Cleveland State against the school that claims it will build a $100M facility. Tonight in Newark.
Gotta be Gary's first game in NJ since his dpearture 9 years ago, no?
Gotta be Gary's first game in NJ since his dpearture 9 years ago, no?
Gary Waters, Cleveland State at NJIT tonight
- Thread starter Local Shill
- Start date
I'm guessing that Cleveland State and Coach Waters, on the advice of John Celestand, uses the RAC as it's practice facility before the NJIT game. On the advice of Bob Mulcahy, Cleveland State no doubt arrived a few days early to avoid any weather-related travel snafus.
NJIT now in 2nd round of NIT?
What has this world come to?
Who makes it to a D1 postseason 1st us or Caldwell College?
What has this world come to?
Who makes it to a D1 postseason 1st us or Caldwell College?
Imagine.....March 14th 2006. Rutgers gets done beating Penn State in the opening round of the NIT. Someone then tells you that NJIT will a D1 post season game before you. At the time NJIT wasn't playing D1 basketball!
Caldwell College is D2 so unless they move up to D1 I'm giving the nod to RU by a whisker on this one.
I really liked GW as a coach and thought he did a very good job here. His trouble was his apparent stubbornness to hire a top level recruiter to navigate the Tri State area. Once FHJ got here, Mulcahy already decided he was going to give Freddy boy the job.
imagine telling someone know RU fired a coach before the NIT team made the 2nd round and he had 3 NIT seasons, broke attendance records, had some of the most exciting games at the RAC and won 18 or more three times
It is an absolute joke! NJIT a D2 team at the time winning a tournament game before us isn't outlandish as looking back as letting go of Gary Waters for Fred Hill Jr. I want to trip Bob Mulcahy every time I see him at the RAC.
But had 2 of his 5 seasons losing ones and RU fans, at the time, were tired of waiting for a NCAA bid.
I know since Waters left the NIT looks good now, but it wasn't something RU MBB fans, at the time, felt
was good enough for them.
A 79-75 record for 5 years and a losing season every other year shouldn't be considered something to strive for, even now.
Waters went back to where his coaching ability and recruiting was best for him, being RU's MBB HC wasn't best for him or Rutgers.
There are programs that don't copnsider what Gary accomplished at RU a reason to give him another 5 years.
The choices after Waters is the only reason he looks good now.
Back then, many felt he didn't have RU MBB on the way up, just stagnate and wasn't a good recruiter.
except those schools then go out and have a coaching search and hire the best candidate, not a career assistant who may have been the worst big time head coach of all time
The people who rip Gary Waters underestimate how difficult it is to win over here. RU plays in a top conference with substandard facilities and a very little basketball tradition. Furthermore, the administration and athletic department see very little urgency in investing in the program (this is true in the past and the present). It would be extremely difficult for anyone aside from big-name coach to recruit and develop a program in this setting. No big name coach would come here with the small amount of institutional commitment at Rutgers for men's basketball.
The situation with GW was mishandled. I'm just glad that he is in a good situation at CSU, and I'll be pulling for him against NJIT.
The situation with GW was mishandled. I'm just glad that he is in a good situation at CSU, and I'll be pulling for him against NJIT.
The Pro Waters crowd ignores the fact that he went 10-19, 2-14 in Year 4 at RU. That season looked a lot like the 14-15 season we just finished. Many people on this board at the time agreed that he couldn't recruit to BE standards and had to go.
Freddie was the career assistant credited with bringing in the talent at Nova for Jay Wright and was well connected in the NY area. Who knew that he couldn't coach or run a program ?
Sorry Knightmoves, but you are way off. The 2004-2005 team is light years better than what we just witnessed this season. The team we had this season could not run a play other than the one where we hold the ball for 30 seconds and then panic by throwing up a crazy shot. We struggled to be competitive with almost everybody.
The 04-05 team took Cuse with Warrick and Mcnamara to the wire, and lost MANY other close games. But the biggest difference between the 2 teams.... Waters' teams ALWAYS gave 100% and played as a team. I honestly feel sometimes while watching our current squad that they just dont buy into what EJ is preaching.
The 04-05 team took Cuse with Warrick and Mcnamara to the wire, and lost MANY other close games. But the biggest difference between the 2 teams.... Waters' teams ALWAYS gave 100% and played as a team. I honestly feel sometimes while watching our current squad that they just dont buy into what EJ is preaching.
KM-
Freddie had been passed over for head coaching jobs at several lesser schools. Red flag, no? He is on the SHOE staff now. Any vibes about him replacing Willard? I don't think so! He cannot coach basketball, and he cannot manage his staff or his players.
Outside of that. he's fine.
Waters took an under-sized Cleveland State team that had one NBA player on it--Norris Cole-- to the NCAA's. He beat a very big Wake Forest team that had five future NBA players on it, all of them much better than Cole. The guy can coach.
