I would still be in floods corner if I saw improvement

[BiggyRU]

If turay was developing....if young receivers were flashing.....if a young lineman was flashing....if our dlinman were showing fire here and there....if our qb wowed us once in a while.....if our game plan confused our openenent at times.....if we had any back up linebackers pushing the starters.....
I need something to hang my hat.on if u want my support.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I feel the exact same way. I was just arguing before the Michigan game with my buddy who cannot stand Flood. I said well, I expected OSU to go that way, so what was really important was to show improvement against Wisconsin, and play well against Michigan and Nebraska. Need to win one and keep the other 2 close. I said in hindsight, after the season was over, that would look like real improvement if we could pull that off.

Unfortunately, after Saturday, I see no chance of that, and my support is gone. There is nothing to feel positive about, because there is nothing I can look to right now and say "well, we are doing ____ well."

 

[RUNYGDVLSFAN]

I want to remain optimistic... but I just can't. The players look dejected and frustrated with the play calling. Change is needed regardless what happens in Michigan or Nebraska games.

 

[BiggyRU]

The MSU game is something we need to see more often..
I think the fan base can deal with losing if we see a fiery team that makes plays and battles..

 

[WhiteBus]

The fact that you will still defend a slimy HC who will break any rule and call it irrelevant is amazing. You folks should root for North Carolina

 

[BiggyRU]

get a life white bus..
His integrity is not the issue..Ill match him up with any head coach in the nation...I can promise you coaches all over the nation go to bat for their players..

the issue is coaching/recruiting/ on field results..

 

[WhiteBus]

get a life white bus..
His integrity is not the issue..Ill match him up with any head coach in the nation...I can promise you coaches all over the nation go to bat for their players..

the issue is coaching/recruiting/ on field results..

What percentage of HC have been suspended this year and are under investigation. You Floodies will ignore everything.
You are right about one thing. His integrity is not an issue....he no longer has any.

 

[BiggyRU]

give me a break ..
If flood beat OSU and Wisky back to back you would not give a flying sh*t that Flood tried to help Barnwell earn extra credit in a class......

 

[devoted2ru]

I think Flood's given it his best shot, (though I do think he's shown a stubborn streak that absolutely defies description and has made decisions that are amazingly foolish), but the truth of the matter is that some people are cut out to be the top guy in an organization and some simply aren't, and unfortunately, Flood falls into the latter category.

I used to support Flood, used to defend him vehemently to friends who honestly felt KF didn't he have the acumen to properly operate a light switch and thought he had all the charisma of a wet sock, (to the point of actually getting into some pretty "animated" arguments with them over him), but those days are completely past. The Flood experiment hasn't worked, and if this program is going to have a chance to start an upward trend again, a proper search has to be conducted and the best possible guy we can find, (and yes...afford), has got to be put at the helm.

 

[WhiteBus]

give me a break ..
If flood beat OSU and Wisky back to back you would not give a flying sh*t that Flood tried to help Barnwell earn extra credit in a class......

That's how stupid and accepting you are...not me. There is a lot more to that story. And when it comes out you and all the Floodies will look like much bigger asses than you are right now.

 

[rutgers4life11]

Yeah, this was WAY MORE than a coach doing the 'good thing' by trying to help a student get extra credit. He was absolutely told "DO NOT DO THIS". Then, he did it. Repeatedly... in the most comically idiotic manner possible. Seriously, you have to read the transcripts. It was like Steve Carrell in Get Smart with his covert tactics. Case in point:

HOW COULD ANYONE DEFEND THIS GUY?

Seriously, this article about the 9 dumbest things Kyle Flood did during the scandal should be pinned (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday...est-thing-in-the-rutgers-report-on-kyle-flood)

 

[rufeelinit]

It is not defensable and just added fuel to fire that is burning the program down.

 

[RU-Nation]

I'm living in China so needless to say I'm a bit limited in the amount of Rutgers football I can actually see. But I try and read as much as I can and the lack of hype regarding the improvement of players is something that I pick up week after week. I mean from the Flood supporters and anti-Flood crowd both, no one mentions a new name as stepping up their game. I mean Caroo is head and shoulders above anyone else on the team, but besides seeing some mentions of Gause and Longa having some good games along with Martin and Hicks having their moments, that's it. Is anyone else having a good year? Is anyone actually improved?

