Flood said he will not give Rettig a series in the first half because it impacts Laviano's learning

[miketd1]

kupuna: cheers, mate. I'm not the bad guy! Like you, I just have strong opinions.

Here's a fantastic article that talks about Bobby Petrino's shallow cross concept out of a spread formation and how he is able to protect his QB against even an all-out blitz even though he's only got 5 linemen and 1 RB as potential blockers. It pretty much summarizes my take on hot reads which is essentially receivers cutting their routes short in the event of a blitz. Both QB and receiver must "read" the blitz and alter the play "on-the-fly".

Could we have done this against OSU? Absolutely, but Petrino is an attacking coach who asks a lot of his QBs & receivers. Flood takes a fundamentally different approach and keeps blockers in instead of sending everyone out on routes and relying on read adjustments.

[LINK]

Here's another link of the exact opposite approach (similar to Flood): How Harbaugh took out hot reads, kept people in to protect, and kept route structures simplet: [LINK]

 

[miketd1]

We don't know if you are right re: Rettig vs Laviano. I do know you are correct in wanting to run at the 6 hole. And will add that we need to hit that hole quickly and not with this drop-back handoff crap. The back needs to launch toward that hole on the snap. And I'd love to see the OL fire out more and put Bosa on his ass while making his outside rush move. This standing up and waiting for the DL to make their moves on every down saps the aggression of the OL.. imho. Certainly the zone blocking scheme and zone read runs have a place.. but i think we'd need to throw a lot more often to make them useful (as the blockers look like it could be a pass play in that scheme). We just don't throw enough.. or too painfully in distance.. to maximize the effect of that scheme.

GoodOl: Here's a good read on what I think that play is trying to accomplish. [LINK]

 

[miketd1]

You keep mentioning the lack of time for Laviano, but what you failed to consider is Rettig had no more time when he was in the game. He was hit multiple times and on one of them took a bigger shot than Laviano faced all game. One difference I did see from Rettig is he was decisive and got rid of the ball quickly to avoid sacks. He had no more time than Laviano, so maybe you should go back and watch the 4th quarter again. OSU wanted the shutout and were blitzing us aggressively on that last drive.

You're right -- I need to re-watch Rettig. From what I remember, he had 2-3 horrible throws, the one fantastic deep ball with a hand right in his face (5-7 step drop?), and the TD.

 

[Veiox]

You're right -- I need to re-watch Rettig. From what I remember, he had 2-3 horrible throws, the one fantastic deep ball with a hand right in his face (5-7 step drop?), and the TD.

He had one bad throw on first down from the 4 yd line. He even acknowledged that in the huddle after the play. On second down there was nothing open so rather then take a sack he threw it where no one really had a chance to get it. 3rd down was TD throw. He made a great throw on his first series to a guy who was being held. Herbstreit tried to play it off as good defense and Fowler waited til he finished and said the OSU guy was holding a lot of jersey there.

 

[kupuna133]

kupuna: cheers, mate. I'm not the bad guy! Like you, I just have strong opinions.

Here's a fantastic article that talks about Bobby Petrino's shallow cross concept out of a spread formation and how he is able to protect his QB against even an all-out blitz even though he's only got 5 linemen and 1 RB as potential blockers. It pretty much summarizes my take on hot reads which is essentially receivers cutting their routes short in the event of a blitz. Both QB and receiver must "read" the blitz and alter the play "on-the-fly".

Could we have done this against OSU? Absolutely, but Petrino is an attacking coach who asks a lot of his QBs & receivers. Flood takes a fundamentally different approach and keeps blockers in instead of sending everyone out on routes and relying on read adjustments.

[LINK]

Here's another link of the exact opposite approach (similar to Flood): How Harbaugh took out hot reads, kept people in to protect, and kept route structures simplet: [LINK]

Those are hot routes or sight adjustments. That is a read but not what I was talking about in regard to hot read. Defensive alignment and player personelle are part of the pre-snap read. BOSA was more than likely one of the players the QB was told to look for pre-snap ie the hot read. You would audible depending on where the hot read or reads line up and the defensive formation they are in.

