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Game 19 Ohio State: Brutal

bac2therac

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Not much needs to be recapped.

The team shit the bed. Team came out flat, I thought the effort and hustle was not up to standard and all the good things they did to battle adversity in the MSU game and have a shot to win they did the opposite tonight. OSU is so much more improved and well coached. I thought they looked vulnerable in the first 10 minutes but then turned the jets on and RU was simply overwhelmed. OSU went on a 40-9 run from the midway point of the first half to midway point of the 2nd half. Folks, OSU is good but they are not 40-9 over 20 minutes on the road good. RU had the wheels come off in perhaps the worst 20 minutes ever under Pikiell.

I think Mensah actually played decent and gave pretty good effort.

Loss of Mike a major impact on a team with no leadership and even less offensive options, if he played it would not have made a difference but going forward I am more concerned about not having him in crunch time in close winnable games.

Riding the rollcoaster while we have a good coach but a team that is still the least talented in league and probably the worst shooting team in the league. If they do not give the full effort they will really really bad and thats what we had tonight and things snowballed. I know some will say they played hard but not me. They were dogging it late in the first half and into the 2nd half, some brutally bad defense and decision making on offense.

Kudos to crowd....7476 showed up, not loud because nothing to cheer for but shows the fanbase is willing and building again.

ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO BEAT IOWA.....Pike has to just erase this game from memory and motivate RU to beat Iowa which is one of the more winnable games on the schedule. No one is going to feel sorry for you in the Big 10 especially a team that also sits near the bottom of the standings and has generally looked awful all year. Iowa can shoot but they cannot play defense for a lick so RU cannot come with this same effort on offense and also Pike needs to start doing things to help this team on offense, what is being run now looks mechanical and very disjointed and there needs to be a conscience effort to get the ball to Thiam and Eugene more. RU is going to need to come out strong and make a statement and not let Iowa get comfortable jacking up 3s on the road.
 
Freeman had Zero rebounds. I mean Souf hustled and got 4 rebounds. Maybe Freeman is still sick, but we got nothing from him today.

Tough game, hope Mike comes back healthy quick and we can shake this one off.
 
We were stuck on 9 points forever but for a long time we held OSU to only 11. Then on consecutive possessions, first DeShawn then Corey dribbled into turnovers that led to 2 fastbreak buckets.

With a 6 pt lead at 15-9 the OSU guys, who up to that point were playing tight, now had loosened up a bit, and the rout was on. We essentially unlocked the floodgates for them on those two sloppy turnovers -- early turning point in the game imo.
 
Remember OSU blew out MSU. This team looks for real. Reminded me of FSU. They are a big team and seem to be getting better.

More upset with the offense rather than defense intensity.
Freeman was awful.

Gio looks like he got some mojo back. We shot free throws well.
We didn’t turn ball over.

Write this one off. Beat Iowa.
 
I did not see the game, but it is impossible to understand Freeman's stat line. 18 minutes; 1 for 12 shooting (which seems to defy the laws of physics), zero rebounds, zero assists; zero blocks; zero steals; one turnover; no free throws attempted. If correct, that might be the worst performance in the history of history. I'm going to need some heavy medication to make it through this season.
 
Maybe Freeman was still sick but this might have been his worst game at RU. He was 1-12 on shots with 0 rebounds. He also had at least 4 shots blocked. He shot a 3 air ball on our very first possession to open the game. He kept trying his spin moves and couldn't do anything against # 33 who dominated him. Hopefully he will show up vs Iowa.
 
Exactly what I was worried about and I stated in the last moving forward thread after last game. It is really hard to bring the level of intensity , hustle, defense , rebounding and heart that we brought for Wisconsinand Michigan State, especially the overtime heartbreaker. That mental edge was not there. Then our shooting , which was not good all year, was absolutely atrocious and we let our struggles on offense effect our defense especially after the first 10 minutes. Deshawn unfortunately laid an egg tonight, which really hurt, because we could have stayed in this longer and let the large RAC crowd make a difference, which it never had a chance to show off its stuff. He went 1-12, with no rebounds and no defense .
Another mental and emotional loss with Mike Williams showing up on crutches which just sucked. Losing any of the players that contribute like Mike does was a killer tonight and going forward.
Some Kudos to the guys when they got down 30 and they did not mail it in . Geo went on his own personal run and then Corey hit a few and Eugene was pulling rebounds. We cut it to 17 and the RAC was getting energized and Ohio State had to bring back 3 of their starters who were forced to play the rest of the way.