As I said, I'm not exposed to as nearly as much Rutgers football as you all are so I'm not going to give an appraisal of Laviano's ability. However, just looking at the numbers, the kid is not producing and is getting worse. The fact I recall reading Flood himself saying Laviano and Rettig were neck in neck in the competition makes the fact that Rettig is still riding the pine is nothing short of mind boggling. I just read the 49ers are sitting Kaepernick for Blaine friggin Gabbert. I mean the guy led the 49ers to the Super Bowl and he's being sat for not producing and to get his head back on straight. Why oh why is Flood not trying this? I mean he has no desire to see if maybe just maybe the other guy might have something?

 

[devoted2ru]

Yeah, this was WAY MORE than a coach doing the 'good thing' by trying to help a student get extra credit. He was absolutely told "DO NOT DO THIS". Then, he did it. Repeatedly... in the most comically idiotic manner possible. Seriously, you have to read the transcripts. It was like Steve Carrell in Get Smart with his covert tactics. Case in point:

HOW COULD ANYONE DEFEND THIS GUY?

Seriously, this article about the 9 dumbest things Kyle Flood did during the scandal should be pinned (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday...est-thing-in-the-rutgers-report-on-kyle-flood)

The transcript of the conversation between KF and the advisor you posted is actually what was one of the true turning points in my feelings about Flood and was also what I was referring to in my above post, (in an admittedly kind of PC way), about him making amazingly foolish decisions. -And you're right, there really is no defending that.

 

[RUfan121]

Wow. You people are still out there.[roll]

 

[MozRU]

I question the intelligence of the persons who believe Flood is the guy.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Well, there are also still people who belive that the Earth is flat. This would be the CFB version of that.

 

[krup]

The transcript of the conversation between KF and the advisor you posted is actually what was one of the true turning points in my feelings about Flood and was also what I was referring to in my above post, (in an admittedly kind of PC way), about him making amazingly foolish decisions. -And you're right, there really is no defending that.

One of my pet peeves is that most people can see that certain media outlets will present a warped view of Rutgers sports, yet I see people quoting here those same outlets on news, politics, etc. as if they totally believe on "that stuff" the media wouldn't have a bias.

It's the same thing with Flood. I cannot see how someone who reads the emails showing his decision making on the Barnwell-professor thing can blindly believe he is capable of making good decisions regarding the football program.

 

[zappaa]

I question the intelligence of the persons who believe Flood is the guy.

There is not one person on this board who believes KF is "the guy"
There are people who say I support him and lets see if he's the guy by giving him 2016, but that's as far as it possibly could go.

Why their minds aren't made up to the contrary based on how he's dealt with adversity, I have no idea.
To actually truly believe he is the man would mean they were insane.

 

[RUNYGDVLSFAN]

The MSU game is something we need to see more often..
I think the fan base can deal with losing if we see a fiery team that makes plays and battles..

agreed...something can be built upon with moral victories

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I question the intelligence of the persons who believe Flood is the guy.

I don't think anyone believes Flood is the guy. And I don't really think there are any Flood supporters out there. What I think you see here, is some people, like myself, want Flood to prove us all wrong and see the team win some games they shouldn't and do well. It's nothing more than that. We want the team to win.

I think there is also a streak of "realism" on this board, that gets perceived as "Flood loving." I have often argued that as bad as things are, it may make sense to not make a move just yet. You cannot simply fire the coach with no plan and hope for the best. We don't have school money to bail us out of that situation. We are not Michigan, who can get turned down by the 1st 5 guys they offer and still make a decent hire. So before you fire Flood, the money has to be lined up, and the right candidate has to be available. This is going to be a tough year to make a move, and we have no idea whether Julie has done her job to get the donor money lined up (or enough of it to entice the right candidate).

