How the portal kills your program....Seton Hall 8 for 8 from last year.

[NewJerseyHawk]

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

 

[NickRU714]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

How much was Holloway paid last year.
How much was the staff?
Spent on travel?
Training?
Food?
Hotel accommodations?

If you're basing every expenditure on "did you win?" then there are about 330 programs that wasted a ton of money last season.

 

[fatsam98]

Is there literally a single person on here arguing NIL and the portal is the best thing since sliced bread?

We can debate Pike and the roster all day long, but I think we all acknowledge we are watching the demise of a sport we all love right before our eyes

 

[RUChoppin]

Silly season has now extended beyond coaches to players. Hopefully college basketball figures this out over the next several years... my interest is all but gone in the sport at this point. I'll still follow Rutgers game to game, at this point, but even that's waning.

 

[NickRU714]

And yes - prioritizing HS recruiting (and the programs limited resources) is wrong way to build a program.

Still waiting to here how if Rutgers can't afford a $2m transfer but would afford to retain the same skill level player for $2m.

Are you just assuming HS recruits never increase in cost year over year as they get better?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

And yes - prioritizing HS recruiting (and the programs limited resources) is wrong way to build a program.

Still waiting to here how if Rutgers can't afford a $2m transfer but would afford to retain the same skill level player for $2m.

Are you just assuming HS recruits never increase in cost year over year as they get better?

You are blind bidding in the portal, how anyone doesn't understand this concept, makes no sense. If you accumulate enough players via HS recruiting over 3 to 4 recruiting classes, you reduce the reliance on the portal, because you can use the depth or next player on the roster to move up in the pecking order.

The question is what stabilizes the roster and keeps MOST, not all of your options under the control of the program.

Again, if you are NOT a wealthy program that has money to waste, you have no other viable option to sustain a roster, if you don't build depth through HS recruiting. Just because RU is in its current state, doesn't mean it has to find 1 player via the portal that costs 2M, when the rest of the starting 4 players may not cost more than 3M total.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

that is why i didn't renew and probably won't even watch college basketball at all. probably still visit message board because it is habit.

building program through HS players is probably a worse idea.

 

[Jerseylegends]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

The lack of rules in the portal seems like the biggest issue..
Edit:I don't understand how there are contracts with no time period written within them. Is that not allowed? I understand the right to attend any school you want but if you're under contract to play for another school you forfeit that right..

 

[RUInsanity]

You are blind bidding in the portal, how anyone doesn't understand this concept, makes no sense. If you accumulate enough players via HS recruiting over 3 to 4 recruiting classes, you reduce the reliance on the portal, because you can use the depth or next player on the roster to move up in the pecking order.

The question is what stabilizes the roster and keeps MOST, not all of your options under the control of the program.

Again, if you are NOT a wealthy program that has money to waste, you have no other viable option to sustain a roster, if you don't build depth through HS recruiting. Just because RU is in its current state, doesn't mean it has to find 1 player via the portal that costs 2M, when the rest of the starting 4 players may not cost more than 3M total.

You're assuming that the HS Recruits will stay over a multiple year period to stabilize the roster. As they develop and get better - they will become Transfer targets on the open market and cost money for RU to retain. Depending on how much they develop and how good they become - RU may not be able to afford to retain them regardless of how they may have entered the program as freshmen.

 

[runrutgersrun]

Is there literally a single person on here arguing NIL and the portal is the best thing since sliced bread?

We can debate Pike and the roster all day long, but I think we all acknowledge we are watching the demise of a sport we all love right before our eyes

I was listening to sports talk radio this morning and the show hosts were laughing at old time college sports fans like us...we were just dinosaurs that really don't matter in the new scheme of things. College sports are huge and they are not going away at all.

Their view reminded me of President Eisenhower's departing comments about being wary of the influence of the military industrial complex as he left political office in 1960. Similarly, the college sports entertainment complex will also protect itself, adapt, survive and likely flourish...it's too big to fail, the $$$$ too huge. College sports supplies too much product/content to cable/TV/streaming services (whatever!) to be allowed to disintegrate...follow the money, folks. The resulting product down the line just will not likely include RU, and understandably so. It's just the new world order, I guess.

