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Face it, at best we’re a bubble team again

We weren't a bubble team though. We were safely and easily in.

While I was higher than pretty much anyone on both Yeboah and Caleb last season, I do think their absence this year gives Harper and Young the room to grow into more significant roles which may actually make the team better. They may not have been ready for such a significant role last season as Harper was still an underclassmen and Young was adapting to the team and his role while shaking off the rust of a redshirt season. This season they are ready to flourish and take more dominate roles as go to scoring options and their roles would be minimized if Yeboah and Caleb were playing.
Imo if youre not confidently in the tourney until the last weekend youre a bubble team. Heres a way to view it. If we lose to purdue in the last game would you bet a decent sum of money were in the tourney? What seeds do you consider bubble teams?
 
Imo if youre not confidently in the tourney until the last weekend youre a bubble team. Heres a way to view it. If we lose to purdue in the last game would you bet a decent sum of money were in the tourney? What seeds do you consider bubble teams?
That's fair... we were bubbly but in the end we were a clear tournament team. The B1G is so tough it will probably come down to the last few games again this year for who the last couple teams are that make it and who misses the cut.
 
We weren't a bubble team though. We were safely and easily in.

While I was higher than pretty much anyone on both Yeboah and Caleb last season, I do think their absence this year gives Harper and Young the room to grow into more significant roles which may actually make the team better. They may not have been ready for such a significant role last season as Harper was still an underclassmen and Young was adapting to the team and his role while shaking off the rust of a redshirt season. This season they are ready to flourish and take more dominate roles as go to scoring options and their roles would be minimized if Yeboah and Caleb were playing.

To add.....bigger role for Paul as well.
 
Absolutely impossible to draw such a conclusion after 3 games and without Geo for essentially 2 of them. Also, Hofstra is a VERY likely tourney-bound team so despite not blowing them out when we had the chance up 18 - we started missing chippies, they started hitting (including 2 3's) - we pulled away again and got it done. Also 3 wins that we never in jeopardy let's not discount that fact.

Sure, you can "say" it in a thread on a meaningless college sports board, and I can say the opposite, but it would be ever bit as short on necessary data as yours is right now.
 
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I can't believe this thread was posted. We are 3-0 with all double digit wins despite our best player being injured and no, being on the bubble is not this team's ceiling considering all the exciting new recruits on the roster. Shame on the OP for injecting this type of negativity during a season most Rutgers basketball fans have been waiting for a very long time.
These were tune up games. The competition level was zero
 
People arent recognizing how big a loss yeboah was. 3 point shooting, rebounding, free throws, veteran presence. And although caleb isnt a player whos gonna put the team on his back he was always good for 15 mins a night where hed use his length, nail open 3’s, and knock down free throws.

The simple facts are

1) we dont run an offense and wont be able to just run vs more athletic teams
2) we cant bit free throws and this will lose us close games
3) its alot easier to play balls to the wall defense in front of 8500 peoples energy youre feeding off.

Bottom line. Lower your expectations. People are getting way ahead of themselves here. We dont have that much talent. Cliff isnt a 1-2 and done player like most of you thought for some odd reason. Our hope should be we sneak in the tourney but if we miss it, it shouldnt be that big of a disappointment, we’re just not THAT good. We’re a middle of the pack B1G team 7th-9th best, we’ll see if thats good enough.
Agree 100%.. we’re sloppy and lack shooters.
 
Talk about an early overreaction to nothing, Yeboah was a nice grad transfer role player pickup but once Mag, Reiber, and Palmquist adjust to the college game, we will be fine. in the meantime, we have Geo, JY, Mathis, Mulcahy, RHJ, Myles and Cliff to hold it down. All seven can put up double digit scoring in any game.

Last years team beat 15-17 Bryant by 2, up 8 at half(Yeboah 24 minutes 10 pts.) and 14-19 Drexel by 5, down 1 at half(Yeboah 22 minutes, 7 pts) in the first 3 games in 2019-20, did any of the first three games resemble that even remotely without Geo.