 

[MS-RU]

Flood truly operates in a binary universe and acts as if he is incapable of abstract thought or any sort of flexibility.

 

[miketd1]

I don't know then. That was my understanding of it. I did not play QB like you did. I was a safety, but only at the HS level. And there wasn't much to it -- hats up, read pass; hats down, read run. And we only played Cover 2 (zone & man, but my responsibilities were always the same).

Most of my Xs & Os knowledge comes from being a fan of the game and reading a ton about it. From everything I've ever read about hot routes involves WRs cutting their routes short or looking back early in case of a blitz (there's a funny scene from Wedding Crashers that illustrates this).

It's also why second level defenders are taught to read and anticipate hot routes when a blitz is called -- they purposely sit on the short routes because they know the ball has to come out before the rush gets there.

 

[kupuna133]

I don't know then. That was my understanding of it. I did not play QB like you did. I was a safety, but only at the HS level. And there wasn't much to it -- hats up, read pass; hats down, read run. And we only played Cover 2 (zone & man, but my responsibilities were always the same).

Also played safety and those were my reads as well. Too funny. Have a great day. Great conversation. I am glad some people can have civilized discussion.

 

[MikeRU09]

You're right -- I need to re-watch Rettig. From what I remember, he had 2-3 horrible throws, the one fantastic deep ball with a hand right in his face (5-7 step drop?), and the TD.

And remember, the kid did this with no first team reps since game 1! Imagine of this was game 7 of his growth?

 

[lighty]

And remember, the kid did this with no first team reps since game 1! Imagine of this was game 7 of his growth?

It is quite funny to hear some people act as if Rettig should be judged as if he's played the reps that Laviano has had OR that the number one argument against playing Rettig is because Laviano is the more mobile QB. We DON'T KNOW how mobile Rettig is or if he would have been killed by OSU. It would be nice to see for ourselves because a lot of us do believe Flood plays favorites.

The QB is supposed to be the leader of the team yet he gets caught with a fake ID just before game one and only gets punished for one half? Does that really seem as though the two were rated as close to each other during training camp as the reports all indicated? Maybe the reports were wrong, but it seems just as likely that Flood is playing
favorites again. As he did in recent years when he refused to take Nova out despite throwing 5-6 picks in a game.

There are very few people calling for Rettig to start. Most are simply asking for a chance to see him in a game. We just did and he led RU to its only score, playing against backups who DESPERATELY wanted to preserve the shutout. You can call them backups but you can't deny they wanted the shutout (and the starters were shouting at them to do so).

If Rettig did get a chance to play and actually showed mobility (as he did against Norfolk State), that would remove one of Laviano's strengths. His other main strength (pass completion percentage) is already taking hits against decent teams. So why not see what Rettig can do?

 

[MikeRU09]

It is quite funny to hear some people act as if Rettig should be judged as if he's played the reps that Laviano has had OR that the number one argument against playing Rettig is because Laviano is the more mobile QB. We DON'T KNOW how mobile Rettig is or if he would have been killed by OSU. It would be nice to see for ourselves because a lot of us do believe Flood plays favorites.

The QB is supposed to be the leader of the team yet he gets caught with a fake ID just before game one and only gets punished for one half? Does that really seem as though the two were rated as close to each other during training camp as the reports all indicated? Maybe the reports were wrong, but it seems just as likely that Flood is playing
favorites again. As he did in recent years when he refused to take Nova out despite throwing 5-6 picks in a game.

There are very few people calling for Rettig to start. Most are simply asking for a chance to see him in a game. We just did and he led RU to its only score, playing against backups who DESPERATELY wanted to preserve the shutout. You can call them backups but you can't deny they wanted the shutout (and the starters were shouting at them to do so).

If Rettig did get a chance to play and actually showed mobility (as he did against Norfolk State), that would remove one of Laviano's strengths. His other main strength (pass completion percentage) is already taking hits against decent teams. So why not see what Rettig can do?

