GAME 13 Penn State: All but over

bac2therac

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The season once promising is teetering on the brink of oblivion. 5 straight losses, 6 of the last 7 and uninspired disasterous loss to a bad Penn State team. And please save your comments that Penn State is top 50 in the NET...they are likely the 2nd worst team in the league so I want to shut down any shill talk about ooh they beat Virginia tech. If our expectations have dropped this low, then we truly have reached a new reality. This was a brutal loss and a damning indictment of this coaching staff and its decision making with its rotations and lineups and in their job in trying to push the right buttons. Quite telling some no name coach from nowhere had his team running circles around Rutgers for most of the night. Its not all on Pike. Obviously these players do not care. They did not seem to grasp the importance of this game until the last 10 minutes. You cannot just decide to play at a certain point. I have seen this trend before this season. Team would play uninspired for a stretch and then turn it on. We gave them credit for that. Ultimately we should have been worried. People wanted to give this team credit for Wisconsin..um sorry the signs were there. Its not a case of the shots will fall, I kept hearing like every blog and writer talk about oh we fixed the D and now we just have to make shots. PLEASE STOP STICKING YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND. There are SO MANY things wrong with this team its like whack a mole..one thing will look better one game and then another will be a disaster. Tonight the defense was absolutely piss poor in the first half and so was the effort.

In the first 4 years of Pikiell, we were climbing up the hill. It was a pleasure to watch. We hit the peak earlier this season at 6-0 and ranked 11 but it looks like we are on our way down. I am being objective here. The effort and strategy the past 7 games has been downright dreadful. In the aftermath of tonights loss RU is now 3-6 in league, 7-6 overall and their back is against the wall. Almost no margin of error and there are tough games ahead. RU would need a complete reversal and I am not sure they are capable of it. I give this team NO credit for a late ill fated rally tonight which seemed pretty feeble in the end. Do not forget Pikiell's brainfart of having Myles Johnson out during that key stretch where Harper and Geo got us back in striking range. On the defensive side, RU could not make one stop..not one. Cliff was abused and Myles was on the bench. Its one example of many of Pike just struggling to find the right answers. Another of which is an outright constant subbing and bizarre combinations. Less is more with this team. The Jacob Young benching is interesting and worthy of its own thread. I may actually agree with Pike here and it might be a way to get RU back to where they once were.

So right now I see a team with no hunger. They reached their pinnacle, got caught up in their plaudits and have now watched success pass them by. Just because you get there means nothing. They could not handle success and forget about all the things that got them there. Its truly a shame because its very difficult for me to do these recaps. Its always been about "getting there" and I do not think this program is working upwards anymore. I am not sure they can push the hill back up right now. Unfortunately I have lost my faith. It pains me to say this but we are in precarious position right now. RU is facing almost must win situations in their next 2 or that is it. This program will have to prove EVERYTHING to me at this point. Let's see them to do it. They certainly didnt show it tonight against the 2nd worst team in the league. Now I am being asked to show faith against much better teams. Rutgers, I am begging you to prove me wrong. Regain my faith or just become another mediocre bunch that passed through the RAC. Your move
 

SBP

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I have been killed for saying it but JY is a selfish, out of control player MOST of the time. The bad far out ways the good. Him and Caleb on the bench and this team jelled again. Just my two cents
 

RW90

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I'm at a loss for words. Just when I thought I saw it all tonight, we refused to foul down six with over twenty seconds to go. Complete and utter meltdown from the coaches on down.
 
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ColonelRutgers

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This is exactly the same team I've been watching here for 30 years. Play a good game here or there, maybe get a nice upset over a ranked team, have one or two guys who can get hot but can't count on them to be there every game, and a bunch of undisciplined guys that can't pick up the slack when your best guy is struggling. We have been playing some of the ugliest basketball I can remember in a long, long time. Reminds of the mid-90s Wenzel teams. Some good athletes but no cohesion and capable of being run out of the gym by anyone on the road. At least I'm not wasting my weeknights and weekends trekking to the RAC 16 or 17 times like a damn fool.
 

bac2therac

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It's not just losing, it's falling behind by 20 points in every effing game.

