yes everyone that's acting like this is close to a sure thing

Hopeful at best
You are getting this wrong

 

[RUJMM78]

Duke doesn't develop NBA players, they just take kids already going to NBA.

Kids who go to duke usually are worse off in the NBA (outside of a few guys, tatum zion banchero)

That fact hasn't stopped elite recruite from choosing Duke .Perception matters which is the reason Duke,Kentucky and Kansas continue to attract 4/5 star recruits.

 

[biazza38]

nebraska while not a better team runs an nba system more conducive for getting players drafted if we're being honest here. They've had guys drafted in the past 2 drafts. I don't think you are willing to recognize that the system pike runs isn't friendly to kids looking to shine their scoring ability in preparation for the nba. This is well known and not really breaking news.

As I always say here, unless we all bow and say Pike is the greatest coach in america we get ripped. You guys are literally taking the position that a BASKETBALL player should choose RU over Duke!!! LOL. Think of how crazy you've gotten that you've landed on that position

Hear me out, maybe just maybe the system is a product of the players we have.
Here’s a crazy idea, Pike can change his system with someone like Dylan. You’re so anti Pike it’s annoying. Your football contributions have been great, but you’re constantly wrong on basketball and continue to just bash your head into the wall.
5 star guys don’t always commit to Duke and Kansas and UNC.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Duke or Rutgers will not materially impact a kid like Dylan’s path the to the NBA or how much $ he makes in his career lol.

lol ok. you might wanna look into the difference in $$$ from even the #10 overall pick and #30.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Hear me out, maybe just maybe the system is a product of the players we have.
Here’s a crazy idea, Pike can change his system with someone like Dylan. You’re so anti Pike it’s annoying. Your football contributions have been great, but you’re constantly wrong on basketball and continue to just bash your head into the wall.
5 star guys don’t always commit to Duke and Kansas and UNC.

haha dude you guys are going absolutely insane on me here because im literally just saying that duke puts more guys into the nba, their system and surrounding cast is more friendly for nba talent and that if dylan wants to be a 1 and done it's extremely understandable and probably the right move to go to DUKE. haha. You guys are insane

 

[S_Janowski]

Idk I think there is a lot of merit to @kyk1827 comparison. It may actually be even more in favor of his position and the reason why is this - Duke runs an nba style offense. Rutgers basketball does not run an nba style offense and there is very little opportunity to demonstrate the offensive skills the nba covets at Rutgers in our offense vs the opportunity at Duke.

I mean look at his brother, who played out of position at Rutgers for years and completely changed his body in 2 months and played in a new position in NBA camps for scouts.

In football, at least Rutgers is trying to run simile concepts used in the NFL and plays against a lot of NFL talent compared to other leagues.

For what it’s worth Rutgers basketball offense efficiency rating is 111 spots lower than Duke. Rutegrs football 119 spots lower on Offensive FEI than USC. (Note this is not worth much lol)

There’s not a lot of merit to kyk’s comparison because it’s very simple:

- Dylan’s path to the NBA and the $ he can make over his career, as the #5 recruit in the nation, will not materially be impacted by his decision to attend the current programs at Rutgers or Duke. He would not be taking a major risk by attending Rutgers as we currently have a program, team and infrastructure to support his success.

- A hypothetical top QB in NJ who attends Rutgers to play football vs. Lincoln Riley/USC would most certainly be taking a risk (considering the current state of our Oline, Receivers, OC, HC, inability to attract top recruits or compete with top teams). That decision could materially impact their path to the NFL or earnings.

The comparison apples to oranges.

 

[MiloTalon13]

All of the NBA stuff seems like a complete red herring to me. Duke excels at putting players in the league because they excel at recruiting NBA talent. Whatever coaching impact there was.. well there's a new coach now, so who knows? Dylan is not going to have any issues getting to the NBA from Rutgers.

That's reasoned and rational. I'm not sure how many recruits' final decisions are.

 

[S_Janowski]

lol ok. you might wanna look into the difference in $$$ from even the #10 overall pick and #30.

