There’s never been anyone like him. They’ll never be anyone better than him at Rutgers. He will be drafted higher than anyone else has been. Wish we could have been more successful, but it wasn’t meant to be. Thank you, Dylan, for choosing Rutgers.
Dylan is the G.O.A.T. At Rutgers
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
Al - neither one of us were around for Bob Lloyd or Phil Sellers. Douby wasn't as good as a Freshman, but he put up similar numbers later in his career.
Will Dylan end up being the best NBA player to wear a Rutgers uniform? For him or Ace, that is a distinct possibility. But if you want to judge the greatest season in a Rutgers uniform, I don't think it's Dylan. And of course for overall body of work in an RU uniform, you can't even put him ahead of his brother.
Will Dylan end up being the best NBA player to wear a Rutgers uniform? For him or Ace, that is a distinct possibility. But if you want to judge the greatest season in a Rutgers uniform, I don't think it's Dylan. And of course for overall body of work in an RU uniform, you can't even put him ahead of his brother.
Though both Harper and Ace Bailey will be selected higher, James Bailey WAS selected 6th in the NBA draft ... and was considered the best Center in the country for 2 seasons, and though not a consensus, was a 1st Team All American, twice, maybe.
Phil Sellers was a 1st Team All American (again, not consensus, but in several surveys). His size and skills were not translatable to the NBA, but his college greatness was ... ridiculously high.
Harper is fantastic ... hut Phil Sellers was a ridiculously great college payer starting from the very 1st game he played as a freshman. James Bailey was not a star until the 2nd half of his Sophomore season - and then was the best Center in the country for the next 2 1/2 seasons. Lloyd played in an era where Freshman were not allowed to play on varsity - but was a ridiculous SCORER for 3 years.
I rank these RU players who came before Harper and Ace Bailey as:
1) Sellers
2) James Bailey
3) Bob Lloyd
I do not know how to slot Harper, or Ace Bailey, based on 1 season, a disappointing season, a season where they have either been inconsistent, injured, ill ... a season in which the team is currently just a .500 team. Sellers, James Bailey and Lloyd all took their teams to much better records, to post-season success (Lloyd to 3rd place in the NIT when the NIT meant something; Sellers to 1 or 2 NIT's, 2 NCAA's and a Final Four; Bailey to multiple post-seasons, including the NCAA).
I have seen both Sellers and James Bailey dominate as many individual games as has Harper this year. So ... I am not sure how to measure ... but frankly, hard to say Harper is RUTGERS' G.O.A.T.
Phil Sellers was a 1st Team All American (again, not consensus, but in several surveys). His size and skills were not translatable to the NBA, but his college greatness was ... ridiculously high.
Harper is fantastic ... hut Phil Sellers was a ridiculously great college payer starting from the very 1st game he played as a freshman. James Bailey was not a star until the 2nd half of his Sophomore season - and then was the best Center in the country for the next 2 1/2 seasons. Lloyd played in an era where Freshman were not allowed to play on varsity - but was a ridiculous SCORER for 3 years.
I rank these RU players who came before Harper and Ace Bailey as:
1) Sellers
2) James Bailey
3) Bob Lloyd
I do not know how to slot Harper, or Ace Bailey, based on 1 season, a disappointing season, a season where they have either been inconsistent, injured, ill ... a season in which the team is currently just a .500 team. Sellers, James Bailey and Lloyd all took their teams to much better records, to post-season success (Lloyd to 3rd place in the NIT when the NIT meant something; Sellers to 1 or 2 NIT's, 2 NCAA's and a Final Four; Bailey to multiple post-seasons, including the NCAA).
I have seen both Sellers and James Bailey dominate as many individual games as has Harper this year. So ... I am not sure how to measure ... but frankly, hard to say Harper is RUTGERS' G.O.A.T.
Harper and Bailey will score the most points by a freshmen surpassing Rosario.Sellers has to rank as the best based on All American status and success of the 1976 team.
He is not even the RU goat in his own family. Dylan is the better player, but Ron Jr was waaay more valuable to the program.
Just talking about the best pure talent to ever wear the uniform. Others achieved more because they had better surrounding talent.
Not sure what the point of this thread is.
If you are just a Rutgers fan that cares and knows little about recruiting rankings or nba draft prospects , you would figure Harper is talented but the team is awful .
@rutgersal will you get on Dylan’s case to donate to NIL?
If you are just a Rutgers fan that cares and knows little about recruiting rankings or nba draft prospects , you would figure Harper is talented but the team is awful .
@rutgersal will you get on Dylan’s case to donate to NIL?
