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Here's why it's getting harder for N.J. kids to get into Rutgers

Tango Two

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Admitting more out-of-state students boosts Rutgers' revenue and helps make up for sagging state funding from Trenton, McAnuff said. The percentage of the Rutgers' $4 billion budget that comes directly state funding has decreased to about 24 percent.

"We can't increase tuition very much, the economy being what it is," McAnuff said. "We probably will take more students from out-of-state or international."

That means it will likely be more difficult for New Jersey students to get into Rutgers.


http://www.nj.com/education/2017/10/heres_why_its_getting_harder_for_nj_kids_to_get_in.html
 
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This is a great story. Still last in the B1G in terms of OOS, but doubling it shows movement in the right direction. Finally!
 
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From a numbers perspective vs NJ population we probably admit more NJ students now than 20 yrs ago
 
Did NJ lift the cap on OOS or the tuition penalty to RU if OOS went over a certain percentage? Used to be like a 100% tax on any extra tuition income.
 
Did NJ lift the cap on OOS or the tuition penalty to RU if OOS went over a certain percentage? Used to be like a 100% tax on any extra tuition income.
The legislature had pulled back from that appropriation penalty for OOS enrollment.
 
The key for admitting more out of state students is increased slots at other in state schools. If RU New Brunswick can get to 66% in state vs 33% out of state or even to a 60/40 ratio it will lead to a better reputation since it will make the school very tough for instaters to get into. Politically though you need to make sure the lost Rutgers spots are added to other state schools so state residents have n in state more affordable choice.

many states have 2 big universities with 1 catering to out of staters:
- Michigan vs Michigan St
- Arizona vs Arizona St
- UNC vs NC St

Maybe it becomes:
- Rutgers vs Rowan or Montclair St or Kean
 
The key for admitting more out of state students is increased slots at other in state schools. If RU New Brunswick can get to 66% in state vs 33% out of state or even to a 60/40 ratio it will lead to a better reputation since it will make the school very tough for instaters to get into. Politically though you need to make sure the lost Rutgers spots are added to other state schools so state residents have n in state more affordable choice.

many states have 2 big universities with 1 catering to out of staters:
- Michigan vs Michigan St
- Arizona vs Arizona St
- UNC vs NC St

Maybe it becomes:
- Rutgers vs Rowan or Montclair St or Kean


would be a good long term overall strategy to have one of the high-potential state universities move up-scale - get bigger (enrollment & facility), get a bit better academically, and make their way to D1 This could create an instate major university option - and eventually sort of a rival
Rowan is probably the best possibility - geographically far enough away - and additional space easier to obtain
Montclair - good foundation - but situated in a more densely populated area with expensive real-estate making growth difficult
College of New Jersey - already has defined its niche
William Patterson - ? - probably has a longer road to travel
NJIT - would need a huge land acquisition & renewal & cooperation of many many people & institutions - total moon shot X2
 
If Rutgers wants to attract more out of state students it needs to develop some elite academic programs. Many Rutgers departments settle for "good enough". For example, we have the largest and most profitable pharmaceutical company in the world with its headquarters less than a football field away from Old Queens and yet our Pharmacy program isn't even top 10. While it is a very good program it needs to be elite and it SHOULD be elite. I can't understand why Rutgers doesn't have a better relationship with Johnson and Johnson.

We also need to beautify the campus, which the 2030 plan seems to be targeting.
 
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If Rutgers wants to attract more out of state students it needs to develop some elite academic programs. Many Rutgers departments settle for "good enough". For example, we have the largest and most profitable pharmaceutical company in the world with its headquarters less than a football field away from Old Queens and yet our Pharmacy program isn't even top 10. While it is a very good program it needs to be elite and it SHOULD be elite. I can't understand why Rutgers doesn't have a better relationship with Johnson and Johnson.

