I have NEVER seen our fan base so ready to abandon our program

[mildone]

Firing Ash could not possibly set recruiting back any worse than it has been this year.

That's what everybody said about firing Flood. It can always get worse.

Too many people on this board see firing Ash as the main event. I sure hope Hobbs and the admin take the position that firing Ash is a side-effect of finding someone who has really good odds of doing better.

Doesn't take much imagination to see how firing Ash and then hiring the wrong replacement could result in even worse recruiting. And at this time, I think it would be far, far easier to hire the wrong replacement than to find the right person for the job.

If we go another 3 seasons w/2-3 wins, recruiting could easily get worse and in the Big Ten right now, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that almost anybody we hire is going to have an uphill battle to get past 2-3 wins in 3 seasons.

And if they DO get there, it will be in part due to the current staff's recruiting efforts. Because in the third season, most of the new coach's recruits will still be underclassmen.

 

[Knight Shift]

As a UM fan who knows what its like to suck and be humiliated for multiple years like we were from '07-'14, I actually sympathize with Rutgers. I know what its like to love a team & program but have them let you down constantly. After the ND game in 2014 I was about to call it quits and sell my tickets. Keep in mind, Michigan was TERRIBLE with probably 5x the level of talent that RU has currently. 2015 was a turn around but still disappointing after the msu last second loss and getting drubbed by OSU. The biggest thing that has helped UM was hiring competent assistant coaches, namely Brown and now Warinner for our OL, and a new s&c coach.

I think the best option if RU really wants quick results is to go out and get the best coordinators possible even if that means coughing up some more $, but keeping Ash as head coach because its probably best for there to be some continuity. Firing him would definitely set recruiting back.

If having these records is sucking and being humiliated, sign me up:
2007: 9-5/6-2
2008: 3-9/2-6
2009: 5-7/1-7
2010: 7-6/3-5
2011: 11-2/6-2
2012: 8-5/6-2
2013: 7-6/3-5
2014:5-7/3-5

 

[Knight Shift]

That's what everybody said about firing Flood. It can always get worse.

Too many people on this board see firing Ash as the main event. I sure hope Hobbs and the admin take the position that firing Ash is a side-effect of finding someone who has really good odds of doing better.

Doesn't take much imagination to see how firing Ash and then hiring the wrong replacement could result in even worse recruiting. And at this time, I think it would be far, far easier to hire the wrong replacement than to find the right person for the job.

If we go another 3 seasons w/2-3 wins, recruiting could easily get worse and in the Big Ten right now, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that almost anybody we hire is going to have an uphill battle to get past 2-3 wins in 3 seasons.

And if they DO get there, it will be in part due to the current staff's recruiting efforts. Because in the third season, most of the new coach's recruits will still be underclassmen.

Disagree. Don't think RU can do any worse than Ash, including re-hiring Flood.
Best to cut our losses now and move on.
If they don't, I will still go to the games. Because I love horrors and comedies.

 

[L8115]

If having these records is sucking and being humiliated, sign me up:
2007: 9-5/6-2
2008: 3-9/2-6
2009: 5-7/1-7
2010: 7-6/3-5
2011: 11-2/6-2
2012: 8-5/6-2
2013: 7-6/3-5
2014:5-7/3-5

When you have vicious rivalries with osu and msu it was pure hell. The vitriol is 10 fold what it would be for most teams with those records. The 'Game of the Century' with #1 osu and #2 Michigan in 2006, and then app state 10 months later ripped the heart out of UM and it took 8 years to recover.

 

[mildone]

Disagree. Don't think RU can do any worse than Ash, including re-hiring Flood.
Best to cut our losses now and move on.
If they don't, I will still go to the games. Because I love horrors and comedies.

If a new coach can't get us past 2-4 wins per season in 3 seasons, then they will be no better than Ash, who is not good. This fan base is totally out of patience.

We have no idea who Hobbs will hire to replace Ash, but Hobbs hired Ash, so there's that track record to consider. I don't think hiring Ash was stupid, either. Or rather, it looks like a bad decision in hindsight. But at the time, Ash looked like a viable up-and-comer.

If we hire another viable up-and-comer, I think it will take an enormous dose of good luck, something that's been in short supply in the RU FB program lately, to have much success in just 3 seasons.

I'm not arguing to keep Ash. I'm arguing that people's expectations are totally out of whack if they think just firing a coach is going to fix the problem. We need the RU admin to pony up for a very, very good coach or the odds are that we're going to be in exactly this same position in 3 seasons, talking about firing the new guy.

 

[L8115]

Firing Ash could not possibly set recruiting back any worse than it has been this year.

I might be wrong, but it just seems that coaching carousels don't work for a lot of schools.

 

[L8115]

I might be wrong, but it just seems that coaching carousels don't work for a lot of schools.

Maybe you can lure Jim Mcelwain. Im sure he'd rather be a a head coach then wr coach under Harbaugh. He would recruit the south much better than Ash.