 

[RUChoppin]

I was listening to sports talk radio this morning and the show hosts were laughing at old time college sports fans like us...we were just dinosaurs that really don't matter in the new scheme of things. College sports are huge and they are not going away at all.

Their view reminded me of President Eisenhower's departing comments about being wary of the influence of the military industrial complex as he left political office in 1960. Similarly, the college sports entertainment complex will also protect itself, adapt, survive and likely flourish...it's too big to fail, the $$$$ too huge. College sports supplies too much product/content to cable/TV/streaming services (whatever!) to be allowed to disintegrate...follow the money, folks. The resulting product down the line just will not likely include RU, and understandably so. It's just the new world order, I guess.

We finally got to the position of being competitive... for the whole landscape to change, completely undermining that position.

Lucy and the football.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The lack of rules in the portal seems like the biggest issue..
Edit:I don't understand how there are contracts with no time period written within them. Is that not allowed? I understand the right to attend any school you want but if you're under contract to play for another school you forfeit that right..

What's the plan of action if RU signed Jordan Derkack and Jeremiah Williams to multiple year contracts and you need to get a better guard?? Are you "stuck" with that player OR are you saying it is a one-way contract??

For GreeneFIG....not renewing means when I and many others mentioned players 10 and 20 years ago were getting paid at other schools, why is it an issue now?? There's literally no difference in the product of CBB or CFB. And I don't want to be bound to a player......would you be OK with Gavin Griffiths or Lathan Sommerville being locked into RU for 4 years, knowing neither player fit your own goal of playing dedicated defense??

This is where this sport has been for decades folks....and the "mistakes" of recruiting the wrong player, is just as critical to fix, as the ability to lose a player to the portal.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

We finally got to the position of being competitive... for the whole landscape to change, completely undermining that position.

Lucy and the football.

Nothing has changed, other than the no-sit out portal rule.....if you believe kids should sit out a year, that I can argue for.....at the same time, do you want bad players sticking around on your roster, that can't help you win???

Kids have been getting bags of money for decades....Nothing has changed other than the mirage of "higher education and other items".

Are you OK with coaches walking out the door, to get to a better school or opportunity??? My guess is, YES, but when they leave the players and players families high and dry, no one cares......

 

[RUChoppin]

Nothing has changed, other than the no-sit out portal rule.....if you believe kids should sit out a year, that I can argue for.....at the same time, do you want bad players sticking around on your roster, that can't help you win???

Kids have been getting bags of money for decades....Nothing has changed other than the mirage of "higher education and other items".

Are you OK with coaches walking out the door, to get to a better school or opportunity??? My guess is, YES, but when they leave the players and players families high and dry, no one cares......

"Other than".... the most significant changes to collegiate athletics in my lifetime (i.e., the complete elimination of all transfer constraints).

My position has always been it's the transfer rule changes that are the seismic shift, not the money.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people to take my place buying tickets and merchandise.

 

[Mr Magoo]

We finally got to the position of being competitive... for the whole landscape to change, completely undermining that position.

Lucy and the football.

We’ve always been a step behind ever since we turned down the Big East in the 70s. In the rare times that things worked out for us like admittance to the B1G, we spent the first 5 years spinning our wheels with the likes of Flood and Eddie Jordan. Then, when things started to look up, NIL smacked us in the face, we have a lame duck president, no AD, and a coach with an albatross contract.

 

[RUFan20231]

It really is stupid. Not one of these kids (apart from potential 1st rounders) deserves what they are getting paid. And the lack of either 2 years or redshirting is one of the stupidest decisions the NCAA has ever made.

 

[RUChoppin]

We’ve always been a step behind ever since we turned down the Big East in the 70s. In the rare times that things worked out for us like admittance to the B1G, we spent the first 5 years spinning our wheels with the likes of Flood and Eddie Jordan. Then, when things started to look up, NIL smacked us in the face, we have a lame duck president, no AD, and a coach with an albatross contract.

