FLO WRESTLING RANKS RUTGERS WRESTLERS

[wngarbarini]

Flo Wrestling has put out the rankings of the weight classes recently and the following RU wrestlers were ranked:
Nick Suriano # 3
Scott Delvecchio # 12
Anthony Ashnault # 5
Richie Lewis # 7
Jordan Pagano # 15
Nick Gravina # 9
Team ranked # 13
As you know the top 8 places at the NCAAs are All American so we have 3 wrestlers in the top 8 and 3 more who are a short distance away. Wouldn't it be nice to have 6 All Americans this year. We can hope.

 

[Abro1975]

Need AA to be able to go in Feb and March.

 

[matter7172]

I think the biggest area of concern for Rutgers is that this is a very senior-dominated lineup. Four listed above and Gross. That's half a team that has to be replaced after this season. Penn State, for example, has two (possibly three if Keener breaks into the lineup) seniors. Iowa, as another example, lost a similar number of starters (4 or 5, I forget which) after last season and is projected to have the weakest lineup they've had in a long time. Five guys is an awful lot to have to replace. Add in that Pagano has only one season left after this one and it's a really pivotal transition looming.

 

[CerealNTacos]

uhhhhh okay? thanks for your solid input matter! your reply literally has nothing to do with the original post.

 

[wngarbarini]

Matter
The only seniors are Delvecchio, Ashnault(if he does not get a medical redshirt) and Lewis of yhose ranked kids. Pagano and Gravina have 1 more year. Yes Gross is a Senior too so I just want to get your facts accurate.

 

[matter7172]

Matter
The only seniors are Delvecchio, Ashnault(if he does not get a medical redshirt) and Lewis of yhose ranked kids. Pagano and Gravina have 1 more year. Yes Gross is a Senior too so I just want to get your facts accurate.

Rutgers has Gravina listed as a redshirt senior on the roster. It also lists his seasons wrestling for Rutgers (this is the fifth year including the redshirt year in 2013-14, with the first year of B1G duals in 2014-15).

http://scarletknights.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3049

The roster information can't be that wrong, can it?

 

[Road Crew STU]

Rutgers has Gravina listed as a redshirt senior on the roster. It also lists his seasons wrestling for Rutgers (this is the fifth year including the redshirt year in 2013-14, with the first year of B1G duals in 2014-15).

http://scarletknights.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3049

The roster information can't be that wrong, can it?

I think it was said that Gravina's had two medical redshirt years - so while it's his fifth year, i remember hearing that they are confident he'll be granted a sixth.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Rutgers has Gravina listed as a redshirt senior on the roster. It also lists his seasons wrestling for Rutgers (this is the fifth year including the redshirt year in 2013-14, with the first year of B1G duals in 2014-15).

http://scarletknights.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3049

The roster information can't be that wrong, can it?

Gravina qualifies for a clock extension. So most everyone expects he will be back next year.

 

[wngarbarini]

He did get the extension. I got that from his lips! He will be back next year Matter. I don’t care what the roster says.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I'm sure Matter is combing the open tourney results and drafting his letter to the NCAA as we speak.

 

[wngarbarini]

I hope so. While doing that why not look into tha North Carolina fake course scandal.

 

[matter7172]

He did get the extension. I got that from his lips! He will be back next year Matter. I don’t care what the roster says.

Ok. But Rutgers website indicates he wrestled in 7 dual meets, including 3 B1G duals. Wrestlestat confirms that.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20360/gravina-nicholas/profile

He wrestled in more than 30% of the team's duals that year and you can't apply for the waiver until after the fifth year, so how could he hear about something before he is eligible to apply for it?

In addition, the NCAA rules require that the injury occurred before the second half of the season began. Gravina was injured in January 2015, after the second half of the season began. He wrestled in three duals after the second half of the season began.

If any of the four conditions are not met, a medical waiver is not supposed to be issued and Gravina fails two of the four.

Color me dubious.

 

[wngarbarini]

Come back to my post in September 2018 and we will then see.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Ok. But Rutgers website indicates he wrestled in 7 dual meets, including 3 B1G duals. Wrestlestat confirms that.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20360/gravina-nicholas/profile

He wrestled in more than 30% of the team's duals that year and you can't apply for the waiver until after the fifth year, so how could he hear about something before he is eligible to apply for it?

In addition, the NCAA rules require that the injury occurred before the second half of the season began. Gravina was injured in January 2015, after the second half of the season began. He wrestled in three duals after the second half of the season began.