If we make the wrong hire, that is not one more year of "big dummy Flood." That is 5 years... FIVE YEARS ... of sucking. We are not buying out two football coach contracts before Big Ten money kicks in. So we are stuck with whoever we get until 2021. So all of you blind with rage fools who think Julie is incompetent and want Flood fired better be careful what you wish for. Because if she does something stupid like hire Al Golden, PJ Fleck or Mario Cristobol... we are stuck with that shit until 2021. Let that sink in for a minute. You think this is damaging the fanbase? Wait until we follow it up with a 5 year trainwreck. And before you say anything is better than what we have now, consider that it may be worth another year of pain if it means making the right long term hire.

 

[RU2055]

It is not defensable and just added fuel to fire that is burning the program down.

And this is what was exposed. What about the stuff that folks never heard about? Anybody who thinks this is the first time or the only time is simply fooling themselves. How about trying to hire the guy that paid for his extension? Doesn't that reek of conflict of interests and integrity issues? If these events doesn't tell you what Flood is really all about, then nothing will.

I don't think anyone believes Flood is the guy. And I don't really think there are any Flood supporters out there. What I think you see here, is some people, like myself, want Flood to prove us all wrong and see the team win some games they shouldn't and do well. It's nothing more than that. We want the team to win.

I think there is also a streak of "realism" on this board, that gets perceived as "Flood loving." I have often argued that as bad as things are, it may make sense to not make a move just yet. You cannot simply fire the coach with no plan and hope for the best. We don't have school money to bail us out of that situation. We are not Michigan, who can get turned down by the 1st 5 guys they offer and still make a decent hire. So before you fire Flood, the money has to be lined up, and the right candidate has to be available. This is going to be a tough year to make a move, and we have no idea whether Julie has done her job to get the donor money lined up (or enough of it to entice the right candidate).

If we make the wrong hire, that is not one more year of "big dummy Flood." That is 5 years... FIVE YEARS ... of sucking. We are not buying out two football coach contracts before Big Ten money kicks in. So we are stuck with whoever we get until 2021. So all of you blind with rage fools who think Julie is incompetent and want Flood fired better be careful what you wish for. Because if she does something stupid like hire Al Golden, PJ Fleck or Mario Cristobol... we are stuck with that shit until 2021. Let that sink in for a minute. You think this is damaging the fanbase? Wait until we follow it up with a 5 year trainwreck. And before you say anything is better than what we have now, consider that it may be worth another year of pain if it means making the right long term hire.

In a nutshell, you would rather dance with the incompetent devil you know rather than the hypothetical incompetent devil you don't know.

Sorry, but if you ask me to choose between the proven incompetence versus the unknown, I choose the unknown.

 

[zappaa]

I don't think anyone believes Flood is the guy. And I don't really think there are any Flood supporters out there. What I think you see here, is some people, like myself, want Flood to prove us all wrong and see the team win some games they shouldn't and do well. It's nothing more than that. We want the team to win.

I think there is also a streak of "realism" on this board, that gets perceived as "Flood loving." I have often argued that as bad as things are, it may make sense to not make a move just yet. You cannot simply fire the coach with no plan and hope for the best. We don't have school money to bail us out of that situation. We are not Michigan, who can get turned down by the 1st 5 guys they offer and still make a decent hire. So before you fire Flood, the money has to be lined up, and the right candidate has to be available. This is going to be a tough year to make a move, and we have no idea whether Julie has done her job to get the donor money lined up (or enough of it to entice the right candidate).

If we make the wrong hire, that is not one more year of "big dummy Flood." That is 5 years... FIVE YEARS ... of sucking. We are not buying out two football coach contracts before Big Ten money kicks in. So we are stuck with whoever we get until 2021. So all of you blind with rage fools who think Julie is incompetent and want Flood fired better be careful what you wish for. Because if she does something stupid like hire Al Golden, PJ Fleck or Mario Cristobol... we are stuck with that shit until 2021. Let that sink in for a minute. You think this is damaging the fanbase? Wait until we follow it up with a 5 year trainwreck. And before you say anything is better than what we have now, consider that it may be worth another year of pain if it means making the right long term hire.

Cabbage-
Are you telling me he hasn't already proven to you he will never win?
Truthfully, you should not look any further than special teams to help you with your decision.

Just curious, is there any financial reason it would benefit us to keep Flood another year?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

In a nutshell, you would rather dance with the incompetent devil you know rather than the hypothetical incompetent devil you don't know.