Going forward, Iowa is Big. However, Coach has to try to get the big guys on the block and at least try to get Duke, or Shaquille to make a drop step or a baby hook and maybe even play inside out and Geo, Issa, or Corey are waiting for the pass out. Our offense has been scouted and being pushed further away from the hoop and also later in the shot clock , which is not good for an already struggling offense. Duke also has to come off the bench. His getting 2 fouls in the first few minutes, hurts us and eliminates another scoring option. Let him sit for 5 and watch how the game is called and maybe he stays in the game longer. We are getting almost nothing from him offensively and on the backboards. Start Candido or Shaquille and then rotate the big men to keep them fresh. Issa has to step up even more now that Mike is out as well. He started putting the ball on the floor and driving but pullled up instead of keeping his dribble alive all the way to the basket. It will not be easy the rest of the way but I doubt we will come out flat like tonight either.
 
re: Thiam and Eugene I complete agree. They're sophs, they're the future, need to get them more involved the rest of this season. Now, is it on them? It it on the guards? it is on coaching?
 
Recap.

Got in my seat and saw Mike Williams on crutches.

End of story.

We all knew there are 3 or 4 guys that could not get hurt.

Now the question is what does Pikiell do about Freeman? The answer is not simple. This is complicated. My gut tells me there is no solution.
 
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We match up terribly with Iowa with Mike Williams. Without him it is so much worse.

I am expecting to be blown out Wednesday night. How do you attack a zone with our personnel
 
There’s no solution regarding Freeman. He is what he is. An undersized PF who struggles against tall front courts, but who usually provides energy and rebounding.

Hopefully Shaq Carter at 6-9 will present more of a threat in the post.
 
There’s no solution regarding Freeman. He is what he is. An undersized PF who struggles against tall front courts, but who usually provides energy and rebounding.

Hopefully Shaq Carter at 6-9 will present more of a threat in the post.

I am talking about how you deal with him.

Someone posted 4 things Pikiell said you had to do. Forgot exactly what they were. Freeman is not on the same page as everyone else.
 
I did not see the game, but it is impossible to understand Freeman's stat line. 18 minutes; 1 for 12 shooting (which seems to defy the laws of physics), zero rebounds, zero assists; zero blocks; zero steals; one turnover; no free throws attempted. If correct, that might be the worst performance in the history of history. I'm going to need some heavy medication to make it through this season.

As soon as he gets the ball the whole offense dies and he always takes the shot. Awful.
 
Not much needs to be recapped.

The team shit the bed. Team came out flat, I thought the effort and hustle was not up to standard and all the good things they did to battle adversity in the MSU game and have a shot to win they did the opposite tonight. OSU is so much more improved and well coached. I thought they looked vulnerable in the first 10 minutes but then turned the jets on and RU was simply overwhelmed. OSU went on a 40-9 run from the midway point of the first half to midway point of the 2nd half. Folks, OSU is good but they are not 40-9 over 20 minutes on the road good. RU had the wheels come off in perhaps the worst 20 minutes ever under Pikiell.

I think Mensah actually played decent and gave pretty good effort.

Loss of Mike a major impact on a team with no leadership and even less offensive options, if he played it would not have made a difference but going forward I am more concerned about not having him in crunch time in close winnable games.

Riding the rollcoaster while we have a good coach but a team that is still the least talented in league and probably the worst shooting team in the league. If they do not give the full effort they will really really bad and thats what we had tonight and things snowballed. I know some will say they played hard but not me. They were dogging it late in the first half and into the 2nd half, some brutally bad defense and decision making on offense.

Kudos to crowd....7476 showed up, not loud because nothing to cheer for but shows the fanbase is willing and building again.

ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO BEAT IOWA.....Pike has to just erase this game from memory and motivate RU to beat Iowa which is one of the more winnable games on the schedule. No one is going to feel sorry for you in the Big 10 especially a team that also sits near the bottom of the standings and has generally looked awful all year. Iowa can shoot but they cannot play defense for a lick so RU cannot come with this same effort on offense and also Pike needs to start doing things to help this team on offense, what is being run now looks mechanical and very disjointed and there needs to be a conscience effort to get the ball to Thiam and Eugene more. RU is going to need to come out strong and make a statement and not let Iowa get comfortable jacking up 3s on the road.
All great points, especially Mensah. He's not going to score points even though he has nice mechanics on his shot. He just doesn't finish. But he played tough as nails defense and actually ran the offense pretty well. I agree with Williams out we need to have Issa and Eugene get many more touches than they're getting now. And I think there was a reason Pikiell sat Freeman. Freeman just seems out of sorts and has been this entire year. Yes, he averages 12 points a game and grabs about eight rebounds a game, but he has not learned a lick about forcing up bad outside shots, and trying to dribble drive through two defenders. He misses far too many layups, and chippies, and he would serve the team better by settling for 10 foot jump shots which I believe he's good at.

We all know this team is jump shot impaired. I just hope the new kids coming in with Geo, Eugene, Issa (Corey if he stays), can shoot. I'm still looking for Doucure to learn to not foul so much. I've yet to see him have a complete offensive game. I've seen flashes of it and he has skills, but for a four star player, he hasn't shown enough scoring ability underneath to make a difference.

I know we don't want to talk about "must" wins, but in my view Iowa is a must win. We have to get off the snide here. We have played the most difficult B1G schedule compared to anyone in the league thus far. We need to hold serve against teams that are beatable and steal one game on the road.
 
Guys in all fairness somebody has to shoot the ball. Freeman is the only guy in the front court on this team who can get a shot off with the shot clock under 5 seconds.

Is he a great one ? No but he's better than the alternatives and has played several very good games against good teams.

He was up against a # 1 Draft choice today and as the previous poster stated he's an undersized 4 who would probably be better off as a 3 in a mid major league.

But he's what we have so don't make him the whipping boy for all that was wrong last night. There's plenty of that to go around.

He is a ton better than the Thiam kid--------not even close.
 
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If he has a bad shot needs to pass ball out, forces two many shots.
 
Guys in all fairness somebody has to shoot the ball. Freeman is the only guy in the front court on this team who can get a shot off with the shot clock under 5 seconds.

Is he a great one ? No but he's better than the alternatives and has played several very good games against good teams.

He was up against a # 1 Draft choice today and as the previous poster stated he's an undersized 4 who would probably be better off as a 3 in a mid major league.

But he's what we have so don't make him the whipping boy for all that was wrong last night. There's plenty of that to go around.

He is a ton better than the Thiam kid--------not even close.
Did you ever consider why Freeman can always get a shot off? Opposing teams are perfectly happy with letting him have open shots for good reason.
 
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Did you ever consider why Freeman can always get a shot off? Opposing teams are perfectly happy with letting him have open shots for good reason.

I think both of these views are probably accurate. Until a viable alternative develops we are left with Freeman taking shots that have a low probability of going in. Same with Corey when he gets the ball late in the shot clock with no other option than trying to create something on his own. We know Thiam struggles to create his own shots and EM is better collecting garbage around the basket or in transition but in a half court set we are either going to have to force some things inside or live with the well known deficiencies on the offensive end. Geo can make shots but defenses know he is one of few options and will guard him tightly. Doucore strikes me as someone who might be able to contribute more either down low or in a pick and pop but he needs to stay out of foul trouble to get more time on the floor. More important than ever that Pike run sets that allow different guys to get good looks.
 
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Agreed

One of this teams big problems is they don't have catch and shoot shooters and no big guy who's a threat to throw it into that collapses a defense.
 
