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Food for thought for Rutgers Nation...

10 Point Buck

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
15
34
13
What's up Scarlet Nights. Buckeye fan here. I know I know - get lost right. I won't take long...just wanted to share a few thoughts with you all due to some sentiments and things I've read around here the past 1-2 weeks. Of course I fully realize many of you are frustrated and upset over the recent play on the field, etc. I don't blame you. I know C Ash is a hot topic as he should be. What I'm about to say I'm sure has been discussed before, to one degree or another, but here's what I see as the keys for your program moving forward:

I don't know if Chris Ash is or isn't the solution for your program. I do know the man can coach X's and O's and from everything I've seen and experienced with him here at Ohio State, he's the type of guy who will do things the right way, won't cut corners, and will overall represent your University and the State of New Jersey well. But that alone won't get you necessarily to the next 1-2 steps your program needs to go to.

Before I make my main points here I first want to harken back to 1989 and Wisconsin football. Some may be familiar with this situation, but since you weren't on the B1G radar in those days, I'm guessing many of you aren't acutely aware. In 1989 Wisconsin had a horrible football team, and that had been the case for much of the 1980's. They finished at or close to dead last in the conference and many of their games weren't close. It was bad. So they fired their coach Don Morton and brought in a guy named Barry Alvarez. And so as you know Barry began to build the program, had a NJ guy there named Ron Dayne, and they won 3 Rosebowls in the 90's. Beyond Barry upgrading the talent, he formed a lasting "IDENTITY" of physical hard nosed football with teams that ran the ball well....which still eminates to this day. As Barry and the years rolled along and their success continued to be more and more consistent, a program was borne and because of that success they have continued to recruit at a good level and field very good teams year in and year out.

This all coming in Wisconsin, a state which produces far less High School talent than NJ. This is year 3 for C Ash. I don't follow your recruiting that closely, but I think I know that he's not getting really any 4 stars in your state, some 3 stars and some 2 stars. I'm not suggesting someone necessarily is going to come in and just start nabbing all of NJ's 4 stars. That takes time and it takes success. But Rutgers has been to several bowls the past 10 years and so it's not like you haven't had any success. But your head coach has to be able to generate enough buzz to be able to start getting 2-3-4 four stars EACH year. Then the majority of your recruiting classes need to be 3 stars. You can sprinkle in a couple 2 stars here and there for there are 2 stars out there who are diamonds in the rough and good.

So this is year 3 for CA....where is your recruiting???? If you're not seeing him start to pull in an occasional star player from NJ by now, I would be concerned. And where is your identity?? You could see what Wisconsin's identity was very early on. This is very important. To me he had to be able to do this in his first 1-2 years when the buzz about him was fresh. TO me the longer time goes on and your recruiting stays as it's been, then the harder it will be for your program to get to the next phase under CA.

CA can coach, but can he recruit to the level needed to take RU to the middle of the B1G pack. It's all a process. You have to first be in the middle of the pack for a few/several years....with 7-8-9 win seasons consistently. You do that for awhile....then with that success you recruit even better and then the next phase is 9-10-11 win seasons - which is where Wisconsin is right now.

- 10 Point Buck
 
Good post.

Recruiting is bad. 4 stars seem to be a pipe dream these days.

Identity? Not sure. I mean, we burn time outs faster than any other program I’ve ever seen. Maybe that’s our identity.

I very much believe Ash is an excellent Xs & Os coach, but I’ve lost faith in his ability to build & manage a complete football program.

What’s frustrating for our fan base is we thought we were doing what Wisconsin did. We had the guy, we had the identity, we got the Big Ten invite, then all hell breaks loose with two guys who just don’t have the chops to get it done.

It’s all very ‘Rutgers’ of us.
 
Posts that ask intelligent questions are welcome as far as I'm concerned. Let me give a combination of response and my own question(s):

Although it took time, I think Schiano did establish an identity, particularly on the defensive side of the line. RU was known for a slightly undersized but very quick and aggressive defense. Another signature trait was punt/FG blocks on special teams. I'll never forget when, I believe it was in his last year at RU, the STs blocked a FG against Syracuse and were returning it for a TD. The RU player was running down by the Syracuse sideline and as he passed the Syracuse HC you could see him mouthing the words "Every ****ing year!" The offense was pro style, had it's ups and downs, but the talent on the OL got better (it started from terrible) throughout Schiano's tenure.

