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Is Ash meeting with NJ coaches regularly?

Al, get lost! You are no help here. I could care less where our players are from. As long as they are decent and give us a 110% effort we will be fine. For your information it often takes a while to get rid of the stink of past years. Rick Mantx has done and continues to do a great job regarding high school relations. No one is better and Ash and staff make themselves available often. I guess you conveniently forget the first couple of years under GS before the climate changed. And yes the 2019 class and effort will be one to watch closely. 'Nuff said on this issue.
 
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Al still is still finding fault with the current coach.Ash is up against more than Schiano faced when he took over. Perhaps not facilities wise but from personal prospective from N.J. high schools and their coaches.Shea should have been our OC ... Schiano knew the landscape but until he brought in the Pitt recruiters he didn’t really improve the roster.He got real lucky with Brian Leonard and even more lucky with Ray Rice.We need to “get” lucky again. 1 or 2 guys that come out of nowhere. It needs to be on offense. Assemble a group of o lineman like 2006-2007 . A QB like the kid from Penn State. And then we have a fighters chance.Ash will take care less of the D.
 
If you compare the end of season top 25 over the last decade with the top 25 recruiting classes #s you will see why. Yes, there are some outliers, but it in general there is a correlation between recruiting class rankings and on field rankings. You do need great coaching, but you also need the horses. You can train a field horse all you want, but it is still going to get its ass kicked by a thoroughbred on the race track, that is just reality.
Snapshot based on this year
Final 2017 Ranking (Recruiting ranking 4 years prior 2013-16):

1) Alabama 13-1 (1, 1, 2, 1)- Check

2) Georgia 13-2 (12, 7, 6, ) Check

3) Oklahoma 12-2 (15, 15, 14, 16) Check

4) Clemson 12-2 (14, 13, 4, 6) Check

5) Ohio State 12-2 (2, 3, 9, 3) Check

6) UCF 13-0 (73, 73, 63, 57) Major Outperform-Frost is going to turn Nebraska into elite again

7) Wisconsin 13-1 (57, 33, 37, 35) - Outperform

8) Penn State 11-2 (43, 24, 15, 21) Out perform- Franklin is maybe a good coach

9) TCU 11-3 (30, 50, 34, 20)- Outperform

10) Auburn 10-4 (8, 9, 27, 8)- Check

11) Notre Dame 10-3 (3, 11, 11, 13)- Check

12) USC 11-3 (13, 10, 1, 10) - Check

13) Miami 10-3 (20,12, 26, 23)- Check

14) Oklahoma State 10-3 (36, 27, 38 45) - High Outperform

15) Michigan State 10-3 (40, 22, 22, 18)- Outperform

16) Washington 10-3 (18, 36, 30, 37)- Outperform

17) Northwestern 10-3 (53, 67, 55, 46)- Fitzgerald is a genius of a coach.

18) LSU 9-4 (6, 2, 8, 5)- Under perform- Orgeron's seat must be hot

19) Mississippi State 9-4 (26, 37, 16, 34) Check

20) Stanford 9-5 (63, 14, 18, 19) Check

21) South Florida 10-2 (49, 39, 58, 70)-Major outperform--Wow, great job.

22) Boise State 11-3 (62, 65, 64,, 54)- Major outperform-it's the blue field.

23) NC State 9-4 (47, 30, 35, 43) -Outperform

24) Virginia Tech 9-4 (23, 25, 24, 49)- Check

25) Memphis 10-3 (89, 88, 76, 72) -Major Outperform
----------
Notable teams with strong recruiting not ranked: Tennessee, Florida State, Texas A/M, Florida, Kentucky, Texas, Ole Miss, Arizona, Arizona State)

Half of the Top 25 performed according to recruiting ranking for the last 4 years.
The other half outperformed or under performed.
At least 9 or 10 teams with great recruiting and poor results.

Here's a 2012 Study over a 4 year period:
https://pistolsfiringblog.com/recruiting-rankings-vs-overall-success/
The Top 10 overachievers are:
1) Boise – overachieved by 64 spots
2) Navy – 51
3) TCU – 49
4) Northern Illinois – 47
5) Air Force – 42
6) Cincinnati – 41
7) Nevada – 36
8) Connecticut – 31
9) Wisconsin – 29
9) Bowling Green – 29

OSU is 30th in this list at 13 spots.

