By all accounts, Ash seems to be doing a very decent job thus far. The fanbase and the local media are still in the honeymoon phase, mostly because he hasn't coached a game yet. I expect the snake will turn on its own tail starting November. A few more realistic fans are stating they don't expect on-the-field wins, if the team shows improvement. But I think the general fanbase, particularly the more casual fans expect things to turn around immediately. All this doesn't matter though if Ash is the right man for the job because he'll be able to succeed with or without fan/media support. But as a fanbase, we've been through this so many times. Not just Flood, but Fast Eddie and Rice, and FHJ, and Waters, and so on and so forth. Each new coach always brings with him hope for better results, but I remember distinctly all the ebullient posts and positive articles each time a new coach comes in. Eventually it all goes down the crapper. How the heck does a person not get jaded?
How to differentiate between honeymoon hype and a quality coach?
- Thread starter RUSK97
- Start date
Agree with all you say here. For me, I just want to see the fight week in and week out like we used to. We have a while before we can compete with the top teams, but cutting the margin of loss will be enough . . . . for now.
Oh geeze this should be fun....I don't know, maybe because true fans don't give up on their teams, EVER, especially if they are an alumnus?
BTW - IMHO, while I wasn't anti-Flood until October 2013, and I did support him when hired, there were signs from early on that his plan was to simply ride on his former boss's "coattails" and see where it took him. Eddie? Thought he was still coaching in the NBA. That was evident from practically Day 1. Rice, Bannon, etc., well, they just got caught up in stupid shit unfortunately.
BTW - IMHO, while I wasn't anti-Flood until October 2013, and I did support him when hired, there were signs from early on that his plan was to simply ride on his former boss's "coattails" and see where it took him. Eddie? Thought he was still coaching in the NBA. That was evident from practically Day 1. Rice, Bannon, etc., well, they just got caught up in stupid shit unfortunately.
Last edited:
In sports, you can see the make up of a team in defeat. The record is of little consequence, as mentioned, but the fight is where the difference will be measured. For years, even the last few with Schiano, this team has not demonstrated that fire. I want to see a team with confidence and fire. Yes, confidence can be demonstrated even when losing. Show you trust and faith in your team. Believe in your capabilities.
I beleive the casual fan will see this as well, should it occur.
I beleive the casual fan will see this as well, should it occur.
Steve Addazio has two rings with Urban from his time with the Gators.
We've never had a coach come in and change the entire culture so fast, down to every detail. Look of the Hale center, nutrition, weight training, uniforms, relationship building, twitter, and literally have all the top prospects on the cusp of commitment..all within a few months. What other coach at Rutgers could call Ohio State and ASK them to come to our camp. Ash/Hobbs combo has done every single thing right.
By Year 4 we should all know if Ash was just wishful thinking or the next big thing and we need to give him a big raise.
So far everything is looking good.
However the Spring Game really shows that Flood really crap the bed here and there will be growing pains. I can't see that team making a bowl game this year. But if that happens just think of what Ash could do once he builds the team to his vision.
But we are at the crawl before we can walk phase.
So far everything is looking good.
However the Spring Game really shows that Flood really crap the bed here and there will be growing pains. I can't see that team making a bowl game this year. But if that happens just think of what Ash could do once he builds the team to his vision.
But we are at the crawl before we can walk phase.
Doesn't matter what the fan base believes as long as Ash keeps the recruits believing... long enough to start turning things around. I do expect that the current players will get coached up better and that we have a noticeably better product on the field, even if that doesn't result in more wins initially.
I believe ash is a very good hire at this point in time. if he proves to be successful that would be great. I don't think he can do harm to the program. at the very least, he will serve as a caretaker and help transition this team to the next era which will occur when the big 10 money arrives and we can go all in on the next coach, overall im very pleased with the hire.
The recruiting results are encouraging, and I like what he has to say and his energy, but I agree... We won't know for sure for another 3-5 years (though we'll start to get an idea sooner than that). I do think he'll generally get a pass on the record this year, so long as the team is showing fight and general cohesion.
2017 will be the end of the official honeymoon, and that will be tough because there will be no holdovers from the 2012 recruiting class, and the heart of the team will be Flood's very thin 2013/2014/2015 classes. I think you will start to hear rumblings from some less patient fans.
2017 will be the end of the official honeymoon, and that will be tough because there will be no holdovers from the 2012 recruiting class, and the heart of the team will be Flood's very thin 2013/2014/2015 classes. I think you will start to hear rumblings from some less patient fans.
