Edelson: New Rutgers president must heal divide between athletics, academics

[Knight Shift]

Wondering WTF he is talking about. Is Rutgers divided? And "heal the riff?" What a dumbass.

https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...sions-between-athletics-academics/4522527002/

So Jonathan Holloway, a former Stanford linebacker, will be announced on Tuesday as the new Rutgers president.
But does he have any experience as a referee?
Because while Holloway, the school’s first black president, has a background that makes it seem like he’ll be better for athletics than his predecessor, Dr. Robert Barchi, his ability to heal the riff between the academic and athletics sides of campus, which has ripped the school in half, will be his greatest challenge.

 

[e5fdny]

Put “Rutgers” somewhere in the headline =

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Wait, I am confused about this. Is this guy saying the new President should shut down our jazz programs ? Has there been a huge outcry against jazz? Protests on College Avenue? Letters to The Targum ? Is there a Rutgers 1000 group that is anti-jazz? Are they against all jazz? Or just the newer stuff like Dave Koz, The Yellowjackets,etc.?

 

[retired711]

This article assumes that the faculty has power at Rutgers. I served nine years in the University Senate (which isn't even all-faculty) and I can assure you that it doesn't have the power or prestige to do anything. All it can do is to ask nasty questions of the President that he or she can brush aside. The key question is what the new President thinks about athletics, not what the faculty thinks.

 

[Knight Shift]

This article assumes that the faculty has power at Rutgers. I served nine years in the University Senate (which isn't even all-faculty) and I can assure you that it doesn't have the power or prestige to do anything. All it can do is to ask nasty questions of the President that he or she can brush aside. The key question is what the new President thinks about athletics, not what the faculty thinks.

Do you think it is different at other Universities?
Have related before that at your alma mater, Cal, there are faculty members who rail against athletics and the money wasted on athletics. They exist at every University. Academics and athletics can coexist, and when both do well, help the University thrive more than when just one is doing well. Stanford, Michigan and Duke are excellent examples.

 

[bigmatt718]

Edelson is a jackass. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[retired711]

Do you think it is different at other Universities?
Have related before that at your alma mater, Cal, there are faculty members who rail against athletics and the money wasted on athletics. They exist at every University. Academics and athletics can coexist, and when both do well, help the University thrive more than when just one is doing well. Stanford, Michigan and Duke are excellent examples.

Cal has a much stronger tradition of faculty self-governance than Rutgers, and faculty at Cal even think they have an obligation to pay attention to campus governance. But the faculty largely realizes that, even so, athletics is just too entrenched to remove even when the program is bleeding money.

I would like to believe that athletics and academics go together, but I often find it hard to persuade myself. Would you consider LSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Alabama to be the leading academic institutions in this country? Of course not.The leading schools are the Ivy League schools, at which athletics doesn't play much part.(When was the last time the Harvard-Yale game was nationally televised?)

Stanford, Michigan and Duke would not be much different academically if they didn't have leading athletic programs (although Stanford is pretty mediocre in "money" sports, and Duke really has only the basketball team, although the footbal team does show signs of lfe.)

Athletics is important, not because they help the school's academics, but because they create community at the campus (there's nothing like being with thousands of fellow fans rooting for a team), and so they bring people together. They are also helpful at a state university in building support among legislators and voters. That doesn't require a "leading" program, but it does require one that is at least competitive. We now have, apparently, such a program in basketball, and, under Schiano, we are going to have one in football sooner than the pessimists think.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

This article assumes that the faculty has power at Rutgers. I served nine years in the University Senate (which isn't even all-faculty) and I can assure you that it doesn't have the power or prestige to do anything. All it can do is to ask nasty questions of the President that he or she can brush aside. The key question is what the new President thinks about athletics, not what the faculty thinks.

100% this. Anyone who says any thing different doesn't understand how Rutgers works or the purpose of that group. So when people overreact to what they say, I can only roll my eyes.