Transfer rules smacked us in the face. Too much blame on NIL, imo.

 

[RUPete]

Is there literally a single person on here arguing NIL and the portal is the best thing since sliced bread?

We can debate Pike and the roster all day long, but I think we all acknowledge we are watching the demise of a sport we all love right before our eyes

Well, there is one...

 

[ru66]

Fans must hope for controls and rules. I've said it often hope for a collectively bargained ncaa.

 

[retired711]

The lack of rules in the portal seems like the biggest issue..
Edit:I don't understand how there are contracts with no time period written within them. Is that not allowed? I understand the right to attend any school you want but if you're under contract to play for another school you forfeit that right..

But no player is under contract to stay at a school. Would players voluntarily sign multiyear contracts? (They can't be made to do so without violating the anti-trust laws.) I doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong.

This is probably Polyanna, but I think things will get better once the schools are under a cap as in the House settlement. Every school will have to ask, "is bidding X player away from another school really the best use of our liited resources?" To be successful, schools will want only transfers who the school thinks are being undervalued at another school -- and the school seeking the transfer will have to recognize that it gives up an opportunity to go in another direction. Of course, I'm assuming that, as the House settlement contemplates, boosters are excluded from NIL deals. If they aren't, then the disparity among schools in their resources will continue because schools that have boosters with deep pockets will (as now) be at a huge advantage.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What's the plan of action if RU signed Jordan Derkack and Jeremiah Williams to multiple year contracts and you need to get a better guard?? Are you "stuck" with that player OR are you saying it is a one-way contract??

For GreeneFIG....not renewing means when I and many others mentioned players 10 and 20 years ago were getting paid at other schools, why is it an issue now?? There's literally no difference in the product of CBB or CFB. And I don't want to be bound to a player......would you be OK with Gavin Griffiths or Lathan Sommerville being locked into RU for 4 years, knowing neither player fit your own goal of playing dedicated defense??

This is where this sport has been for decades folks....and the "mistakes" of recruiting the wrong player, is just as critical to fix, as the ability to lose a player to the portal.

My primary issues
1. Combination of transfer portal and NIL
2. 3 pointers ruining basketball

The straw that broke my camel’s back was the Alabama-BYU game. That was the last game i watched this year and it might be the last I will ever watch. That game, like the NBA, was a farce

I think the players should get paid from designated revenue streams. I think conferences should be by geography.

The genie is completely out of the bottle. Not getting it back in.

My vantage point is unique….I followed and was fanatic about a D1 revenue program AND had a D1 athlete kid playing in a non revenue sport.

 

[RUtrumpet92]

Change it so any transfer for ANY reason (ZERO exceptions) must sit out one for full season at their new school. At a minimum, allow each player ONE chance to transfer and play immediately without sitting out. After that, you are sitting a full season, no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[NickRU714]

But no player is under contract to stay at a school. Would players voluntarily sign multiyear contracts? (They can't be made to do so without violating the anti-trust laws.) I doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong.

This is probably Polyanna, but I think things will get better once the schools are under a cap as in the House settlement. Every school will have to ask, "is bidding X player away from another school really the best use of our liited resources?" To be successful, schools will want only transfers who the school thinks are being undervalued at another school -- and the school seeking the transfer will have to recognize that it gives up an opportunity to go in another direction. Of course, I'm assuming that, as the House settlement contemplates, boosters are excluded from NIL deals. If they aren't, then the disparity among schools in their resources will continue because schools that have boosters with deep pockets will (as now) be at a huge advantage.

The sport would be so much better if boosters would just go away.
But that means all "boosters" - including Rutgers much lower donation levels.
It came up in another thread - Spike Lee isn't "donating" millions to the Knicks for player salaries or to fund private jets for free agent meetings or to pay coaching buyouts.

Run it like every other professional sport.
The cat is out of the bag.
There are billion dollar media deals.
ADs have hundred million dollar budgets.
ADs can't keep claiming "We're too poor. We need the extra money from fans."