 

[Knight Shift]

When you have vicious rivalries with osu and msu it was pure hell. The vitriol is 10 fold what it would be for most teams with those records. The 'Game of the Century' with #1 osu and #2 Michigan in 2006, and then app state 10 months later ripped the heart out of UM and it took 8 years to recover.

I get it, but you guys are living in a much higher rent zip code than Rutgers when it comes to expectations for football. We would be elated to get to 6 or 7 wins and a crappy bowl game at this point. You guys should bring back Brady Hoke and help your poor brothers in NJ out a bit.

 

[Knight Shift]

If a new coach can't get us past 2-4 wins per season in 3 seasons, then they will be no better than Ash, who is not good. This fan base is totally out of patience.

We have no idea who Hobbs will hire to replace Ash, but Hobbs hired Ash, so there's that track record to consider. I don't think hiring Ash was stupid, either. Or rather, it looks like a bad decision in hindsight. But at the time, Ash looked like a viable up-and-comer.

If we hire another viable up-and-comer, I think it will take an enormous dose of good luck, something that's been in short supply in the RU FB program lately, to have much success in just 3 seasons.

I'm not arguing to keep Ash. I'm arguing that people's expectations are totally out of whack if they think just firing a coach is going to fix the problem. We need the RU admin to pony up for a very, very good coach or the odds are that we're going to be in exactly this same position in 3 seasons, talking about firing the new guy.

I don't think I ever said that just firing the coach is going to fix the problem. You seem to be saying that doing nothing may be better than doing something else, just because the possibility exists that a new coach MIGHT make it worse. My point is that we have seen enough of Chris Ash from the perspective of game day coaching abilities (poor), recruiting (poor) and communicating his message/vision (poor). I'm not an angry, unhinged fan looking for instant gratification. My concern is that if we continue on the current trajectory (especially recruiting), the football program will sink further into a hole.

And the big caveat to all of this for me is we should not fire Ash with a budget of $2-2.5 million for a new coach. That ain't going to cut it, and I will agree with you that we should just hold the line with Ash. The funds need to be in place to spend $3-4 million/year for a head coach. And yes, that will not provide any guarantees, but Rutgers really needs to step up this time and get a known commodity (like Julie apparently wanted to back in 2013), and not an up and comer.

 

[Knight Shift]

I might be wrong, but it just seems that coaching carousels don't work for a lot of schools.

Is Harbaugh telling you to type these tips?

You coming to the game?

On the whole, Michigan fans were decent guests in 2014, unlike Penn State and Wisconsin fans. Northwestern fans were fewer, but they seemed OK too.

 

[mildone]

I don't think I ever said that just firing the coach is going to fix the problem. You seem to be saying that doing nothing may be better than doing something else, just because the possibility exists that a new coach MIGHT make it worse. My point is that we have seen enough of Chris Ash from the perspective of game day coaching abilities (poor), recruiting (poor) and communicating his message/vision (poor). I'm not an angry, unhinged fan looking for instant gratification. My concern is that if we continue on the current trajectory (especially recruiting), the football program will sink further into a hole.

And the big caveat to all of this for me is we should not fire Ash with a budget of $2-2.5 million for a new coach. That ain't going to cut it, and I will agree with you that we should just hold the line with Ash. The funds need to be in place to spend $3-4 million/year for a head coach. And yes, that will not provide any guarantees, but Rutgers really needs to step up this time and get a known commodity (like Julie apparently wanted to back in 2013), and not an up and comer.

I'm not saying to do nothing. I'm saying that claims that we couldn't do worse than Ash are wishful thinking. It depends entirely on who we hire next.

I think we should spend $4-5 million on the next coach, with a huge assistant budget as well. Because we cannot succeed by continuing to shuffle coaches out every 3 years. So we better make this next hire count.

 

[mildone]

Is Harbaugh telling you to type these tips?

You coming to the game?

On the whole, Michigan fans were decent guests in 2014, unlike Penn State and Wisconsin fans. Northwestern fans were fewer, but they seemed OK too.

I had a great time with Penn State fans at the tailgates over the past four years. Ya gotta remember to have hookers and blow and then everybody gets along.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Mildone - As an avid supporter of Chris Ash until mid-September I call complete bullshit on not been able to find a replacement who can do a better job both recruiting, and coaching, as well as getting us back to bowl games.

 

[Knight Shift]

I had a great time with Penn State fans at the tailgates over the past four years. Ya gotta remember to have hookers and blow and then everybody gets along.

I need to stop by your tailgate this weekend. I know what RU#'s looks like, and I casually tried to find you guys the last game without success. I will leave your hookers and blow alone.

 

[mildone]

Mildone - As an avid supporter of Chris Ash until mid-September I call complete bullshit on not been able to find a replacement who can do a better job both recruiting, and coaching, as well as getting us back to bowl games.

You're calling bullshit on something I didn't say. Go read it again.

I never once said anything about not being able to find a replacement. I said that it's very possible that we hire somebody and they fail. Just like Flood. Just like Ash.