Sorry, but if you ask me to choose between the proven incompetence versus the unknown, I choose the unknown.

You completely ignored my point. Better to stick with the known evil for 1 year, if it allows you to avoid or minimize the risk of a 5 year mistake.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I don't think anyone believes Flood is the guy. And I don't really think there are any Flood supporters out there. What I think you see here, is some people, like myself, want Flood to prove us all wrong and see the team win some games they shouldn't and do well. It's nothing more than that. We want the team to win.

I think there is also a streak of "realism" on this board, that gets perceived as "Flood loving." I have often argued that as bad as things are, it may make sense to not make a move just yet. You cannot simply fire the coach with no plan and hope for the best. We don't have school money to bail us out of that situation. We are not Michigan, who can get turned down by the 1st 5 guys they offer and still make a decent hire. So before you fire Flood, the money has to be lined up, and the right candidate has to be available. This is going to be a tough year to make a move, and we have no idea whether Julie has done her job to get the donor money lined up (or enough of it to entice the right candidate).

If we make the wrong hire, that is not one more year of "big dummy Flood." That is 5 years... FIVE YEARS ... of sucking. We are not buying out two football coach contracts before Big Ten money kicks in. So we are stuck with whoever we get until 2021. So all of you blind with rage fools who think Julie is incompetent and want Flood fired better be careful what you wish for. Because if she does something stupid like hire Al Golden, PJ Fleck or Mario Cristobol... we are stuck with that shit until 2021. Let that sink in for a minute. You think this is damaging the fanbase? Wait until we follow it up with a 5 year trainwreck. And before you say anything is better than what we have now, consider that it may be worth another year of pain if it means making the right long term hire.

What you say has a lot of merit but even if you wait til next year and change the coach, it still going to be 3-5 years and until 2020-2022 if it's the wrong hire.

Picking the wrong, or right coach for that matter, is anywhere from a 3-5 yr commitment whether it happens now or next year. The only thing you can say is that will there be less openings next year. But I've shown in other threads that dating back to 2001 most years had a double digit number of P5 openings usually about 11-13 with 17 being the high and 4 being the low a couple times. The last 2 years were on the low end with about 7 openings each year. So far this year we have 9 P5 openings and we'll probably end up with 14-15 at the end of the season. I think all "iffy" spots would have to make a move to go beyond that.

My position is if you've done your analysis and due diligence and you come to the conclusion you have to make a move you make it and don't wait on the perfect circumstances that my never come. Who knows how many openings there will be next year, maybe less, maybe more, maybe the same. We don't know. Last year could we have predicted so much in season movement that's happened this year.

It's always about identifying the right coach and that's the case whenever a move is made, be it now or a year from now. Of course identifying that right coach is easier said then done.

 

[RU2055]

You completely ignored my point. Better to stick with the known evil for 1 year, if it allows you to avoid or minimize the risk of a 5 year mistake.

How do you minimize the risk by delaying one more year? Do you think our financial position will improve in one year?

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Cabbage-
Are you telling me he hasn't already proven to you he will never win?
Truthfully, you should not look any further than special teams to help you with your decision.

Just curious, is there any financial reason it would benefit us to keep Flood another year?

No he has proven that to me at this point. I don't think we will ever be successful with him as the HC. Like I said, have hoped to be proven wrong.

No financial benefit to keeping Flood, but I just really would do whatever it takes to get the right coach in here. If you have to wait a year, I can deal. The next coaching hire is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to the success of this program in the Big Ten. We will have the next coach for 5 years, regardless of results. Think about that. They will either elevate the program, of kill it for good. That's a scary thing.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

What you say has a lot of merit but even if you wait til next year and change the coach, it still going to be 3-5 years and until 2020-2022 if it's the wrong hire.

Picking the wrong, or right coach for that matter, is anywhere from a 3-5 yr commitment whether it happens now or next year. The only thing you can say is that will there be less openings next year. But I've shown in other threads that dating back to 2001 most years had a double digit number of P5 openings usually about 11-13 with 17 being the high and 4 being the low a couple times. The last 2 years were on the low end with about 7 openings each year. So far this year we have 9 P5 openings and we'll probably end up with 14-15 at the end of the season. I think all "iffy" spots would have to make a move to go beyond that.