 

[ashokan]

Sports and "academics" are both off the hook. There are athletes that don't belong in college, and there are academics and whole departments that dont belong there either. Indeed I think the money spent on sports does less damage than money spent on toxic waste issuing from subversive elements cloaked under "academic freedom."

 

[Doctor Worm]

Cal has a much stronger tradition of faculty self-governance than Rutgers, and faculty at Cal even think they have an obligation to pay attention to campus governance. But the faculty largely realizes that, even so, athletics is just too entrenched to remove even when the program is bleeding money.

I would like to believe that athletics and academics go together, but I often find it hard to persuade myself. Would you consider LSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Alabama to be the leading academic institutions in this country? Of course not.The leading schools are the Ivy League schools, at which athletics doesn't play much part.(When was the last time the Harvard-Yale game was nationally televised?)

Stanford, Michigan and Duke would not be much different academically if they didn't have leading athletic programs (although Stanford is pretty mediocre in "money" sports, and Duke really has only the basketball team, although the footbal team does show signs of lfe.)

Athletics is important, not because they help the school's academics, but because they create community at the campus (there's nothing like being with thousands of fellow fans rooting for a team), and so they bring people together. They are also helpful at a state university in building support among legislators and voters. That doesn't require a "leading" program, but it does require one that is at least competitive. We now have, apparently, such a program in basketball, and, under Schiano, we are going to have one in football sooner than the pessimists think.

Excellent post. One nitpick - the last time the Harvard-Yale game was nationally televised was way back in 2019. ESPNU.

 

[RUScrew85]

Rutgers "academics" will always bitch about athletics. Mostly because they're pissed they aren't "teaching" in the ivy league.

 

[RUich]

I think the vast majority of Americans identify with institutions that are perceived as "winners" save the Ivy's .
As a teacher in NJ, I cannot remember any students wearing Rutgers gear!
But, tons of PSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc. Hell, you couldn't even find Rutgers stuff in the stores.
This indoctrination of what schools "matter" , IMO, leads to why many of them leave the state for perceived "greener pastures".

Thus, if you have a school playing winning sports, on the sports pages and in social media, you are a great school. Think of it as great advertising.

 

[rubaseball78]

Cal has a much stronger tradition of faculty self-governance than Rutgers, and faculty at Cal even think they have an obligation to pay attention to campus governance. But the faculty largely realizes that, even so, athletics is just too entrenched to remove even when the program is bleeding money.

I would like to believe that athletics and academics go together, but I often find it hard to persuade myself. Would you consider LSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Alabama to be the leading academic institutions in this country? Of course not.The leading schools are the Ivy League schools, at which athletics doesn't play much part.(When was the last time the Harvard-Yale game was nationally televised?)

Stanford, Michigan and Duke would not be much different academically if they didn't have leading athletic programs (although Stanford is pretty mediocre in "money" sports, and Duke really has only the basketball team, although the footbal team does show signs of lfe.)

Athletics is important, not because they help the school's academics, but because they create community at the campus (there's nothing like being with thousands of fellow fans rooting for a team), and so they bring people together. They are also helpful at a state university in building support among legislators and voters. That doesn't require a "leading" program, but it does require one that is at least competitive. We now have, apparently, such a program in basketball, and, under Schiano, we are going to have one in football sooner than the pessimists think.

The olympic teams are always littered with Stanford athletes. For comparison, Stanford athletes have 270 medals; RU 13. Sports has a place at Stanford.

 

[BigWill]

Cal has a much stronger tradition of faculty self-governance than Rutgers, and faculty at Cal even think they have an obligation to pay attention to campus governance. But the faculty largely realizes that, even so, athletics is just too entrenched to remove even when the program is bleeding money.

I would like to believe that athletics and academics go together, but I often find it hard to persuade myself. Would you consider LSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Alabama to be the leading academic institutions in this country? Of course not.The leading schools are the Ivy League schools, at which athletics doesn't play much part.(When was the last time the Harvard-Yale game was nationally televised?)