And in his final 2 years he got a recruiting "set up" man in Jeff Haffley who could deliver 4 stars for him to close on.

But in an instant both were gone, and RU recruiting has never been the same.

Query, did Barry Alverez ever get any NFL overtures? And if not, how much did Wisconsin pay him to stay?
 
Interesting post. At the start I thought you were going to defend Ash, but the way it played out you clearly are acknowledging what many of us know to be true. He isn't a program builder.
 
What's up Scarlet Nights. Buckeye fan here. I know I know - get lost right. I won't take long...just wanted to share a few thoughts with you all due to some sentiments and things I've read around here the past 1-2 weeks. Of course I fully realize many of you are frustrated and upset over the recent play on the field, etc. I don't blame you. I know C Ash is a hot topic as he should be. What I'm about to say I'm sure has been discussed before, to one degree or another, but here's what I see as the keys for your program moving forward:

I don't know if Chris Ash is or isn't the solution for your program. I do know the man can coach X's and O's and from everything I've seen and experienced with him here at Ohio State, he's the type of guy who will do things the right way, won't cut corners, and will overall represent your University and the State of New Jersey well. But that alone won't get you necessarily to the next 1-2 steps your program needs to go to.

Before I make my main points here I first want to harken back to 1989 and Wisconsin football. Some may be familiar with this situation, but since you weren't on the B1G radar in those days, I'm guessing many of you aren't acutely aware. In 1989 Wisconsin had a horrible football team, and that had been the case for much of the 1980's. They finished at or close to dead last in the conference and many of their games weren't close. It was bad. So they fired their coach Don Morton and brought in a guy named Barry Alvarez. And so as you know Barry began to build the program, had a NJ guy there named Ron Dayne, and they won 3 Rosebowls in the 90's. Beyond Barry upgrading the talent, he formed a lasting "IDENTITY" of physical hard nosed football with teams that ran the ball well....which still eminates to this day. As Barry and the years rolled along and their success continued to be more and more consistent, a program was borne and because of that success they have continued to recruit at a good level and field very good teams year in and year out.

This all coming in Wisconsin, a state which produces far less High School talent than NJ. This is year 3 for C Ash. I don't follow your recruiting that closely, but I think I know that he's not getting really any 4 stars in your state, some 3 stars and some 2 stars. I'm not suggesting someone necessarily is going to come in and just start nabbing all of NJ's 4 stars. That takes time and it takes success. But Rutgers has been to several bowls the past 10 years and so it's not like you haven't had any success. But your head coach has to be able to generate enough buzz to be able to start getting 2-3-4 four stars EACH year. Then the majority of your recruiting classes need to be 3 stars. You can sprinkle in a couple 2 stars here and there for there are 2 stars out there who are diamonds in the rough and good.

So this is year 3 for CA....where is your recruiting???? If you're not seeing him start to pull in an occasional star player from NJ by now, I would be concerned. And where is your identity?? You could see what Wisconsin's identity was very early on. This is very important. To me he had to be able to do this in his first 1-2 years when the buzz about him was fresh. TO me the longer time goes on and your recruiting stays as it's been, then the harder it will be for your program to get to the next phase under CA.

CA can coach, but can he recruit to the level needed to take RU to the middle of the B1G pack. It's all a process. You have to first be in the middle of the pack for a few/several years....with 7-8-9 win seasons consistently. You do that for awhile....then with that success you recruit even better and then the next phase is 9-10-11 win seasons - which is where Wisconsin is right now.

- 10 Point Buck
Our biggest issues are recruiting and a lack of identity on any side of the ball. This season, we finally got back our blocked kick identity that seemed to be abandoned for the most part during the first 2 seasons. It's hard to tell if he is an excellent Xs and Os coach, as we've looked awful, blow through timeouts like they're unlimited, and on the D, we don't seem to blitz, stunt or play aggressive, other than DB press coverage.
 
What's up Scarlet Nights. Buckeye fan here. I know I know - get lost right. I won't take long...just wanted to share a few thoughts with you all due to some sentiments and things I've read around here the past 1-2 weeks. Of course I fully realize many of you are frustrated and upset over the recent play on the field, etc. I don't blame you. I know C Ash is a hot topic as he should be. What I'm about to say I'm sure has been discussed before, to one degree or another, but here's what I see as the keys for your program moving forward:

I don't know if Chris Ash is or isn't the solution for your program. I do know the man can coach X's and O's and from everything I've seen and experienced with him here at Ohio State, he's the type of guy who will do things the right way, won't cut corners, and will overall represent your University and the State of New Jersey well. But that alone won't get you necessarily to the next 1-2 steps your program needs to go to.