No shit there’s a difference.

You’re assuming if he committed to Duke he would be #10 and Rutgers he would be #30….which is a stupid assumption.

 

[biazza38]

haha dude you guys are going absolutely insane on me here because im literally just saying that duke puts more guys into the nba, their system and surrounding cast is more friendly for nba talent and that if dylan wants to be a 1 and done it's extremely understandable and probably the right move to go to DUKE. haha. You guys are insanE

Your point of “Duke” sending more guys to the NBA is completely invalid. No duh Duke’s gonna send more guys to the NBA with coach K grabbing guys like Zion, Kyrie, Tatum, and Bachero. They’re all projected lottery picks to begin with.
I responded to a post where you were talking about Pikes system, so clearly sending more guys to the pros is not what you’re “just saying.” You’re trying to make a point that Dylan’s career would be hampered by going to Rutgers. So just say it dude.
Why is it so crazy to think Dylan would rather go to a team coached by someone with a ton of experience instead of a team being coached by someone who is currently in his first year. What the heck is Jon Schemer’s track record

Btw how’s that top recruiting class doing at Duke so far this year? They got 3 of the top 5 players in the country and as of now 2 of those top 3 recruits at Duke are averaging under 7 points a game. I don’t want hear about Pike’s system

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

No shit there’s a difference.

You’re assuming if he committed to Duke he would be #10 and Rutgers he would be #30….which is a stupid assumption.

Youre assuming no matter where he goes his draft status and position wont change… which is a stupid assumption.

 

[cm_13]

Ah ok I’m not sure how that is determined or who he is considering a bust? I’m having a hard time thinking of any busts from Duke in the last 15 years and am able to think of quite a few guys who got drafted end of first round that played nearly 10 years and undrafted guys who got multiple nba contracts.

I’m guessing he’s a Philly guy and thinking Okafor who was taken in one of the worst drafts this century where Booker was taken 10 picks later but that was it.

Jhalil Okafor is the one that jumps out at me.

 

[S_Janowski]

Youre assuming no matter where he goes his draft status and position wont change… which is a stupid assumption.

I said *materially* wouldn’t change.

Dylan isn’t gonna get drafted #10 if he chooses Duke and #30 if he chooses Rutgers…which is one of the few ridiculous points you’re trying to make in this thread.

Your basketball takes can be pretty bad dude haha.

 

[fluoxetine]

which is a stupid assumption.

Well, not really

 

[biazza38]

I said *materially* wouldn’t change.

Dylan isn’t gonna get drafted #10 if he chooses Duke and #30 if he chooses Rutgers…which is one of the few ridiculous points you’re trying to make in this thread.

Your basketball takes can be pretty bad dude haha.

His basketball takes are absurd.
Apparently we’re the crazy ones because we think Pike can beat out Scheyer for a recruit

 

[Scangg]

Hear me out, maybe just maybe the system is a product of the players we have.
Here’s a crazy idea, Pike can change his system with someone like Dylan. You’re so anti Pike it’s annoying. Your football contributions have been great, but you’re constantly wrong on basketball and continue to just bash your head into the wall.
5 star guys don’t always commit to Duke and Kansas and UNC.

I think Pike wants to get out and run more which is player friendly. Paul isn't a speedy point though. Davis is going to want to fly. Simpson too. Gavin looks to be dangerous in transition both spotting up for a 3 or using his length to attack the rim

 

[Scangg]

haha dude you guys are going absolutely insane on me here because im literally just saying that duke puts more guys into the nba, their system and surrounding cast is more friendly for nba talent and that if dylan wants to be a 1 and done it's extremely understandable and probably the right move to go to DUKE. haha. You guys are insane

That's not what people are arguing against lol

It's the insane comparison between Rutgers football and basketball as if they are even remotely equal destinations that people are saying is a horrible analogy

 

[Scangg]

Youre assuming no matter where he goes his draft status and position wont change… which is a stupid assumption.

It's possible that Dylan would get drafted higher if he went to Rutgers over Duke.