It has nothing to do with mobility. Our offense is stagnant because it's one dimensional... There is a reason why Ohio State nearly shut us out playing 1 safety deep...their game plan...press Carroo, play LB tight in the box.. Take out Laviano number one and two options, Carroo and the check...just my opinion

 

[c_husk]

Did we give #77 help, are you saying we can't even slow down a bull rusher with two of our men?

Bosa is taking an outside speed rush, the extra protection should be a chip block by TE or Back to slow him up, not an inside guard trying to go outside. That could be perceived to be on coaching staff.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I'm pretty sure many on here have either played football at some level before, coached it, or have been watching longer than Flood and our staff has been alive. The whole "they do more x's and o's than you do" thing is garbage. It doesn't take Bear Bryant to realize the handling of the QB situation by this staff is horrible.

Easily the dumbest post ever...but if you believe this, please do not ever argue with beaced...

 

[KNICKI]

Flood Sucks. He wasn't even a good offense line coach here. He had a great team his first year because of all of Schiano's players. Then he played scared all year & choked at the end with Louisville. This is the only place in America that actually supports this buffoon. Why can't Rutgers invest in there football program like the others? We go into the BIG10 with a sling shot. It's never going to get better unless football is a priority $$$$$

 

[MS-RU]

Bosa is taking an outside speed rush, the extra protection should be a chip block by TE or Back to slow him up, not an inside guard trying to go outside. That could be perceived to be on coaching staff.

Agreed.

 

[RUfromNJ]

Flood is actively sucking the life out of this program.

 

[soundcrib]

Flood truly operates in a binary universe and acts as if he is incapable of abstract thought or any sort of flexibility.

He is a mathematician.

 

[VirtualKnight]

Bosa is taking an outside speed rush, the extra protection should be a chip block by TE or Back to slow him up, not an inside guard trying to go outside. That could be perceived to be on coaching staff.

A guy like Bosa requires a FB as an inside blocker forcing him outside so the Q can step up and buy time for the routes to develop. If all WR routes are covered the FB releases to the flat as a safety valve receiver. Coaching 101.

 

[yesrutgers01]

A guy like Bosa requires a FB as an inside blocker forcing him outside so the Q can step up and buy time for the routes to develop. If all WR routes are covered the FB releases to the flat as a safety valve receiver. Coaching 101.

We are one of the few football teams that use a FB, I believe you may have figured out why he is so good against everyone

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

GoodOl: Here's a good read on what I think that play is trying to accomplish. [LINK]

That is a good explanation of it... But to work the D must care whether it is pass or run.. And as soon as they realize it doesn't matter the deception is over. I just don't think Flood cares to establish deception in the offense. He tells everyone we are a running team, calls plays like we are a running team, yet expects defenses to respect the look of a pass blocking scheme to help a running play succeed... It makes zero sense.

 

[ru75]

Faster release, stronger arm, and he can't drop more handoffs... Take the confirmation bias blinders off Coach!

 

[coldsprings]

Flood truly operates in a binary universe and acts as if he is incapable of abstract thought or any sort of flexibility.

Your one sentence sums up perfectly what is maddening about Flood. His cognitive abilities seem to be limited. If he recognized his limits he might listen more to others, but he doesn't.

No matter how bad things get, the true believer in Flood will not lose faith. As bad as the team will get, they will believe that Flood's coaching actions prevented things from being even worse. And they will believe that anybody who opposes these actions is undermining Flood and is responsible for any of Flood's failures. Eventually however, even his most ardent admirers will be forced by circumstances to examine the evidence. By that time the program will likely be in shambles.

 

[slyker]

Your one sentence sums up perfectly what is maddening about Flood. His cognitive abilities seem to be limited. If he recognized his limits he might listen more to others, but he doesn't.