I dont know if my memory is failing but I think last year a few of those losses on the road we got down big and rallied late...Iowa? OSU? PSU? and then two years ago remember PSU at home down 20 at half....something is off with the focus of this team in a good amount of games
 
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bac2therac

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I have been killed for saying it but JY is a selfish, out of control player MOST of the time. The bad far out ways the good. Him and Caleb on the bench and this team jelled again. Just my two cents

see my other thread, I agree with you and think we need to go back to basics. i think JY can still be a huge part of our plan but I think we fell in love with him too much
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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D wasn’t fixed. It was one game and then back to getting out worked.

our captains are soft on the defensive end. Tough to have an identity of a good rebounding team, good defensive team, and a team that will outwork you when the guys that have a C on their jersey are lazy/unengaged on the defensive end. Can’t have a 4 unwilling to go in and get a rebound, take a charge or battle someone at the rim.
 

Night Man

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I have no effing idea what to do with this roster if I'm Pike (I also get paid what, $3 million less than he does to have an answer to that question, so). But having Myles on the bench late is probably the difference between this being a 1 possession game and a 2-3 possession game. That's almost a footnote though given the shellacking they took from a winless team for 3/4 of the game. It looked like they tried to take away the 3 in the 1st half and were surprised to see PSU work somewhat comfortably and efficiently within the arc. I know 3s are an efficient use of possessions and there's always that risk that they just come out hot and torch you, but it's still basketball and you can't give up so many easy 2s.
 
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RW90

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This is exactly the same team I've been watching here for 30 years. Play a good game here or there, maybe get a nice upset over a ranked team, have one or two guys who can get hot but can't count on them to be there every game, and a bunch of undisciplined guys that can't pick up the slack when your best guy is struggling. We have been playing some of the ugliest basketball I can remember in a long, long time. Reminds of the mid-90s Wenzel teams. Some good athletes but no cohesion and capable of being run out of the gym by anyone on the road. At least I'm not wasting my weeknights and weekends trekking to the RAC 16 or 17 times like a damn fool.
But that's the thing. This same roster was actually playing like a top 10 team at one time. Was it teams abandoning zone, injuries, rotation, clubhouse issues? How to go from being mentioned as a final four team to PSU's first conference win within the span of about one month is inexplicable.
 
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fluoxetine

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a bad Penn State team. And please save your comments that Penn State is top 50 in the NET...they are likely the 2nd worst team in the league so I want to shut down any shill talk about ooh they beat Virginia tech.
Look..

Penn State is not that bad. The bottom line is they are #40 in Torvik and #47 KenPom. That's a decent team. If this game came not in the middle of an epic free fall it would not be a big deal.

That being said, there are expectations now, and one of those expectations is to PLAY SOME MOTHER****ING DEFENSE AND REBOUND THE BALL. I am willing to put up with offensive futility when the team plays hard and those fundamentals are there. We were better defensively in 2017-18 for ****'s sake, this shit is just not acceptable.
 

kcg88

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I remember when Rutgers was the team that dominated the glass (37.5 OR%, 80% DR% for Penn State today) and found things that worked (58.3 2P% for PSU) to win despite bad shooting (31.6% 3P% and 62.5% FT% for PSU).
 
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Greene Rice FIG

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Look..

Penn State is not that bad. The bottom line is they are #40 in Torvik and #47 KenPom. That's a decent team. If this game came not in the middle of an epic free fall it would not be a big deal.

That being said, there are expectations now, and one of those expectations is to PLAY SOME MOTHER****ING DEFENSE AND REBOUND THE BALL. I am willing to put up with offensive futility when the team plays hard and those fundamentals are there. We were better defensively in 2017-18 for ****'s sake, this shit is just not acceptable.
1 million percent
 
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kcg88

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D wasn’t fixed. It was one game and then back to getting out worked.

our captains are soft on the defensive end. Tough to have an identity of a good rebounding team, good defensive team, and a team that will outwork you when the guys that have a C on their jersey are lazy/unengaged on the defensive end. Can’t have a 4 unwilling to go in and get a rebound, take a charge or battle someone at the rim.
Wisconsin was broken (see: blown out three days before playing us), that game had nothing to do with us.
 