Trouble is, he wasn't young-seeming like Schiano. He didn't seem dynamic, which was the perception of Schiano. He talked too much about God and making the team a family. He wasn't a control freak like Schiano--which fed into the perception that he wasn't dynamic, and that Schiano was. He wasn't the talker Schiano is. He wasn't from New Jersey. And the basketball board was bombarded by drive-by posters that have never seen the Rutgers board since. Plus we had an ethically-challenged AD. Add the cr*p storm on the boards to Mulcahy's faulty reasoning and missing ethics, and you get what happened. We fired a good man and a fine coach to get probably the worst coach of anything in RU's long history of athletics. And that's on Mulcahy.
TL
RUinFL,
So many inaccuracies in your post. Mulcahy was an ethically challenged AD ? Yikes. That's the first time I've heard that one. Welcome to the world of the redux race card. Wasn't Bob guilty of inflating CVS's salary, or maybe that doesn't count in your opinion ?
The Freddie can't Coach story ended at RU when Tim fired him years ago. Why would you mention him as a successor to Willard today at SHU ? No one else considers him as a viable candidate. Yet you bring it up, why ?
IMHO Your agenda precedes your logic in this post. My advice is that you should read the Sports Section more carefully in the future.
This post was edited on 3/23 8:09 PM by Knightmoves
So many inaccuracies in your post. Mulcahy was an ethically challenged AD ? Yikes. That's the first time I've heard that one. Welcome to the world of the redux race card. Wasn't Bob guilty of inflating CVS's salary, or maybe that doesn't count in your opinion ?
The Freddie can't Coach story ended at RU when Tim fired him years ago. Why would you mention him as a successor to Willard today at SHU ? No one else considers him as a viable candidate. Yet you bring it up, why ?
IMHO Your agenda precedes your logic in this post. My advice is that you should read the Sports Section more carefully in the future.
This post was edited on 3/23 8:09 PM by Knightmoves
Running Waters out wasn't the problem. It was what was done after that. Hired a weak head coach, still didn't invest in the program or facilities, and tried to do it on the cheap, which continues through today.
Has NJIT announced their new athletic center fundraising campaign yet? Now would be a good time to pass the hat.
The Fleisher Center at NJIT drew 1400 for this one tonite. The excitement and pageantry of CBB.
Fleisher Center at NJIT
Low expectations because of how Rutgers is now makes Waters seem like a HOF coach to some.
But back when Gary was the HC, RU fans expected more than Waters gave them.
What happened to RU MBB after Waters was forced to resign doesn't make his 5 years a good era, but the way RU
looks now has some thinking 79-75 in 5 years and 2 of them losing seasons , something to brag about.
Want a good program, don't hold up Waters time at RU as good years.
But back when Gary was the HC, RU fans expected more than Waters gave them.
What happened to RU MBB after Waters was forced to resign doesn't make his 5 years a good era, but the way RU
looks now has some thinking 79-75 in 5 years and 2 of them losing seasons , something to brag about.
Want a good program, don't hold up Waters time at RU as good years.
How does the NEC not invite NJIT.
The MAAC already said no......
Memo to NEC Commish: Invite them!!!!!
The MAAC already said no......
Memo to NEC Commish: Invite them!!!!!
Mentioned Freddie as possible coach at SHOE because a highly-knowledgeable Nova source told me that early in the season. He says not so much now, of course, but he said early on that if Willard faltered, FHJ would be the next man up. Sneer if you wish, but would trust that guy's level of info far more than yours since he was part of the Nova program.
Re Mulcahy, recognize he was just playing the old academic politics game. Nonetheless, he gave two successive coaches--KB and GW--lengthy extensions, and then had buyer's remorse. Planted a mole on Bannon's staff (a former UC assistant whose name you, of course, will recall) to gather dirt on Bannon so he could weasel out of the contract by firing him for cause, promising the mole a shot at the HC job. Then when he thought Ohio State was going to offer GW after the run to the finals of the NIT, he panicked and gave GW a big extension; had buyer's remorse; and used the pretext of Snowgate to try and weasel out of GW's contract by firing him for cause. Neither ploy worked, of course, but I ask you, are those the actions of an ethical man? Note, not morally challenged, but ethically challenged. Give two successive coaches big contracts and try to weasel out of paying them what they are due? Yeah, lots of you people revere Mulcahy because of the Schiano hire and stadium upgrade, but to me, he is sleazy. And he hired FHJ, who anyone with a lick of sense would look at and say, why was this recruiting genius passed over by lesser schools? Makes me feel uncomfortable to have people like that associated with my school.
TL
RUinFL,
OK some decent points here. As far as SHU hiring Freddie as Willards replacement how would a Nova guy know that when no one from SHU would ever dream of making Kung Fu Freddie their next HC ? You blame Mulcahy for hiring Freddie as HC at RU and now that he has failed miserably you think that SHU now likes him and thinks he's HC material ? That one makes no sense. BTW many people on this Board likedthe FH hiring at RU. He was the guy who could recruit top players, unlike Gary Waters who struggled with local recruiting.
You are correct about some of the moves Mulcahy made by inserting assistants onto KB and GW staffs. Bannons early success at RU warranted the extension but then his behavior went off the rails and he needed to be terminated. Give Bob credit for showing up for practice to prove that Bannon was making a habit of arriving late for team practices as the HC. Apparently Tim didn't pay as much attention to Mike Rice's practices when he was AD.