We also need to beautify the campus, which the 2030 plan seems to be targeting.

on the surface beautification will go a long way. A prospective out of state student may visit Rutgers and 3 other major state schools. Much of what is judged is the atmosphere. If they see the old dorms, older classrooms, and cluttered streets where cars can't park it may turn them away vs. a school which has done upgrades. Elite programs help but for a basic economics major or other major that provides basic specialized skills most schools educate to a similar level. Yes, engineering, pre med, pharma, and other specialized programs will make a difference.
 
From a numbers perspective vs NJ population we probably admit more NJ students now than 20 yrs ago
The key for admitting more out of state students is increased slots at other in state schools. If RU New Brunswick can get to 66% in state vs 33% out of state or even to a 60/40 ratio it will lead to a better reputation since it will make the school very tough for instaters to get into. Politically though you need to make sure the lost Rutgers spots are added to other state schools so state residents have n in state more affordable choice.

many states have 2 big universities with 1 catering to out of staters:
- Michigan vs Michigan St
- Arizona vs Arizona St
- UNC vs NC St

Maybe it becomes:
- Rutgers vs Rowan or Montclair St or Kean
would be a good long term overall strategy to have one of the high-potential state universities move up-scale - get bigger (enrollment & facility), get a bit better academically, and make their way to D1 This could create an instate major university option - and eventually sort of a rival
Rowan is probably the best possibility - geographically far enough away - and additional space easier to obtain
Montclair - good foundation - but situated in a more densely populated area with expensive real-estate making growth difficult
College of New Jersey - already has defined its niche
William Patterson - ? - probably has a longer road to travel
NJIT - would need a huge land acquisition & renewal & cooperation of many many people & institutions - total moon shot X2
If Rutgers wants to attract more out of state students it needs to develop some elite academic programs. Many Rutgers departments settle for "good enough". For example, we have the largest and most profitable pharmaceutical company in the world with its headquarters less than a football field away from Old Queens and yet our Pharmacy program isn't even top 10. While it is a very good program it needs to be elite and it SHOULD be elite. I can't understand why Rutgers doesn't have a better relationship with Johnson and Johnson.

We also need to beautify the campus, which the 2030 plan seems to be targeting.
on the surface beautification will go a long way. A prospective out of state student may visit Rutgers and 3 other major state schools. Much of what is judged is the atmosphere. If they see the old dorms, older classrooms, and cluttered streets where cars can't park it may turn them away vs. a school which has done upgrades. Elite programs help but for a basic economics major or other major that provides basic specialized skills most schools educate to a similar level. Yes, engineering, pre med, pharma, and other specialized programs will make a difference.
Sorry for the super multi-quote response but wanted touch base on all of these.

Having just been to the Engineering Open House on Columbus Day with our older son I have to say as an alum (of Rutgers, not Engineering) and NJ taxpayer I was very impressed with the kids and the dean they picked to lead the presentation. If you didn’t know much about Rutgers before visiting you left realizing you just visited a big time B1G school. When the Weeks building is finished it will go a long way to help pass the sights and smells test.

I was very surprised though to find out how few out of state and international students there were. The numbers quoted that day said a little over 3% in both. I don’t know why but for some reason I thought those numbers for Engineering would be higher.

We also took a visit to Rowan in September and to be honest I’m not sure Rowan is 100% sure what they want to be yet. You can see the growth and the room to grow but I got impression I was looking at a gangly teenager who still is figuring out his body, if that makes sense. We go back for their specific Engineering Open House in a few weeks.

I do think if done right Rowan could end being the “other” option in NJ as mentioned since as also mentioned TCNJ likes who they are already and are quite snooty about it. And bully for TCNJ as I really liked the attitude they projected when we visited. Engineering is kinda new at TCNJ but they seem to going about it the right way, their way. Which as we know works for them.
 
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I still just can't fathom how we don't take advantage of J&J. Our medical school is named after their founder for God's sakes. How the hell do we not have elite medical and pharmacy programs? Would it not be mutually beneficial for Rutgers and J&J? They can single handidly create and then recruit from elite programs.