Maybe the third time will be the charm. Maybe it won't. But people who state that we can't possibly do any worse are guilty of wishful thinking. Who would've thought we could do worse than Flood? It's ALWAYS possible, one way or another.

 

[mildone]

I need to stop by your tailgate this weekend. I know what RU#'s looks like, and I casually tried to find you guys the last game without success. I will leave your hookers and blow alone.

The hookers might not leave you alone, though. :)

 

[Knight Shift]

The hookers might not leave you alone, though. :)

The wife might object. What's your tailgate vehicle and/or do you guys fly a flag or have a certain color tent?

 

[mildone]

The wife might object. What's your tailgate vehicle and/or do you guys fly a flag or have a certain color tent?

We need to pick up a flag. Used to have my beat up old black Suburban as a highly visible landmark. But that got sold to a junkyard a couple weeks ago.

Let's chat Friday and we'll figure something out. I might pick up a flag on Amazon. Maybe one with hookers and blow on it, just to troll everybody who is easily offended in the Yellow lot.

 

[Knight Shift]

We need to pick up a flag. Used to have my beat up old black Suburban as a highly visible landmark. But that got sold to a junkyard a couple weeks ago.

Let's chat Friday and we'll figure something out. I might pick up a flag on Amazon. Maybe one with hookers and blow on it, just to troll everybody who is easily offended in the Yellow lot.

Probably not what you meant:

As far as a blow flag, there was that one that one of RU's tailgaters had at the PSU game that Julie apologized for.

 

[mildone]

Probably not what you meant:

As far as a blow flag, there was that one that one of RU's tailgaters had at the PSU game that Julie apologized for.

Ah yes, I remember. I even remember pointing out in the resulting outrage thread that I laugh at everything, and even more so at the stuff in life that makes us want to cry.

Comedy is a funny thing. :)

 

[AreYouNUTS]

You're calling bullshit on something I didn't say. Go read it again.

I never once said anything about not being able to find a replacement. I said that it's very possible that we hire somebody and they fail. Just like Flood. Just like Ash.

Maybe the third time will be the charm. Maybe it won't. But people who state that we can't possibly do any worse are guilty of wishful thinking. Who would've thought we could do worse than Flood? It's ALWAYS possible, one way or another.

I read what you said, and I answered accordingly, lol??!! I feel that we absolutely can find a replacement who can accomplish those things. You seem to be making the assumption that we will hire the wrong guy again.

 

[Knight Shift]

I read what you said, and I answered accordingly, lol??!! I feel that we absolutely can find a replacement who can accomplish those things. You seem to be making the assumption that we will hire the wrong guy again.

That's a somewhat fair assumption consider our track record.
But I tend to think RU will finally get it right next time.

 

[mildone]

I read what you said, and I answered accordingly, lol??!! I feel that we absolutely can find a replacement who can accomplish those things. You seem to be making the assumption that we will hire the wrong guy again.

Again, I never once said we can't find someone. Didn't even imply it. Of course we can find someone who could accomplish those things.

My point is that it's not any more of a foregone conclusion that we will find someone who will do those things than it was when we hired Flood or Ash.

People think a new coach is just going to wave his arms and everything's gonna turn around. Even Schiano was never able to win the Big East. In 11 years of trying. It's gonna be very, very hard.

The odds are stacked heavily against us. The only thing, IMO, the school can do is try to improve the odds by spending on a significantly more experienced head coach with name recognition. To help with recruiting. Because RU has a lot of negative perception to overcome these days.

 

[snowboarder]

Over 40 years as a fan, season ticket holder in basketball and football for 35.
I have given up and will not renew next year unless we fire Ash and make a commitment to winning. We had 11 tickets at one time including 1 in the Audi We are now down to 6 season tickets. I have seen the incompetence of the Athletic Dept up close and personal. My son was a 4 year starter in another sport at RU.
We have not become this pathetic by accident.
This is a leadership issue, our ineptitude as an athletic department has been years in the making.
We caught lightning in a bottle with Greg and Bob. Two guys that were bigger then the incompetence that surrounded them.
I fear that it will never happen again.

 

[snowboarder]

I read what you said, and I answered accordingly, lol??!! I feel that we absolutely can find a replacement who can accomplish those things. You seem to be making the assumption that we will hire the wrong guy again.

Based on our track history, why would you assume otherwise?

 

[Knight Shift]

Over 40 years as a fan, season ticket holder in basketball and football for 35.
I have given up and will not renew next year unless we fire Ash and make a commitment to winning. We had 11 tickets at one time including 1 in the Audi We are now down to 6 season tickets. I have seen the incompetence of the Athletic Dept up close and personal. My son was a 4 year starter in another sport at RU.
We have not become this pathetic by accident.
This is a leadership issue, our ineptitude as an athletic department has been years in the making.
We caught lightning in a bottle with Greg and Bob. Two guys that were bigger then the incompetence that surrounded them.
I fear that it will never happen again.

You think the current Athletics administration is inept?