How the portal kills your program....Seton Hall 8 for 8 from last year.

[RUChoppin]

I could be wrong but my opinion is that the fan sentiment of losing interest or quitting has more to do with how they feel about Rutgers coming off this past season as well as their negative feelings going into next season. Sure there may be a few "old time" college basketball die-hards who never come back - but if RU's prospects were to suddenly change with high profile recruits/transfers or even a coaching change......or......if RU turns it around on the court....many of the people lamenting the state of college basketball and that they are losing interest in RU would be singing a different tune. Maybe RU will never be any good with the current rules. But generally in sports, nothing lasts forever. There will always be another season, and eventually new coach, staff and players to look forward to.

Have talked about this on other threads, but I'm in that "old" school group (still in my mid 40s, so not sure how old that makes me).

I was a "college basketball fan" with a special rooting interest focus on Rutgers. I am no longer a "college basketball fan"... just a Rutgers fan.

If Rutgers has a very good year, that will likely draw more of my interest in Rutgers.... but my broad college basketball fandom had never been based on Rutgers' success (or I'd never have become a fan of the sport until a few short years ago).

There are plenty of newbie fans that were drawn to the sport by Rutgers' success for whom your post undoubtedly applies. My fandom predates that (even predates my enrollment at Rutgers, back when I rooted for SHU, ND, and Michigan). I'm likely the minority, but I doubt it will ever be rekindled. My engagement in the sport (outside of Rutgers) seems to now be relegated to the realm of nostalgia.

 

[RUInsanity]

Have talked about this on other threads, but I'm in that "old" school group (still in my mid 40s, so not sure how old that makes me).

I was a "college basketball fan" with a special rooting interest focus on Rutgers. I am no longer a "college basketball fan"... just a Rutgers fan.

If Rutgers has a very good year, that will likely draw more of my interest in Rutgers.... but my broad college basketball fandom had never been based on Rutgers' success (or I'd never have become a fan of the sport until a few short years ago).

There are plenty of newbie fans that were drawn to the sport by Rutgers' success for whom your post undoubtedly applies. My fandom predates that (even predates my enrollment at Rutgers, back when I rooted for SHU, ND, and Michigan). I'm likely the minority, but I doubt it will ever be rekindled. My engagement in the sport (outside of Rutgers) seems to now be relegated to the realm of nostalgia.

To clarify - by "old time" I was not trying to refer to the age of fans. Rather it was pointed perhaps at fans more aligned with your thinking - that they are not as receptive to the new rules and long more for preservation of what College Basketball used to mean to them in terms of play on the court and rules around player movement etc.

I don't agree that only newbie fans that my post points to. There are many long time fans who may feel negatively at this point but will express more positive presence with winning or more positive prospects. Many of us just role with the punches. There is nothing I can do as an individual fans about changing the NIL/Transfer rules - but I still have a significant affinity toward Rutgers Basketball etc.

PS.....I'm coming at this from a different perspective than you -so maybe that accounts for our difference. I'm a Rutgers Basketball fan much more than a college basketball fan.

 

[goru7]

There has to be some collective bargaining agreement adopted by the NCAA and unlike anything that institution does , it must be done fast. This is the Wild Wild West on steroids. Players transferring to the highest bidder after 1 good year , year to year restocking of the roster. It is not sustainable.
Hawk’s insistence on continuing to recruit high school players and develop them , might get a few to stay for a winning culture , as long as they are paid to stay , but the influx of transfers must also be done by common sense rules. This player transferring to 4 schools in 4 years has to end. Let their career die.
This year we retained Grant and Dorsch which are positives. Losing Lathan was a huge negative. Retaining the freshman class of 2025 is also a priority as in 2026 recruiting. However , Pike had to step up and get 1-2 scoring guards that are 2 way players and a rim protector on a limited budget. That is where we are at and it sucks. But getting the culture right where people don’t want out , like Houston and Kelvin Sampson has done , has to be the model going forward.