Agreed

One of this teams big problems is they don't have catch and shoot shooters and no big guy who's a threat to throw it into that collapses a defense.
Agreed about the catch and shoot guys or lack thereof but I think Coach has to put Duke and Shaquille nd even Sa on the block and let them make a move, a drop step, a little jump hook. Freeman is not the only guy that should be doing it plus the centers are taller and might not get their shot blocked. Plus they are more willing to pass it out to any of our guys to shoot
 
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With Mensah instead of Williams on the court, the defense sags in the lane and our already incompetent offense becomes even worse.

Mensah’s defficiency is much greater than his inability to shoot. It’s exponential because the entire team offense suffers. It becomes 4 on 5 and the defense gets an extra defender to clog the lane. That’s a big deal.

He played more yesterday and people are saying he played a good game (for him).

However, just glance a what the team did as a whole, and there is a bigger problem.

Don’t get me wrong, Mensah is not the reason this team struggled, but people underestimate the negative impact he has on a game.

A D1 player must at least be a threat.
 
Not much needs to be recapped.

The team shit the bed. Team came out flat, I thought the effort and hustle was not up to standard and all the good things they did to battle adversity in the MSU game and have a shot to win they did the opposite tonight. OSU is so much more improved and well coached. I thought they looked vulnerable in the first 10 minutes but then turned the jets on and RU was simply overwhelmed. OSU went on a 40-9 run from the midway point of the first half to midway point of the 2nd half. Folks, OSU is good but they are not 40-9 over 20 minutes on the road good. RU had the wheels come off in perhaps the worst 20 minutes ever under Pikiell.

I think Mensah actually played decent and gave pretty good effort.

Loss of Mike a major impact on a team with no leadership and even less offensive options, if he played it would not have made a difference but going forward I am more concerned about not having him in crunch time in close winnable games.

Riding the rollcoaster while we have a good coach but a team that is still the least talented in league and probably the worst shooting team in the league. If they do not give the full effort they will really really bad and thats what we had tonight and things snowballed. I know some will say they played hard but not me. They were dogging it late in the first half and into the 2nd half, some brutally bad defense and decision making on offense.

Kudos to crowd....7476 showed up, not loud because nothing to cheer for but shows the fanbase is willing and building again.

ITS VERY IMPORTANT TO BEAT IOWA.....Pike has to just erase this game from memory and motivate RU to beat Iowa which is one of the more winnable games on the schedule. No one is going to feel sorry for you in the Big 10 especially a team that also sits near the bottom of the standings and has generally looked awful all year. Iowa can shoot but they cannot play defense for a lick so RU cannot come with this same effort on offense and also Pike needs to start doing things to help this team on offense, what is being run now looks mechanical and very disjointed and there needs to be a conscience effort to get the ball to Thiam and Eugene more. RU is going to need to come out strong and make a statement and not let Iowa get comfortable jacking up 3s on the road.
While its only January 15,2018 Rutgers has already reached the crossroads period of the schedule with a winning season on the line.Williams injury obviously hinders backcourt depth and offensive scoring.Baker's slow starts in games really puts Rutgers offense in a dangerous position because there are so few scoring threats on the team.

The offensive flow is the same old pattern of dribbling outside from one side of the court to the other with very little evidence of picks or screens to free a player for a open jump shot or a drive to the basket.In contrast Ohio State had crisp ball movement which resulted in layups and wide open jump shots.Yes,they have far more talented players which make execution easier.In Rutgers case they have very few players that can create their own shot off the dribble which means a offensive system must be in place to assist players to score .
 
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While its only January 15,2018 Rutgers has already reached the crossroads period of the schedule with a winning season on the line.Williams injury obviously hinders backcourt depth and offensive scoring.Baker's slow starts in games really puts Rutgers offense in a dangerous position because there are so few scoring threats on the team.

The offensive flow is the same old pattern of dribbling outside from one side of the court to the other with very little evidence of picks or screens to free a player for a open jump shot or a drive to the basket.In contrast Ohio State had crisp ball movement which resulted in layups and wide open jump shots.Yes,they have far more talented players which make execution easier.In Rutgers case they have very few players that can create their own shot off the dribble which means a offensive system must be in place to assist players to score .


agree...Pike has to do a better job of getting set shots. I do not like how the offense is running right now, alot of dribbling and passing, running out the clock and then a high degree of difficulty shot is hoisted. The center spot is a black hole for Rutgers right now because we are basically getting nothing out of it and Doucoure was forced into that role and it has not worked out at all.
 