I disagree with and reject both premises of that statement.
a) I am not convinced Harper (or Ace Bailey) have the best pure talent. Sellers was considered one of the top 5 or 10 high school players in the entire country - and played like it all 4 seasons.in college. He was as highly regarded in high school as was Harper and Ace Bailey - there just was not the publicity machinery then as now. And though Bailey was a very under-recruited player, by the time he was a Sophomore, or certainly a Junior, his pure talent was obvious to the entire college basketball world: He was a freak athlete at 6'9" - in an age where 6'9" players did not have the quickness and overall athleticism common now for that height. James Bailey was an anomaly with his athleticism at that height ... no one in college during his last 2 seasons combined his height with his athleticism.. There were players with greater athleticism - but they were all 6'5" or shorter (like Louisville's Darrell Griffiths), or guards. There were bigger players at PF and C - but none had James Bailey's hops or quickness. I think as a Junior James Bailey led the team in points, rebounds, blocked shots and steals. No other NCAA player offered that mix of both scoring, rebounding, and defense.
b) And when Sellers entered RU he did NOT have more talent around him. In his freshman year, the best scorer was Somogyi - basically Acuff, with less athletic ability. Gene Armstead was the center - a fine low- to mid-major center (was he more talented than Sommerville? Not really, though he was a Senior that season). Mike Dabney was a fellow freshman - not as "talented" or well-regarded as Ace Bailey. And there was literally nobody else ... Vinnie Roundtree as a JR? Kleinbaum? Palko? Snodgrass? And the next season, Eddie Jordan did enter - as a freshman ... but Armstead was gone and Roundtree was the starting center at 5'5", with Les Casson (a huge bust - only played 13 games), Palko and Scherer as reserve centers.
c) James Bailey had a LOAD of talent around him as a freshman - but he was only the 5th best player on that team (the Final Four team). By the time he was a Junior, here were his teammates: Hollis Copeland (a college star, true, and an NBA player for a couple of years, though only as a deep reserve), Abdel Anderson, ... and ... the guards were Rodney Duncan, Tom Brown and Hefele ... the reserve forwards were a freshman Kelvin Troy (who did little), Todd Milligan and Stan Nance. Nowhere near as talented as the current RU team.
Harper and Ace Bailey are great players, but they are scrimmaging with Rutgers for a season. Thus, they can never be all-time RU greats.
Juan Soto will never be in Monument Park, despite a great 24 season.
For me, James Bailey is the GOAT. He played for four years, and in his junior year, as Lion1983 pointed out, he was easily one of the most dominant players in the country and, for me, in RU history.
That junior year he had 116 explosive dunks, many of them alley-oops. The 1978 NIT game against Larry Bird's Indiana State team was one of the most exciting ever at the RAC, with Bailey scoring the winning basket.
End of the game photo:
Phil yes, Bailey sophomore or Junior year too. He was a lottery pick. Dabney too. That's who he remonds me of.
No one will ever compare to Sellers in my book. As someone said, his size didn’t translate in the NBA but there is no Rutgers player I’d rather have on a college team than Phil. He was skilled, had all the intangibles, and he’d rip your heart out. He is number one on our Mt. Rushmore.
So true.
I remember a game vs. USC where Phil fouled out three different guys who had tried defending him.
A shame we'll never know how he would have done with 3-pointers.
A true leader.
Dylan Harper is arguably the best player in college basketball this year. I doubt we’ll ever see anything like that again.
I like this better than calling him the GOAT. I didn't get a chance to see the late 70s teams so can comment there, but since I started following the team in the later 90s he is certainly the best I've seen. I think he's an NBA all-star eventually.
True GOAT talk I think you gotta give to the guy who got us to the final four on the heels of an undefeated season. That is real GOAT sh*t.
As to the ripping your heart out comment: True, dat ... There is no layer o=in RU history that displayed, game in and game out, a greater and fiercer will to win, each and every game, each and every possession. None.
As to the quote above: Yeah ... his 2 games against USC were incredible (in back to back seasons. But that 1st one is probably the one you are remembering: 43 points in a 1-2 point loss for RU on the road. The USC coach had one of my favorite all time opposing coach quotes, something like "I have no idea what I just saw, but I know I never want to see it again."
Of course, Louie Carnesecca's quote about James Bailey was a good one also. When St. Johns faced Louisville in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament in 1978 (I think Louisville may have been ranked #1, or top 10 for sure). Louisville's nickname that year was "The Doctors of Dunk" (that was Darrell Griffiths' team - were the McCrays on that team also?). The stats compiled that year showed Louisville with 75-80 dunks on the season - for the entire team ... That was a fair amount (something like 4 dunks per game, for the entire team). Carnesecca was asked if his team would be intimidated by Louisville's dunking. He laughed and said "Hell, we played against James Bailey - dunks don't scare us." Bailey had (as someone else posted in this thread) 116 dunks that season - by himself ... 116! Out of 312 total FGs.