 

[Mholinko]

You are blind bidding in the portal, how anyone doesn't understand this concept, makes no sense. If you accumulate enough players via HS recruiting over 3 to 4 recruiting classes, you reduce the reliance on the portal, because you can use the depth or next player on the roster to move up in the pecking order.

The question is what stabilizes the roster and keeps MOST, not all of your options under the control of the program.

Again, if you are NOT a wealthy program that has money to waste, you have no other viable option to sustain a roster, if you don't build depth through HS recruiting. Just because RU is in its current state, doesn't mean it has to find 1 player via the portal that costs 2M, when the rest of the starting 4 players may not cost more than 3M total.

even if all your players DONT walk out the door after each season your money is still gone

if you spent 3 million on 8 guys and all 8 come back they arent playing for free the next year so from a financial standpoint what difference does it make if they come back or not?

you still have to make a choice as a fan whether to donate or not and i rationalize that i am donating to the jersey and thats why i donate not to the player

 

[Mholinko]

Boo hoo

you don't think a 20 year old kid should be allowed to leave if the coach leaves? i guess you were not a college athlete

it can be pretty disheartening to a teenager if the guy who recruited you leaves and you are then obligated to stay because the school says so?

 

[RUtrumpet92]

Feel free to leave if the coaching staff changes. But be prepared to sit out a year at your next destination. You still get four seasons of eligibility.

I know my idea will never be implemented. But if nothing changes, in a few years, the golden goose will be dead. The annual portal dance/shuffle for $$ is going to destroy it.

 

[seansherm]

"Other than".... the most significant changes to collegiate athletics in my lifetime (i.e., the complete elimination of all transfer constraints).

My position has always been it's the transfer rule changes that are the seismic shift, not the money.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people to take my place buying tickets and merchandise.

It's got to be a combination. The desire to transfer every four months wouldn't be there if the $ wasn't. Agents being able to go out and scope the market for a kid hasn't helped either.

 

[Degaz-RU]

For GreeneFIG....not renewing means when I and many others mentioned players 10 and 20 years ago were getting paid at other schools, why is it an issue now?? There's literally no difference in the product of CBB or CFB.

This is where this sport has been for decades folks....and the "mistakes" of recruiting the wrong player, is just as critical to fix, as the ability to lose a player to the portal.

"Literally no difference"?!?

Sorry Hawk, but there's a HUGE difference between, on the one hand, blue bloods paying players under the table in violation of NCAA rules (and most other schools NOT paying players because of the illegality) VERSUS, on the other hand, every single school paying players six- and seven-figures because it's now legal to do so. You cannot get any more different than one being illegal -- and therefore way less prevalent -- and the other being completely legal.

Yes, free transfers with the Portal have juiced the insanity geometrically, but it's the LEGALITY of paying players -- instead of it being an NCAA violation and therefore secret and therefore not nearly as prevalent -- that has caused a fundamental change in the sport. And not for the better.

 

[NickRU714]

you don't think a 20 year old kid should be allowed to leave if the coach leaves? i guess you were not a college athlete

it can be pretty disheartening to a teenager if the guy who recruited you leaves and you are then obligated to stay because the school says so?

If he signs a contract?
Then no I don't.
Professional sports goes both ways - team and player.

Sooner this all gets codified in a CBA, the better.

If Dylan or Ace have their HC leave in a year they don't to just get out of their contract.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Flood ( B1G) was in for 2014-15 then came Ash also 2015. Eddie Jordan never coached in the B1G and my question is … you call that coaching at Rutgers in the Big East?

I believe Jordan actually coached us for two seasons in the B1G. I seem to remember is beating a very good Wisconsin team at the RAC for one of our only league wins one of those years. And yes, Ash was even way worse than Flood.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

If he signs a contract?
Then no I don't.
Professional sports goes both ways - team and player.

Sooner this all gets codified in a CBA, the better.

If Dylan or Ace have their HC leave in a year they don't to just get out of their contract.

Even if the NCAA wanted this (they seem to pin their hopes on some Congressional action, I think because they don’t want to make the players employees), it is not clear there is a party for them to negotiate with. College athletes by their nature are pretty transitory, it could be very difficult to form any consensus around a union and who would represent it.

