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I’m in the minority here…but I would prefer to keep this group INTACT

Scarlet Shack

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Feb 4, 2004
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Guys

I’ve watched enough ncaa games this year to know that when we’re healthy , (including mag), we were right there to be very competitive in the ncaa tournament

So …I’m not sure why, other than the bitter snub on selection Sunday coming from the fall off when we slumped post Mag, we don’t want to come back a year wiser , more developed and make a run

We were 9-5 (and shoukd have been 10-4) with our full roster this year , and only two of those wins were OOC cupcakes in late December .

Certainly , Caleb will be missed on the defensive end and toughness ….the reality was miller and Palmquist didn’t get off the bench untik mag got hurt

So, from our core 7 (Paul, cam, Caleb, Mawot, cliff , Derek and Aundre)…6 return

And we add
Gavin Griftths
Baye Ndongo
JaMichael Davis

And hopefully a more developed Antoine wolfolk

Let’s add a 5th year guard and go with it …and save the scholarships for the class of 2024

This has the makings of a very very good team for 2023-2024…picking up from where we left off from the Madison square garden win before injuries reallt got us….that’s much deeper and potentially doesn’t need to thread the needle with such a small holeto be a potential sweet 16 team

Sure …it requires cliff coming back, Paul getting healthy and coming back ready to finish this out right , it requires Hyatt coming back , and Mawot gettinf and staying healthy …

Sone ifs…but I think we are better off staying the course …we were close until the lack of depth really got exposed ..and I think we have fixed that for next year

Let’s stay the course ….
 
I agree - I’d like Cliff, Paul, and Hyatt to return. “Old” and experienced teams are generally the ones that make March runs, and I like the idea of keeping this experience while adding the freshmen and a portal player or two (combo guard and combo forward).

Simpson would have the ball in his hands at the top of the key, and Paul would be more on the wing. Imagine Derek dribble driving with Cliff in the lane and Gavin, Cam, and Paul on the wings…
 
I think everyone does want everyone back.

However end of last year made clear Paul can’t stay at primary point. Everyone would take him as a back up but we don’t think he would do it. Hyatt has already proven he will play whatever role Pike wants.

So realistically for our team to improve we will hopefully return:

Cliff
Hyatt

And then realistically Paul won’t likely comeback in a reduced role but if he does great.

This is essentially running it back with same core and a lot of experience.
 
If 6 of your core 7 return you don’t have enough minutes for the 3 FR and you can’t play the Sophs more without taking time from your core and then why do you want them back?

“If we didn’t have any injuries “ is not a good predictor Teams always have injuries

Same core means bubble again. We can do better
 
Imo, next year I:

- Need Cliff back
- Want Paul back (healthy and off the ball, less minutes)

No offense to Hyatt, but it’s probably time for him to move on, unless he’s okay with being the 7th guy.
Agreed! Ideally add a more athletic wing who can shoot! Someone who can give us strong minutes at the forward position.

Also a center to back up Cliff from the portal. Wolfe should be a good player for us (great hands and feet) just needs another year to develop more.

Paul coming back in leadership role as a versatile wing based on matchups. Give us a strong 18-20 min a game would be nice. Pike’s loyalties to him could be a problem but hopefully Pike has learned too.
 
I'm in the "hope Paul comes back club".

1). There are more net positives to have a 5th year starter back than negatives. Leadership is important at the guard position. Ask Purdue.
2). Paul would play better with increased talent around him and more competition. He wouldn't feel the pressure to do as much.
3). Paul's performance started to spiral downward once the pressure was on after Mag's injury. When the season was desperate, his play was too. As long as he plays to his strengths, he's a huge net positive to our team.

There 's a lot of "ifs" with Paul, but the entire team will be this way next year. IF mag comes back healthy, IF Cliff some back, IF Wolf takes the next step. If you add a couple of scoring options to this team and Paul could just be a distributor, would be the best scenario.
 
Guys

I’ve watched enough ncaa games this year to know that when we’re healthy , (including mag), we were right there to be very competitive in the ncaa tournament

So …I’m not sure why, other than the bitter snub on selection Sunday coming from the fall off when we slumped post Mag, we don’t want to come back a year wiser , more developed and make a run

We were 9-5 (and shoukd have been 10-4) with our full roster this year , and only two of those wins were OOC cupcakes in late December .

