I’m in the minority here…but I would prefer to keep this group INTACT
- Thread starter Scarlet Shack
- Start date
Hyatt has already played this role at separate times in two seasons. He has shown he’s fine with it.
The question is - how much of the drop off was a result of no longer having 2 elite defenders on the court the majority of the game? You replaced Mag’s defense mostly with Hyatt or Oskar. Major drop off. And you didn’t get more offense either.
I understand the love for Paul! Nj kid, bleeds Scarlet red, tough etc. Everyone who loves him knows this and describes him that way. Come off the bench and provide that grit . As far as winning goes all of that does not translate into wins of your not a productive player. We won’t go into inbound plays, turnovers, kicking, punches, 8 game meltdown out of the tournament.. Those attributes are great and he is loved for them but they did. Lt translate into winning when we needed it. He was a senior running point with a team second in the big ten with 8 to go.
Great guy great for the program and I hope he comes back to coach or help on the staff.
Not going to allow this....it's a sad commentary.....I could say Cliff was hurt and lost explosiveness...I could say Caleb was hurt, he barely practiced and gutted it out.....I could say anything, if I wanted to throw an unknown or assumed item......why don't we assume everyone is banged up....which was the case......you still have to play through it.
Instead of making excuses, why we can't just acknowledge, that Mulcahy's replacement is far more impactful than anyone else's on the roster for next year??
Mulcahy is a solid player IF....IF, he plays solid consistent basketball. His track record and style of play is too erratic and too inconsistent to be counted on at 32 to 34MPG. I have 2 straight years of evidence, why would I assume that it will be drastically different next year?
You had 3 issues (in addition to Mag gone)
1. Significant drop off in replacement
2. A team that hit a wall
3. Paul’s play falling off a cliff
Hyatt plays no defense. My take is Pike was forced to do something about this late the season
The jog back after a missed 3 vs PSU was a turning point
NJH,
You have evidence showing….
1. Paul at his best (1st team B1G player)
2. Paul at his worst (yuck)
3. Paul in between
I have my fantasy baseball draft coming up on Monday. Tons of players I have to figure out what am I going to get.
Is Stanton worth anything?
Do ignore Hader down the stretch?
What do I make of the KC 1st baseman Vinnie P?
You have evidence showing….
1. Paul at his best (1st team B1G player)
2. Paul at his worst (yuck)
3. Paul in between
I have my fantasy baseball draft coming up on Monday. Tons of players I have to figure out what am I going to get.
Is Stanton worth anything?
Do ignore Hader down the stretch?
What do I make of the KC 1st baseman Vinnie P?
The “we were a five seed in January” argument is based on make believe.
There’s no such thing. Yes they were playing welll in a lot of one possesion games. But making this argument you are counting for 100% win probability in the games you won where win probabilities were much closer to 40-60%, and then assuming that the last 8 games, where win probability was again was close to the same, would’ve been likely wins.
There’s no such thing. Yes they were playing welll in a lot of one possesion games. But making this argument you are counting for 100% win probability in the games you won where win probabilities were much closer to 40-60%, and then assuming that the last 8 games, where win probability was again was close to the same, would’ve been likely wins.
Agree on all points
To expand on further reason I’m torn about paul ..
The kid is a true knight. Was part of the core that turned RU around. So it doesn’t feel right, at all, to now show the kid the door!! But I’m afraid like others that pikes loyalty/ gratitude to him will cause pike to give him more minutes at PG than he should be getting (if he continues to play like he did)
Also, it sure seemed like he was injured. The shoulder for sure was messed up big time through til the end. And I doubt that was all. But what if he’s able to come back fully healthy next year? Could we get more of the “all world paul” (or remotely close to it) that we saw for a good stretch the prior season. Is “that paul” still in him potentially? I’d take “that paul” back in a heart beat!!!
Lastly, I think the biggest question is what would we have if he left. Simpson certainly showed flashes but I’m still not convinced that he’s ready to run the offense for long stretches. Is j. Davis capable? If not “yes” to both then we need an experienced, good PG. So does every team though!!! Gonna be a lot of competition to get a good experienced PG
You're ignoring what the coach did, instead of looking at what happened. Maybe Pike had a blind spot for Paul.....Maybe he was wayyy too loyal and played Paul when he wasn't producing.
If Pike pulled back on Mulcahy way sooner in the year, it is my "educated guess", that Simpson would have been more ready in late January and February and RU would have made the NCAAs.....BUT it would have required Pike making the adjustment.
I will ask the question again, if Mulcahy is the lowest scoring guard in the entire B1G, how does that matter less than a 6th man off the bench, playing 22 to 23MPG??