RUsojo

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I dont know if my memory is failing but I think last year a few of those losses on the road we got down big and rallied late...Iowa? OSU? PSU? and then two years ago remember PSU at home down 20 at half....something is off with the focus of this team in a good amount of games
PSU last year we got down early than made a comeback but didn’t finish it off but it was lead by Young Mathis Geo lineup which Pike leaned on down the stretch of the season as they made their run. Can’t remember the OSU game. Iowa game was the officials first half/second half flip flop lost a close one.

Geo is just not giving the offense he did last year that made up for his D.
 

kyk1827

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Heres my view. I feel bad because pike is such a nice guy, he really is. Hes just not cut out for this. Hes a coach stuck in 1980’s/1990’s basketball and its 2021. He doesnt embrace analytics, doesnt embrace efficiency, hes very old school. I know some love that, but old school isnt winning games these days. He’ll always have us competitive but our ceiling is sooooo low with him. Hes gonna get at least 2 more years but if he doesnt make the tourney 2022-2023, hes gotta go, right?
 

kcg88

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Heres my view. I feel bad because pike is such a nice guy, he really is. Hes just not cut out for this. Hes a coach stuck in 1980’s/1990’s basketball and its 2021. He doesnt embrace analytics, doesnt embrace efficiency, hes very old school. I know some love that, but old school isnt winning games these days. He’ll always have us competitive but our ceiling is sooooo low with him. Hes gonna get at least 2 more years but if he doesnt make the tourney 2022-2023, hes gotta go, right?
Yeah, look at Nate Oats who turned Alabama around in a year. Playing like the #50 team in the country at a Big Ten school close to NY/Philly with a new practice facility should be the base expectation. The further we go, the less credit Pikiell gets for merely NOT being an embarrassment like Hill, Rice, or Jordan.
 

bac2therac

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Look..

Penn State is not that bad. The bottom line is they are #40 in Torvik and #47 KenPom. That's a decent team. If this game came not in the middle of an epic free fall it would not be a big deal.

That being said, there are expectations now, and one of those expectations is to PLAY SOME MOTHER****ING DEFENSE AND REBOUND THE BALL. I am willing to put up with offensive futility when the team plays hard and those fundamentals are there. We were better defensively in 2017-18 for ****'s sake, this shit is just not acceptable.

I dont care where they are ranked in some stupid system where they only played 8 games and were ranked ahead of RU despite only one win of note. They are not good and no one can dispute they are a 13th place team in this league
 
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bac2therac

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Yeah, look at Nate Oats who turned Alabama around in a year. Playing like the #50 team in the country at a Big Ten school close to NY/Philly with a new practice facility should be the base expectation. The further we go, the less credit Pikiell gets for merely NOT being an embarrassment like Hill, Rice, or Jordan.

the issue will be recruiting. Excited for Jaden but its pretty feeble right now besides. So we have Cliff and Jaden but what else.....scary actually
 

fluoxetine

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I dont care where they are ranked in some stupid system where they only played 8 games and were ranked ahead of RU despite only one win of note. They are not good and no one can dispute they are a 13th place team in this league
How many wins of note does Rutgers have? (1 is the answer)

I don't know what to tell you, but the analytics are better at ranking basketball teams than you are.
 

fluoxetine

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That being said i will grant you that those analytics suggested PSU should have been favored tonight and they were not. And Pinnacle Sports line > analytics > you at the team ranking, so you might be on to something.
 

bac2therac

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How many wins of note does Rutgers have? (1 is the answer)

I don't know what to tell you, but the analytics are better at ranking basketball teams than you are.

Penn State came in playing 9 totals games with 3 wins...analytics are meaningless

RU beat Illinois and Purdue who are tourney teams and actually Maryland/Cuse sit on the bubble according to Lunardi as bad as they have been
 

MCKnight2004

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Did not deserve to win the game but Pike didn’t help with his poor decision of pulling Myles in second half at the 4;45 mark. Cliff in two minutes was abused on defense and he doesn’t box out or rebound, leading to six straight points for PSU. His teammates all gave him a look as he was out of position on a simple high pick and roll leading to the regained PSU six point lead. He is a project player, relies on his length and athleticism, not basketball IQ or instinct. He can’t be in down the stretch of a two possession game right now
 

kcg88

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Pike not recruiting a 4 is a GIGANTIC BLUNDER..it seems as if many just gave him a pass for that
Not noticing how important Yeboah was and not trying to replace that was a massive error. We didn't even TRY to hit the transfer portal. Or if he thought Mag/Palmquist could replace him, then that's a massive error in talent judgment.
 