 

[RUBOB72]

We’ve always been a step behind ever since we turned down the Big East in the 70s. In the rare times that things worked out for us like admittance to the B1G, we spent the first 5 years spinning our wheels with the likes of Flood and Eddie Jordan. Then, when things started to look up, NIL smacked us in the face, we have a lame duck president, no AD, and a coach with an albatross contract.

Flood ( B1G) was in for 2014-15 then came Ash also 2015. Eddie Jordan never coached in the B1G and my question is … you call that coaching at Rutgers in the Big East?

I believe Jordan actually coached us for two seasons in the B1G. I seem to remember is beating a very good Wisconsin team at the RAC for one of our only league wins one of those years. And yes, Ash was even way worse than Flood.

As much as I lover Eddie as a Rutgers player he was a poor coach… personal success in a sport does not always equate to ability to coach others.

 

[retired711]

These are all things that a functioning league with a CBA would work out.

Having a CBA -- a collective bargaining agreement -- assumes that the players are allowed to unionize. That's not going to be easy. First, the National Labor Relations Board would have to find that players are employees. Second, states with public universities would have to agree because the NLRB regulates only private employers. Third, the players would have to unionize. If anything happens, it's more likely to be Congressional action.

 

[retired711]

There has to be some collective bargaining agreement adopted by the NCAA and unlike anything that institution does , it must be done fast. This is the Wild Wild West on steroids. Players transferring to the highest bidder after 1 good year , year to year restocking of the roster. It is not sustainable.
Hawk’s insistence on continuing to recruit high school players and develop them , might get a few to stay for a winning culture , as long as they are paid to stay , but the influx of transfers must also be done by common sense rules. This player transferring to 4 schools in 4 years has to end. Let their career die.
This year we retained Grant and Dorsch which are positives. Losing Lathan was a huge negative. Retaining the freshman class of 2025 is also a priority as in 2026 recruiting. However , Pike had to step up and get 1-2 scoring guards that are 2 way players and a rim protector on a limited budget. That is where we are at and it sucks. But getting the culture right where people don’t want out , like Houston and Kelvin Sampson has done , has to be the model going forward.

The NCAA can't adopt a collective bargaining agreement without a union of athletes to bargain it with. As I said above, that's easier said than done. Either the House settlement will stabilize things, as I suggest above, or Congress would have to act to end the current situation.

 

[ru66]

The NCAA can't adopt a collective bargaining agreement without a union of athletes to bargain it with. As I said above, that's easier said than done. Either the House settlement will stabilize things, as I suggest above, or Congress would have to act to end the current situation.

There are state emploee unions all over the place. If a majority of the players vote one in it will happen. I suspect the players who are not stars would vote for a union and be encouraged to do so by a union's organizers. And as for benefits the players get free great health care now anyway..

 

[retired711]

There are state emploee unions all over the place. If a majority of the players vote one in it will happen. I suspect the players who are not stars would vote for a union and be encouraged to do so by a union's organizers. And as for benefits the players get free great health care now anyway..

Each state decides whether and to what extent its employees can unionize. If New Jersey decides to let athletes unionize, as it undoubtedly will, then athletes at Rutgers can unionize. But there's no guarantee that all or even most of the other states would do the same. Even if they did, it would be a long drawn-out process.

 

[superfan01]

@NewJerseyHawk is very lost. Seems like game has passed him by.

 

[Degaz-RU]

The NCAA can't adopt a collective bargaining agreement without a union of athletes to bargain it with. As I said above, that's easier said than done. Either the House settlement will stabilize things, as I suggest above, or Congress would have to act to end the current situation.

The House settlement won’t stabilize anything, because the Wild West of private NIL will still be prevalent IN ADDITION TO the “revenue sharing” that comes from the new post-House regime.

 

[Joey Bags]

Was at a work event where a retiring partner of a private equity firm we consult for said he is willing to drop up to the mid 7 figures on an annual basis to see St. Johns win the natty before he dies (has health issues).