Going to Duke doesn't guarantee him a higher draft pick

What if Scheyer stinks? What if he plays second or third fiddle to other players?

 

[fluoxetine]

It's the insane comparison between Rutgers football and basketball as if they are even remotely equal destinations that people are saying is a horrible analogy

It's also a stupid comparison on the other side of it. Duke is a powerhouse program... whose legendary coach just left and now has an unproven first year coach. I'm not saying it's a bad place or that they WILL fall off; just that it's not a sure thing the way it was with coach K.

An Ohio State football team, if Ryan Day retires tomorrow and they promote their OC to head coach, is still probably going to be very good. But there would be a lot more uncertainty than there is today.

Also the top basketball programs are not nearly as dominant as the top football programs. Even Fred Hill coached Rutgers beat some top 10 teams. Current Rutgers football has a 0% chance of beating Ohio State.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

Why would a Rutgers fan publicly post on our board that our highest profile recruit would be better off committing to someone else?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I know I am in the minority here….I could care less if he comes here or not.

Do we know Day 1 if a kid who has NBA aspirations in 1 or 2 years is going to buy in to what the program asks of?

I love this team and how they buy in both ends.

Maybe Dylan fits, but maybe he doesn’t.

Right now computers have us as a Top 20 team. It is because of the system way more than the players.

 

[Zak57]

I know I am in the minority here….I could care less if he comes here or not.

Do we know Day 1 if a kid who has NBA aspirations in 1 or 2 years is going to buy in to what the program asks of?

I love this team and how they buy in both ends.

Maybe Dylan fits, but maybe he doesn’t.

Right now computers have us as a Top 20 team. It is because of the system way more than the players.

Yes since I have full faith in Pike to determine what players fit his program from 5 stars to 0 stars.

 

[SBP]

Rutgers bball is in better shape, as it should be in year 7 compared to football in year 3.

My comparison is a very very good one. Im sorry but 5*’s dont care about anything other than the nba. So with that in mind, ask yourself, duke or rutgers. This one isnt nearly as hard as youre trying to make it out to be. Much like a 5* qb just wants to go where theyll be best developed for the nfl. You guy where you think will best get you ready to make $$$ at the next level.

You think it matters what college he plays for for if he’s an NBA lock? You’re crazy or don’t know basketball. 😂 People will know who he is and what he can do. Rutgers ain’t Our Lady of the Poor.. Exposure is about the same… BTN! especially when he comes to Rutgers, they will PURPOSELY SCHEDULE primetime games because Rutgers will have the juice.

 

[Degaz-RU]

I know I am in the minority here….I could care less if he comes here or not.

Do we know Day 1 if a kid who has NBA aspirations in 1 or 2 years is going to buy in to what the program asks of?

I love this team and how they buy in both ends.

Maybe Dylan fits, but maybe he doesn’t.

Right now computers have us as a Top 20 team. It is because of the system way more than the players.

This is where your hyper-analysis of everything can get in the way of rational thinking.

Based on everything we know about Dylan Harper and Steve Pikiell, there is NO SCENARIO where taking Harper would be a negative. You take Harper every day of the week. He not only is a top player who makes the team better, but he also creates buzz and immediately helps in recruiting other good players.

I am confident that Pike can manage the situation. On a lesser scale, he has proven he can manage these types of situations, as he did last year by benching Jaden Jones after about 10 games, and as he did in previous years by not allowing Jacob Young to become an unruly presence.

 

[Scarlet83]

haha dude you guys are going absolutely insane on me here because im literally just saying that duke puts more guys into the nba, their system and surrounding cast is more friendly for nba talent and that if dylan wants to be a 1 and done it's extremely understandable and probably the right move to go to DUKE. haha. You guys are insane

Yup. You are absolutely right. Its all of us who are ones that are insane.

 

[LotusAggressor]

I want him here bad but how do you turn down duke? Theyre history of getting guys to the nba is insane. Especially if your goal is one and done. They have more #1 overall picks than we have total draft picks this century

If that's the goal, Kentucky is the better pick.