Find a transfer wing willing to play anywhere from 5-15 minutes a game better than Hyatt? Not sure I want to take my chances there. We’ve already seen difficulty in adding depth positions through portal.
Find a transfer guard willing to play anywhere from 25-32 minutes a game who’s better than Paul? I like those odds we have a lot to offer and have added quality starters at the guard position in the past.
This is the practical part of this discussion. You can’t just construct a roster in franchise mode or a video game you need to manage people and expectations.
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Disagree all you want. One situation we’ve succeeded via portal MULTIPLE TIMES, the other we have yet to accomplish once.
Soo.....are you saying that the key to improving and making RU better, is by replacing 30.6% shooting from 3 and 8.8PPG off the bench BUT not replacing 8.3PPG and a starting guard playing 32 to 34 MPG....??
Let's assume the Hyatt replacement is 35% from 3, in the same 23 MPG and we go from 8.8 PPG, to 10.3PPG.
What do we do to get Mulcahy from 8.3 to 13PPG....?? I'll wait......
I would really like for Paul to come back but it couldn't be in a role where he was largely running our offense. The offense is much too static with Paul there. He either orchestrates from outside the top of the arc or inch by inch backs his defender with no motion around him. I could see him in this role part time but primariy on the wing.
I hear you and many others…but here is the thing , you aren’t going to do this one season. It’s a 2-3 year process …and next year is the bridge year
We can middle ground this next and keep the roster mostly intact …and morph to a quicker style when Warren , and hopefully (likely in my book!) one or both of Dylan and kur teng is here
I can give a flying you know what about how much a player scores. I do care about how a player impacts a team's offensive production. If Paul scored 6 PPG but kept the ball moving and got us in offensive sets AND most importantly improved our points per possession. I don't care how we do it, but we have to do it.
Does Pike have a blind spot for Paul? We both know the answer.
In hindsight should Pike have taken the training wheels off of Simpson? We both know the answer
Did '22-'23 desparately need a guard who can take people off the dribble ? We both know the answer
If Gavin plays like a 5 star and Cam continues to be a threat and Cliff improves and is a beast....I am not certain the keys would be better in Derek's hands than Paul's.
I honestly don't know what to think of Simpson. We was so bad for most of the season. He was a freshman. He obviously showed signs the last few games. I still don't know what to make of Paul. There are really no comparisons, at least that I know of, of paul's skill set. No toolbox like it.
We need to find closers on the fast break. I love Mag, Caleb and Paul, but none of them were good finishers on fast breaks. Simpson definitely has that potential but need to find another guy in the portal who knows how to finish
iMO …Paul roll needs to be redefined next year
No one shoukd be playing 34 minutes …my biggest pike beef early in the year then mag got hurt
Paul 26 minutes come 14 mpg as a back up to Simpson at the point and 12 minutes in the “point forward “ spot
No one shoukd be playing 34 minutes …my biggest pike beef early in the year then mag got hurt
Paul 26 minutes come 14 mpg as a back up to Simpson at the point and 12 minutes in the “point forward “ spot
On a 40 minute basis....
Paul 8 per 40
Cam 18 per 40
Gavin 18 per 40
Mag 10 per 40
Cliff 18 per 40
That's 72.
Is that pie in the sky?
72 walks the dog.
May not agree with you on everything, but still make sure I read everything you post. You are one of the most valuable posters here.
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The falloff of Paul’s play from the beginning to the end of the season makes it most plausible that he played hurt. On layups Paul constantly used his right on when driving left. Leads me to think an injury to left arm or shoulder was the reason
Paul played 5 straight games in the 2021-22 season, that was 1st team all caliber. He showed nothing close to that run, with any consistency.
When the team needed a starter to play better, we didn't get it.
I have 2, 12, 2, 6, 9, 0, 6, 8, 8, 10, 9 from Mulcahy in the last 11 games played after scoring 17 in 1 half vs MSU at MSG.
That 72 points in 11 games played. ....its 6.55 PPG at 32 MPG.
Am I supposed to ignore 11 straight games?? Tell me anything else matters more than this, and don't throw out cliches or anything general.
Greene …here is the thing about Paul . There was periods of “bad Paul” where he would be dribbling 25-30 feet from the bucket with the back to the basket for the first 15-18 seconds of the shot clock …if he can’t get a ball screen at 21 feet, his ability to get going downhill before help defense arrives was a major issue. Indiana road game was first time that an opponent got determined to do that and his narrative changed with that game as oooownts defensed is different
Paul is good for the back up minutes ar the point guard and playing multiple positions to get his 26 minutes…he adds more total value to the team this way (thibk 2020-2021 with geo and Jacob in the guard spot)…with more scoring around him next year …
Its not a Mulcahy vs Hyatt thing
Its a Hyatt thing and what he bring or does not bring to the table
Mulcahy is a seperate issue
I can't sugarcoat anything here. Forgeting the numbers he carried himself terribly and didn't feel like he was in control. Couldn't take his constant complaining to the refs and cant excuse his behavior on one or 2 plays.