Bob decided that Waters had to go when he went 10-19, 2-14 in Year 4 at RU. That was a brutal season four years into his tenure. Even though year 5 was much better I believe that the decision was already made and Freddie was hired as an assistant for Waters last season. Waters lost 2/3's of his BE games over a 5 year period so he wasn't as successful as some like to think.
Although I'm a big Mulcahy fan and was on a first name basis with him while he was AD the one coaching move he made that I detested is when he extended Terry Shea after uttering those famous words, " The man can coach." At least he followed up that snafu by hiring Greg and getting him the resources he needed to be successful. That probably makes Bob the best AD that RU has ever had.
OK some decent points here. As far as SHU hiring Freddie as Willards replacement how would a Nova guy know that when no one from SHU would ever dream of making Kung Fu Freddie their next HC ? You blame Mulcahy for hiring Freddie as HC at RU and now that he has failed miserably you think that SHU now likes him and thinks he's HC material ? That one makes no sense. BTW many people on this Board likedthe FH hiring at RU. He was the guy who could recruit top players, unlike Gary Waters who struggled with local recruiting.
You are correct about some of the moves Mulcahy made by inserting assistants onto KB and GW staffs. Bannons early success at RU warranted the extension but then his behavior went off the rails and he needed to be terminated. Give Bob credit for showing up for practice to prove that Bannon was making a habit of arriving late for team practices as the HC. Apparently Tim didn't pay as much attention to Mike Rice's practices when he was AD.
Bob decided that Waters had to go when he went 10-19, 2-14 in Year 4 at RU. That was a brutal season four years into his tenure. Even though year 5 was much better I believe that the decision was already made and Freddie was hired as an assistant for Waters last season. Waters lost 2/3's of his BE games over a 5 year period so he wasn't as successful as some like to think.
Although I'm a big Mulcahy fan and was on a first name basis with him while he was AD the one coaching move he made that I detested is when he extended Terry Shea after uttering those famous words, " The man can coach." At least he followed up that snafu by hiring Greg and getting him the resources he needed to be successful. That probably makes Bob the best AD that RU has ever had.
Hey Moves...sorry but Uncle Bob was atrocious with Bannon..not only did he know all his indiscretions but he gave him a vote of confidence in public at the Bannon Show after the strip free throw incident came out...and also the year prior when it was already known to him that Bannon had did that....Bob EXTENDED his contract.
Uncle Bob was a total train wreck when it came to managing the basketball program. We will not even go into his Villanova pep talk and tirade against the team later that day. I am sure you and the media would have run Julie out the door if she gave Pitino's team a pep talk or Nebraska before the football game.
and I would say that the board was not in unison on the Hill hiring...definitely 50/50 and I knew he was a turd from the get go
Uncle Bob was a total train wreck when it came to managing the basketball program. We will not even go into his Villanova pep talk and tirade against the team later that day. I am sure you and the media would have run Julie out the door if she gave Pitino's team a pep talk or Nebraska before the football game.
and I would say that the board was not in unison on the Hill hiring...definitely 50/50 and I knew he was a turd from the get go
When Hill Jr was hired as Waters assistant many RU fans seen the writing on the wall for Waters,
knowing Freddie was there to get the recruits Gary seemed incapable of getting and taking Waters place as HC .
A lot of RU fans wanted Gary gone after year 4 and seen Freddie as a good replacement.
In hindsight he wasn't, but with that same hindsight: Gary Waters wasn't a good fit at RUI and the MBB program
would be only a adequate one under him and not be the power RU fans, at the time, felt it could be with the right MBB HC.
What Mulcahy done is secondary, even though he hurt RU MBB with his football first leadership, because this Waters discussion should be about how he wasn't the right man for the job. The wrong ones that came after him are the only reason people look
on the Waters years with fondness.
He was better then them, but that's not saying much!
knowing Freddie was there to get the recruits Gary seemed incapable of getting and taking Waters place as HC .
A lot of RU fans wanted Gary gone after year 4 and seen Freddie as a good replacement.
In hindsight he wasn't, but with that same hindsight: Gary Waters wasn't a good fit at RUI and the MBB program
would be only a adequate one under him and not be the power RU fans, at the time, felt it could be with the right MBB HC.
What Mulcahy done is secondary, even though he hurt RU MBB with his football first leadership, because this Waters discussion should be about how he wasn't the right man for the job. The wrong ones that came after him are the only reason people look
on the Waters years with fondness.
He was better then them, but that's not saying much!
The knock on GW was he didn't have the firepower to recruit locally. Fast forward 10 years later many believe we should be spending our energy recruiting outside of NY/NJ metro area....
Agree with MADHAT1. Those that long for the Gary Waters days of RU BB only do so because of the wretched turn of events with the program since he left. He is at Cleveland State and losing to NJIT for a reason. He is a classic mid major HC. He just happens to be RU's best coach in some time. Then again, some long for the Kevin Bannon days at RU. Those days sucked as well for RU fans.