Certainly , Caleb will be missed on the defensive end and toughness ….the reality was miller and Palmquist didn’t get off the bench untik mag got hurt

So, from our core 7 (Paul, cam, Caleb, Mawot, cliff , Derek and Aundre)…6 return

And we add
Gavin Griftths
Baye Ndongo
JaMichael Davis

And hopefully a more developed Antoine wolfolk

Let’s add a 5th year guard and go with it …and save the scholarships for the class of 2024

This has the makings of a very very good team for 2023-2024…picking up from where we left off from the Madison square garden win before injuries reallt got us….that’s much deeper and potentially doesn’t need to thread the needle with such a small holeto be a potential sweet 16 team

Sure …it requires cliff coming back, Paul getting healthy and coming back ready to finish this out right , it requires Hyatt coming back , and Mawot gettinf and staying healthy …

Sone ifs…but I think we are better off staying the course …we were close until the lack of depth really got exposed ..and I think we have fixed that for next year

Let’s stay the course ….
Better off if Paul & Andre move on.
 
Milo,

I think in terms of 15 units. 160/15 is close to 11.

Cam 2
Paul 1.5
Mag 2
Gavin 2
Derek 1.5
Baye 1
Davis 1

For the other 40
Cliff-wolf/Reiber

This is why I agree with Shack with Sjanowski addendum.
 
I think everyone does want everyone back.

However end of last year made clear Paul can’t stay at primary point. Everyone would take him as a back up but we don’t think he would do it. Hyatt has already proven he will play whatever role Pike wants.

So realistically for our team to improve we will hopefully return:

Cliff
Hyatt

And then realistically Paul won’t likely comeback in a reduced role but if he does great.

This is essentially running it back with same core and a lot of experience.

Hyatt proved the opposite by seasons end
 
Milo,

I think in terms of 15 units. 160/15 is close to 11.

Cam 2
Paul 1.5
Mag 2
Gavin 2
Derek 1.5
Baye 1
Davis 1

For the other 40
Cliff-wolf/Reiber

This is why I agree with Shack with Sjanowski addendum.
Derek should have a higher share in this scenario. Good chance Dean is in the portal within a week or so.
 
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The current group is too slow play suspect defense and either can't or won't make a shot. Must get faster and more athletic and not have constant empty possessions. Let's move along with the portal please. There are some quality players out there.
 
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Im not interested in Hyatt coming back

Did people not pay attention to what happened the last 5-6 games and the sub pattern

Bac …

I hear you …and I was frustrated with his tailspin at the end of the year …but keep in mind he stsrted to be needed to do different things in mag absence

He is a 15 minute guy that has can have a productive role for us …but see below, it can go either way, depending on the frosh readiness and development
 
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Imo, next year I:

- Need Cliff back
- Want Paul back (healthy and off the ball, less minutes)

No offense to Hyatt, but it’s probably time for him to move on, unless he’s okay with being the 7th guy.

Agree …I actually think we play 9 next year and he would be Below number 7…

If Hyatt doesn’t come back …this would be my rotation

In my ideal world
Cliff 28
Cam 26
Paul 26
Derek 26
Mawot 26
Gavin 26
Baye 18
5th year guard or Davis -12
Wolf-12

Not in rotation
5th year guard or Davis
Reiber (if he returns )
Chol
Whoever fills Hyatt ship if he doesn’t return

So Hyatt returning does take minutes away from Gavin and Baye…so maybe he is clogging up the rotation and development of the young guys. Coukd go either way and the coaches knkw how ready or not Gavin ans Baye will be
 
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The problem with Paul coming back is I think we know we don’t want him dominating the point and the alternative is putting him on the wing - but there’s gotta be hundreds of better wing options in college basketball.

Looking at how you upgrade the play of our team by improving the most minutes played, Paul is sort of the best option to replace there.
 
Derek should have a higher share in this scenario. Good chance Dean is in the portal within a week or so.
Shack made this is a minority thread.

I am putting myself in the minority and saying Paul will be the player that gets the most minutes as point guard (although admittedly the position is gray at time as both can be point guard simultaneously).

I am going under the thesis
A. He was hurt
B. He will be better next year keeping him to 25 minutes
 
Bac …

I hear you …and I was frustrated with his tailspin at the end of the year …but keep in mind he stsrted to be needed to do different things in mag absence

He is a 15 minute guy that has can have a productive role for us …
If all the listed guys come back and are ready for play there is no spot for a guy who is a liability on D.