As to Sellers and the 3-point shot: I do not think having the 3-point shot would have helped Sellers at all, directly - though it may have opened up the middle for him to slash and drive even more effectively. His effective outside range was about 18 feet - one reason why he couldn't make it in the NBA: He was just 6'4", if that, and HAD to play guard in the NBA - but lacked the shooting range. And yeah, Dantley was a star in the NBA as a 6'6" PF, without a deep outside shot. But he was a legitimate 6'6", and a legitimate 225-240 pounds - much stronger physically than Sellers - those 2" and 20-30 pounds extra were the difference between Dantley being a star and Sellers not able to make it at all in the NBA.
In 1967 two first team AA played in NJ: Bill Bradley and Bobby Lloyd.
Sellers also played Lehigh, Colgate, and not Michigan State and Alabama.
I never saw either play, but count me in with
#1 - Sellers
#2 - Bailey
Harper and Ace will probably have really good NBA careers, but come on. You can't be the GOAT for the college program if you don't even make the Big Dance!
#1 - Sellers
#2 - Bailey
Harper and Ace will probably have really good NBA careers, but come on. You can't be the GOAT for the college program if you don't even make the Big Dance!
True, but also dominated against a ranked USC team - in back to back seasons, on the road and at MSG ... and played many times vs St. Johns, Villanova, Syracuse (regularly ranked), et al ... Plus, during Sellers' career RU played only about 1/3 of its games at home - two seasons they had 7 consecutive road games, and a span of 9 of 10 or 9 of 11 games on the road or neutral. In the Final Four year, of 33 games, RU only played 9 home games.
That can be said about 95% of all threads right? Harper as a freshman is dominating at times especially when not injured Al could be right.
He is one of the best offensive players in college basketball this year. If he was one of the best overall players we wouldn't be at 14-14
Harper is easily the best player I’ve ever seen at Rutgers but the big difference with him is not only does he penetrate, he finishes, and makes everyone around him, better. He’s on another level, compared to everyone else. I think he has what it takes to be the next elite NBA player.
Sellers did this, was a dominant rebounder, and punished you physically.
I love Dylan. I honor Phil.
Phil is #1...second place is not that close. As far as delivering on his athletic potential and being the cornerstone of an overall change in the athletics culture at a school that was basically a poor man's Princeton at the time, Sellers was aces across the boards (no pun intended). In his four years, I never felt we were out manned in any game where he played. The changes begun through his four years at RU kept us afloat and just relevant enough in college sports until, through the focus of very, very few other later individuals, the B1G threw us a lifeline many years later. Just MHO. If Sellers doesn't change his commitment from ND to RU in 1972, few of the many changes that happened over the next few years at RU would have occurred, with or without the "bigger time" sports aspirations expressed by President Bloustein. For those that feel Sellers couldn't shoot well or ball handle...well, we'll never know. Tom Young was a good coach and way too smart to have Phil wandering too far from the boards. This 6-4 guy turned out to be the school's career rebounding leader! Go RU! RIP Phil...thanks for a million great memories!
Having seen all the greats and being A classmate of Bobby Lloyd,
It's easy to forget how great Dabney was alongside him. Pippen to MJ.
We kept Phil in hiding for a good part of the summer before he entered RU. Notre Dame had everyone they could muster except the Pope looking for the kid from Brooklyn. Want to know where he was? Pretty simple, he was at the Jersey Shore at the home of one of our boosters who was tight with Tom. Know the name but he isn’t alive any more so it doesn’t matter. They took long walks on the beach and grilled out a lot for dinner. Not sure if there was a porch swing as I never asked. From what I was led to believe this started a long friendship with our alum being an asset to Phil whenever he needed help or just to catch up.
Love Dylan. He and Ace are probably the most talented players to ever grace the banks. And they seem like great kids too.
But for GOAT status, I think there are few more ahead of them in terms of impact. Sellers, Geo, Ron, Caleb, etc. Wasn’t alive to appreciate the magic of those 70s and early 80s teams.
To me, it’s the difference between Ray Rice and Brian Leonard.
All respect to Phil...who for me will always be THE MAN...but his teams were put together pretty well, except they were a little small upfront. And they played an exciting full-court press and run-at-every-opportunity game that was very entertaining.
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