None of the big money is being deployed rationally, and those deploying it don’t care.

 

[retired711]

The House settlement won’t stabilize anything, because the Wild West of private NIL will still be prevalent IN ADDITION TO the “revenue sharing” that comes from the new post-House regime.

Private NIL will be allowed with a huge exception: deals between boosters and athletes will be allowed only if there is a valid commercial purpose rather than being pay-to-play. *If* (and I emphasize *if*) that works as designed, schools will be on an equal footing because boosters won't be able to lure kids by giving them sweetheart deals to come play for their school.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Was at a work event where a retiring partner of a private equity firm we consult for said he is willing to drop up to the mid 7 figures on an annual basis to see St. Johns win the natty before he dies (has health issues).

None of the big money is being deployed rationally, and those deploying it don’t care.

I guess the players are worth what they are making if there are enough people like this

 

[bac2therac]

I guess the players are worth what they are making if there are enough people like this

But wait Al and Hawk say WE as fans are at fault for not dropping thousands

 

[MCKnight2004]

High school recruiting and hoping those kids stay, develop, and meet expectations is just no longer a method to winning. There’s no guarantee any player will ever stay more than one year with money always luring them away. It’s a terrible model for a nice guy player development coach like Pikes.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything SVP says here...

 

[rucoe89]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

You can love the NIL and Portal setup but not have it mean much in 3 years when only a handful of programs can afford it. Long term this will reduce opportunities for scholarships education for those wanting to compete in college athletics as schools cut back and move to a "Club" model.

Part of the fix (and yes, there are many needed) may be minimum commitment time (3 years?) and maybe 1 automatic release or when a head coach exits a program.

 

[RUChoppin]

It's got to be a combination. The desire to transfer every four months wouldn't be there if the $ wasn't. Agents being able to go out and scope the market for a kid hasn't helped either.

I think the desire was always there for players to move to more competitive/desirable programs (or away from difficult situations), as indicated by the rapid rise in waiver requests in the early days of the portal era - but coaches hesitated to take a chance on guys they'd have to blow a scholarship on for a sit-out year. The transfer portal was already hopping before the transfer restrictions started falling like dominoes, and it's just accelerated year by year. NIL has definitely been a big accelerant - but even if it didn't exist, I feel players would still have been jumping team to team annually with the current rules.

Don't get the minutes you want? Bail out. Coach too tough? Bail. Feel like you deserve more exposure on a better team? Bail. Handlers telling you to bail? Bail.

NIL throws additional huge incentives on top of this - but I have zero expectation players would stay put with the current free-transfer system if NIL was still illegal.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Private NIL will be allowed with a huge exception: deals between boosters and athletes will be allowed only if there is a valid commercial purpose rather than being pay-to-play. *If* (and I emphasize *if*) that works as designed, schools will be on an equal footing because boosters won't be able to lure kids by giving them sweetheart deals to come play for their school.

I have zero confidence that the NCAA would be able to police this standard. In any event, private NIL would simply go back underground, and would be more prevalent because these past few years have made pay for play more commonplace.

 

[retired711]

I have zero confidence that the NCAA would be able to police this standard. In any event, private NIL would simply go back underground, and would be more prevalent because these past few years have made pay for play more commonplace.

My confidence level is higher than yours. Deloitte has existed for centuries and has a fine reputation. I can't see them taking on a job that they don't think can be done. But, as always, the future can't be predicted with certainty.

 

[hinson32]

It really is stupid. Not one of these kids (apart from potential 1st rounders) deserves what they are getting paid. And the lack of either 2 years or redshirting is one of the stupidest decisions the NCAA has ever made.

Who deserves the millions of dollars that schools are getting paid for tv contracts and the NCAA tournament?

 

[RUChoppin]

My confidence level is higher than yours. Deloitte has existed for centuries and has a fine reputation. I can't see them taking on a job that they don't think can be done. But, as always, the future can't be predicted with certainty.

Having worked directly with Deloitte, they are always ready to throw more resources at problem and to gold-plate any given process as much as possible.