The Top 10 underachievers are:
10) Virginia – underachieved by 30 spots
9) Washington State – 31
8) Minnesota – 33
7) Tennessee – 34
6) Washington – 35
5) Auburn – 36 (and this includes a national championship!)
4) Maryland – 37 [roll]
3) Kansas – 43
2) UCLA – 45
1) Colorado – 54

-----
Had to highlight Maryland- may that trend continue for them!!!

May RU be Wisconsin-like or Northwestern-like!!!!
 
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BOTH AL AND NUTS IS RIGHT

Yes there is still a Flood stigma but its there because Ash hasn't fixed it yet. Listen we need a coach to be almost perfect in his decisions to get us out of this hole. Ash has made many mistakes some of which Al listed. Maybe its just a rookie coach learning on the job maybe Hobbs picked the wrong guy, who knows but the reason why we are here right now is Ash didn't fix all the issues Flood made.

Ash has done an INCREDIBLE job with his hires this year, if this translates to a great 2019 recruiting class then noone is going to remember who Ash did or did not hire at first.
 
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Snapshot based on this year
Final 2017 Ranking (Recruiting ranking 4 years prior 2013-16):

1) Alabama 13-1 (1, 1, 2, 1)- Check

2) Georgia 13-2 (12, 7, 6, ) Check

3) Oklahoma 12-2 (15, 15, 14, 16) Check

4) Clemson 12-2 (14, 13, 4, 6) Check

5) Ohio State 12-2 (2, 3, 9, 3) Check

6) UCF 13-0 (73, 73, 63, 57) Major Outperform-Frost is going to turn Nebraska into elite again

7) Wisconsin 13-1 (57, 33, 37, 35) - Outperform

8) Penn State 11-2 (43, 24, 15, 21) Out perform- Franklin is maybe a good coach

9) TCU 11-3 (30, 50, 34, 20)- Outperform

10) Auburn 10-4 (8, 9, 27, 8)- Check

11) Notre Dame 10-3 (3, 11, 11, 13)- Check

12) USC 11-3 (13, 10, 1, 10) - Check

13) Miami 10-3 (20,12, 26, 23)- Check

14) Oklahoma State 10-3 (36, 27, 38 45) - High Outperform

15) Michigan State 10-3 (40, 22, 22, 18)- Outperform

16) Washington 10-3 (18, 36, 30, 37)- Outperform

17) Northwestern 10-3 (53, 67, 55, 46)- Fitzgerald is a genius of a coach.

18) LSU 9-4 (6, 2, 8, 5)- Under perform- Orgeron's seat must be hot

19) Mississippi State 9-4 (26, 37, 16, 34) Check

20) Stanford 9-5 (63, 14, 18, 19) Check

21) South Florida 10-2 (49, 39, 58, 70)-Major outperform--Wow, great job.

22) Boise State 11-3 (62, 65, 64,, 54)- Major outperform-it's the blue field.

23) NC State 9-4 (47, 30, 35, 43) -Outperform

24) Virginia Tech 9-4 (23, 25, 24, 49)- Check

25) Memphis 10-3 (89, 88, 76, 72) -Major Outperform
----------
Notable teams with strong recruiting not ranked: Tennessee, Florida State, Texas A/M, Florida, Kentucky, Texas, Ole Miss, Arizona, Arizona State)

Half of the Top 25 performed according to recruiting ranking for the last 4 years.
The other half outperformed or under performed.
At least 9 or 10 teams with great recruiting and poor results.

Here's a 2012 Study over a 4 year period:
https://pistolsfiringblog.com/recruiting-rankings-vs-overall-success/
The Top 10 overachievers are:
1) Boise – overachieved by 64 spots
2) Navy – 51
3) TCU – 49
4) Northern Illinois – 47
5) Air Force – 42
6) Cincinnati – 41
7) Nevada – 36
8) Connecticut – 31
9) Wisconsin – 29
9) Bowling Green – 29

OSU is 30th in this list at 13 spots.

The Top 10 underachievers are:
10) Virginia – underachieved by 30 spots
9) Washington State – 31
8) Minnesota – 33
7) Tennessee – 34
6) Washington – 35
5) Auburn – 36 (and this includes a national championship!)
4) Maryland – 37 [roll]
3) Kansas – 43
2) UCLA – 45
1) Colorado – 54

-----
Had to highlight Maryland- may that trend continue for them!!!

May RU be Wisconsin-like or Northwestern-like!!!!

Great analysis. 1 out of 100 is called an outlier. 12 out of 25 is not. Should quiet down the "woe is to us cause recruiting sucks" crowd ....... but it won't.
 