Stanford, Michigan and Duke would not be much different academically if they didn't have leading athletic programs (although Stanford is pretty mediocre in "money" sports, and Duke really has only the basketball team, although the footbal team does show signs of lfe.)

Athletics is important, not because they help the school's academics, but because they create community at the campus (there's nothing like being with thousands of fellow fans rooting for a team), and so they bring people together. They are also helpful at a state university in building support among legislators and voters. That doesn't require a "leading" program, but it does require one that is at least competitive. We now have, apparently, such a program in basketball, and, under Schiano, we are going to have one in football sooner than the pessimists think.

Yet Harvard has the MOST Intercollegiate sports teams of any University in the USA. YES, all the Ivies recruit athletes. It is a fact.
Yes, they give those athletes money to help them attend. They just don't call it an "athletic" scholarship. Yes, they will fight among themselves for those "student-athletes" than meet admission minimums/standards with those scholarships. Yes, they do refuse admission to SAT perfect scores that aren't athletes.

I have helped many kids and their parents get kids into Ivies. One was deciding between 2 of them. First one was offering everything but $ 5K, told Dad to call the other, they offered everything but $ 4K, eventually one offered everything but $ 2,500 which is the maximum allowed in Ivy. So he got an Ivy League education for $ 10K. He got a signing bonus at his financial firm at graduation of $ 10,000. So he went to Ivy League for free.

My Dad was given a full ride at Duke, merely because he had dropped off his roommate there and the HC found out that Dad had played at Manlius as they arrived on campus.

My admission to Princeton many decades ago, which I declined, was based on my playing 3 sports at Manlius. Same at West Point, athletes get preferential treatment in admissions, it's a fact, live with it and enjoy rooting at home games.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

I think the vast majority of Americans identify with institutions that are perceived as "winners" save the Ivy's .
As a teacher in NJ, I cannot remember any students wearing Rutgers gear!
But, tons of PSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc. Hell, you couldn't even find Rutgers stuff in the stores.
This indoctrination of what schools "matter" , IMO, leads to why many of them leave the state for perceived "greener pastures".

Thus, if you have a school playing winning sports, on the sports pages and in social media, you are a great school. Think of it as great advertising.

Lots of students in New Jersey high schools and younger were wearing Rutgers gear between 2006 and Floods second or third year. Stores couldn’t get enough of it in. Then it became obvious Flood was burning the house to the ground and Ash came in with a gas tanker. Despite the losing football, there has never been this much interest from NJ kids in attending THEIR State University.

 

[beaced]

Wondering WTF he is talking about. Is Rutgers divided? And "heal the riff?" What a dumbass.

https://www.app.com/story/sports/co...sions-between-athletics-academics/4522527002/

So Jonathan Holloway, a former Stanford linebacker, will be announced on Tuesday as the new Rutgers president.
But does he have any experience as a referee?
Because while Holloway, the school’s first black president, has a background that makes it seem like he’ll be better for athletics than his predecessor, Dr. Robert Barchi, his ability to heal the riff between the academic and athletics sides of campus, which has ripped the school in half, will be his greatest challenge.

NO he doesn't.What he has to do is support the FB program B1G time. The academes will just have to accept this or they are free to do the other thing.

 

[beaced]

Yet Harvard has the MOST Intercollegiate sports teams of any University in the USA. YES, all the Ivies recruit athletes. It is a fact.
Yes, they give those athletes money to help them attend. They just don't call it an "athletic" scholarship. Yes, they will fight among themselves for those "student-athletes" than meet admission minimums/standards with those scholarships. Yes, they do refuse admission to SAT perfect scores that aren't athletes.

I have helped many kids and their parents get kids into Ivies. One was deciding between 2 of them. First one was offering everything but $ 5K, told Dad to call the other, they offered everything but $ 4K, eventually one offered everything but $ 2,500 which is the maximum allowed in Ivy. So he got an Ivy League education for $ 10K. He got a signing bonus at his financial firm at graduation of $ 10,000. So he went to Ivy League for free.

