Fair enough. Though Phil will have accomplished more at Rutgers, I think Dylan will develop into one of the NBAs All Time Greats. Most of his development will happen in the show. This year, he was just getting his feet wet, with injuries and illness unfortunately holding him back.
Dylan is the G.O.A.T. At Rutgers
- Thread starter rutgersal
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Tom Young was an indifferent recruiter - his ultimate downfall at RU (he was a very good evaluator of talent, especially strong with his ability to envision what a player might look like 2-3 years down the road - but kind of lazy recruiting).
BUT ... Young was a MASTER at developing a team around ONE star player, finding and developing that chosen player into a star, and finding and developing the pieces of the roster around that player. That does not mean he did not more than one talented player on his teams at a time, just that his FOCUS was on finding, choosing, then developing ONE player to be the primary focus of the team, and building the team around that player.
Look at Young's career:
At American, in his 2nd season at that school, after getting Kermit Washington to come to American (presumably as a freshman - frosh were not allowed to play at that time, not until Sellers' 1st season at RU). As a sophomore, Young's 2nd season as head coach, Washington became a star ... and was so for that season and the 2 following. In Washington's SR year, Young had brought in an additional player who actually led the team in scoring as a SO - to be the next star ... but Young left to come to RU.
At RU, Young had Sellers - the clearly dominant star of the team - be the center of the team for the next 3 years - he inherited Sellers after Sellers starred for RU as FR. Yes, there were other talented players: Debney, then adding Eddie Jordan, then Copeland. But Sellers was the centerpiece around which everything revolved.
THEN ... he developed James Bailey to be the start around which the team was centered for the next 3 seasons. Sure, Jordan was the top scorer, by a nose, his SR year when Bailey was the #2 scorer, and Copeland was on that team as well, as a JR. But if you remember watching that team, Bailey was the centerpiece, especially in the 2nd half of the year. And was so by a wide margin Bailey's JR and SR years.
Young then struggled for the next 2 seasons, while developing a star around which to center the team who could actually carry the team (14-14 and 16-14). Kelvin Troy was the player who starred those 2 seasons, his JR and SR years, but either he was not good enough to carry the team, and/or his supporting cast was not good enough, so the team was just average. In Troy's JR year (when RU was 14-14), Young brought in 2 high potential frosh: Hinson and Black, plus Kenny Payne ... and in Troy's SR season a SO transfer shooter in Tilman. But Black and especially Hinson needed time to develop.
Then ... Hinson blossomed, under Young tutelage. Helped by bringing in Ellerbee and Remley as FR (and Battle, but he was a bit performer for 2 years), and RU went 20-10 then 23-8 and to the NCAA.
Then in his last 2 seasons, Young developed and centered the team on John Battle - who starred his JR and SR years - and became a solid NBA player afterwards. But Battle and Ellerbee were not enough to carry RU to more than .500 records for 2 seasons.
But Young's indifferent recruiting, combined with his frustration in Gruninger refusing to accept the invite from the Big East in 1978, followed by the Eastern All Sports conference being blown up by the Big East inviting Pitt into the Big East (a truly awful basketball program at the time, only brought into the Big East to blow up the Eastern Football and All Sports conference (Penn St had finally gotten on board) that would have yanked 2 flagship programs from the Big East, Boston College, and especially Syracuse) - which directly led to Young losing out on Charles Smith who chose Pitt in the Big East, with the Big East TV contract, instead of RU, when Young thought he had Smith locked up ... led to Young leaving RU for ODU - certainly NOT a step up. Maybe Young was pushed out after a 2 mediocre years ... I seem to remember it may have been mutual on both sides, both sides agreeing to part ways.
Young then inherited Kenny Gattison, for his 1st year at ODU - an NBA player. Then brought in Chris Gatling, and developed him into a 4-year star around which he built the team - and an NBA player. Then ... well Young got into trouble at ODU - I think there was some scandal or bad behavior by Young, cannot remember the details.
In fact, in Tom Young's 22 seasons as head coach, he has had a future NBA player leading his team (at least 1) in 20 of 22 seasons: Just his 1st season as a head coach at American, and the 1979-80 season did Young lack a starting player who averaged 10+ PPG and would be a future NBA player - that single RU team did have Hinson starting as a FR, but he was raw, though average 9+ ppg - was just the 4th best player on that team).