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Great analysis. 1 out of 100 is called an outlier. 12 out of 25 is not. Should quiet down the "woe is to us cause recruiting sucks" crowd ....... but it won't.
One point on that, the major outperforms were mostly from the AAC.
This means two things:
1. RU should have stayed in the AAC:confused:
2. We are screwed when we play Scott Frost's Nebraska.
 
I see what happened. I was trying to tell you I am riding on that same bus as you, but when I mentioned smoking the funny stuff, I meant that to mean so we can enjoy that bus ride a little more. NOT that you are out of your mind. My bad. I should have just said I am 100% in your camp, and that is what I have preached here before many a time as well.

HAHAHAHA!!! You know I thought about that afterwards, for a hot second, then picked my beer back up! Sorry!
 
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Snapshot based on this year
Final 2017 Ranking (Recruiting ranking 4 years prior 2013-16):

1) Alabama 13-1 (1, 1, 2, 1)- Check

2) Georgia 13-2 (12, 7, 6, ) Check

3) Oklahoma 12-2 (15, 15, 14, 16) Check

4) Clemson 12-2 (14, 13, 4, 6) Check

5) Ohio State 12-2 (2, 3, 9, 3) Check

6) UCF 13-0 (73, 73, 63, 57) Major Outperform-Frost is going to turn Nebraska into elite again

7) Wisconsin 13-1 (57, 33, 37, 35) - Outperform

8) Penn State 11-2 (43, 24, 15, 21) Out perform- Franklin is maybe a good coach

9) TCU 11-3 (30, 50, 34, 20)- Outperform

10) Auburn 10-4 (8, 9, 27, 8)- Check

11) Notre Dame 10-3 (3, 11, 11, 13)- Check

12) USC 11-3 (13, 10, 1, 10) - Check

13) Miami 10-3 (20,12, 26, 23)- Check

14) Oklahoma State 10-3 (36, 27, 38 45) - High Outperform

15) Michigan State 10-3 (40, 22, 22, 18)- Outperform

16) Washington 10-3 (18, 36, 30, 37)- Outperform

17) Northwestern 10-3 (53, 67, 55, 46)- Fitzgerald is a genius of a coach.

18) LSU 9-4 (6, 2, 8, 5)- Under perform- Orgeron's seat must be hot

19) Mississippi State 9-4 (26, 37, 16, 34) Check

20) Stanford 9-5 (63, 14, 18, 19) Check

21) South Florida 10-2 (49, 39, 58, 70)-Major outperform--Wow, great job.

22) Boise State 11-3 (62, 65, 64,, 54)- Major outperform-it's the blue field.

23) NC State 9-4 (47, 30, 35, 43) -Outperform

24) Virginia Tech 9-4 (23, 25, 24, 49)- Check

25) Memphis 10-3 (89, 88, 76, 72) -Major Outperform
----------
Notable teams with strong recruiting not ranked: Tennessee, Florida State, Texas A/M, Florida, Kentucky, Texas, Ole Miss, Arizona, Arizona State)

Half of the Top 25 performed according to recruiting ranking for the last 4 years.
The other half outperformed or under performed.
At least 9 or 10 teams with great recruiting and poor results.

Here's a 2012 Study over a 4 year period:
https://pistolsfiringblog.com/recruiting-rankings-vs-overall-success/
The Top 10 overachievers are:
1) Boise – overachieved by 64 spots
2) Navy – 51
3) TCU – 49
4) Northern Illinois – 47
5) Air Force – 42
6) Cincinnati – 41
7) Nevada – 36
8) Connecticut – 31
9) Wisconsin – 29
9) Bowling Green – 29

OSU is 30th in this list at 13 spots.

The Top 10 underachievers are:
10) Virginia – underachieved by 30 spots
9) Washington State – 31
8) Minnesota – 33
7) Tennessee – 34
6) Washington – 35
5) Auburn – 36 (and this includes a national championship!)
4) Maryland – 37 [roll]
3) Kansas – 43
2) UCLA – 45
1) Colorado – 54

-----
Had to highlight Maryland- may that trend continue for them!!!

May RU be Wisconsin-like or Northwestern-like!!!!
7 out of the top 10 (I don't count PSU with classes ranked at 15, 21, and 24 as an out perform) followed the pattern of ranking and recruiting class. 11 out of the top 15 followed that pattern (again, MSU at 15 is not an outperform with classes at 18, 22, and 22) That is a 70% clip for top 10 and a 73% clip for top 15, proves how important the recruiting class rankings are in the long run. Also confirms my statement made in other posts that Fitzgerald is an amazing coach.
 