We won three games by 23, 21, and 14, none in question. We played 3 games in 5 days.. We have 3 guys on the roster to get us into our offense, Geo, JY and Mulcahy. with McConnell redshirting, Geo injured, and other two starting throws off the substitution patterns the whole weekend. We won all three comfortably. The only thing we might need to find is a third guy behind Geo and Harper to be that goto shot taker, when Harper had foul trouble and Geo out. The offense looked scattered and careless. That is the only noticeable flaw. I'm not concerned in the least.
Was just going to post something like this, so thanks for saving me the time! I agree we're not a Final Four team and maybe not even top 20, but I absolutely believe we should make the Tourney, as long as Geo comes back in time for the B1G schedule and we don't lose any of him, Harper or Young to injury (the others are more replaceable, which is why next year is tough, unless Geo and JY play here again next year, which is doubtful, as they're going to want to play pro, even if it's Europe, China, etc.).

Cliff is already as good as Carter and will be better soon, Myles should improve some, and JY/Mathis/Mulcahy already look improved (and in theory Geo should be a little better) and Mag looks good for a frosh; jury is out on Reiber and Palmquist for me, though. So we should be at least a little better at 4 of 5 positions and a bit worse at one, although without Caleb we'll lose some experienced depth. My point is I think we'll be as good as last year, which is pretty good.

Also for kyk - it's not a "fact" that we don't run an offense - that's your opinion and I disagree. It is a fact, so far that we're not a very good FT shooting team. And while we will obviously have less of a home court advantage, the same will be true of our opponents when we go on the road.

As an aside, I wonder how these rating services are going to "rank" home/road wins vs. past years - I would assume there needs to be some adjustment, as home court advantages shrink without fans.
 
Based on what I have seen so far, one big weakness is our FT shooting. What the hell were these guys doing over the summer? Not sure that can be improved.
 
Guys please get a grip. Our best player is not playing. We have upgraded every position from last year’s roster except maybe yeboah and that again is a maybe. We have three guys averaging double figures without geo who should be a forth. Every player has gotten better. Our weakest link last year was the 5 spot which we upgraded that over night. All players have visibly improved off of last year.

This is a typical pikiell team(just like last years team) just more athletic. They defend, rebound, have an offense that has a bit to be desired and miss enough foul shots to drive you crazy. No crowd, big or small, will change these three things. This is what pikiell teams do. Instead of complaining you should learn to like it.

As far as Caleb goes, name one game last year where mcconnell was the difference. I don’t think you can. He is a good 7th/8th guy. Let’s not pretend he is anything different. Last year, Jan 1-feb 9 he played 25-34 minutes per game, from feb 12 - 26 he played 15 minutes then in March he played 3-5 minutes. His minutes were dramatically cut down the stretch.
 
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Guys please get a grip. Our best player is not playing. We have upgraded every position from last year’s roster except maybe yeboah and that again is a maybe. We have three guys averaging double figures without geo who should be a forth. Every player has gotten better. Our weakest link last year was the 5 spot which we upgraded that over night. All players have visibly improved off of last year.

This is a typical pikiell team(just like last years team) just more athletic. They defend, rebound, have an offense that has a bit to be desired and miss enough foul shots to drive you crazy. No crowd, big or small, will change these three things. This is what pikiell teams do. Instead of complaining you should learn to like it.

As far as Caleb goes, name one game last year where mcconnell was the difference. I don’t think you can. He is a good 7th/8th guy. Let’s not pretend he is anything different. Last year, Jan 1-feb 9 he played 25-34 minutes per game, from feb 12 - 26 he played 15 minutes then in March he played 3-5 minutes. His minutes were dramatically cut down the stretch.
Caleb was a difference maker early after Geo went down. He struggled late in the season but he had a great stretch of games
 
These were tune up games. The competition level was zero

New to following NCAA basketball and RU Hoops? Stronger mid-major programs are no longer zero level competition. In fact Kentucky lost to that same "zero" type competition this weekend. These games in past years were tenuous at best for RU and this year people are complaining because we only in by 15 against a mid-major who averages 26 wins the past several years and are only a bubble team. LOL.
 