No matter how bad things get, the true believer in Flood will not lose faith. As bad as the team will get, they will believe that Flood's coaching actions prevented things from being even worse. And they will believe that anybody who opposes these actions is undermining Flood and is responsible for any of Flood's failures. Eventually however, even his most ardent admirers will be forced by circumstances to examine the evidence. By that time the program will likely be in shambles.

Wow!
So now the Flood critics are analyzing his thought process and have become clairvoyant regarding what advice he is getting from other people ??

“ If he recognized his limits he might listen more to others, but he doesn't.”

What is this poster referring to??

Is this poster aware of advice others are giving Flood about the QB situation that qualifies her/him to make this statement? I have certainly not read any published accounts of Flood not following any advice given by any other qualified person. And of course you cannot be referring to a handful of vocal posters on this board who know absolutely nothing about what has gone on behind the scenes at the Hale center and the practice fields.


People just keep making things up. Freakin Comedy central

 

[NotInRHouse]

This is why you need to fire him NOW. The seniors on this team deserve a bowl game. Can Flood and give Norries a chance to beat Nebraska and Maryland with Rettig and Martin getting the most touches.

Flood is going to destroy this program, the off the field reputation and defense are already in tatters after being among the most respecatble nationally and he going to gut the offense while at it

The only reason we won any games in 12 was Robb Smith, and last year was Fridge.

The Floodies have already lined up their fall man. First it was Dave Brock, then it was Dave Cohen, now it's Rossi, it's always Julie, Schiano left the cupboard bare....

No, it was and is Flood, he was bad OL coach that Schiano wanted fired until Tim "Grunniger Deaux" Pernetti had other thoughts about it.

More arrests than B1G wins, and this moron is getting defended? Thankfully it seems like most of his defenders do not have RU degrees.

 

[coldsprings]

Wow!
So now the Flood critics are analyzing his thought process and have become clairvoyant regarding what advice he is getting from other people ??

“ If he recognized his limits he might listen more to others, but he doesn't.”

What is this poster referring to??

Is this poster aware of advice others are giving Flood about the QB situation that qualifies her/him to make this statement? I have certainly not read any published accounts of Flood not following any advice given by any other qualified person. And of course you cannot be referring to a handful of vocal posters on this board who know absolutely nothing about what has gone on behind the scenes at the Hale center and the practice fields.


People just keep making things up. Freakin Comedy central

Making things up about not listening? Did I make up the story about the academic advisor who told Flood he was violating RU policy and that he should stand down? Oh I know that doesn't count because it is not Flood's fault that he didn't listen but the fault of those who made an issue of it.

Or I suppose you believe everyone told Flood after he left Nova in for six interceptions: "Good move coach, every coach in the country will be calling you to learn your QB philosophy."

 

[HoosierKnight]

We would be playing with house money to start Rettig the next two games. Throw him to the wolves. Maybe he rises to the occasion and you have your new QB.

If he fails miserably, you've saved Laviano the sacks and aggravation and have him primed for the last 3 games we need to win to get to a bowl.

We know what we've got with Laviano. He's improved a little but there appears to be little upside left to squeeze out of him. He is not going to regress in two games on the road. And two of our last three are at home so he will have that boost if he goes back to being the starter.

No one will be surprised if we lose the next two on the road. If we are competitive that would be the surprise. And if Rettig can somehow keep his feet and keep the games competitive and improve, maybe he is the guy to vault us a level or two up. We are going nowhere but straight across with Laviano. It could be worse with all Laviano, but why settle for that and not even try.

If you start Laviano for the next two on the road, you are just doing it hoping that Wisky or Mich has a bad day. You aren't beating them nine out of ten times without finding a way to level up.

Personally, I think the two QB's were even and Flood said something in a presser late in the competition that the starter had to "win" the locker room. As a transfer from across the country, I think that left Rettig behind. Several suggested that the team looked energize the second half of Norfolk State when Laviano was under center and it looked that way to me too. Was it really Carroo or was it Laviano or both?