7 out of the top 10 (I don't count PSU with classes ranked at 15, 21, and 24 as an out perform) followed the pattern of ranking and recruiting class. 11 out of the top 15 followed that pattern (again, MSU at 15 is not an outperform with classes at 18, 22, and 22) That is a 70% clip for top 10 and a 73% clip for top 15, proves how important the recruiting class rankings are in the long run. Also confirms my statement made in other posts that Fitzgerald is an amazing coach.

Ok, but 3 out of 10 still does not indicate outlier.
 
7 out of the top 10 (I don't count PSU with classes ranked at 15, 21, and 24 as an out perform) followed the pattern of ranking and recruiting class. 11 out of the top 15 followed that pattern (again, MSU at 15 is not an outperform with classes at 18, 22, and 22) That is a 70% clip for top 10 and a 73% clip for top 15, proves how important the recruiting class rankings are in the long run. Also confirms my statement made in other posts that Fitzgerald is an amazing coach.

Agree 100% with RUforlife and take a snapshot of the NCs and final four over decades.

Also you have to see that Top 25 polls closely. After a certain point they are pointless due to conf. schedules disparity. B1G East is not like other for example.

CFB is VERY top heavy the recruiting rankings match the results.

Bama, Clemson, GA, OU, OSU, USC, FSU, FL etc are the Top 10 heavyweights. Surprise...Surpise they rule the sport with titles.

It depends on what you WANT! Do people really care about NC State at the edges of Top 25? sure few of their own fans. But nationally they are not in the same space as the title contenders.
 
7 out of the top 10 (I don't count PSU with classes ranked at 15, 21, and 24 as an out perform) followed the pattern of ranking and recruiting class. 11 out of the top 15 followed that pattern (again, MSU at 15 is not an outperform with classes at 18, 22, and 22) That is a 70% clip for top 10 and a 73% clip for top 15, proves how important the recruiting class rankings are in the long run. Also confirms my statement made in other posts that Fitzgerald is an amazing coach.

It's going to be a LONG time before RU is top 15. Like any other statistics or data, one can cherry pick to make the point they want to make. I prefer to look at 16-25 and UCF, Wisconsin and TCU to give us some hope to outperform our recruiting rankings.
Noticed that many of the out performers were AAC and BIG12 teams, which is a consequence of weaker conferences, IMO.
Looking again, I agree with you on Michigan State, but I still think PSU was a slight outperform.

Still think there is hope for RU to outperform their recruiting rankings. Is RU going to win the conference? Of course not. Could we put in a solid year and go 7-5, 8-4 and 9-3 every few years (like Northwestern)? I hope so. Is Ash the guy to get us there? Too soon to tell, and I am not drawing any conclusions until after year 4.
 
Agree 100% with RUforlife and take a snapshot of the NCs and final four over decades.

Also you have to see that Top 25 polls closely. After a certain point they are pointless due to conf. schedules disparity. B1G East is not like other for example.

CFB is VERY top heavy the recruiting rankings match the results.

Bama, Clemson, GA, OU, OSU, USC, FSU, FL etc are the Top 10 heavyweights. Surprise...Surpise they rule the sport with titles.

It depends on what you WANT! Do people really care about NC State at the edges of Top 25? sure few of their own fans. But nationally they are not in the same space as the title contenders.
To reiterate, I don't think any of us will live to see an RU national champ or CFP appearance. You guys are using the upper echelon to paint the rest of the top 25 with a broad brush, if I understand what you guys are saying.
 
To reiterate, I don't think any of us will live to see an RU national champ or CFP appearance. You guys are using the upper echelon to paint the rest of the top 25 with a broad brush, if I understand what you guys are saying.

Yes, the lower half also depends vastly on the conf. weakness/strength.

Another point, UMD played and beat @ Texas when it had healthy QB. Then they were doing well vs UCF and their QBs goes down in that game. The game turned in favor of UCF immediately.

If the MD QB does not go down and they beat UCF (like MD beat Frost/ @ UCF last year)...is MD better or is UCF lucky/overrated? It all depends and is good debate.
 
I recall Schiano’s radio show when he first accepted the job.It was a monumental challenge.When asked by host Bruce Johnson what it would take to reach a level similar to when he was coach at U of M under Butch Johnson.Greg said,” when we have 8-9 players in each class who have the potential ability to play in the NFL we will compete for Championships.” Look back at when we were in the conversation and who we had on the roster. How many went the to show each year for a number of years. That is what we need in every class. 40-45 top level players just to compete.
 