 

[retired711]

Having worked directly with Deloitte, they are always ready to throw more resources at problem and to gold-plate any given process as much as possible.

Thanks! But do they get the job done? To me,that's the crucial question. I couldn't care less if they charge the NCAA a lot of money.

 

[ru66]

My confidence level is higher than yours. Deloitte has existed for centuries and has a fine reputation. I can't see them taking on a job that they don't think can be done. But, as always, the future can't be predicted with certainty.

Deloitte wants the $. They're looking at this a cash cow.

 

[T2Kplus20]

View embedded media

Argue all you want about NIL and how the portal is the best thing since sliced bread etc.

If you spent X amount of money in the portal less than 1 year ago for EIGHT players and all 8 depart the next year, how is that successful for all the portal lovers on the message boards here.

I'll wait to hear how this doesn't matter and how HS recruiting is a thing of the past or not the right way to rebuild and sustain a program.....

And are you donating to a program 1 year later, after all of your money wasted, walks out the door??? So the coaches can ask for another couple of million to fill in the gaps......??? Good luck

I know there are the Baylors and Indiana programs that can reload their programs with billionaire donors, but even billionaire money spent, still needs to make sense.....

College basketball is a hot mess and getting worse.

 

[T2Kplus20]

You are blind bidding in the portal, how anyone doesn't understand this concept, makes no sense. If you accumulate enough players via HS recruiting over 3 to 4 recruiting classes, you reduce the reliance on the portal, because you can use the depth or next player on the roster to move up in the pecking order.

Not if these players just leave after 1 year since you don't have the money to keep them. Pike keeps losing almost everyone.

 

[ru8081]

There has to be some legal recourse for this situation. I am not a lawyer but what about some form of breach of contract! How about a lawsuit against the NCAA for how this is set up! Why are schools with big time football programs treated the same as schools with barely any investments in their football programs? A group of like schools like Rutgers should get together and see what they can do!

 

[Joey Bags]

College basketball is a hot mess and getting worse.

When Cam Spencer went to Uconn he copped 500k I believe. Now he would bag 1-2M. 2 years from now it will be 4M.

I don’t think people understand just how much cash is sitting on the sidelines still. The people throwing the big dollars experienced gargantuan wealth growth since 2020.

No lawsuit or regulation will stop this. If the NCAA intervenes with a framework for transfers the top programs will leave the NCAA.

 

[T2Kplus20]

When Cam Spencer went to Uconn he copped 500k I believe. Now he would bag 1-2M. 2 years from now it will be 4M.

I don’t think people understand just how much cash is sitting on the sidelines still. The people throwing the big dollars experienced gargantuan wealth growth since 2020.

No lawsuit or regulation will stop this. If the NCAA intervenes with a framework for transfers the top programs will leave the NCAA.

And RU is screwed since we don't have a mega-wealthy sugar daddy. Shaking the tree for $100 to $500 donations isn't going to cut it. That's like spitting in the ocean.

 

[RUChoppin]

Thanks! But do they get the job done? To me,that's the crucial question. I couldn't care less if they charge the NCAA a lot of money.

Quality has been mixed, tbh. For what we've been paying, I'd expected much more/better.

 

[NickRU714]

Having worked directly with Deloitte, they are always ready to throw more resources at problem and to gold-plate any given process as much as possible.

But at what cost to their client?
And who exactly is the client paying for the potential gold-platw service?

Is it the NCAA?
Hope they have their own audit of the vendor management practices and payments.

 

[bac2therac]

When Cam Spencer went to Uconn he copped 500k I believe. Now he would bag 1-2M. 2 years from now it will be 4M.

I don’t think people understand just how much cash is sitting on the sidelines still. The people throwing the big dollars experienced gargantuan wealth growth since 2020.

No lawsuit or regulation will stop this. If the NCAA intervenes with a framework for transfers the top programs will leave the NCAA.

Is there anyone stopping an Elon Musk from throwing 50 million for basketball roster

Wait til the Saudis get interested