My position is if you've done your analysis and due diligence and you come to the conclusion you have to make a move you make and don't wait on the perfect circumstances that my never come. Who knows how many openings there will be next year, maybe less, maybe more, maybe the same. We don't know. Last year could we have predicted so much in season movement that's happened this year.

It's always about identifying the right coach and that's the case whenever a move is made now or a year from now. Of course identifying that right coach is easier said then done.

No doubt. Ideally, Julie does her job and gets enough money lined up to hire a strong candidate. And of course you don't guarantee anything will be better by waiting a year. Could be worse next year, you never know.

All I am saying, is that I would prefer the team did well enough that Julie wouldn't have her hand forced. We know she wants to fire him. So its just a scenario of whether she must fire him. If we finish at 3-9 or 4-8, she has no choice...he must be fired, and we will get whoever we get when the musical chairs end this offseason.

If we did moderately well this year, Julie would have the option to say "I like candidate X, and we can afford him and his staff, so lets jump this year," or she could say "Well, I reached out to candidates X and Y, who are my top choices, and they weren't interested...we finished 6-6, so maybe we can wait until next year before making a move."

 

[RU2055]

No he has proven that to me at this point. I don't think we will ever be successful with him as the HC. Like I said, have hoped to be proven wrong.

No financial benefit to keeping Flood, but I just really would do whatever it takes to get the right coach in here. If you have to wait a year, I can deal. The next coaching hire is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to the success of this program in the Big Ten. We will have the next coach for 5 years, regardless of results. Think about that. They will either elevate the program, of kill it for good. That's a scary thing.

rutgersguy1 is correct. The due diligence for a new coach will be no different this year as it would be for next year.

I understand what you are saying that this is a critical hire. I agree with that. However, let's not overstate it's impact. The attitude can't change from "let's just keep things afloat with Flood till the big money rolls in" to "we need to hire a home run guy or the program will sink into oblivion". The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[mildone]

I didn't think Flood was going to be the guy when he was hired. I was pleasantly surprised he did as well as he did at times, but still never thought he was going to be the guy we need looking forward. And I still don't think he's going to be the guy, looking forward.

It has nothing to do with the Barnwell academic incident, or the arrested players at the start of the season. It's just that, in order to become regularly competitive w/the elite teams of the Big Ten, RU will have to bring in high level coaching staff led by a guy that has a proven track record. Someone w/experience recruiting and winning at the highest level. Flood is just not that guy.

Having said all that, I'm not about to attack those people who like Flood or want to stand by him. We're all fans. So what if someone wants to support Flood? How's that a problem for me or any of you or for the football program? It's not like we fans can hire or fire the coach.

And please, don't be stupid enough to respond that it's stupid for a fan to support Flood or some other pseudo-intelligence-based argument. Because trying to justify beating up on someone for an effect-less opinion because the beaten-upon person is being stupid is about ten times more stupid than the supposed stupidity of the beaten one. What? It's true. There are statistics that back me up. Ten times.

 

[RUBlackout]

If I saw the intensity we bright during the MSU game every week then I would be fine even if we lost. I walked out of that game saying just thatZ. I wasn't upset that we lost because we showed effort and progress. Otherwise, the rest of the season has been dismal at best. This is what I have expected out of flood now watching his book of work over the years. We have been blown out by teams we should have at least been in the game against(not saying we would win). Just disappointing!

I hope someone of doing a "what if analysis" of the ROi if we keep flood moving forward and the effect it can have in ticket sales/donations. Is it truly worth keeping versus hiring someone else to inspire the fans again. We only sold out one game this year(OSU) and that was the #1 team in the nation. That will not happen every year when the luster wears off from the B1G entrance and the expectations by fans that we will get blown out. People would rather sell their tickets than sit through those games and that makes for a very unwelcoming experience for the fans and players in the stadium. (Dynamic pricing def plays a role in non selloits also)

 

[beaced]

give me a break ..
If flood beat OSU and Wisky back to back you would not give a flying sh*t that Flood tried to help Barnwell earn extra credit in a class......