New to following NCAA basketball and RU Hoops? Stronger mid-major programs are no longer zero level competition. In fact Kentucky lost to that same "zero" type competition this weekend. These games in past years were tenuous at best for RU and this year people are complaining because we only in by 15 against a mid-major who averages 26 wins the past several years and are only a bubble team. LOL.
Did you watch the games.
 
Yep - every minute of all three games.

but you did not answer my question, have you closely followed RU Basketball for a significant amount of time like others here?
I’m a fanatic, I don’t base my current fandom pleasure on how shite we were pre-Pike.
I’m all in on how good we can be with Geo, and concerned Cliff isn’t ready to contribute against elite competition yet.
 
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Yep - every minute of all three games.

but you did not answer my question, have you closely followed RU Basketball for a significant amount of time like others here?
No, but that doesnt mean that I dont follow and no basketball. Up until 2 years ago the team was terrible.
 
This team won comfortably these first 3 games unlike prior years. It was evident last year that we had the talent to compete but we got off to a slow start with the Bryant/Drexel close games and the St. Bonnie’s and Pittsburgh losses . But things started to click as the talent came through to produce multiple wins but also some dominant performances that would have beaten almost any team in the country, Seton Hall, Nebraska away, Penn State home, Illinois home and Maryland home . All those games saw leads of at least 20 -25 points. This team has the same potential to do more. You can nitpick all you want as this is a message board and we are speculating , but our core is better in the early sample size , and dare I say much better. It has not been cranked up it defensively, and the easy uptempo and fast breaks have not allowed a complete assessment . This team has the most potential of any team since the 70’s and is a deep team. Nitpick all you want but we will likely be very happy as the season unfolds
 
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This . I would be surprised if we make the ncaa tournament as a 7 seed or better . So yeah we are probably a bubble type team . Schedule is too tough .
I think you're wrong. Regardless of homefield advantage, when we played on the road last year we lost many of those games by under 10 points. I think we're going to do really well and play tough D and O and wind up in the top 6 of the conference and easily get into the NCAA's.
 
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I think you're wrong. Regardless of homefield advantage, when we played on the road last year we lost many of those games by under 10 points. I think we're going to do really well and play tough D and O and wind up in the top 6 of the conference and easily get into the NCAA's.
Hey, once in a while I am wrong . I was wrong Saturday at halftime of the Purdue game . Hope to be wrong again here
 
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I’ll bite on Caleb. We don’t win the first Purdue game or the Minnesota game without him. I’m not sure we win the NW disaster without his 9 points / 6 boards either. There were other early games where the kid came up huge.

In my opinion, getting him back for part of this season could be the difference between just making the tournament and a possible Sweet 16 or even Elite 8 (with the right draw) run. The kid shoots a career 79.2% from the charity stripe. That would be a huge addition to have available the line up to close out games - even if Pike limits his minutes.
 
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People arent recognizing how big a loss yeboah was. 3 point shooting, rebounding, free throws, veteran presence. And although caleb isnt a player whos gonna put the team on his back he was always good for 15 mins a night where hed use his length, nail open 3’s, and knock down free throws.

The simple facts are

1) we dont run an offense and wont be able to just run vs more athletic teams
2) we cant bit free throws and this will lose us close games
3) its alot easier to play balls to the wall defense in front of 8500 peoples energy youre feeding off.

Bottom line. Lower your expectations. People are getting way ahead of themselves here. We dont have that much talent. Cliff isnt a 1-2 and done player like most of you thought for some odd reason. Our hope should be we sneak in the tourney but if we miss it, it shouldnt be that big of a disappointment, we’re just not THAT good. We’re a middle of the pack B1G team 7th-9th best, we’ll see if thats good enough.
Let's "face it". Another dumb premature post.
 
Let me be the 67th response to the OP to say, this take is just way premature.

Right now we’re all just “watching how the sausage is made.” We need to give it 8 or 10 games before we can make any conclusive declarations. We’re just not a final product yet.
 