I can agree with most of what you said but I can't disagree more about drawing conclusions from the spring game. When you play against yourselves half yout team looks bad on every play. If you were looking to see how bad our talent was you could see it one one side of the ball on virtually every play. If one QB hit a long pass the db looked bad. If the QB got sacked the oline looked bad. I watched many big ten spring games and quite frankly none looked very good. It was practice.
He's done everything really well so far, from recruits to hiring good assistants to driving home a strong message to getting his players to already improve their work ethic and mentality. He's also going head to head with Harbaugh already so you can tell the guy has great fire and is ballsy. Its already a big difference from Flood who seemed like a "B" type of personality while Ash is absolutely taking charge and has fantastic charisma. That's half the battle already. The other half will be getting it done on the field, but the fundamentals, which were Flood's biggest weakness of all, are already developing well.
Lordy,lordy.Can't wait for Practice to start. Posts like these make me almost wish that I was completely computer illiterate.(I'm only partially)
Practice? How about the season? Let's see what we got!
I'm not expecting great things from the offense with the transition to the spread, but perhaps we will be surprised. Hoping for bigger things on defense, although the LB situation is scary.
I think everyone expected Ash weakness to be his recruiting but he already has shown he 's a better recruiter than Flood. His on field coaching is his strength so everyone should be positive compared to the last few years.
In reality this team as constituted is unlikely to win more than 4 games regardless of who is coaching and even that may be a reach. If the recruits sign on the dotted line even after this upcoming bad season, at the very least, we wil know the program is in good hands and on track to get back to lower level bowl consistency.
If he succeeds in doing that, he will get to big ten competitive talent, and the opportunity to coach us up to the next level. Then it's a domino effect (recruiting + winning) once that's achieved.
Flood was gifted talent by Greg when he started and failed to deliver. Ash needs time to build the talent back up but he Isn't starting with the added benefit of a guaranteed bowl birth roster in the big ten at his disposal on the recruiting trail.
If he succeeds in doing that, he will get to big ten competitive talent, and the opportunity to coach us up to the next level. Then it's a domino effect (recruiting + winning) once that's achieved.
Flood was gifted talent by Greg when he started and failed to deliver. Ash needs time to build the talent back up but he Isn't starting with the added benefit of a guaranteed bowl birth roster in the big ten at his disposal on the recruiting trail.
I think next season is all about expectations. The more casual fan is only going to look at the W/L record. I would assume most people on this board (more informed) believes that Rutgers may be 500 or below next season. Most people on this board are going to be looking at 1) is the team improving as the year goes on 2) is the team fighting 3) Does 2017 season look bright and 4) is recruiting still on the uptick for the 2017 class.
The "honeymoon" is never over! But, I do make the bed most mornings. After all, I slept in it!
RU fans, and Alumnus should remember that.
RU fans, and Alumnus should remember that.
I believe we have coaches with national championships under their belts already that we didn't have before. I hope I read the bios correctly.
Chris Ash (National Champions OSU)
Vince Okruch (National Champions OSU)
Kenny Parker (National Champions OSU and UF)
Bill Busch (Big Ten Championship Wisc.)
When did we ever have this much recognition and talent?
I think this coaching staff has a lot to do to prepare for September. We may not do well, but I'm sure we will improve and impress.
Coach Ash has been up front with the media about the talent or lack there of, but sees improvement each and every day. The team is bulking up and getting fit, eating right for an athlete and all seem to be buying in to the new staff's regimen. That's all we can ask.
Hoping for a great year.
Chris Ash (National Champions OSU)
Vince Okruch (National Champions OSU)
Kenny Parker (National Champions OSU and UF)
Bill Busch (Big Ten Championship Wisc.)
When did we ever have this much recognition and talent?
I think this coaching staff has a lot to do to prepare for September. We may not do well, but I'm sure we will improve and impress.
Coach Ash has been up front with the media about the talent or lack there of, but sees improvement each and every day. The team is bulking up and getting fit, eating right for an athlete and all seem to be buying in to the new staff's regimen. That's all we can ask.
Hoping for a great year.
Question: How to differentiate between honeymoon hype and a quality coach?
Answer: Time and games.
Answer: Time and games.