More important than ever that Pike run sets that allow different guys to get good looks.

This is the key. Right now we isolate DeShawn and Corey too much, and we're left thinking that those are the only two guys who can score. That's just not true.

Geo and Eugene continuously create their own shots with decent success, and while Doucore and Thiam lack confidence to create for themselves, they're both very capable shooters. Even Sa has shown flashes.

I love Pike but there's no way DeShawn should take 12 shots in 18 minutes against bigger and better players. Think of that awesome bounce-pass assist Shaq had last night. That's what Freeman should be looking to do more, and it's up to Pike to get him to do it.
 
Osu was the best shooting team i have ever seen at the rac. Were they not? Id much prefer to see Omoyuri drive more. Also, Baker bribg it up. Still had a lot of fun.
 
Really every game boils down to the same formula for us to win. Defensive intensity and either Corey, Deshawn, or CJ playing out of there mind offensively. We are a one trick pony on offense with absolutely no shooters. Either Corey breaks down the defense and scores or Deshawn/CJ grabs a rebound and scores.

There is no need to break down each individual game at this point because this is our formula that most teams in the B1G will stop 75% of the time.

I give Pike all the credit in the world for the rebounded and stifling D he has brought but he has so far failed miserably in bringing in a single shooter. Next year may be different but please no one mention Kiss as 3 point shooting threat because he's not. Also this game magnified that in back to back classes Pike brought in a guard that is useless.
 
This is the key. Right now we isolate DeShawn and Corey too much, and we're left thinking that those are the only two guys who can score. That's just not true.

Geo and Eugene continuously create their own shots with decent success, and while Doucore and Thiam lack confidence to create for themselves, they're both very capable shooters. Even Sa has shown flashes.

I love Pike but there's no way DeShawn should take 12 shots in 18 minutes against bigger and better players. Think of that awesome bounce-pass assist Shaq had last night. That's what Freeman should be looking to do more, and it's up to Pike to get him to do it.

Yes. YES. YESSS!!!!! I can’t like this post enough. Good job, Billy.
 
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Mike Williams was the catch and shoot (and miss too much) player on the team.



I noticed when he is/was in the game, Corey has the ball and keeps it until its time for him to either drive or shoot it himself, while Williams is buried in a corner, or Deshawn goes into his herky jerky and it either gets blocked or a bad three while Williams is next to him or he is buried in the corner. He doesnt have the legs when he finally gets it, no one will be a shooter when theyre guarding players 2''+ or lbs+ and plays as hard as Williams, get him his shots early and see what happens. Now we're going to see how Corey, Deshawn etals get rebs, and does the other intangibles Williams does. I see we lost by 20+ Williams could have score 9 or10 and maybe grabbed 5-8 rebs and we may have lost by single digits or maybe won. He is heart and soul. If I'm a coach and schemed a plan, let Corey and Deshawn play ''Hero.''
 
Some valid points here but the skill level of the players is wisely masked by the staff....by rebounding and defense.

There are 2 players that can generate their own shot off the dribble to drive and or shoot from beyond the paint....Eugene can drive but only to score or set shoot...Freeman can drive, but has the same limitations without a jump shot. Candido Shaq, Doucoure all are reliant on others to make crisp passes for them to score.

The only steps of progress made byThiam, has been added with a couple of dribbles towards a driving layup or to create space.

There really isn't a lot to complain about because if you ask players to dribble and generate offense outside of a comfort zone, you would have no shot attempts and no 2nd chances on offensive rebounds. There would be double the turnovers and dunks by opponents....RU had FIVE turnovers in 40 minutes, which has to be close to a season low.

It is what we have but until the skill level of the players that can create their own shot increases, it's impossible to judge what's there. As much as Baker has been thrown to the deep end of the pool, I'm certain that Kiss, Mathis, Harper and Carter will make him a better player because they all can at least make a couple of dribbles, pass and generate their own shot.

