Griffiths

SantaFeScarlet

All Conference
Gold Member
Aug 8, 2001
4,670
2,366
113
What actually is the issue with Pike's recruiting up to this point? Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Illinois, Indiana, and Purdue are getting better prospects but did people expect him to be competing with those teams on a regular basis because of a few good years? He's been pretty comparable or better than every other B1G team. Aside from maybe Maryland but the last few years have been pretty close.

Now going forward, I would agree that he needs to reel in a better ratio of highly rated players now that he's shown that he can win and the opportunity for early playing time is there.
You said it...needs to reel in a better ratio of highly rated players consistently. If he gets Griffiths that's an excellent start but he also needs to land a couple of other high caliber players, hopefully that are all so big and physical.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ScarletKid2008

mikemarc1

Hall of Famer
Nov 28, 2005
23,251
14,176
113
You said it...needs to reel in a better ratio of highly rated players consistently. If he gets Griffiths that's an excellent start but he also needs to land a couple of other high caliber players, hopefully that are all so big and physical.

why must he “need to” land higher profile players?

he’s done phenomenal with under the radar players. What’s changed?
 

SantaFeScarlet

All Conference
Gold Member
Aug 8, 2001
4,670
2,366
113
not sure I’m following you here.
For 4 years Pike has had Geo, RHJr and Caleb. They were the core nucleus of this program. He had 4 years to work with those guys. They are gone and leave a huge void that needs to be filled by high caliber players IMHO.
 

Scangg

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Mar 20, 2016
15,368
25,827
113
San Diego
why must he “need to” land higher profile players?

he’s done phenomenal with under the radar players. What’s changed?
Pike just needs to sprinkle in some studs to go with the gems and player development.

The model here is Wisconsin not Michigan

Look at Wisconsin recruiting rankings vs their B1G standings results. Some may be surprised Wisconsin isn't a roster of 4 star studs
 

mikemarc1

Hall of Famer
Nov 28, 2005
23,251
14,176
113
For 4 years Pike has had Geo, RHJr and Caleb. They were the core nucleus of this program. He had 4 years to work with those guys. They are gone and leave a huge void that needs to be filled by high caliber players IMHO.

and do you realize those 3 you just mentioned…the nucleus of our program…were under the radar, not highly ranked recruits? Think they each only had one other p5 offer.

we can recruit similarly ranked guys, develope them like we did those 3 and be a perennial NCAA Tourny team…

Pike doesn’t need highly rated recruits to succeed like you’ve been saying.
 

Scangg

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Mar 20, 2016
15,368
25,827
113
San Diego
and do you realize those were under the radar, not high recruits?

we can recruit similarly ranked guys, develope them like we did those 3 and be a perennial NCAA Tourny team…

Pike doesn’t need highly rated recruits to succeed like you’ve been saying.
Geo and Caleb were very lowly rated.

Harper ended up a 4 star despite many trying to pretend he wasn't for some reason
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scarlet83

SantaFeScarlet

All Conference
Gold Member
Aug 8, 2001
4,670
2,366
113
and do you realize those 3 you just mentioned…the nucleus of our program…were under the radar, not highly ranked recruits? Think they each only had one other p5 offer.

we can recruit similarly ranked guys, develope them like we did those 3 and be a perennial NCAA Tourny team…

Pike doesn’t need highly rated recruits to succeed like you’ve been saying.
And that was the type of player he needed to get at that time selling an unproven program. Many on this board rave about Pike and his team making the dance 2 years in a row and finshing fourth in the B1G this past season. With that improvment in the program should come an improvement in recruiting. There should be a direct correlation between improvement in the program and improvement in recruiting.
 

mikemarc1

Hall of Famer
Nov 28, 2005
23,251
14,176
113
And that was the type of player he needed to get at that time selling an unproven program. Many on this board rave about Pike and his team making the dance 2 years in a row and finshing fourth in the B1G this past season. With that improvment in the program should come an improvement in recruiting. There should be a direct correlation between improvement in the program and improvement in recruiting.

and isn’t locking up a top 35 player in nation (assuming we do) an improvement in recruiting?

he will be our highest rated recruit in history
 

SantaFeScarlet

All Conference
Gold Member
Aug 8, 2001
4,670
2,366
113
and isn’t locking up a top 35 player in nation (assuming we do) an improvement in recruiting?
Assuming we do absolutely. But 1 young excellent tall and thin player doesn't make a program. He needs to capitalize on Griffiths, making the Dance etc., and hit a grand slam if possible. I'm rooting for him like all of you.
 

mikemarc1

Hall of Famer
Nov 28, 2005
23,251
14,176
113
Assuming we do absolutely. But 1 young excellent tall and thin player doesn't make a program. He needs to capitalize on Griffiths and hit a grand slam if possible. I'm rooting for him like all of you.

again..I just disagree that he needs to. Hes been very successful without the highly ranked recruit in his career.

your definition of a “grand slam” seems to be a five star recruit. Mine and Pike’s seem to be an under recruited gem that turns out to be an all Big Ten or a Bog Ten POY.

so in that case, sure. He needs to hit a grand slam. He’s been hitting grand slams for a while
 

Eagleton96

All American
Jul 25, 2001
5,502
3,409
113
I'd love to see Pike recruit under the radar kids and go to the final four and prove the doubters and front runners wrong. If I could look into the future and pick that outcome, I'd do that.

Not being able to peer into the the future and pick my outcome, right now I'd like to see Pike stock the roster with recruits that we won in recruiting battles against Duke and Kentucky, or even even the next tier down, as that gives us the best chance to win.

A most likely scenario is that Pike gets some stars and role players and continues to build competitive teams. There will be up years and down years as various kids pan out or not. We won't see a huge jump in any one year. But we should be able to judge if the general trajectory is up or not every few years.

Regardless, there are many ways to win. And we should all have the capacity to distinguish between our preferred pathway, and things Pike " needs" to do. He doesn't "need" to do anything but win games.
 
Last edited:

Scangg

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Mar 20, 2016
15,368
25,827
113
San Diego
Griffiths is a top 30 player who is one of the best shooters in the nation. This is a grand slam. Cliff was a grand slam.

These same clowns would be ripping Wisconsin's recruiting year after year after year if they applied the same logic and all they do is win year after year after year
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Jan 11, 2007
19,825
26,299
113
It's amazing how the goalposts continue to get moved by some posters....and because I say that, it doesn't mean I'm some sort of Pike worshipper..

You can't say Geo, RHJ and Caleb are the core of this rebuild and leave out other 4* kids like Mathis, Jacob Young, Akwasi Yeboah, Jaden Jones, Aundre Hyatt, Cliff Omoyuri and Paul Mulcahy.....and then add in Derek Simpson who is pretty good.....that doesn't mean every recruit will pan out but this notion that recruiting is not good, is absurd.

Mathis, Mulcahy, Hyatt, RHJ, Cliff, Jacob Young, Jaden Jones and now Gavin Griffiths all had a 4* star rating by one of the major recruiting services and most had that status on Rivals....Yeboah was considered a 4* caliber pickup via the portal.

The insane goal that every recruiting commit has to be a 4 or 5* is a football recruiting measure, that is much more critical when you need depth, to account for injuries and your players have to stay 3 years. That does not apply to basketball in the exact same manner.

In basketball, the goal is to build depth, develop players into starters and bench players. That's why RU is now in the middle (5th through 9th) of a very competitive and good B1G.
 

mjjoyce51

Sophomore
Gold Member
Mar 30, 2012
319
299
63
37
Assuming we do absolutely. But 1 young excellent tall and thin player doesn't make a program. He needs to capitalize on Griffiths, making the Dance etc., and hit a grand slam if possible. I'm rooting for him like all of you.

I don't expect too many other top recruits for 2023 but 2024 will be interesting. There will likely be a good amount of scholarships available and if he can land Harper and fill the rest with mid/high level talent, then he can establish what he did in the 2017 and 2018 recruiting cycles only, ideally, with more talent to work with.
 

urbanecane

Senior
Jan 26, 2015
1,231
1,491
113
It's amazing how the goalposts continue to get moved by some posters....and because I say that, it doesn't mean I'm some sort of Pike worshipper..

You can't say Geo, RHJ and Caleb are the core of this rebuild and leave out other 4* kids like Mathis, Jacob Young, Akwasi Yeboah, Jaden Jones, Aundre Hyatt, Cliff Omoyuri and Paul Mulcahy.....and then add in Derek Simpson who is pretty good.....that doesn't mean every recruit will pan out but this notion that recruiting is not good, is absurd.

Mathis, Mulcahy, Hyatt, RHJ, Cliff, Jacob Young, Jaden Jones and now Gavin Griffiths all had a 4* star rating by one of the major recruiting services and most had that status on Rivals....Yeboah was considered a 4* caliber pickup via the portal.

The insane goal that every recruiting commit has to be a 4 or 5* is a football recruiting measure, that is much more critical when you need depth, to account for injuries and your players have to stay 3 years. That does not apply to basketball in the exact same manner.

In basketball, the goal is to build depth, develop players into starters and bench players. That's why RU is now in the middle (5th through 9th) of a very competitive and good B1G.

Up until (hopefully) tomorrow, it was more than fair to question why recruiting has taken a step in the wrong direction since the 2019 class. Not egregious, but still a step back. Cliff was a grand slam, but all other players in that time frame are major question marks. You cant tout Simpson all you want but he's still the #226 recruit in his class. Not exactly a can't miss prospect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SantaFeScarlet

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Jan 11, 2007
19,825
26,299
113
Up until (hopefully) tomorrow, it was more than fair to question why recruiting has taken a step in the wrong direction since the 2019 class. Not egregious, but still a step back. Cliff was a grand slam, but all other players in that time frame are major question marks. You cant tout Simpson all you want but he's still the #226 recruit in his class. Not exactly a can't miss prospect.

Around 70% of all B1G recruits are 3* or less. It's common sense to not be foolish enough to just look at a rating system that didn't evaluate 2022 kids, when there was no prior year AAU circuit. The ratings are far from perfect.
 

RUJMM78

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jul 26, 2001
21,920
7,289
113
and do you realize those 3 you just mentioned…the nucleus of our program…were under the radar, not highly ranked recruits? Think they each only had one other p5 offer.

we can recruit similarly ranked guys, develope them like we did those 3 and be a perennial NCAA Tourny team…

Pike doesn’t need highly rated recruits to succeed like you’ve been saying.
What is the expectation of fans based on current recruiting success:?I say a team that can be ranked in the 6-10 range most seasons in the Big Ten.They aren't talented enough to win league championships and win more than one game in the NCAA Tournament.The weakness is lack of shooters/scorers which means the team has a very small margin for error.It took two sensational three point shots by Harper to win games against Purdue and Indiana.For a program that was in hibernation for three decades Pikiell has done a outstanding job in making Rutgers relevant in college basketball.Pikiell does need highly rated rercruits to move closer to winning championships.Most fans are satisfied with just being a consistent NCAA Tournament participant because they know the elite programs dominate recruiting ,rankings,and winning championships.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rusty_Screw_88

Rhuarc

All Conference
Gold Member
Jul 25, 2001
4,465
3,793
113
why must he “need to” land higher profile players?

he’s done phenomenal with under the radar players. What’s changed?
I agree that when Santa Fe says "need to" that isn't the right word choice. However, his point is that higher rated players often lead to bigger results which I think is pretty accurate. If we want to truly be an annual top 3-4 team in the Big 10, having a top ranked recruit in every class is necessary, IMO.