Before I make my main points here I first want to harken back to 1989 and Wisconsin football. Some may be familiar with this situation, but since you weren't on the B1G radar in those days, I'm guessing many of you aren't acutely aware. In 1989 Wisconsin had a horrible football team, and that had been the case for much of the 1980's. They finished at or close to dead last in the conference and many of their games weren't close. It was bad. So they fired their coach Don Morton and brought in a guy named Barry Alvarez. And so as you know Barry began to build the program, had a NJ guy there named Ron Dayne, and they won 3 Rosebowls in the 90's. Beyond Barry upgrading the talent, he formed a lasting "IDENTITY" of physical hard nosed football with teams that ran the ball well....which still eminates to this day. As Barry and the years rolled along and their success continued to be more and more consistent, a program was borne and because of that success they have continued to recruit at a good level and field very good teams year in and year out.

This all coming in Wisconsin, a state which produces far less High School talent than NJ. This is year 3 for C Ash. I don't follow your recruiting that closely, but I think I know that he's not getting really any 4 stars in your state, some 3 stars and some 2 stars. I'm not suggesting someone necessarily is going to come in and just start nabbing all of NJ's 4 stars. That takes time and it takes success. But Rutgers has been to several bowls the past 10 years and so it's not like you haven't had any success. But your head coach has to be able to generate enough buzz to be able to start getting 2-3-4 four stars EACH year. Then the majority of your recruiting classes need to be 3 stars. You can sprinkle in a couple 2 stars here and there for there are 2 stars out there who are diamonds in the rough and good.

So this is year 3 for CA....where is your recruiting???? If you're not seeing him start to pull in an occasional star player from NJ by now, I would be concerned. And where is your identity?? You could see what Wisconsin's identity was very early on. This is very important. To me he had to be able to do this in his first 1-2 years when the buzz about him was fresh. TO me the longer time goes on and your recruiting stays as it's been, then the harder it will be for your program to get to the next phase under CA.

CA can coach, but can he recruit to the level needed to take RU to the middle of the B1G pack. It's all a process. You have to first be in the middle of the pack for a few/several years....with 7-8-9 win seasons consistently. You do that for awhile....then with that success you recruit even better and then the next phase is 9-10-11 win seasons - which is where Wisconsin is right now.

- 10 Point Buck

Interestingly enough, the head coach of the Buffalo Bulls, Lance Leipold, was a GA at Wisconsin '91-'93 under Barry Alvarez and is considered part of the Alvarez coaching tree.
 
Good post.

Recruiting is bad. 4 stars seem to be a pipe dream these days.

Identity? Not sure. I mean, we burn time outs faster than any other program I’ve ever seen. Maybe that’s our identity.

I very much believe Ash is an excellent Xs & Os coach, but I’ve lost faith in his ability to build & manage a complete football program.

What’s frustrating for our fan base is we thought we were doing what Wisconsin did. We had the guy, we had the identity, we got the Big Ten invite, then all hell breaks loose with two guys who just don’t have the chops to get it done.

It’s all very ‘Rutgers’ of us.
I don't doubt he is an X's and O's guru. He may well be akin to the mad scientist that the company leaves in the lab and never sees the customers or prospective customers because he does not have the personality or charisma. That does not say Ash does not have any personality or any charisma, it just does not appear to be getting through to his "customers," the recruits.

Also, while he may be a brilliant tactician, like the mad scientist, he is not a very good supervisor of an overall organization. Companies see plenty of these types. I worked for one back in the 1990's, and people were practically jumping out of windows to leave the department/company, or just coming to work, mailing it in and going through the motions. Very well may be the case with Coach Ash.
 
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Thanks for sharing... but yeah.

The ice coated dagger to the gut is knowing that WE HAD the pre-Wisconsin ingredients you listed at one point. And we watched it all slowly vanish. Constantly having football fans approach you and say "Rutgers huh? Hey you know you guys were pretty solid for a lil while... what the heck happened? I thought you were on the rise"

Theres no feeling quite as suffocating as that.
 
You're about a year late with this post. We were "concerned" last year. It's way beyond that now.

To answer one of your questions, we don't have an identity. Unless you count running down the clock to limit the number of plays an identity (no matter if we're winning or losing).
 
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