If any of the four conditions are not met, a medical waiver is not supposed to be issued and Gravina fails two of the four.

Color me dubious.

You are confusing medical hardship waiver with clock extension. Clock extension is not based on the rigid criteria applicable to a medical hardship waiver. Its the same situation Ashnault is in.

I've explained it here before on here. But to get a clock extension, you need to show that you missed the equivlent of 2 seasons due to injury. It does not have the set requirements a medical hardship waiver does.

So pracitcally speaking, where an athlete has redshirted, and then missed a season due to injury, they only need to show the specific medical hardship criteria for the year missed due to injury.

For the redshirt year, you do not need to hit the medical hardship waiver criteria.

 

[koleszar]

You are confusing medical hardship waiver with clock extension. Clock extension is not based on the rigid criteria applicable to a medical hardship waiver. Its the same situation Ashnault is in.

I've explained it here before on here. But to get a clock extension, you need to show that you missed the equivlent of 2 seasons due to injury. It does not have the set requirements a medical hardship waiver does.

So pracitcally speaking, where an athlete has redshirted, and then missed a season due to injury, they only need to show the specific medical hardship criteria for the year missed due to injury.

For the redshirt year, you do not need to hit the medical hardship waiver criteria.

Cabbage good job on explaining this all over again. Don't know how many times your going to have to regurgitate the same info but you may want to pin it to the top. Maybe headline it, "For all you psu dunces".

 

[wngarbarini]

I don’t know the rules but all I know is what Gravina told me months ago at practice.

 

[matter7172]

You are confusing medical hardship waiver with clock extension. Clock extension is not based on the rigid criteria applicable to a medical hardship waiver. Its the same situation Ashnault is in.

Where are the rules for "clock extension" set forth. That would be helpful.

And I don't see where Gravina missed the equivalent of 2 seasons. He lost two months his redshirt freshman year (and I presume the redshirt year) to injury. That's not the equivalent of two seasons. Not only that, but this will be his fourth year of competition. I don't know of any NCAA rule that allows five years of competition, regardless of when the clock starts running.

 

[Abro1975]

My wife's mom has a hair extension. Is that kind of similiar? Honestly, I never heard the term clock extension before, but if it gives Gravina another season....Then I Like It !

Could Asnault get one too?

 

[wngarbarini]

Hopefully

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Where are the rules for "clock extension" set forth. That would be helpful.

And I don't see where Gravina missed the equivalent of 2 seasons. He lost two months his redshirt freshman year (and I presume the redshirt year) to injury. That's not the equivalent of two seasons. Not only that, but this will be his fourth year of competition. I don't know of any NCAA rule that allows five years of competition, regardless of when the clock starts running.

I'm not here to help you. The rules are in the NCAA manual - same place all the other rules are. Or just google "NCAA clock extension" and read any of the multitude of links that magically appear. The rule for the clock extension is up to the Reinstatement Committee...there are no mandatory criteria.

This is the same rule Ashnault is up against.

 

[matter7172]

I'm not here to help you. The rules are in the NCAA manual - same place all the other rules are. Or just google "NCAA clock extension." You do not understand the rules. The rule for the clock extension is up to the NCAA...there are no explicit criteria. Generally, you can qualify if you miss "more than one year." The Reinstatement Committee can give it to whomever they think deserving though.

This is the same rule Ashnault is up against.

I did look it up. There is nothing there that allows someone to have a fifth year of actual competition. Ashnault is up against something else entirely. Nobody has suggested he can wrestle his fourth year of competition this year *and* get another year.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I did look it up. There is nothing there that allows someone to have a fifth year of actual competition. Ashnault is up against something else entirely. Nobody has suggested he can wrestle his fourth year of competition this year *and* get another year.

You are correct. There is nothing that allows you a 5th year to compete. In conjunction with a clock extension, you need to get a waiver for one of the non-redshirt years.

Ashnault is up against the exact same thing as Nick. Redshirt year, medical hardship waiver, and clock extension. Maybe you should re-read the manual.

 

[matter7172]

You are correct. There is nothing that allows you a 5th year to compete. In conjunction with a clock extension, you need to get a waiver for one of the non-redshirt years.

Ashnault is up against the exact same thing as Nick. Redshirt year, medical hardship waiver, and clock extension. Maybe you should re-read the manual.

No thanks. How is a waiver granted? Is it totally discretionary? Again, Ashnault has wrestled three years, so has Gravina. Are you suggesting Ashnault can wrestle this year and next?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

No thanks. How is a waiver granted? Is it totally discretionary? Again, Ashnault has wrestled three years, so has Gravina. Are you suggesting Ashnault can wrestle this year and next?