My Dad was given a full ride at Duke, merely because he had dropped off his roommate there and the HC found out that Dad had played at Manlius as they arrived on campus.

My admission to Princeton many decades ago, which I declined, was based on my playing 3 sports at Manlius. Same at West Point, athletes get preferential treatment in admissions, it's a fact, live with it and enjoy rooting at home games.

Big Will you are a fount of interesting stories.When I lived in Edison I used to work out with a number of local Police guys and a number of State Troopers.A ll great people. Wish that I had known you back then. The absolute BEST AND Happiest of a New YEAR TO YOU AND YOURS. Burt.

 

[BigWill]

I'm so old now that all my friends and relatives have heard them all....so I have to pontificate here ...

Small favors can be big things. When I am in a shop/diner/burger place and I see a Cop in line, I walk up and pay for his meal. When I am flying and I can upgrade to first class and I see someone in uniform, I switch seats.

At the wrestling tourney I was at Sunday a boy was wrestling a girl. He got her into some kind of hold (don't ask me, I don't have a clue.) and she yelled out as she was pinned. She went off crying. The boy went off also crying, because he had hurt the girl. His Coach was telling him to forget it, she was wrestling. He was still crying. I went over and told the Coach and kid, my 3 mantras of life/parenting/coaching that I was taught by my Dad, taught to me 3 Sons and teach to my 7 Grandsons ; Slow to anger, fierce in a fight and gentle towards Women. They both looked at me and both said "I got it." I pointed out where the girl was sitting, still with tears in her eyes. The young boy went over and gave her a full hug and apologized. The Coach thanked me. IMO, those 2 learned more from the hug than the victory.

 

[beaced]

I'm so old now that all my friends and relatives have heard them all....so I have to pontificate here ...

Small favors can be big things. When I am in a shop/diner/burger place and I see a Cop in line, I walk up and pay for his meal. When I am flying and I can upgrade to first class and I see someone in uniform, I switch seats.

At the wrestling tourney I was at Sunday a boy was wrestling a girl. He got her into some kind of hold (don't ask me, I don't have a clue.) and she yelled out as she was pinned. She went off crying. The boy went off also crying, because he had hurt the girl. His Coach was telling him to forget it, she was wrestling. He was still crying. I went over and told the Coach and kid, my 3 mantras of life/parenting/coaching that I was taught by my Dad, taught to me 3 Sons and teach to my 7 Grandsons ; Slow to anger, fierce in a fight and gentle towards Women. The both looked at me and both said "I got it." I pointed out where the girl was sitting, still with tears in her eyes. They young boy went over and gave her a full hug and apologized. The Coach thanked me. IMO, those 2 learned more from the hug than the victory.

I take from this that she was on the wrestling team.If so she should have been aware of the consequences.Many years ago one of my daughter,age 10 or so was taking dance lessons next door to a Karate DOJO.She was fascinated by the GI and activities and asked us if she could join.after a few weeks of lessons she said that she wanted to quit. Reason being"I didn't know that we would have to hit each other" She went back to dancing.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

I'm so old now that all my friends and relatives have heard them all....so I have to pontificate here ...

Small favors can be big things. When I am in a shop/diner/burger place and I see a Cop in line, I walk up and pay for his meal. When I am flying and I can upgrade to first class and I see someone in uniform, I switch seats.

At the wrestling tourney I was at Sunday a boy was wrestling a girl. He got her into some kind of hold (don't ask me, I don't have a clue.) and she yelled out as she was pinned. She went off crying. The boy went off also crying, because he had hurt the girl. His Coach was telling him to forget it, she was wrestling. He was still crying. I went over and told the Coach and kid, my 3 mantras of life/parenting/coaching that I was taught by my Dad, taught to me 3 Sons and teach to my 7 Grandsons ; Slow to anger, fierce in a fight and gentle towards Women. The both looked at me and both said "I got it." I pointed out where the girl was sitting, still with tears in her eyes. They young boy went over and gave her a full hug and apologized. The Coach thanked me. IMO, those 2 learned more from the hug than the victory.