Problem is ADs would have to actually manage their resources and not get bailed out every year.

 

[bac2therac]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

The OP seems few years behind the reality of how NIL has changed things

 

[bac2therac]

Silly season has now extended beyond coaches to players. Hopefully college basketball figures this out over the next several years... my interest is all but gone in the sport at this point. I'll still follow Rutgers game to game, at this point, but even that's waning.

Same..its sad and unfortunate

 

[bac2therac]

Nothing has changed, other than the no-sit out portal rule.....if you believe kids should sit out a year, that I can argue for.....at the same time, do you want bad players sticking around on your roster, that can't help you win???

Kids have been getting bags of money for decades....Nothing has changed other than the mirage of "higher education and other items".

Are you OK with coaches walking out the door, to get to a better school or opportunity??? My guess is, YES, but when they leave the players and players families high and dry, no one cares......

Lmao

Nothing has changed you say

 

[RUBOB72]

We’ve always been a step behind ever since we turned down the Big East in the 70s. In the rare times that things worked out for us like admittance to the B1G, we spent the first 5 years spinning our wheels with the likes of Flood and Eddie Jordan. Then, when things started to look up, NIL smacked us in the face, we have a lame duck president, no AD, and a coach with an albatross contract.

Flood ( B1G) was in for 2014-15 then came Ash also 2015. Eddie Jordan never coached in the B1G and my question is … you call that coaching at Rutgers in the Big East?

 

[Nycrusupporter]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

All of these transfers started out as high school recruits somewhere and they all moved on to different schools. High school recruits only have value if you can retain them, because in year 1, other than the top few highly ranked recruits they will not be as good as more veteran players. But there is no evidence a school like Rutgers can retain anyone, other than players who aren’t coveted by other schools.

 

[retired711]

But no player is under contract to stay at a school. Would players voluntarily sign multiyear contracts? (They can't be made to do so without violating the anti-trust laws.) I doubt it, but maybe I'm wrong.

This is probably Polyanna, but I think things will get better once the schools are under a cap as in the House settlement. Every school will have to ask, "is bidding X player away from another school really the best use of our liited resources?" To be successful, schools will want only transfers who the school thinks are being undervalued at another school -- and the school seeking the transfer will have to recognize that it gives up an opportunity to go in another direction. Of course, I'm assuming that, as the House settlement contemplates, boosters are excluded from NIL deals. If they aren't, then the disparity among schools in their resources will continue because schools that have boosters with deep pockets will (as now) be at a huge advantage.

I wrote above that "(They can't be made to do so without violating the anti-trust laws.) " What I mean is that schools can't agree among themselves to only offer multiyear contracts. A school could on its own decide, "we will only offer multiyear contracts," but it would be at the risk of being undercut by schools that offer one-year contracts.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Change it so any transfer for ANY reason (ZERO exceptions) must sit out one for full season at their new school. At a minimum, allow each player ONE chance to transfer and play immediately without sitting out. After that, you are sitting a full season, no ifs, ands, or buts.

thats not fair...especially if coach leaves

 

[bac2therac]

thats not fair...especially if coach leaves

Boo hoo

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Solution....
Take 10?% of the conference revenue + 50% of NCAA tournament revenue and give it to the players.

Each team has scholarship slots (or tiers) which designate what % of the pot the player gets.

If we use Tiers (prefer slots which would a sliding scale)
3 Tiers
Tier A top 4 players get 15% each
Tier B next 4 players get 7.5% each
Tier C splits what is left

40% of NCAA revenue + 10% conference revenue is allocated.

BONUS 10% of NCAA tournament is given to players 2,3 and 4 years in the program. 2 years guys get 1 unit, 3 year guys get 2 units and 4 year guys get 3 units.

Players give up rights to any compensation from ANY sources while enrolled at college.

 

[retired711]

Change it so any transfer for ANY reason (ZERO exceptions) must sit out one for full season at their new school. At a minimum, allow each player ONE chance to transfer and play immediately without sitting out. After that, you are sitting a full season, no ifs, ands, or buts.