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Anyone else think maybe the team was tired after playing three games in 5 days?
Anyone else think maybe there is a bit of an adjustment to the game feeling like a scrimmage?
Anyone else think maybe NOT having Geo Baker may affect things a bit.
Anyone else think maybe we should not listen to the guy who hammered Pike all last year?
Last night’s game wasn’t great, neither was last year’s loss to the Bonnies. We turned out all right. We’re a work in progress, but I like our team. One of the other 3 freshmen will step up. Oscar can be a shooter if he gets some looks. Mag has played some good minutes. I have seen Reiber that much.
Go RU!!
 
All that said, If Geo has a high ankle sprain that limits his play all season long...you’re comfortable with Paul and Jacob running this offense against elite competition?

Zap, have been a Geo fan since the first game on TV when he was a freshman. He had that"we got this" attitude early on, and he is the leader. If it is a high ankle sprain, we are in real trouble. You know from experience how long they take before an athlete can even practice. Absolutely zero faith in JY as a PG--he is happier looking for his shot when he has the ball, Mulcahy has to develop some offense first--maybe he will be ready next year. But not now. We need Geo back.
 
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Rutgers spent how much of their practices running stuff with Baker running the show? And then he gets hurt right away and because it's three games in five days there's no time to practice stuff without him. That has to be considered along with everything else.
 
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Rutgers spent how much of their practices running stuff with Baker running the show? And then he gets hurt right away and because it's three games in five days there's no time to practice stuff without him. That has to be considered along with everything else.
The team obviously practices with others running the show too and if they didnt thats a concern in itself
 
The team obviously practices with others running the show too and if they didnt thats a concern in itself
They did!
Do you agree the offense goes thru Paul in the half court offense?
Is it odd your point guard would not be the one taking the ball up court when playing against a full court pressing team?
 
No, but that doesnt mean that I dont follow and no basketball. Up until 2 years ago the team was terrible.

Point you made was that RU played against "Zero" competition. If you've followed along, even last year as a tourney team games against these type of opponents were tenuous. We have never fully dominated what you classify as tune-up slate. Last year we beat Bryant by only 2, Drexel by 5, and lost to the Bonnies. In this day and age, good mid-major programs have firepower, very good players and are dangerous - just ask Virginia and Kentucky this year already.
 
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They did!
Do you agree the offense goes thru Paul in the half court offense?
Is it odd your point guard would not be the one taking the ball up court when playing against a full court pressing team?
Paul is going to be the key player for us vs Cuse. He is a very good distributor and he is the guy who controls the foul line/middle of the 2-3 zone for us. If Paul plays well, we beat cuse, if he doesnt we lose. I think its that simple
 
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Point you made was that RU played against "Zero" competition. If you've followed along, even last year as a tourney team games against these type of opponents were tenuous. We have never fully dominated what you classify as tune-up slate. Last year we beat Bryant by only 2, Drexel by 5, and lost to the Bonnies. In this day and age, good mid-major programs have firepower, very good players and are dangerous - just ask Virginia and Kentucky this year already.
This is a very good example of fanatic fans on opposite sides of the spectrum Insanity...thanks for bringing it up.
IMO, there’s two types of fans, after these first 3 games they fall under, 1) we beat 3 representative programs by double digits and never felt for one second we were in jeopardy of losing.
2)
We out athleted 3 underwhelming teams and looked out of sync to much for my liking, I’m nervous about playing against teams with similar athleticism to us...especially without Geo.

Two examples of great fans completely invested emotionally in the program.
Both equally great fans.

I’m admittedly an Eeyore type fan...I got that from my dad.
 
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Imo if youre not confidently in the tourney until the last weekend youre a bubble team. Heres a way to view it. If we lose to purdue in the last game would you bet a decent sum of money were in the tourney? What seeds do you consider bubble teams?
Last year ALL prognosticators said minimum of 7 to 9 Big teams would make tourney. Even if we lost to Purdue we were in. As far as seeding goes I wouldn’t have mad any idea where
 
Lol okay. So I ask you two questions.