I'm not going to get mad if we lose to OSU and get crushed. I wont cry if we get beat up pretty bad by MSU, or take a tough loss to UM. but yeah, I want to win AT LEAST half of the closer games against other B1G teams. I want to be competitive in almost every game save for maybe 1 or 2 at the most, and I want to win every single ooc game that we should. not going to be calling for firing Ash, but I do want to have a better year than last year - and we are not so horrible that we can't have a better one.
IMO he has done almost everything perfectly, including his response to Harbaugh's PC camp. To me, however, the first priority in rating the upcoming 2016 season is having the answer to the following question: Do we beat Penn St?
In the end he has a few years to show marked improvement. He will have some turn on him as soon as RU looses a few games. But fans who closely follow the team, the athletic dept, etc understand he will struggle for a few years in the big 10 with the current roster.
I disagree with you schiano teams always had fight. I was there close and personal and saw it. You have to give ash 5 plus years to get to 7 wins on s consistent basis. We won't be Ohio state anytime soon. Enjoy the ride.
Sometimes, you get a vibe that's undeniable,I get that with both new hires. Our AD has a feel for this stuff,I do believe.
Too many variables - sometimes a hype master can get an initial burst out of a team - but their lack of vision & structure will doom the long term ... while a visionary may need time to execute their plan.
Ash does come across as an excellent blend of ability to inspire & a mind that just explodes with planning structure. Some coaches could give you a lengthy generalized discussion about how they would run things - but not a lot of real 'structure' to it - it likely would sound OK - but real short on substance .....
Ash seems like the kind of guy that you could shake out of a sound sleep and say "Tell me how to build a winning P-5 program" and he would leap to a white board and start talking and vigorously writing ... drawing out process steps (with rough time frames) like the "textbook example" below (only more detailed) ... then snapping a picture of it with his cell (or if you have a high tech white board - just saving it)- and then doing the whole thing over & over for various other aspects of the process of putting a program on the right track.
I get the sense that his interview with Hobbs was a bit like this.... and Hobbs instantly realized that he had found a guy who could see the whole process - in detail & yet all at once ... and how to measure it & improve it. & how to relate to all of the participants in the process.... and had experience on a National Championship team -
Ash does come across as an excellent blend of ability to inspire & a mind that just explodes with planning structure. Some coaches could give you a lengthy generalized discussion about how they would run things - but not a lot of real 'structure' to it - it likely would sound OK - but real short on substance .....
Ash seems like the kind of guy that you could shake out of a sound sleep and say "Tell me how to build a winning P-5 program" and he would leap to a white board and start talking and vigorously writing ... drawing out process steps (with rough time frames) like the "textbook example" below (only more detailed) ... then snapping a picture of it with his cell (or if you have a high tech white board - just saving it)- and then doing the whole thing over & over for various other aspects of the process of putting a program on the right track.
I get the sense that his interview with Hobbs was a bit like this.... and Hobbs instantly realized that he had found a guy who could see the whole process - in detail & yet all at once ... and how to measure it & improve it. & how to relate to all of the participants in the process.... and had experience on a National Championship team -
You have to look at what Coach Ash has been able to infuse into all elements of the program so far. I immediately sense a huge lift in the attitude of the team in terms of toughness. The kids are proud of how hard they have been pushed and how hard they have worked. I think the enmity towards Flood (myself very much an example) was towards the complete lack of fight, toughness, accountability and willingness to take blame and make changes. Fans grew completely tired of his shtick. With Ash you sense he will leave no stone unturned until a solution is found. And there is certainly no hiding from accountability, both for him personally and his players. He handles the media well so far and to me; there is a sense of professionalism that allows us as fans to want to join him in the fight to lead us back towards the type of team we in "Rutgers world" enjoy supporting. There is no question we took enormous pride in how tough our defense was under Greg and how we punished teams with our running game. There was a toughness under Schiano that went missing under Flood. It is coming back under Ash.
I pretty much agree with this. I mean there are a lot of things to be positive about but you never really know until you know. I was never a Brady Hoke fan as a coach but look at him. Very good recruiting and even a very good first year and then what. All down hill from there. I feel better that Ash is a UM assistant and they have fairly good batting average but you never really know until you see some consistency over time. You see examples of good recruiting and flash in the pan seasons all the time.
This is a feel good period and it should be as we're in the initial stages of the hire and I just leave it at that.
True, it does. So OL coaches are doomed to always suck as HCs...LOL.
There are however many more examples of Championship-winning coordinators who failed as HCs. Although the jury may still be out on this one since he landed a new job, I think Will Muschamp failed miserably at UF after winning the BCS with LSU as DC. Randy Shannon failed at Miami after being the DC on the BCS-winning squad under Coker.