Screw that locker room publicity contest. The players want to win too. Maybe the homerism for Laviano has worn off with a little losing. I would say I saw the team look energized like the 2nd half of Norolk State with Rettig in at the end of the Ohio State game and that was without Carroo.

Start Rettig the next two games. We've got nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

 

[miketd1]

Rewatched Rettig's performance. He was pretty good. Some nice throws and some questionable ones with a TD and a throw-away mixed in. He "felt" pressure and stepped up into the pocket with confidence.

Something I also noticed was that the offense bogged down a bit. At times the offense looked a little confused which resulted in at least one time-out being called. I can't read lips or read Ben McDaniels' mind, but he didn't look too happy with the time out.

Also re-watched some Norfolk State clips. His scramble into the endzone for a TD showed more than functional mobility. The only two remaining questions I have would be 1.) what is his command of the offense and 2.) can he throw on the move. Laviano is a known commodity in those departments.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

This all begs the question.. How stupid is Jeff Towers?

..and how stupid were we for accepting his "help". Read this. We are on the hook for more money, even after the donation, for firing Flood now. And the donation was to be made in $200K increments.. so if we fire Flood I assume those donations will cease. Soooooo stupid. If you couldn't tell that Flood is not a head coach then what are you doing running a FBS P5 program? If you couldn't tell that this deal would saddle you with an inadequate head coach... and cost you more..... sheesh.

So, who is ultimately to blame? I'd guess BARCHI. For all we know he handcuffed JH. His handling of everything from Rice to Pernetti to hiring JH was suspect.. so I'd guess he is ultimately failing here as well.

 

[ScarletDave]

If our backups are so much better than OSU's backups, then our first stringers should be better than their first stringers. But that's not the case obviously - maybe, it's because our "backup" is actually the first stringer in terms of talent, so he had no problem torching the #1 backups in the country.

 

[kupuna133]

Rewatched Rettig's performance. He was pretty good. Some nice throws and some questionable ones with a TD and a throw-away mixed in. He "felt" pressure and stepped up into the pocket with confidence.

Something I also noticed was that the offense bogged down a bit. At times the offense looked a little confused which resulted in at least one time-out being called. I can't read lips or read Ben McDaniels' mind, but he didn't look too happy with the time out.

Also re-watched some Norfolk State clips. His scramble into the endzone for a TD showed more than functional mobility. The only two remaining questions I have would be 1.) what is his command of the offense and 2.) can he throw on the move. Laviano is a known commodity in those departments.

Mike I also saw some confusion with the play call. Plays even with Laviano in the huddle come in late. The Qb is still getting signals relayed with 10-15 seconds left in the play clock. That is a recipe for disaster with young QB's. It adds to the stress for the QB and players and if there is a shred of doubt in the proper playcall everything is compounded.

I have one question for people that talk about the complexity of the offense and it takes time to understand. How does Florida State bring in a transfer QB for summer camp and start him 4 weeks later but we cant get a serviceable back up QB for the past 6 years and counting?

 

[Caliknight]

Mike I also saw some confusion with the play call. Plays even with Laviano in the huddle come in late. The Qb is still getting signals relayed with 10-15 seconds left in the play clock. That is a recipe for disaster with young QB's. It adds to the stress for the QB and players and if there is a shred of doubt in the proper playcall everything is compounded.

I have one question for people that talk about the complexity of the offense and it takes time to understand. How does Florida State bring in a transfer QB for summer camp and start him 4 weeks later but we cant get a serviceable back up QB for the past 6 years and counting?

Fisher is a coach who understands you play the guy with talent and watch him grow into the role.

 

[MS-RU]

Fisher is a coach who understands you play the guy with talent and watch him grow into the role.

Exactly.

 

[Veiox]

Fisher is a coach who understands you play the guy with talent and watch him grow into the role.

That is why he plays for National Championships and our guy plays to not lose by 63.

 

[miketd1]

I have one question for people that talk about the complexity of the offense and it takes time to understand. How does Florida State bring in a transfer QB for summer camp and start him 4 weeks later but we cant get a serviceable back up QB for the past 6 years and counting?