1) what seeds do you consider bubble teams?
2) what seed do you think RU gets this year?
My definition of a bubble team is one that is not 99% sure its name will be in the bracket when the field is announced. We were NOT on the bubble once we beat Purdue at Mackey. I think we would've been a bubble team if we had lost that game and lost our first B1G tournament game. As far as a seed number, that could vary year to year but I would say bubble teams are usually starting around #10.

What seed will we get? Depends on Geo's health and not losing anyone else. With a fully healthy Geo, I think we are a minimum 7 seed and quite possibly as high as #3 or #4 if we can finish top four in the B1G. Andy Katz had us a #4 seed in the East in his preseason bracket. Sounds good to me.
 
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My definition of a bubble team is one that is not 99% sure its name will be in the bracket when the field is announced. We were NOT on the bubble once we beat Purdue at Mackey. I think we would've been a bubble team if we had lost that game and lost our first B1G tournament game. As far as a seed number, that could vary year to year but I would say bubble teams are usually starting around #10.

What seed will we get? Depends on Geo's health and not losing anyone else. With a fully healthy Geo, I think we are a minimum 7 seed and quite possibly as high as #3 or #4 if we can finish top four in the B1G. Andy Katz had us a #4 seed in the East in his preseason bracket. Sounds good to me.
So in your mind we were a bubble team until the last game of the year? Again, I consider that a bubble team
 
So in your mind we were a bubble team until the last game of the year? Again, I consider that a bubble team

I don’t think that’s what he said but he can speak for himself. We were unique in that our resume was fine. We just needed that road win. Our NET or whatever the NCAA model that used had us clearly in with a couple of weeks to go. Purdue was just the lock. Even if we lost in Mackey we were likely in a certainly in with a first round W in Indy. We would have been a 7 or 8 seed and that is not a bubble team, period.
 
Last year we had to play our way in; this year we'd have to play our way out of the tourney. We you could say we were a bubble for much of last year, but not on what would have been selection Sunday since we were a lock. This year, we'd have to have a losing record in the league to be on the bubble. I think we're a good team and won't have a problem getting in.
 
My main concerns right now are no home cooking and Geo's injury. Other than that, I'm happy with 3-0.
 
This is a very good example of fanatic fans on opposite sides of the spectrum Insanity...thanks for bringing it up.
IMO, there’s two types of fans, after these first 3 games they fall under, 1) we beat 3 representative programs by double digits and never felt for one second we were in jeopardy of losing.
2)
We out athleted 3 underwhelming teams and looked out of sync to much for my liking, I’m nervous about playing against teams with similar athleticism to us...especially without Geo.

Two examples of great fans completely invested emotionally in the program.
Both equally great fans.

I’m admittedly an Eeyore type fan...I got that from my dad.


Good points. I tend to be overly analytical / rational which can come across as unemotional at times as a fan and probably fit into the middle of your two choices. So far we've handily beat the teams we should have beaten, however that does not make them "Zeros" or RU's effort "Zero's" as the poster Gumpper indicated. It also does not mean that RU is world beaters and not without flaws.

The only comparison I can draw from this for RU Basketball is previous years. So far, with the team looking disorganized on offense at times, missing it's on the court leader (and one of it's best players), missing another key player, not shooting with any significant % from the line and arc.......this team handily beat good - very good mid major programs when in years past, there was significantly more struggle. While it doesn't mean the team will not struggle in future games, to me it is a very good sign so far.
 
Last years team beat 15-17 Bryant by 2, up 8 at half(Yeboah 24 minutes 10 pts.) and 14-19 Drexel by 5, down 1 at half(Yeboah 22 minutes, 7 pts) in the first 3 games in 2019-20, did any of the first three games resemble that even remotely without Geo.

as a long time observer, I am accustomed to our team playing ragged early on.....the defense never seems at full force, and teams that should not be anywhere near us, stay in the game.

as you mentioned, Bryant and Drexel were struggles

Yet, this is the same team that had a 20 plus second half lead on top 10 Maryland...... who was playing for the league title, had they won...

compounding things is the fact that Geo is out during the usual early games

not concerned, based on what usually happens with our team.

the defense, in particular, will crank it up come league play
 
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