Yes...Paul is going uphill when a defender has him 30 feet and we need a screen just to initiate offense.
Was that because he was hurt or opposition figured us out?
If we have weapons at 3 1/2 of positions on the court I don't know if I want my PG going downhill. There is a fine line between Nowell going downhill and Quinnerly going down hill and hijacking the offense.
Assuming everyone is back the ideal scenario is both on the court a lot of the time. A lot of things is opponent dependent.
Maybe I am wrong about Simpson and he turns a corner from a "scoring" PG to a "balanced" PG.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Idk anyone who watches the ncaa tourney and sees teams flying around the court, playing with tempo, and shooting tons of 3’s and then thinks, damn Rutgers couldve done damage lol. We and the big ten as a whole stinks and arent built for march
Agree. If Pike had made the switch to Simpson say 5 games before the end of the regular season instead of waiting until the post season we probably 1) beat Minnesota and 2) make the NCAA’s.
Cam averaged 11.5PPG against Power 5 teams not named Minnesota.
Gavin is not scoring 18PPG
Let's try this one instead, since 18, 18 and 18 with 3 teammates is impossible. Below is your BEST case scenario, if the guard replacing Mulcahy is a Top of the half B1G caliber player.
Simpson/Davis 12 per 40
TBD guard 12 per 30
Cam 10 per 30
Gavin 10 per 25
Mag/Ngongo 10 per 25
Hyatt 7 per 20
Cliff/TBD big 14 per 30
That's 75PPG, which is true assumptions on more transition baskets, better shooting from Ngongo, Gavin and new guard and Simpson elevated to more minutes.
That's 200 minutes and Sweet 16 caliber
Hawk is so desperate to defend his Hyatt should start over Mag and Mag isn't a B1G player he's trying to turn it into a Hyatt vs Paul debate based on Hyatt scoring more than Paul
Makes no sense
Makes no sense
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Idk. Simpson aint exactly a world beater. At least he wasnt this year. He shot 40% from the field, 21% from 3 and was 8th in the big ten for turnovers on offense (bad).
If Hyatt turned up court with the ball at Minnesota instead of passing back to Paul, we avoid our worst loss and very well could have danced. I won't promise it because the committee apparently had a mindset of limiting B1G bids.
Hyatt might not be happy with fewer shots and minutes. One of his postgame interviews after a win gave me that impression. I cannot say for sure. But he is NOT an outside shooting threat despite having a few good games. He is NOT a plus defender. He scored because he had a high usage rate IMO. If he is back, I will root for him to continue his growth. If he transfers, I think what we got from him this year is relatively easy to replace on the portal.
Hawk, you've been anti-Paul pretty much all season so I am not surprised to see it here. I don't think it is a "Paul or Hyatt" decision either, as each has different pluses and minuses. Paul's shoulder and later on his back were clearly issues all year long. If he returns, I agree it should be as the 2nd string PG and a point forward, playing fewer minutes.
Bring in more overall talent and then play the best but be fair to the rest.
Hyatt might not be happy with fewer shots and minutes. One of his postgame interviews after a win gave me that impression. I cannot say for sure. But he is NOT an outside shooting threat despite having a few good games. He is NOT a plus defender. He scored because he had a high usage rate IMO. If he is back, I will root for him to continue his growth. If he transfers, I think what we got from him this year is relatively easy to replace on the portal.
Hawk, you've been anti-Paul pretty much all season so I am not surprised to see it here. I don't think it is a "Paul or Hyatt" decision either, as each has different pluses and minuses. Paul's shoulder and later on his back were clearly issues all year long. If he returns, I agree it should be as the 2nd string PG and a point forward, playing fewer minutes.
Bring in more overall talent and then play the best but be fair to the rest.
I don’t think he turned it into a Hyatt v paul debate at all. Everything needs to be considered in roster construction. The upside of replacing different players and likelihood of realizing it are very relevant to that discussion.
My numbers are per 40 minutes.
I share your concerns about Cam, but hope replacing Caleb with Gavin helps a bit with spacing and helps Cam
I share your concerns about Cam, but hope replacing Caleb with Gavin helps a bit with spacing and helps Cam
Precisely. That’s why we need another for depth and if Mag doesn’t return to his prior form.
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