Practically speaking, it is the same for all athletes who have redshirted. You have 5 years to compete in 4. To get a 6th year to compete in, you need to get a medical hardship waiver for one of the 4 competition years and you need a clock extension. That's the part most people do not understand. They think because the player misses a year to injury they can come back. That is wrong, because even though the medical hardship waiver restores the competition year, they are still out of eligibility.

So Ashnault's situation is pretty straightforward. He redshirted, and let's assume he is going not going to compete at all this year (I don't know if this is actually the plan -- but let's assume). If that occurs he will have only competed in 3 years, but his 5 year clock will be up. His problem is eligibility, not competition. If Ash does not compete at all this year, he does not need to apply for a medical hardship waiver, he only needs to apply for a clock extension, so he will get his 6th year to use his 4th competition year.

Presumably, Ash will apply for the clock extension on the grounds that he missed more than one year due to injury, and will use the redshirt year as the other year that he was hurt. Many published guidelines suggest you need to miss the equivalent of 2 years, but there are no set criteria, other than that you miss "more than one year" and that it be due to a situation outside of the athlete's control (for which there is guidance). The clock extension is totally discretionary.

Gravina's situation is that once he competes this year, he will have competed in 4 years, and he will have used up his 5 years of eligibility. Thus, he will have to show that he qualifies for a medical hardship in one of his seasons of competition, and that he qualifies for a clock extension. Hardship waiver will be sought for the 2015 season, and clock extension will be sought based on the 2015 season and missing his entire redshirt year (2014).

 

[PhilaPhans]

No thanks. How is a waiver granted? Is it totally discretionary? Again, Ashnault has wrestled three years, so has Gravina. Are you suggesting Ashnault can wrestle this year and next?

At some point you'll realize everything is discretionary.

 

[matter7172]

Gravina's situation is that once he competes this year, he will have competed in 4 years, and he will have used up his 5 years of eligibility. Thus, he will have to show that he qualifies for a medical hardship in one of his seasons of competition, and that he qualifies for a clock extension. Hardship waiver will be sought for the 2015 season, and clock extension will be sought based on the 2015 season and missing his entire redshirt year (2014).

But I don't see how Gravina can get a fifth year of competition. His problem is he wrestled in both halves of his redshirt freshman year and wrestled in conference duals in the second half of the year. I can't think of anyone who was permitted to wrestle five years in six years of eligibility. If Gravina does, there will be lots of howling and maybe worse.

I also disagree with your assessment of the medical/hardship redshirt. NCAA rules clearly state that the athlete must meet four conditions, two of which Gravina doesn't - a) his injury did not occur in the first half of the season and b) he wrestled in more than 30% of Rutgers duals that season. That's in the NCAA rules. Unless you can point to an exception to those conditions, I don't see it.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

But I don't see how Gravina can get a fifth year of competition. His problem is he wrestled in both halves of his redshirt freshman year and wrestled in conference duals in the second half of the year. I can't think of anyone who was permitted to wrestle five years in six years of eligibility. If Gravina does, there will be lots of howling and maybe worse.

I also disagree with your assessment of the medical/hardship redshirt. NCAA rules clearly state that the athlete must meet four conditions, two of which Gravina doesn't - a) his injury did not occur in the first half of the season and b) he wrestled in more than 30% of Rutgers duals that season. That's in the NCAA rules. Unless you can point to an exception to those conditions, I don't see it.

You cannot compete in 5 years without a hardship waiver for one of the years in which you competed. He will either get his waiver from the Committee or he won't. The only howling will be people who cannot bother to inform themselves as to the rules, and then want to complain.

Where did I give an assessment of medical hardship?
Why do you think he wrestled in more than 30% in 2015?
Why do you think he wrestled in the second half of the season in 2015?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You cannot compete in 5 years without a hardship waiver for one of the years in which you competed. He will either get his waiver from the Committee or he won't. The only howling will be people who cannot bother to inform themselves as to the rules, and then want to complain.

Where did I give an assessment of medical hardship?
Why do you think he wrestled in more than 30% in 2015?
Why do you think he wrestled in the second half of the season in 2015?

From https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20360/gravina-nicholas/profile

He wrestled on 6 competition dates: 11/2, 12/21, 12/28, 1/2, 1/9 and 1/11. There are 16 competition dates allowed. 6/16 = 37.5%
As far as the second half of the season, I'm pretty sure they use January 1 as the start date of the second half of the season, and Gravina wrestled 3 times after that date.