Offensive Linemen coaches have a different personality. They think about protecting the QB and protecting a lead in a game. Both Steve Addazio and Flood are very conservative on offense and run the ball too much, neither of them would ever approve of the spread offense even though they could never score that much or defend it.
Per Ruskie97 "... Each new coach always brings with him hope for better results, but I remember distinctly all the ebullient posts and positive articles each time a new coach comes in. Eventually it all goes down the crapper. How the heck does a person not get jaded?
Ever path has it's forks in the road, it is human nature with each new path is always uplifting till we hit the ruts.
New $$$ conference
New "REAL" AD << Hermann (hire by skullduggery was at least and Ass. AD) but we ate our own even if she disserved it.
New Head coach< always uplifting when you see the ENERY of youth and desire
New found "Rutgers" respect in a state of discontents (Oh yes NJ is full of disgruntled folks)
Jaded in power sports, but as a whole can not be jaded with Olympic sports WWB W/MLax M/W Soccer Wrestling etc. That said, a New century with a New conference, a New AD a Sharp Real AD, [banana]
As for Ash you need to let you heart go to this young, lover of the game, with kid excitement, smart young man.
How look at the MSU game last year we were within 2minutes of winning that game from a top 10 team. Expect to see close games (yes blow out are still on the docket) But the surprise upset is all you can hope for the w/l will be down the road a few years.
Also understand Rutgers' history with almost 150 years of FB we are a 50% winning team. In the past this was obtained by just "students" who loved extracurricular sports. Now expect ~50% W and you will be satisfied. (especially in the B1G East) we are going against top programs in the country 50%W will be hard enough)
But the fan is a Fanatic beast who eats wins and demands more with every win.
Accept reality and the jaded view should fade (It will be a long path with ruts in the way don't let that deter you view)
Ever path has it's forks in the road, it is human nature with each new path is always uplifting till we hit the ruts.
New $$$ conference
New "REAL" AD << Hermann (hire by skullduggery was at least and Ass. AD) but we ate our own even if she disserved it.
New Head coach< always uplifting when you see the ENERY of youth and desire
New found "Rutgers" respect in a state of discontents (Oh yes NJ is full of disgruntled folks)
Jaded in power sports, but as a whole can not be jaded with Olympic sports WWB W/MLax M/W Soccer Wrestling etc. That said, a New century with a New conference, a New AD a Sharp Real AD, [banana]
As for Ash you need to let you heart go to this young, lover of the game, with kid excitement, smart young man.
How look at the MSU game last year we were within 2minutes of winning that game from a top 10 team. Expect to see close games (yes blow out are still on the docket) But the surprise upset is all you can hope for the w/l will be down the road a few years.
Also understand Rutgers' history with almost 150 years of FB we are a 50% winning team. In the past this was obtained by just "students" who loved extracurricular sports. Now expect ~50% W and you will be satisfied. (especially in the B1G East) we are going against top programs in the country 50%W will be hard enough)
But the fan is a Fanatic beast who eats wins and demands more with every win.
Accept reality and the jaded view should fade (It will be a long path with ruts in the way don't let that deter you view)
I understand your concern, but the first (and possibly most important) thing to do is accept that yesterday is gone, and tomorrow hasn't come yet. Not to get all philosophical, but all we have is today. So that's all we can really evaluate. To me, today looks pretty damned good. And, it's not just about where we are at present but, based on actions we see today, where we're trending. Not only is Ash making what I believe are some really good moves overall, but the administration as a whole seems to finally be serious about walking the walk.
I mention the administration because THAT is the one thing that's really different this time around. Not only does the organizational will to win appear to be there, but the means to compete are on the way too. I think we're finally witnessing a change, not just in the culture of the football program, but in the entire athletic department. We've had good coaches here who could win and some who, despite it all, have won. Some of them just did some really dumb sh*t, and it cost the university. Others just didn't have good leadership (including proper oversight) and resources behind them. The Schiano years gave us a glimpse at what's possible here, but it's never been just about the coach. It's about the whole organization... not just talking "big time', but acting like it.
Latest posts
-
FB Recruiting 2025 Florida DT Jyon Simon commits to Rutgers, details decision- Latest: runrutgersrun
-
FB Recruiting 2024 Transfer Portal Thread -- Spring Window Edition- Latest: BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine