If we don't get Ndongo we'll get a portal player better than Hyatt.
Hyatt Officially Returning
- Thread starter MadRU
- Start date
I’m not crazy about Hyatt’s game, but I thought we have two more openings to fill even with Baye coming? Is that not the case? I highly doubt we pick up more than one portal addition (on top of Noah) who is better than Hyatt.
If everyone comes back and Baye stays committed we have 1 more open spot
Paul, Fernandes, Cam, Simpson, Davis, Gavin, Mag, Hyatt, Chol, Cliff, Wolf, Ndongo would make 12... but Pike has left one open spot before
fyi scholarship chart is pinned to the top of the bball board
Thanks - I was thinking that super seniors (Paul) don’t count towards the total. Is that rule not in place anymore?
If Baye doesn't come, we have two open slots. We'll try to fill one of those with someone who can help this year. A stretch 4/small ball 5 is what I hope for (like Ndongo might be) who would also be Mag contingency.
Could also see a 2/3 either a shooter type or athlete/defender who gets minutes when Griffiths slides to the 4- and would also be a matchup in practice for Griffiths.
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He's talented and experienced. He will take pressure off Gavin to perform immediately and Mag to get healthy. Their is zero downside to this. Welcome back Dre!
Regardless - if Baye comes we still have one more slot to fill even with Hyatt’s return. Beyond that one spot, if Hyatt were to have left, we would have 2 spots. We would not get 2 more portal guys better than Hyatt at this point. There’s no way. So his return should be welcomed by all.
I wasn't trying to imply that Hyatt's return is a bad thing. I think it's a good thing.
Especially since Hyatt has shown he's a good teammate regardless of playing time and Pike has shown he'll go with Hyatt when he's playing well and if he's not playing well he'll sit.
I was saying if they don't get Baye, they will need someone at that slot. Even if you think Hyatt is the best we can do for the game slot, look at the roster and how practice groups would line up.
The blind hatred by so called RU fans that don't like Hyatt is fine (haters are gonna hate, LMAO)......BUT as I always document and back up my comments with FACTS, there is zero chance Hyatt is a 8th or 9th man, unless we sign 3 other 4 or 5* kids that I don't currently see on the roster.
Let's take the time to actually look at the numbers.....the numbers and what role a player is asked to make, dictate the team results.
Let's assume that the "Hyatt is the 8th or 9th man" crowd, is correct.....it is certainly possible but IF that happens, these fans have to show me, where you are replacing.
A) 147 3 point attempts (2nd behind Spencer at 166)....30.6%
B) 45 made 3 point attempts (2nd behind Spencer at 73).
Let's keep in mind, if you care about games vs Central Connecticut State, then YES, a made 3 pointer is a made 3.....BUT the reality is, Hyatt's shooting is relatively reliable, irregardless of the caliber of the opponent.
On the other hand, Spencer, shot 27/50 from 3 point range against Q4 opponents, most of which were at the RAC and a game at Minnesota. Those 3s obviously count in your 3 point percentages, but when you upgrade the competition (caliber of opponent and defense), Spencer goes from 43.4% overall to 39.6% from 3.
Spencer is 46/116 against "real opponents. That takes out 9 Q4 games or 25 games of relevance.
Why am I mentioning Spencer, when the topic is Hyatt?? Because someone else not named Aundre Hyatt HAS to take or absorb Hyatts minutes AND has to take the approximate 150 3 point attempts.
Here are the numbers, before someone jumps in and says "Gavin Griffiths ".....the point is to not replicate a limited offense of last year, BUT to improve upon it.
Spencer 166 (73 made 3s)
Hyatt 147 (45 made 3s)
McConnell 64 (13 made 3s)
Simpson 60 (13 made 3s)
Mulcahy 54 (20 made 3s)
Oskar 33 (12 made 3s)
Mag 30 (9 made 3s)
Cliff 22 (4 made 3s
Reiber 21 (5 made 3s).
Someone has to TAKE and MAKE 3s.....we are subtracting 64, 33 & 21 from Caleb, Oskar and Reiber.
Oskar and Reiber are kinda the 4 man, where Hyatt plays. That opens up another 54 available 3s, that someone has to take, from the lineup.
If you don't play Hyatt 20 to 24 minutes a game, someone else not named Gavin Griffith has to absorb the 150 or so 3s that Aundre took AND the 50+ threes that Oskar and Reiber took.
In math, that's 200 3s that fans who don't want Hyatt to play, has to get taken by someone else.
Your choices (unless we pull a rabbit out of a hat like 5* Mgbako) OR we get Baye Ndongo to sign, are the following players.
Mag (not a true shooter) but maybe he can take 30 to 40 more next year.
Mulcahy (clearly can be a catch and shoot guy, but not a quick release and volume shooter). He is also a known quantity and is NOT known as a person who looks for his shot.
Gavin Griffiths (to me) has to take 180 to 200 3 point attempts AND someone else not named Hyatt has to take the other 150, IF Hyatt doesn't play or is "9th man".....LMAO.
It doesn't add up folks. If Mgbako picks RU, problems are solved.....if Ndongo signs and is ready to go.....RU then becomes dangerous and improves.
Hyatt has carved out a role on this roster, like him or not. Subtracting his numbers from the equation and asking Mawot Mag, Paul Mulcahy and other non shooters to make up those 3s, doesn't add up.
Let's take the time to actually look at the numbers.....the numbers and what role a player is asked to make, dictate the team results.
Let's assume that the "Hyatt is the 8th or 9th man" crowd, is correct.....it is certainly possible but IF that happens, these fans have to show me, where you are replacing.
A) 147 3 point attempts (2nd behind Spencer at 166)....30.6%
B) 45 made 3 point attempts (2nd behind Spencer at 73).
Let's keep in mind, if you care about games vs Central Connecticut State, then YES, a made 3 pointer is a made 3.....BUT the reality is, Hyatt's shooting is relatively reliable, irregardless of the caliber of the opponent.
On the other hand, Spencer, shot 27/50 from 3 point range against Q4 opponents, most of which were at the RAC and a game at Minnesota. Those 3s obviously count in your 3 point percentages, but when you upgrade the competition (caliber of opponent and defense), Spencer goes from 43.4% overall to 39.6% from 3.
Spencer is 46/116 against "real opponents. That takes out 9 Q4 games or 25 games of relevance.
Why am I mentioning Spencer, when the topic is Hyatt?? Because someone else not named Aundre Hyatt HAS to take or absorb Hyatts minutes AND has to take the approximate 150 3 point attempts.
Here are the numbers, before someone jumps in and says "Gavin Griffiths ".....the point is to not replicate a limited offense of last year, BUT to improve upon it.
Spencer 166 (73 made 3s)
Hyatt 147 (45 made 3s)
McConnell 64 (13 made 3s)
Simpson 60 (13 made 3s)
Mulcahy 54 (20 made 3s)
Oskar 33 (12 made 3s)
Mag 30 (9 made 3s)
Cliff 22 (4 made 3s
Reiber 21 (5 made 3s).
Someone has to TAKE and MAKE 3s.....we are subtracting 64, 33 & 21 from Caleb, Oskar and Reiber.
Oskar and Reiber are kinda the 4 man, where Hyatt plays. That opens up another 54 available 3s, that someone has to take, from the lineup.
If you don't play Hyatt 20 to 24 minutes a game, someone else not named Gavin Griffith has to absorb the 150 or so 3s that Aundre took AND the 50+ threes that Oskar and Reiber took.
In math, that's 200 3s that fans who don't want Hyatt to play, has to get taken by someone else.
Your choices (unless we pull a rabbit out of a hat like 5* Mgbako) OR we get Baye Ndongo to sign, are the following players.
Mag (not a true shooter) but maybe he can take 30 to 40 more next year.
Mulcahy (clearly can be a catch and shoot guy, but not a quick release and volume shooter). He is also a known quantity and is NOT known as a person who looks for his shot.
Gavin Griffiths (to me) has to take 180 to 200 3 point attempts AND someone else not named Hyatt has to take the other 150, IF Hyatt doesn't play or is "9th man".....LMAO.
It doesn't add up folks. If Mgbako picks RU, problems are solved.....if Ndongo signs and is ready to go.....RU then becomes dangerous and improves.
Hyatt has carved out a role on this roster, like him or not. Subtracting his numbers from the equation and asking Mawot Mag, Paul Mulcahy and other non shooters to make up those 3s, doesn't add up.
This is great news just from a culture standpoint.
Hyatt is flawed but is important depth piece. He can stretch the floor sometimes, rebound, play solid D. I’m sure he could’ve dropped down a level and played 30 mins a night elsewhere. This shows tremendous commitment to the team over self.
Right before Mag went down, Pike was experimenting with Hyatt at the 5 for short stretches. Idk if that is possible without Caleb anchoring the D but a small ball lineup to give us a different look when trailing or based on matchups could be intriguing. Obviously not possible against some bigs but Pike has a very flexible roster as of now.
Hyatt is flawed but is important depth piece. He can stretch the floor sometimes, rebound, play solid D. I’m sure he could’ve dropped down a level and played 30 mins a night elsewhere. This shows tremendous commitment to the team over self.
Right before Mag went down, Pike was experimenting with Hyatt at the 5 for short stretches. Idk if that is possible without Caleb anchoring the D but a small ball lineup to give us a different look when trailing or based on matchups could be intriguing. Obviously not possible against some bigs but Pike has a very flexible roster as of now.
Hopefully, we take considerably more 3's this season than last season. With Griffiths at or higher than your numbers and Cam getting more than last year with the addition of Griffiths and Fernandes
Fernandes will get up 100+
I don't hate Hyatt. I don't see why it has to be "You better believe Hyatt is our 6th man or you must hate him"
I hope Cliff (or his replacement if he leaves), Mag, Griffiths, Cam, Fernandes, Ndongo (or Xfer if he doesn't come), Paul all get more minutes than Hyatt does.
Not high on Hyatt. Hope he greatly improves. Smart move to get his masters.
Yes - for sure as we would need depth. Either way, as much as I’m not bullish on Hyatt seeing major minutes - there was never a chance we were landing 3 additional players (whether Baye is one of them or not) who would all be better options than Hyatt. So his return is a net positive. If Hyatt left, we would have 3 spots to fill including Baye’s.
Agreed, whatever you think of him as a player, it's fantastic that he's able to do that.
Based on the rotations at the end of last season, there’s virtually no chance that Hyatt will start at the expense of Paul. Especially not at the 3. The only way Hyatt starts is if Mag isn’t ready to go yet as of the season opener. It would be at the 4.
Hyatt's 3 points attempts can go to Gavin and Fernandes who you didn't even mention for some reason. Pretty easy answer
Why would we need 2 players better than Hyatt if Ndongo leaves? All we would need is 1 and Hyatt's role would be greatly reduced if he was behind the portal addition and Mag
You missed a huge factor. All of these words and analysis without a single mention of Fernandes, who figures to play 25+ minutes per game and is a career 37.6% 3Pt shooter on 3.4 attempts per game. At UMass his percentages and attempts per game were both higher than that (38.6% on 4.4 attempts per game). Fernandes will take the 3s that you figure Hyatt will be taking, and converting at a much higher rate.
You are one of the most consistent Hyatt backers and Mulcahy critics on this board. As a junior when he was not asked to play PG all the time, Mulcahy put up 75 3s and converted at a 34.7% rate. With Fernandes coming to run the show and Simpson emerging as a ball handler, I think Mulcahy returns to the point forward position where he excelled. Figure in an extra 20+ attempts from deep for Paul this year, especially if he heals up from the shoulder problems that clearly bothered him all season long.
We wouldn’t. That’s the point. We don’t even need 1 and we certainly wouldn’t land 2. With or without Baye, Hyatt will be way better than the long shot practice body we would end up bringing in to backfill his spot.
This is the problem with Mulcahy returning and Pike's loyalty. He has no game on either end. As a frontcourt bench player, great. Anything more, no thanks.
In addition, this is shaping up to be a faster paced offense than we've had before and Paul would be a fish out of water in a faster game.
Let’s say we land either Baye or Mgbako. We’d have one of those 2 along with Mag. In that case, it would not be critically necessary to land another 4 who would come in materially better than Hyatt to be relied on as 3rd string. Even if we somehow did land a steal in the portal, we would not be landing 2 more steals in the portal if Hyatt had left. We don’t have enough playing time available.
I don't know about next year but Paul closed out the season with a much better post season than Hyatt. It’s not even close.
In those last 3 games, Paul was 10-18 from the field and 4-7 from 3. He racked up 5 assists per game.
In the 2 BIG tourney games he had 5 steals along with 9 rebounds. It’s hard to argue Hyatt should’ve played more over him when in the 15 minutes Hyatt did get those games he made only 1 shot on 6 attempt and did not record another stat (no rebounds, assists, or steals). The bench was where he belonged in those games. If he’s not shooting well, I think his minutes will be limited.
Next year's team will probably be the best 3 point shooting team we have had in decades
We all love Caleb but his 20% from 3 last year will be gone along with Dean's 24%, Miller 0-2.
Oskar is the only plus 3 point shooter gone, but he also wasn't in the rotation until injuries. He maybe could have carved out some minutes since he passed Hyatt late but unlikely he would be in the main rotation
Caleb minutes will be replaced with Paul and Gavin at the 3 spot which is likely 15% minimum increase
Spencer, obviously a sniper who potentially can see more open looks this season with more offense help around him
Fernandes huge addition to take 3's and create looks for others
Mag started to come on before his injury and when he's healthy enough I'm sure he will be getting tons of shooting reps in
Simpson really can't shoot any worse than last season's 22%. The question is how much better? Ideally he really ups it to at least 30% or so
Hyatt is pretty consistently in the high 20's with his best year last season at 30%. He may be able to shoot a better percentage at a lower volume next season with some of his attempts going to Gavin Fernandes and Spencer
Davis in a small role TBD what type of 3 point shooter he is. Chol was supposedly the best 3 point shooter in camp last year so there is at least potential but he figures to be end of the bench type. Maybe he can surprise if he takes a big jump forward this season. Cliff hopefully only the very rare 3 unless he significantly improved. Wolf didn't even take mid range shots so he's a no
Then there is one more player. If it's Ndongo or Mgbako then they are capable 3 point shooters. If neither, TBD to see who the portal replacement is but potentially its a stretch 4/5 who can shoot
Bottom line we want the majority of our 3 point attempts to be taken by Spencer Gavin and Fernandes. If that happens, which seems pretty likely, Rutgers should really be a top 5 or so type 3 point shooting team in the B1G next season
We all love Caleb but his 20% from 3 last year will be gone along with Dean's 24%, Miller 0-2.
Oskar is the only plus 3 point shooter gone, but he also wasn't in the rotation until injuries. He maybe could have carved out some minutes since he passed Hyatt late but unlikely he would be in the main rotation
Caleb minutes will be replaced with Paul and Gavin at the 3 spot which is likely 15% minimum increase
Spencer, obviously a sniper who potentially can see more open looks this season with more offense help around him
Fernandes huge addition to take 3's and create looks for others
Mag started to come on before his injury and when he's healthy enough I'm sure he will be getting tons of shooting reps in
Simpson really can't shoot any worse than last season's 22%. The question is how much better? Ideally he really ups it to at least 30% or so
Hyatt is pretty consistently in the high 20's with his best year last season at 30%. He may be able to shoot a better percentage at a lower volume next season with some of his attempts going to Gavin Fernandes and Spencer
Davis in a small role TBD what type of 3 point shooter he is. Chol was supposedly the best 3 point shooter in camp last year so there is at least potential but he figures to be end of the bench type. Maybe he can surprise if he takes a big jump forward this season. Cliff hopefully only the very rare 3 unless he significantly improved. Wolf didn't even take mid range shots so he's a no
Then there is one more player. If it's Ndongo or Mgbako then they are capable 3 point shooters. If neither, TBD to see who the portal replacement is but potentially its a stretch 4/5 who can shoot
Bottom line we want the majority of our 3 point attempts to be taken by Spencer Gavin and Fernandes. If that happens, which seems pretty likely, Rutgers should really be a top 5 or so type 3 point shooting team in the B1G next season
Odd neglect of Fernandes here.