Just so you know, I really don't care if the kid wrestles or not. I just find it interesting that discussions like this take place year after year. Seems to me that means there is plenty of room for improvement in the clarity of the hardship/clock extension rules by the NCAA, which won't happen, because they want decision-making leeway.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

From https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/20360/gravina-nicholas/profile

He wrestled on 6 competition dates: 11/2, 12/21, 12/28, 1/2, 1/9 and 1/11. There are 16 competition dates allowed. 6/16 = 37.5%
As far as the second half of the season, I'm pretty sure they use January 1 as the start date of the second half of the season, and Gravina wrestled 3 times after that date.

Just so you know, I really don't care if the kid wrestles or not. I just find it interesting that discussions like this take place year after year. Seems to me that means there is plenty of room for improvement in the clarity of the hardship/clock extension rules by the NCAA, which won't happen, because they want decision-making leeway.

Max of 16 competition dates plus conference tournament and NCAA tournament is 18.

The day counting is more difficult, but what I do know is that wrestling is a 144 day season and 11/1 ( official start of season) to 1/11 (injury date) is 71 days. That said, 1/11 to 3/21 (last day of NCAA tounrey) is 69 days. So not sure how they do that one to get to 144 with factoring in practices. The official end of the season is also spring exams, which are after the tournament.

 

[PSU_Nut]

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=731

You can read the bylaw above. If an athlete has missed two complete seasons it is a slam dunk. It gets dicey if the athlete has been able to participate some in one or both “injury seasons” I have seen some get approved and some get rejected. Typically the ones who get approved are the ones who have participated in less than 50% of a season. For example is the wrestling season is 30 matches if he has wrestled in more than 15 matches in the two injured season combined they reject it.

For anybody to say or think it is a done deal is just making things up. Yes it would be almost guaranteed if it was two complete seasons but it not. He in the hands of the Committe so anything can happen.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Hey look at that, Gravina got his 6th year.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Hey look at that, Gravina got his 6th year.

Lol. Of course he did. Seems like these guys never learn.

 

[IsItLuck]

Hey look at that, Gravina got his 6th year.

according to...?

 

[rutgers0423]

Great news on Gravina this morning!

 

[Clearscreen25]

according to...?

Bobby Deren of this website reported it in an article today. I am not sure if it is a premium article or not, but it is on the scarlet nation.com site.

 

[IsItLuck]

Bobby Deren of this website reported it in an article today. I am not sure if it is a premium article or not, but it is on the scarlet nation.com site.

Thanks, I clearly missed that, as my bookmark goes straight to this forum.

Link for @matter7172
https://rutgers.rivals.com/news/exclusive-nick-gravina-granted-sixth-year-of-eligibility

 

[matter7172]

Thanks, I clearly missed that, as my bookmark goes straight to this forum.

Link for @matter7172
https://rutgers.rivals.com/news/exclusive-nick-gravina-granted-sixth-year-of-eligibility

As I said in another thread, I am done with the NCAA and B1G. Their rulings are entirely arbitrary. There is zero consistency. Iowa's not going to be happy with Gravina comes out on the mat for the fifth time in a dual (in five different seasons) against them. Don't think anyone has ever done that before.

 

[PhilaPhans]

As I said in another thread, I am done with the NCAA and B1G. Their rulings are entirely arbitrary. There is zero consistency. Iowa's not going to be happy with Gravina comes out on the mat for the fifth time in a dual (in five different seasons) against them. Don't think anyone has ever done that before.

Do you even bother using facts, or just spout out whatever sounds right? I get your contention, but we didn't wrestle Iowa in a dual last year. He wrestled Brooks at Midlands and NCAAs only.

 

[matter7172]

Do you even bother using facts, or just spout out whatever sounds right? I get your contention, but we didn't wrestle Iowa in a dual last year. He wrestled Brooks at Midlands and NCAAs only.

Only because of the B1G weird scheduling, but you are correct.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

As I said in another thread, I am done with the NCAA and B1G. Their rulings are entirely arbitrary. There is zero consistency. Iowa's not going to be happy with Gravina comes out on the mat for the fifth time in a dual (in five different seasons) against them. Don't think anyone has ever done that before.

Meh. You just don't understand the rules as well as you think you do.

If he qualifies he qualifies. The clock extension rules have always been highly discretionary. I don't see why anyone would have cause to be unhappy. The kid has missed significant time, throughout his career due to fairly severe injuries.

Who has had an application similar to Gravina and been denied?