Two reasons:
1.) Everett Golson is a seasoned QB with real game experience including a national title game. He's not easily going to be overwhelmed or flustered. Because of this, he doesn't need to worry about secondary things like winning the locker room or looking over his shoulder. Instead, he can concentrate 100% on the playbook. Which brings me to number two:
2.) I have read that Florida State doesn't run a whole lot of passing concepts. Instead, it relies on a handful of passing concepts that can beat most coverages and simply relies on superior athletes winning battles. [LINK]

 

[kupuna133]

Two reasons:
1.) Everett Golson is a seasoned QB with real game experience including a national title game. He's not easily going to be overwhelmed or flustered. Because of this, he doesn't need to worry about secondary things like winning the locker room or looking over his shoulder. Instead, he can concentrate 100% on the playbook. Which brings me to number two:
2.) I have read that Florida State doesn't run a whole lot of passing concepts. Instead, it relies on a handful of passing concepts that can beat most coverages and simply relies on superior athletes winning battles. [LINK]

Mike nice answers but if you think Golson coming in and was automatically accepted in the locker room as a 5th year transfer you are naive. That is probably the most difficult of all scenarios to overcome with a locker room dynamic. A mercenary. More specifically one with a hatred that FSU and Notre Dame have had over the years. The question is how does a person with 4 week lead in get a grasp of a playbook but multiple people that Rutgers has recruited over the last 6 years not have that intelligence. You hit on it with part 2 of your answer. If it takes 3 years to get a working knowledge of the playbook then the playbook needs to be thrown out.

 

[miketd1]

He was competing against a guy who - in eight career appearances - had completed 53 percent of passes and thrown three touchdowns to four interceptions. [LINK]

Compare that with a guy who can run, engineered an undefeated season, and got the nod from the coach who just won a national title.

I don't see any controversy there. Not even a potential one.

If he had chosen to transfer here as a 5th year transfer, would anyone complain? Heck, Rettig did nothing at LSU and folks want to see him over one of the most efficient QBs in the league...

 

[kupuna133]

He was competing against a guy who - in eight career appearances - had completed 53 percent of passes and thrown three touchdowns to four interceptions. [LINK]

Compare that with a guy who can run, engineered an undefeated season, and got the nod from the coach who just won a national title.

I don't see any controversy there. Not even a potential one.

If he had chosen to transfer here as a 5th year transfer, would anyone complain? Heck, Rettig did nothing at LSU and folks want to see him over one of the most efficient QBs in the league...

Where was there any indication of controversy. Mike I only asked how can someone digest and master a playbook in 4 weeks? but RU cannot find a QB in 6 years that can compete because the playbook is too complex.

Let's take Rettig and Laviano out of it.

 

[HoosierKnight]

Start Rettig the next two games. If it works out great. The worst that could happen is that it only works about half and you have the dreaded QB controversy on your hands. Egads! It is great that Flood is a man of his word and stubborn to a fault. But being stubborn is an attribute only if you are winning. Every other play cannot be a trick or a gadget but changing the QB is pretty much an accepted way to change things up when they are not working. Its not like it should evoke mass hysteria or something. I am not advocating bringing back the Wild Knight.

 

[motorb54]

How many teams give their second string QB a series or two per game when the game is still in doubt?

 

[ag67]

Wow!
So now the Flood critics are analyzing his thought process and have become clairvoyant regarding what advice he is getting from other people ??

“ If he recognized his limits he might listen more to others, but he doesn't.”

What is this poster referring to??

Is this poster aware of advice others are giving Flood about the QB situation that qualifies her/him to make this statement? I have certainly not read any published accounts of Flood not following any advice given by any other qualified person. And of course you cannot be referring to a handful of vocal posters on this board who know absolutely nothing about what has gone on behind the scenes at the Hale center and the practice fields.


People just keep making things up. Freakin Comedy central

I think you should have left out the part I highlighted. The level of ignorance here is astonishing.