Imagine an annual class with at least 1 top 50 kid with the skill set that Pike wants along with a couple of top 150 kids and some diamonds in the rough that pan out more than they don't? We'd be a deadly program.
 

Scarlet83

All American
Gold Member
Feb 4, 2004
7,426
6,919
113
Assuming we do absolutely. But 1 young excellent tall and thin player doesn't make a program. He needs to capitalize on Griffiths, making the Dance etc., and hit a grand slam if possible. I'm rooting for him like all of you.
What others are saying is there is more than one way to do this. Pike has a formula that works for his style of coaching, and Pike’s way is really working very well. Pike values players differently than you.

IMO, you will continue to be disappointed in Pike’s recruiting, even though the teams he constructs and develops will be top half of the B1G.
 
Last edited:

PiscatawayMike

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Jul 28, 2001
14,149
8,461
113
Scarlet Knight Country!
Griffiths is a top 30 player who is one of the best shooters in the nation. This is a grand slam. Cliff was a grand slam.

These same clowns would be ripping Wisconsin's recruiting year after year after year if they applied the same logic and all they do is win year after year after year
There were many clown Wiscy fans who wanted Gard to get the boot after one bad season... 15-18 in 2017-2018. Some fans are never content.
 

Loyal_2RU

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Aug 6, 2001
12,716
6,892
113
And that was the type of player he needed to get at that time selling an unproven program. Many on this board rave about Pike and his team making the dance 2 years in a row and finshing fourth in the B1G this past season. With that improvment in the program should come an improvement in recruiting. There should be a direct correlation between improvement in the program and improvement in recruiting.
Tell that to Tom Young. Rodney Duncan and the recently passed and dearly missed Todd Milligan.
 

Loyal_2RU

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Aug 6, 2001
12,716
6,892
113
I looked it up. Milligan scored 154 points in his career? Wow
Broke his hand in a dorm fight freshman year. Never out of the doghouse.

Great HS player at Rutgers Prep. Under Dick O'Connell.
 

wheezer

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jun 3, 2001
34,951
15,474
113
Broke his hand in a dorm fight freshman year. Never out of the doghouse.

Great HS player at Rutgers Prep. Under Dick O'Connell.
Trying to remember, I think Milligan was not even a starter for his high school team, he was first off the bench

Could be wrong

I liked Duncan because he was a good set up player for James, and not the disappointment Milligan was

Duncan did not stick around long
 

RUDiddy777

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Feb 26, 2015
26,145
30,678
113
why must he “need to” land higher profile players?

he’s done phenomenal with under the radar players. What’s changed?

Like in football, finding under the radar gems isn’t sustainable if you want to stay at the top of the conference over the long haul.

But no denying he’s done a great job of finding talent and coaching kids up. Skies the limit if he can coach up guys with even more base talent.
 

patk89

All American
Jul 25, 2001
5,973
1,923
113
Trying to remember, I think Milligan was not even a starter for his high school team, he was first off the bench

Could be wrong

I liked Duncan because he was a good set up player for James, and not the disappointment Milligan was

Duncan did not stick around long
I believe that was John Battle at his DC high school. Great career at RU and then on to the NBA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BossNJ and mugrat86

Scangg

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Mar 20, 2016
15,368
25,827
113
San Diego
Like in football, finding under the radar gems isn’t sustainable if you want to stay at the top of the conference over the long haul.

But no denying he’s done a great job of finding talent and coaching kids up. Skies the limit if he can coach up guys with even more base talent.
It's working for Wisconsin
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUDiddy777

wheezer

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Jun 3, 2001
34,951
15,474
113
I believe that was John Battle at his DC high school. Great career at RU and then on to the NBA.
John made one of the biggest leaps between first and second year here, I think it was.....

I still think Milligan was also a non-starter.....I remember our recruiting class falling apart when Young took the team overseas and Maryland took a couple of verbals away
(JoJo Hunter, etc) ....I don't think JoJo amounted to much anyway..
 
  • Like
Reactions: runrutgersrun