You are good people.

 

[srru86]

Rutgers "academics" will always bitch about athletics. Mostly because they're pissed they aren't "teaching" in the ivy league.

The RU faculty is one of the few at this level that are represented by a union. You have to chalk much of the bellyaching to collective bargaining posturing. A few rabble rousers might believe it sincerely, but it's all part of the show of justifying the dues deducted from their colleagues paychecks to support the union.

 

[srru86]

And Edelson is a tool.
Out of his depth past Shore Conference scholastic sports, and I'm not sure he is up to date on that anymore.

 

[ruready07]

Sporting events are a type of church. And since people don’t really go to regular church anymore, sporting events are one of the only places where we gather as a community at all...

If you want people to care about their school community, then you have to provide a successful athletics environment where everyone comes together. It really has nothing to do with money and budgets.

 

[Knight Shift]

And Edelson is a tool.
Out of his depth past Shore Conference scholastic sports, and I'm not sure he is up to date on that anymore.

He is no Tony Graham.

 

[ru66]

no one really knows if the new president will be good or bad for RU athletics--wait and see and hope

 

[rubaseball78]

no one really knows if the new president will be good or bad for RU athletics--wait and see and hope

Coming from Stanford and Northwestern, plus being an ex-college athlete, he will know how college athletics fit into a university. Do I expect him to make sports the #1 priority, of course not. For too long we have had president's that didn't recognize how successful sports programs can be leveraged to get your brand name out there.

 

[RUSK97]

There’s absolutely nothing Holloway can do to appease the faculty. They will always be against athletics. But if what camdenprof and others suggest here is true, then he doesn’t have to worry about it. If the teams, particularly the revenue sports do well, the student body and alumni will rally behind them and the voices of the dissenting faculty will just be background noise amplified only by the local press.

 

[BigWill]

Without NAVY football playing ND during WW 2 there would be no ND.

Without Doug Flutie, there would be no BC.

The number of athletes in any BIG size school enrollment is such a small number it isn't measure able for a statistical analysis.

NB; I was in a meeting with GS and Mul when he told GS that the teams GPA had to be improved (or else). Next semester the overall GPA for the team was up almost a full point ! Easy as pie, GA's checked attendance, cuts were outlawed at your peril and Assistants checked their guys. All of a sudden RU and GS was graduating football players at the top levels in the country.

 

[Knight Shift]

There’s absolutely nothing Holloway can do to appease the faculty. They will always be against athletics. But if what camdenprof and others suggest here is true, then he doesn’t have to worry about it. If the teams, particularly the revenue sports do well, the student body and alumni will rally behind them and the voices of the dissenting faculty will just be background noise amplified only by the local press.

To speak of the "faculty" as a collective group is like lumping any other group of people together. There are plenty of faculty that support football. One of the more prominent faculty supporters of Rutgers Athletics was Dr. Bauer of the Department of Ceramic Engineering. There are others. They are just not as vocal as the anti-athletics crowd, which is fairly typical.

 

[srru86]

He is no Tony Graham.

You can say that again.

After many years of futility the Wall High football team was finally able to compete against Manasqaun. This was before the game became a Thanksgiving regular. Like around 1982?

Anyway - Tony wrote an article that some of the guys on the Crimson Knight squad thought suggested he didn't think they could hang with Big Blue. After winning they plopped a big Bluefish in front of him in the press box suggesting that he might appreciate it as a fan of those guys.

Who would think of bringing a dead fish to a ball game? Whether due lack of spite, preparedness or creativity, not me.

I don't think they make local sports guys like Graham anymore?

 

[srru86]

There’s absolutely nothing Holloway can do to appease the faculty.

Agreed some are irredeemable on this topic. As KnightShift points out, and CamdenLawProf has in the past, it's a small and irrelevant, if sometimes noisy, subset of the group.