If you want to attract out of staters, I can't think of a better way than creating a strong relationship with J&J.
 
Yes, engineering, pre med, pharma, and other specialized programs will make a difference.

Perhaps a common misperception but there is no such formal major or program known as "pre med" at least not at any institution of higher education to be taken seriously. It is only a prescribed set of course requirements for entrance to medical school which includes 1 year of biology, 1 year of chemistry, 1 year of organic chemistry, 1 year of calculus, 1 year of physics, and maybe 1-2 other courses. A garden variety art history or english literature major can go to medical school just as a biology or psychology major can....as long as they complete the above courses as part of completing a bachelor's degree in their chosen area of study.

So, to your point, it would have to be the academic/research prowess of certain faculty and departments (most likely in the hard sciences) which might sway high schoolers with medical school plans in their future to want to study under renown faculty and participate in research as undergraduates.
 
Sorry for the super multi-quote response but wanted touch base on all of these.

Having just been to the Engineering Open House on Columbus Day with our older son I have to say as an alum (of Rutgers, not Engineering) and NJ taxpayer I was very impressed with the kids and the dean they picked to lead the presentation. If you didn’t know much about Rutgers before visiting you left realizing you just visited a big time B1G school. When the Weeks building is finished it will go a long way to helps pass the sights and smells test.

I was very surprised though to find out how few out of state and international students there were. The numbers quoted that day said a little over 3% in both. I don’t know why but for some reason I thought those numbers for Engineering would be higher.

We also took a visit to Rowan in September and to be honest I’m not sure Rowan is 100% sure what they want to be yet. You can see the growth and the room to grow but I got impression I was looking at a gangly teenager who still is figuring out his body, if that makes sense. We go back for their specific Engineering Open House in a few weeks.

I do think if done right Rowan could end being the “other” option in NJ as mentioned since as also mentioned TCNJ likes who they are already and are quite snooty about it. And bully for TCNJ as I really liked the attitude they projected when we visited. Engineering is kinda new at TCNJ but they seem to going about it the right way, their way. Which as we know works for them.

As relative new kids on the block in terms of engineering education in NJ, both Rowan and CNJ (actually didn't even realize they started offering engineering degrees) are likely to pale in comparison to what Rutgers or NJIT can offer in terms of number of disciplines, research facilities, alumni network, perception, etc. Assuming going private (Princeton, Stevens) is not part of this discussion, if not Rutgers (1st) or NJIT (2nd), I would probably go out of state for engineering before staying in NJ at Rowan or CNJ.

As far as % international at Rutgers Engineering, the perception is often blown out of proportion. Many ethnically 'foreign-looking' undergrad students are not foreign/international at all, rather they are 2nd/3rd generation Americans but might be from cultures where a more practical/technical education is looked favorably upon for job/career prospects. Between the faculty and the graduate level (Masters & PhD students), there are a greater percentage of foreigners and that perception is further reinforced because more of these foreign grad students become teaching assistants who are required to interact more with undergrads than domestic grad students would.
 
Sorry for the super multi-quote response but wanted touch base on all of these.

Having just been to the Engineering Open House on Columbus Day with our older son I have to say as an alum (of Rutgers, not Engineering) and NJ taxpayer I was very impressed with the kids and the dean they picked to lead the presentation. If you didn’t know much about Rutgers before visiting you left realizing you just visited a big time B1G school. When the Weeks building is finished it will go a long way to helps pass the sights and smells test.

I was very surprised though to find out how few out of state and international students there were. The numbers quoted that day said a little over 3% in both. I don’t know why but for some reason I thought those numbers for Engineering would be higher.

We also took a visit to Rowan in September and to be honest I’m not sure Rowan is 100% sure what they want to be yet. You can see the growth and the room to grow but I got impression I was looking at a gangly teenager who still is figuring out his body, if that makes sense. We go back for their specific Engineering Open House in a few weeks.