I'm fairly certain the combination of Fernandes and Griffiths will yield at least 45 made threes, and it's likely they will do it in fewer than 147 attempts.
In his last full season at UMass, Fernandes was 45/125 from the arc, and Griffiths comes in specifically as a shooter.
Having other perimeter threats should also free up Spencer for more looks than he had last year, too.
Yeah it was an odd post. How do you replace 147 3-pt attempts? Anyone can take more 3s and miss them at a high percentage.
GG should replace Caleb’s 64 attempts and hopefully shoots at a higher percentage. His defense will dictate if he gets enough PT to up the shot count.
Noah shoots a lot of 3s. He will replace Hyatt’s 3s off the bat. And do so at a better percentage clip. End of story.
Crucial point there.
Paul is decent overall but especially from the corners - hopefully they take advantage of that
The definition of a "good shot" will be different with better offensive players on the floor, hopefully the coaching staff and players adjust to that.
My take from watching games is Paul tended to push the ball up the court quickly more often than not. The problem was that Paul was passing it up to Caleb or others who you don't want taking a quick shot, or Cam who seemed reluctant to take a quick shot. I think Paul could be good pushing the ball up the court with more scorers around him.
Caleb was the one who seemed to want to walk the ball up the court and slow things down.
I'm interested to see what the offense looks like when Fernandes is the one pushing the ball up court since he can do it with more speed than Paul
Passing is faster than dribbling - I get what you're saying but I thought Paul made the quick pass upcourt well, just wasn't passing up to anyone who had the skills to get a good quick shot. Still I'm excited to see what Fernandes brings in that aspect - Griffiths and Cam sprinting to corners - should be fun.
I found Paul's corner 3 numbers - 52.9% on corner 3's on 0.6 attempts a game
Cam was 46.4 on 0.8 attempts/game on corner 3's
Mag 40% on 0.7/game
Hyatt 35% on 1.7/game
The corner 3 = best shot in basketball
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Wow I knew Paul hit that corner 3 well but 50% damnnn. Low volume but encouraging to see with Paul very likely to spend more time off the ball this yearPassing is faster than dribbling - I get what you're saying but I thought Paul made the quick pass upcourt well, just wasn't passing up to anyone who had the skills to get a good quick shot. Still I'm excited to see what Fernandes brings in that aspect - Griffiths and Cam sprinting to corners - should be fun.
I found Paul's corner 3 numbers - 52.9% on corner 3's on 0.6 attempts a game
Cam was 46.4 on 0.8 attempts/game on corner 3's
Mag 40% on 0.7/game
Hyatt 35% on 1.7/game
The corner 3 = best shot in basketball
need to login but can get some great stuff free
Mag and Hyatt's numbers good also with Hyatt having a decent sample size
I hadn't seen those numbers before, most shoot better from corners, but those seem especially high.
With Fernandes quickness and hopefully Griffiths getting paint touches, the number of corner 3's we shoot should improve substantially.
Griffiths corner 3's in transition are lethal. He's fast, legit 6'7", w/quick release, you gotta run size at him and he attacks closeouts. Transition and semi-transition should be a whole new world for us.
Both Paul and Cam consistently push the ball up the court with good pace to explore options in transition/semi-transition - the options were limited.
Once things got past that point, they're both deliberate for sure. But they both look for early opportunities, and that will fit very well with the newcomers.
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