That would require an act of Congress or a unionization of the players that leads to a collective bargaining agreement. Otherwise there is a *very* strong chance that it would be found in violation of the antitrust laws, creating treble liability for the schools or the NCAA. So whether yours is a good idea or not, it's a very heavy lift to put in place.

 

[retired711]

Solution....
Take 10?% of the conference revenue + 50% of NCAA tournament revenue and give it to the players.

Each team has scholarship slots (or tiers) which designate what % of the pot the player gets.

If we use Tiers (prefer slots which would a sliding scale)
3 Tiers
Tier A top 4 players get 15% each
Tier B next 4 players get 7.5% each
Tier C splits what is left

40% of NCAA revenue + 10% conference revenue is allocated.

BONUS 10% of NCAA tournament is given to players 2,3 and 4 years in the program. 2 years guys get 1 unit, 3 year guys get 2 units and 4 year guys get 3 units.

Players give up rights to any compensation from ANY sources while enrolled at college.

Your proposal that players give up rights to compensation from anyone other than the schools is undoubtedly an antitrust violation. Again, an act of Congress or collective bargaining agreement would be necessary -- again, a very heavy lift.

 

[RUInsanity]

Silly season has now extended beyond coaches to players. Hopefully college basketball figures this out over the next several years... my interest is all but gone in the sport at this point. I'll still follow Rutgers game to game, at this point, but even that's waning.

I could be wrong but my opinion is that the fan sentiment of losing interest or quitting has more to do with how they feel about Rutgers coming off this past season as well as their negative feelings going into next season. Sure there may be a few "old time" college basketball die-hards who never come back - but if RU's prospects were to suddenly change with high profile recruits/transfers or even a coaching change......or......if RU turns it around on the court....many of the people lamenting the state of college basketball and that they are losing interest in RU would be singing a different tune. Maybe RU will never be any good with the current rules. But generally in sports, nothing lasts forever. There will always be another season, and eventually new coach, staff and players to look forward to.

 

[runrutgersrun]

We finally got to the position of being competitive... for the whole landscape to change, completely undermining that position.

Lucy and the football.

So true...there was a 15 minute period just a few short years ago where I, too, thought RU might have seen the light at the end of the tunnel...Schiano had been rehired, Pike was turning the MBB team around, the CVS saga seemed to end. I cautiously allowed myself to feel optimistic.

It lasted for fifteen minutes. Bang, bang...along comes NIL and the instant free agent transfer portal!!! These were two things that I KNEW would not serve RU well. I was pretty sure these events would also possibly kill the goose that laid the golden eggs for ALL college sports in general, not just RU. Once again, that tunnel light has become the train coming the other way.

I've been called a Charlie Brown in my life...but this all makes me think I might be the Charlie Brown-est!

Go RU!

 

[retired711]

I could be wrong but my opinion is that the fan sentiment of losing interest or quitting has more to do with how they feel about Rutgers coming off this past season as well as their negative feelings going into next season. Sure there may be a few "old time" college basketball die-hards who never come back - but if RU's prospects were to suddenly change with high profile recruits/transfers or even a coaching change......or......if RU turns it around on the court....many of the people lamenting the state of college basketball and that they are losing interest in RU would be singing a different tune. Maybe RU will never be any good with the current rules. But generally in sports, nothing lasts forever. There will always be another season, and eventually new coach, staff and players to look forward to.

I think that discontent has to do with the perception that, even with a great coach, RU cannot attract winning players for lack of NIL money from fans and so things are hopeless. It's hard to root without hope. I have suggested that maybe the House settlement puts us on the same financial level as our competitors, but we'll have to see.

 

[NickRU714]

Boo hoo

Agreed!
That's what the money is for.

Cade Cunningham didn't get to void his contract because Monty Williams got fired.

If you have a contract and the coach leaves, well too bad.
It's a contract.

Unless the team and player agree to work out a buyout.

 

[gigantor1024]

Where is Geo at? This was his brain child after all.

 

[NickRU714]

These are all things that a functioning league with a CBA would work out.