I don't think that his integrity is the question. The fact that he was told NOT to contact the Prof and knowing that he shouldn't,still did so ,makes his stubborness the problem.

 

[rutgersguy1]

If we did moderately well this year, Julie would have the option to say "I like candidate X, and we can afford him and his staff, so lets jump this year," or she could say "Well, I reached out to candidates X and Y, who are my top choices, and they weren't interested...we finished 6-6, so maybe we can wait until next year before making a move."

I get this part if she's got a particular person in mind who might not be available now but could be in the future. That worries me about Golden. Some here are implying Golden is a real shot for us. I remember back in 2013 during that whole USF last game thing Mullen and Golden were the names thrown out as targets. We missed Mullen because we didn't have enough for staff according to reports and Golden was still entrenched in Miami. I liked Mullen but not Golden. Now obviously Golden is available and was a possible target back in 2013 and that worries me that he definitely could get it. It fits your scenario perfectly.

 

[Toddwills00]

Flood is just not a P5 head coach his record shows this. I also believe that if the staff was let go not 1 of our coaches would find a position on another P5 staff.

 

[RU2055]

Golden is a terrible coach but is a dam good recruiter. If he we brought him here, he could at least stock up the cupboard with four and five stars for Urban Meyer in 2020.

I kid, I kid .....

 

[RU2055]

Flood is just not a P5 head coach his record shows this. I also believe that if the staff was let go not 1 of our coaches would find a position on another P5 staff.

No, we have coaches on the staff that are good coaches and would definitely find P5 jobs.

 

[zappaa]

No he has proven that to me at this point. I don't think we will ever be successful with him as the HC. Like I said, have hoped to be proven wrong.

No financial benefit to keeping Flood, but I just really would do whatever it takes to get the right coach in here. If you have to wait a year, I can deal. The next coaching hire is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to the success of this program in the Big Ten. We will have the next coach for 5 years, regardless of results. Think about that. They will either elevate the program, of kill it for good. That's a scary thing.

Another disastrous year might make it more difficult to find the right head coach.

 

[lighty]

And this is what was exposed. What about the stuff that folks never heard about? Anybody who thinks this is the first time or the only time is simply fooling themselves. How about trying to hire the guy that paid for his extension? Doesn't that reek of conflict of interests and integrity issues? If these events doesn't tell you what Flood is really all about, then nothing will.

That's a really good point. Was Flood the person who pushed to get that person hired or Julie? If it was Flood, that seriously is another black mark on the myth about his integrity imo.

 

[TdogRU]

The economic value of keeping flood until we get a little more money is contradicted by the reality of potentially losing 5-6 thousand fair weather season ticket holders next year if he is still running the show.

The writing has been on the wall recruiting wise for about 3 years. I used to have premium but I couldn't stand knowing the ins and outs of the horrible job Flood has been doing. It's been much easier just going to the games and knowing only superficially how terrible a recruiter he actually is.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

I'm living in China so needless to say I'm a bit limited in the amount of Rutgers football I can actually see. But I try and read as much as I can and the lack of hype regarding the improvement of players is something that I pick up week after week. I mean from the Flood supporters and anti-Flood crowd both, no one mentions a new name as stepping up their game. I mean Caroo is head and shoulders above anyone else on the team, but besides seeing some mentions of Gause and Longa having some good games along with Martin and Hicks having their moments, that's it. Is anyone else having a good year? Is anyone actually improved?

As I said, I'm not exposed to as nearly as much Rutgers football as you all are so I'm not going to give an appraisal of Laviano's ability. However, just looking at the numbers, the kid is not producing and is getting worse. The fact I recall reading Flood himself saying Laviano and Rettig were neck in neck in the competition makes the fact that Rettig is still riding the pine is nothing short of mind boggling. I just read the 49ers are sitting Kaepernick for Blaine friggin Gabbert. I mean the guy led the 49ers to the Super Bowl and he's being sat for not producing and to get his head back on straight. Why oh why is Flood not trying this? I mean he has no desire to see if maybe just maybe the other guy might have something?

OT - - - - - ->Wow, you are living in China! Very cool. Hope you are enjoying the experience.