Hyatt has value when he hits perimeter shots and gets OREBs. The minute he can’t provide this he has no use.
 
Paul needs to come back and be a starter. To me, the only reason that Derek played point was to get him on the court and he couldn't play a forward spot, so Paul did. It really doesn't matter if Paul is the PG or not since he'll still be a leader and call the shots on court. If Paul doesn't come back, then we'd be in a developmental stage with no Caleb or Paul and a lot of young, untested guys.
 
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Bac …

I hear you …and I was frustrated with his tailspin at the end of the year …but keep in mind he stsrted to be needed to do different things in mag absence

He is a 15 minute guy that has can have a productive role for us …
but at a certain point it was apparent that it wasnt working. He had every opportunity. He got benched in favor of Oskar..says it all. Oskar played more minutes than Hyatt in 3 of the last 7 and all 3 of them RU looked their best.

it wasnt just a tailspin. In the two best games that RU played since the Mag injury, Hyatt played just 6 and 9 minutes...RU looked like the team of old with elite D

Here are his last 7 games..overall was 10-37 fg, 6-24 for 3, 4.2 ppg'

Hofstra 2-5 fg 5 points, 17 minutes
Purdue 0-2 fg, 0 points 6 minutes!
Michigan 1-4 fg, 5 points, 9 minutes!
NWestern 2-7 fg, 6 points, 21 minutes
Minnesota 4-8 fg, 10 points, 32 minutes
Penn State 1-7 fg, 3 points, 17 minutes...benched the rest of the 2nd half after walking back on defense
Michigan 0-5 fg, 0 points, 28 minutes


this wasnt a player that didnt have experience. He has major experience. Mag and Hyatt started out about even earlier on, Hyatt obviously more polished offensively. Mag improved on both ends greatly. Hyatt regressed and never accepted his role as a starter was not to shoot but to committ to defense

He had a couple of outlier games like Nebraska where he scored 24 but RU may have played their worst defense of the season.

To me it shows by seasons end Pike was exasperated with Hyatt. I know Hyatt has been lost in the shuffle of the snub and talk of others leaving but it needs to be addressed here.

Could he give 15 minutes..sure but I think that kind of players and minutes should be replacable. Gavin is coming and Mag will be back ( and if he isnt than Hyatt is certainly not the answer as a plan b). Simpson will play alot more. Paul will either come back or be replaced.
 
See my addtional posts…can go either way
I agree. If Reiber comes back I am taking the OvER on preseason expectations. It is crystal clear what Pike wants and he has clear competition for 15 backup minutes. I think it is in Deans control to be a part of the rotation.

I love the Wolf plays, but there are things Dean can do that Wolf can’t.
 
Milo,

I think in terms of 15 units. 160/15 is close to 11.

Cam 2
Paul 1.5
Mag 2
Gavin 2
Derek 1.5
Baye 1
Davis 1

For the other 40
Cliff-wolf/Reiber

This is why I agree with Shack with Sjanowski addendum.
You want to play Cam and Gavin 22 mins/game?
Paul 16? No way he’s happy
I don’t see that at all
 
Addressing the real meaning of the thread…..

Yes we had the pieces to be in the current Elite 8 before Mag went down. What we were missing was Mag and 1-2 extra guys that can fill minutes and play D.

I don’t think we need to bring in portal guys. (Provided guys don’t leave). Don’t want to bash players who are gone but some of the numbers with guys in and out of the lineup might have confirmed a bit what my eyeballs saw and may be against conventional thoughts of talking heads.
 
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Guys

I’ve watched enough ncaa games this year to know that when we’re healthy , (including mag), we were right there to be very competitive in the ncaa tournament

So …I’m not sure why, other than the bitter snub on selection Sunday coming from the fall off when we slumped post Mag, we don’t want to come back a year wiser , more developed and make a run

We were 9-5 (and shoukd have been 10-4) with our full roster this year , and only two of those wins were OOC cupcakes in late December .