I do think if done right Rowan could end being the “other” option in NJ as mentioned since as also mentioned TCNJ likes who they are already and are quite snooty about it. And bully for TCNJ as I really liked the attitude they projected when we visited. Engineering is kinda new at TCNJ but they seem to going about it the right way, their way. Which as we know works for them.

Options other than RU?! As long as he doesn't join the Cult in Central PA I guess we can let it slide. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
Options other than RU?! As long as he doesn't join the Cult in Central PA I guess we can let it slide. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

You will find a lot of kids that get wait listed at RU or just fall below the cut off from upper middle class families that go to the out of state schools like a PSU, Delaware, Rhode Island, Ohio St, Va Tech, etc...
 
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Different topic, but I'll post it here anyway. Sometimes it's cheaper to go OOS than Rutgers if you're a NJ resident. It's crazy how expensive it's been.
 
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As relative new kids on the block in terms of engineering education in NJ, both Rowan and CNJ (actually didn't even realize they started offering engineering degrees) are likely to pale in comparison to what Rutgers or NJIT can offer in terms of number of disciplines, research facilities, alumni network, perception, etc. Assuming going private (Princeton, Stevens) is not part of this discussion, if not Rutgers (1st) or NJIT (2nd), I would probably go out of state for engineering before staying in NJ at Rowan or CNJ.

As far as % international at Rutgers Engineering, the perception is often blown out of proportion. Many ethnically 'foreign-looking' undergrad students are not foreign/international at all, rather they are 2nd/3rd generation Americans but might be from cultures where a more practical/technical education is looked favorably upon for job/career prospects. Between the faculty and the graduate level (Masters & PhD students), there are a greater percentage of foreigners and that perception is further reinforced because more of these foreign grad students become teaching assistants who are required to interact more with undergrads than domestic grad students would.
You'd be surprised (as I was) how the general classroom appearance and offerings are at Rutgers compared to some others. The TA thing as we all know is a big thing at Rutgers but the others have stressed how the professor is your kid's teacher and not his/her assistant. I could tell at the Open House that was not too popular with some of the parents. But with a school this size, it is what it is.

The Weeks Building can not be completed soon enough. And that's the nice way of saying it. ;)

Stevens, NJIT and a few privates are also in the discussion, but I decided just to list those three NJ public's in this thread as a comparison.

Options other than RU?! As long as he doesn't join the Cult in Central PA I guess we can let it slide. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Considering the finger he gave the Cult fans behind us (and a well deserved one in this father's opinion) after the way they behaved in 2014, that was (in his words when the college thing came up)...never an option. LOL
 
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As a civil engineer w/17 yrs work experience, I've found the best entry level engineers from nj schools in the following order:

RU
Stevens
NJIT
TCNJ
Rowan
(Princeton kids mostly go grad school as they never seem to apply for open positions)

I am not disparaging any of these schools as i Have had good experience with all these schools, but percentage wise RU and Stevens have a deeper pool of graduates that excel.
 
As a civil engineer w/17 yrs work experience, I've found the best entry level engineers from nj schools in the following order:

RU
Stevens
NJIT
TCNJ
Rowan
(Princeton kids mostly go grad school as they never seem to apply for open positions)

I am not disparaging any of these schools as i Have had good experience with all these schools, but percentage wise RU and Stevens have a deeper pool of graduates that excel.
My son is interested in Civil and the kid from the Rutgers tour was amazing. Was from India and had a nice story on how he got here. Really connected with those of us who went around with him.

I’m sure he’ll be a great Civil Engineer but I got the impression this guy would be good at anything.
 
Different topic, but I'll post it here anyway. Sometimes it's cheaper to go OOS than Rutgers if you're a NJ resident. It's crazy how expensive it's been.

Is that true for schools in RU's range, or the Coastal Carolina type places?
 
Back in 96 i was offered enough scholarship money from VaTech that it was within $100/year of Rutgers.. chose wisely and chose RU ;)
 
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