All time NBA great ? This coming from the buffoon who predicted Wimsatt for the Heisman.
Well ... for one, Young probably would have stayed (Smith's freshman season was the season after Young left, the season after Battle graduated and was drafted, the 1985-86 season).
And .. Young would have had his potential star to build around,a true PF, with a supporting cast of a JR Eric Riggins at WF, JR Lloyd Moore at Center, a JR Brown as starting PG, a JR Darrin Campbell at 2G - until Dadika got back from I think an injury, then maybe a FR Dadika. The JR Zucker would have been pushed to the bench, so your reserves would have been Zucker, a FR Duckett, a FR Ward and a SO Mark Peterson in the frontcourt, and the 3 FR Dadika, Alston and Myles Dixon as reserve guards ... though 1 of the FR would not have been on the team because their scholarship would have been taken by Smith - probably Duckett or Ward.
FYI, Moore was much better as a SO under Young than he was under Littlepage as a JR - yeah, the ppg were the same, but Moore was more efficient and a much better defender in his 1 year with Young ... Littlepage hated Moore, and you could tell how he treated him, basically ran him off.
And MOST IMPORTANTLY, no Littlepage, a disaster. One of my best friends was a U of Penn alumhus - he called me up the day Littlepage was hired and profusely thanked me for RU taking him off their hands. Littlepage was actually a very good Assistant and then head Athletic Director for UVA - but despite being the one credited with recruiting Ralph Sampson to UVA was just an awful coach ... awful. Littlepage took a very strong Ivy program (4 NCAA tournaments in a span of the 5 years preceding Littlepage taking the Penn job and 10 of the prior 13 years in the NCAA - 13 years during which Penn's WORST Ivy record was 11-3 ... and that bad just TWICE in those 13 years: a 133-19 record in Ivy League play ... and 9 times they won 20 or more games overall ... and within 2 years reduced Penn to a losing record team (was 17-9 his 1st year, then 10-16 and 13-14). Littlepage inherited a Senior-laden team, returning its top 5 scorers and 7 of its top 8 scorers (odd note: they graduated Fran McCaffrey the year before Littlepage came aboard - but he was just a bit player), a team that had been 17-10 and 12-2 in-conference and an NCAA appearance, and managed to sort of hold the ground, coaching that team to a record of 17019 and 11-3 - but missed the NCAA ... then was awful the next 2 years.
And then he shredded what was a mediocre program, turning it into a laughingstock. Littlepage's 1st true recruiting class, the FR of his 2nd season were ... drum roll ... Steve Watson, Lee Perry and Tom Everson ... agh!
To this day I have no idea WHY on earth they hired Littlepage: It made no sense whatsoever. Ugh.
That's going to be the most fun thing about this, seeing which one goes first. I still think Ace will off of potential. Dylan more ready immediate, but guys are drafted off potential.
Nah. Both of them have very high ceilings. Roster construction will dictate who goes first between the two of them.
Flagg can do it all already. He’ll upgrade any position 1-4 on the court and is a no brainer for any team.
Our guys aren’t ever going to be as complete. Bailey and Harper will be drafted based on greater positional need. For the bottom dweller teams picking early, it’s a long term building process.
Some analysts think so, but I think Dylan is the better player.
I wasn't including Flagg in my thought, he's hands down #1. I'm saying Bailey before Harper.
Dylan is probably the best modern (I was not around in the 60s-70s lol) Rutgers player in some sense, but you don't go down as the GOAT by playing one season where you are hurt for a critical stretch of it and don't even make the tournament.
For Dylan to be the (modern) Rutgers GOAT this team better finish with a blitz that somehow takes us to at least the R64.
For Dylan to be the (modern) Rutgers GOAT this team better finish with a blitz that somehow takes us to at least the R64.
Yea I was using him as an example of fit. He’s more versatile. Whatever the need 1-4, he can do it.
My point was, the team picking 2 will choose whoever addresses its biggest need, and that may not be Bailey.
Agree. Some say Bo is the most talented RB ever but not the GOAT due to the short career.
Thats's a different argument. Has Flagg meant all that much to Duke in the grand scheme ? If there's no recruiting bump from DH coming here, then sure RHJ was more valuable. But not the better player.
Like WAR in baseball, longevity matters to value. WAR doesn't measure who the better talent is.
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