We have some great examples like the aforementioned Bauer who was as great a fan as any I've meet. Another notable is Lee Schneider. There are others.

I'd assume most are somewhere between pretty disengaged and mildly interested periodically on the topic. And that's OK.

 

[BigWill]

Don't get me started of Wall vs Manasquan. My first Son played for Wall right after Amabile quit ! my last 2 for Manasquan under Kubu.

People used to drop off blue fish for us.."Oh that's a nice big one, thanks."
The fish guy leaves, Mary Anne out the back door to bury it in the garden for fertilizer.

 

[BigWill]

You are good people.

Gets you to the front of the line....

 

[Knight Shift]

You can say that again.

After many years of futility the Wall High football team was finally able to compete against Manasqaun. This was before the game became a Thanksgiving regular. Like around 1982?

Anyway - Tony wrote an article that some of the guys on the Crimson Knight squad thought suggested he didn't think they could hang with Big Blue. After winning they plopped a big Bluefish in front of him in the press box suggesting that he might appreciate it as a fan of those guys.

Who would think of bringing a dead fish to a ball game? Whether due lack of spite, preparedness or creativity, not me.

I don't think they make local sports guys like Graham anymore?

Don't get me started of Wall vs Manasquan. My first Son played for Wall right after Amabile quit ! my last 2 for Manasquan under Kubu.

People used to drop off blue fish for us.."Oh that's a nice big one, thanks."
The fish guy leaves, Mary Anne out the back door to bury it in the garden for fertilizer.

That rivalry used to be very heated. Not sure if it is still heated. I hung out with a lot of Manasquan kids back in HS in the 1980's. It may be the same year (1982) referred to as srru86--there used to be bumper stickers for MHS Boosters--THE BIG BLUE IS AFTER YOU--someone had fun with one of those bumper stickers after the loss to Wall, and modified it underneath to say something like "You Blue it Womansasquan." Such things would not happen in today's society.

 

[beaced]

Coming from Stanford and Northwestern, plus being an ex-college athlete, he will know how college athletics fit into a university. Do I expect him to make sports the #1 priority, of course not. For too long we have had president's that didn't recognize how successful sports programs can be leveraged to get your brand name out there.

# 1 would work very well. From that position would flow the POSITIVE awareness of the school and its academics.Applications and enrollments always increase when the Major sports programs get POSITIVE PUBLICITY.

 

[Scarlet Beach]

Hopefully, the new president will actually care about the overall student experience. As someone who was a student during part of Barchi's term, I never got the impression that he particularly cared about the students in general, whether athletes or not.

 

[srru86]

My first Son played for Wall right after Amabile quit !

Talk about stuff you couldn't get away with anymore. I played for him at Wall. I was lousy enough that I rarely was the object of any sustained attention from him or his staff. Nothing the Army could throw at me (peace time training) was harder than his double session practices in August.

Years later I meet one of his assistants who had followed him to Neptune. He said "You Wall kids would put up with all kinds of nonsense because you didn't know any better. If we tried that at Neptune the kid would have dropped his helmet and walked off the field never to be seen again."

 

[NotInRHouse]

Put “Rutgers” somewhere in the headline =

I am waiting for the NJ.com expose about the parking ticket he received in 1983.

 

[e5fdny]

And Edelson is a tool.
Out of his depth past Shore Conference scholastic sports, and I'm not sure he is up to date on that anymore.

+1

And that’s you just being nice.

 

[e5fdny]

Agreed some are irredeemable on this topic. As KnightShift points out, and CamdenLawProf has in the past, it's a small and irrelevant, if sometimes noisy, subset of the group.

We have some great examples like the aforementioned Bauer who was as great a fan as any I've meet. Another notable is Lee Schneider. There are others.

I'd assume most are somewhere between pretty disengaged and mildly interested periodically on the topic. And that's OK.

And Greg realized that...Dr. Bauer was one of if not the first person he looked for after coming out of the locker/stadium at an away game.

And Dean Schneider as a former letterwinner one would hope would always be a friend of the Program.