MCKnight2004

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And please stop throwing the crazy lob passes to him. He is not Zion Williamson, he doesn’t catch and finish lobs at the basket. Tonight there was one tossed to cliff by Geo, poor decision! in The wisconsin game there must have been four lobs like that from various teammates, And he didn’t finish one! Cliff isn’t playing in high school against 6 footers anymore !
 

bac2therac

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everyone wants to say give them time but if you have a hole there then they are expected to play right away.

This is the Big 10, look Cliff is solid but not a key component but other schools are having impact freshmen come in as key cogs. We will have one next year but the whiff is glaring right now. 3 schollies on reach players
 

Scarlet Shack

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Pike not recruiting a 4 is a GIGANTIC BLUNDER..it seems as if many just gave him a pass for that
yes and no. The problem is that Harper isn’t playing like a four right now...he is playing like a three. The guy was getting 6-7 good boards a game last year and it seems like the number of good boards is way off this year...playing smaller

if Ron was playing bigger ...he would be the28 mpg four

I am finding a much bigger problem ...we arent getting any Nearly enough scoring from the Two and three spots again now that Mathis is in a funk. We got enough scoring tonight from young and geo when he was the point guard...got enough from Harper, Johnson and cliff at the four and five

I think if you look closely at our losing streak ...the biggest correlation is the lack of offense from the 2 and 3 spot has dropped waaaay off

Jaden jones can’t develop soon enough
 
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biazza38

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I’ve been a Pike fan since day one, especially with the way the team played last year. The last two recruiting classes have been very telling. No disrespect to the players, but you have two many reaches in the 2020 class and he brought in one player for 2019. That’s puzzling...
Onto tonight’s game. I only watched the last four minutes of tonight’s game and it made me want to throw my tv out the window. The non rebound after the missed free throw and the missed rebound that lead to the kick out 3 for PSU were dreadful. I’d rather lose 20 straight games the way we lost to Iowa two years off the side bank than see that type of putrid effort ever again.
 

Night Man

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Penn State came in playing 9 totals games with 3 wins...analytics are meaningless

RU beat Illinois and Purdue who are tourney teams and actually Maryland/Cuse sit on the bubble according to Lunardi as bad as they have been
Does this mean we may benefit from a weak bubble yet again? (well, not that we technically did last year either, but, yknow)
 

kcg88

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A big... no, a HUGE part of Pikiell's success was in getting his guys to try harder than the other team. Remember his first year when we beat Ohio State in the Big Ten tournament? It was because our guys wanted to be there and theirs didn't. We beat Maryland at home late last year because their guys were coasting but our guys were hungry coming off a 3-game losing streak.

This advantage has completely disappeared.
 

bac2therac

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we were still in the 8/9 game today, this loss probably puts us on the last 4 in line or out grouping...so while we are slashing our throats tonight, we are still in the field, however nothing less than 9-11 gets us in and its likely were are 3-7 after Sunday
 

Mr Magoo

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the issue will be recruiting. Excited for Jaden but its pretty feeble right now besides. So we have Cliff and Jaden but what else.....scary actually
yup. Last year’s class was an absolute disaster until he got Cliff. Then, he won’t take transfers so it’s a recipe for disaster. In reality, tonight’s game was a matchup of the probably the two weakest coaches in the league and we lost.
 
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Scarlet Shack

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we were still in the 8/9 game today, this loss probably puts us on the last 4 in line or out grouping...so while we are slashing our throats tonight, we are still in the field, however nothing less than 9-11 gets us in and its likely were are 3-7 after Sunday
ageee ...but I don’t see us getting to 9-11 without winning Sunday....not with road games at iowa, michigam and Minnesota