If you add an Aundre Hyatt, a Valdir Manuel to help with Doucoure and go to 2019 with a swiss-army knife of a Paul Mulcahy that plays all 3 levels of offense (dribble, pass, score), the entire feel for how we play changes.

When you are looking to minimize turnovers and cheap baskets, this is the way you have to play...keep it close and make some shots...it's what the roster gives you...
 
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Agreed Hawk there were times I looked at the line up out there last night and I just said OMG we have at most 1 person who can score. Like you said til we get better offensive players we are what we are. We will steal some games because of our defense and a hot shooting night on occasion.
 
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Souf probably had his best game of the year... following on the last two games, which may have been his best prior to that. I'm hoping he's starting to settle down and get more comfortable, and that maybe he just took far longer to acclimate to the speed of the Div-I game.

Looking at his last three games, he's averaging 10 min, 0.3 pts, 1.7 rb, 0.7 ast, 0 TO, and 0.7 pf. The biggest thing that stands out to me are the improvements in fouls and turnovers. Prior to last game, he'd been averaging 1 TO and 2 PF per 10 min against Div I opponents.

He was also playing good on-ball defense without fouling, diving for loose balls, and showing a lot more overall confidence than he had. All positive signs.

Really hoping this trend continues, especially in light of Williams being out for an extended period.
 
Gotta believe that Souf will not only play more, with Mike out, but will be encouraged by the coaches to drive and dish and occasionally pop the pull up jumper in the lane. He has a decent looking shot with good rotation on the ball. A few makes to boost his confidence and he can be serviceable on O while bringing tough D.
 
With Mensah instead of Williams on the court, the defense sags in the lane and our already incompetent offense becomes even worse.

Mensah’s defficiency is much greater than his inability to shoot. It’s exponential because the entire team offense suffers. It becomes 4 on 5 and the defense gets an extra defender to clog the lane. That’s a big deal.

He played more yesterday and people are saying he played a good game (for him).

However, just glance a what the team did as a whole, and there is a bigger problem.

Don’t get me wrong, Mensah is not the reason this team struggled, but people underestimate the negative impact he has on a game.

A D1 player must at least be a threat.

Are there some stats that show that the Rutgers offense struggles when this guy is at PG for those 8 mins per game because I have not noticed this negative impact. Actually, you could probably make a case of seeing better ball movement and better shot selection. Of course he does not shoot, which is an issue.

Which one is it:

1. Does Rutgers lose its leads when Souf comes in the game?

2. Does the opponent get or extend its lead when Souf comes in the game?
 
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Are there some stats that show that the Rutgers offense struggles when this guy is at PG for those 8 mins per game because I have not noticed this negative impact. Actually, you could probably make a case of seeing better ball movement and better shot selection. Of course he does not shoot, which is an issue.

Which one is it:

1. Does Rutgers lose its leads when Souf comes in the game?

2. Does the opponent get or extend its lead when Souf comes in the game?


We had a few games early in the year when Souf came in for Sanders we saw leads evaporate and/or deficits balloon.

If games are in question teams will expose Souf's lack of ball handling by putting pressure on him and force sanders back in the game. In addition, this team without williams, needs more than a PG who will look for the open man. Geo Baker is the ONLY threat from 3 point land. our PG has to be able to break a defense down and score or penetrate and dish.

The Mike Williams injury is a crusher.
 
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Have to put me in the "someone has to shoot it camp". Who on the roster do we want putting up shots? Freeman has laid some eggs (like the OSU game ) in the past but he still has at least shown that he CAN make some shots. We have some players on the roster who simply have no ability to do so period. He isn't a sure thing by any means, but Freeman is still a better option than most.
 
Have to put me in the "someone has to shoot it camp". Who on the roster do we want putting up shots? Freeman has laid some eggs (like the OSU game ) in the past but he still has at least shown that he CAN make some shots. We have some players on the roster who simply have no ability to do so period. He isn't a sure thing by any means, but Freeman is still a better option than most.

Thiam and Omoruyi. They're more than halfway through their sophomore seasons, it's time to see if they can take on a bigger scoring load.
 
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