Certainly , Caleb will be missed on the defensive end and toughness ….the reality was miller and Palmquist didn’t get off the bench untik mag got hurt

So, from our core 7 (Paul, cam, Caleb, Mawot, cliff , Derek and Aundre)…6 return

And we add
Gavin Griftths
Baye Ndongo
JaMichael Davis

And hopefully a more developed Antoine wolfolk

Let’s add a 5th year guard and go with it …and save the scholarships for the class of 2024

This has the makings of a very very good team for 2023-2024…picking up from where we left off from the Madison square garden win before injuries reallt got us….that’s much deeper and potentially doesn’t need to thread the needle with such a small holeto be a potential sweet 16 team

Sure …it requires cliff coming back, Paul getting healthy and coming back ready to finish this out right , it requires Hyatt coming back , and Mawot gettinf and staying healthy …

Sone ifs…but I think we are better off staying the course …we were close until the lack of depth really got exposed ..and I think we have fixed that for next year

Let’s stay the course ….
We need an infusion of talent period.
 
Guys

I’ve watched enough ncaa games this year to know that when we’re healthy , (including mag), we were right there to be very competitive in the ncaa tournament

So …I’m not sure why, other than the bitter snub on selection Sunday coming from the fall off when we slumped post Mag, we don’t want to come back a year wiser , more developed and make a run

We were 9-5 (and shoukd have been 10-4) with our full roster this year , and only two of those wins were OOC cupcakes in late December .

Certainly , Caleb will be missed on the defensive end and toughness ….the reality was miller and Palmquist didn’t get off the bench untik mag got hurt

So, from our core 7 (Paul, cam, Caleb, Mawot, cliff , Derek and Aundre)…6 return

And we add
Gavin Griftths
Baye Ndongo
JaMichael Davis

And hopefully a more developed Antoine wolfolk

Let’s add a 5th year guard and go with it …and save the scholarships for the class of 2024

This has the makings of a very very good team for 2023-2024…picking up from where we left off from the Madison square garden win before injuries reallt got us….that’s much deeper and potentially doesn’t need to thread the needle with such a small holeto be a potential sweet 16 team

Sure …it requires cliff coming back, Paul getting healthy and coming back ready to finish this out right , it requires Hyatt coming back , and Mawot gettinf and staying healthy …

Sone ifs…but I think we are better off staying the course …we were close until the lack of depth really got exposed ..and I think we have fixed that for next year

Let’s stay the course ….
Take a deep breath and repeat after me:

CHANGE IS GOOD

They need to transition to a faster style of play like Simpson and Mag are capable of. The increased team speed will also help on defense too. All of this is needed if you want to see them make any type of run in the NCAAs.
 
I think everyone does want everyone back.

However end of last year made clear Paul can’t stay at primary point. Everyone would take him as a back up but we don’t think he would do it. Hyatt has already proven he will play whatever role Pike wants.

So realistically for our team to improve we will hopefully return:

Cliff
Hyatt

And then realistically Paul won’t likely comeback in a reduced role but if he does great.

This is essentially running it back with same core and a lot of experience.
I want Paul and cliff back but not Hyatt.
 
Maybe I don’t pay attention to Hyatt’s defense enough, but I didn’t think it was THAT egregious. Paul’s defense is pretty egregious tbh. And if y’all want to make the speculative injury argument for Paul, what about Hyatt? They both fell off at the end of the season, but the first half of the season when they were fresh, Hyatt was one of our best scorers.
 
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Take a deep breath and repeat after me:

CHANGE IS GOOD

They need to transition to a faster style of play like Simpson and Mag are capable of. The increased team speed will also help on defense too. All of this is needed if you want to see them make any type of run in the NCAAs.

What have you seen from Mag that says he will be able to play faster ?!?!?

Change is GOOD….but not for the sake of change

Adding three new pcs Next year and a fourth hopefully in a 5th year guard is a good amount of adjustment while keeping a core together that was quite successful when healthy

And I’ll argue that the teams who can lock teams down are the ones making the run in March

See San Diego state
See Texas
See Florida Atlantic

Winning 70-65 is the NCAA path for our success , unless you are an elite , and I mean elite , offensive team
 
Paul needs to come back and be a starter. To me, the only reason that Derek played point was to get him on the court and he couldn't play a forward spot, so Paul did. It really doesn't matter if Paul is the PG or not since he'll still be a leader and call the shots on court. If Paul doesn't come back, then we'd be in a developmental stage with no Caleb or Paul and a lot of young, untested guys.
Totally disagree.Derek is our future and the team functions better with him at the point.Derek can break down a defense and importantly score the ball.He has always been a point guard beginning in grade school.Paul has to be willing to take a back seat or ride off into the sunset
 
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