BOTH AL AND NUTS IS RIGHT

Yes there is still a Flood stigma but its there because Ash hasn't fixed it yet. Listen we need a coach to be almost perfect in his decisions to get us out of this hole. Ash has made many mistakes some of which Al listed. Maybe its just a rookie coach learning on the job maybe Hobbs picked the wrong guy, who knows but the reason why we are here right now is Ash didn't fix all the issues Flood made.

Ash has done an INCREDIBLE job with his hires this year, if this translates to a great 2019 recruiting class then noone is going to remember who Ash did or did not hire at first.

Well put; Been saying it all along this is the class I expect to start seeing a change AS we are almost an entire 4-class cycle (these kids were Frosh for Fliod’s last season) removed BUT it is up to Ash to capitalize and get this thing going again which should become easier, in-state, as we move along.
 
Yes, the lower half also depends vastly on the conf. weakness/strength.

Another point, UMD played and beat @ Texas when it had healthy QB. Then they were doing well vs UCF and their QBs goes down in that game. The game turned in favor of UCF immediately.

If the MD QB does not go down and they beat UCF (like MD beat Frost/ @ UCF last year)...is MD better or is UCF lucky/overrated? It all depends and is good debate.
Just like the Clinton Administration used to say "It's the Economy, stupid", in football, "It's the QB, stupid."

Look at PSU- they took off when McSorley took over at QB (ironically, Hack was rated higher);
UCF did well largely because of QB who overperformed.
The same could be said for Houston under QB Ward years ago.
Same with South Florida.

Can only hope one of our QBs in the room can outperform and make the entire team follow.
 
Just like the Clinton Administration used to say "It's the Economy, stupid", in football, "It's the QB, stupid."

Look at PSU- they took off when McSorley took over at QB (ironically, Hack was rated higher);
UCF did well largely because of QB who overperformed.
The same could be said for Houston under QB Ward years ago.
Same with South Florida.

Can only hope one of our QBs in the room can outperform and make the entire team follow.

I agree with all your analysis. And just want to add that all of this is more nuanced than people agree on.

Yes, recruiting matters ALOT. It is a pre-req to get into a certain tier. But then comes the all important player development.

Also, I do think Ped State and McSorely was a game changer for franklin but Moorehead cannot be discounted.

New OCs at Ped state, Rutgers, MD can change a season's complexion either way very fast.
 
Lest us forget that Ash came in doing pretty well and it has, at best, plateaued since. So as to this he is fixing flood yadda yadda idk.
Yes ignore the changes in culture and the fact that our team is no longer being talked about like a pack of thugs
 
Al, Floods legacy unfortunately is still contributing to the stigma of this program. Ash does own it now and is improving the perception of the program as a whole, and that is the foundation which this program needs to be built upon.

The Floods legacy has little impact on the program now. The fact that we were able to bring in a Big Ten competitive class last year, shows this. But for some reason, our class slipped this year. Imo, Our less than stellar rated class reflects our performance on the field and the areas that were chosen to recruit.
 
Al, get lost! You are no help here. I could care less where our players are from. As long as they are decent and give us a 110% effort we will be fine. For your information it often takes a while to get rid of the stink of past years. Rick Mantx has done and continues to do a great job regarding high school relations. No one is better and Ash and staff make themselves available often. I guess you conveniently forget the first couple of years under GS before the climate changed. And yes the 2019 class and effort will be one to watch closely. 'Nuff said on this issue.

Don't hand me a load of baloney and try to pass it off as steak. All the points you raised are nice, but they don't allay my concerns regarding our Big Ten competitiveness. We could win in the Big East with Smoke and mirrors, but we cannot do that in the Big Ten due to the caliber of competition we face.

To better compete in the Big Ten, we need to see recruiting results like we saw last year.
We recruited better last year than we did this year, so no one can blame that on Flood, or any perceived stink. The 2 win season impacted this years recruiting more than anything else as did non competitiveness with OSU, PSU, MSU, Indiana, and UM. We are not just losing to these programs, we got killed.

The fact is there are 4 signees from NJ in 2017 and the class is ranked 13 out of 14 Big Ten programs by at least one source. There are six commitments from NY, with very few power 5 offers. There are zero defensive tackles. This is not the path to better compete with our Big Ten Peers.

In 2003, Schiano gave us reason for optimism, because he recruited a good amount of talent from NJ, NY, and Florida. Ryan Hart was our QB. Brian Leonard was in our backfield. Marcus Daniels, Willie Foster, Shawn Tucker, Tres Moses, Clark Harris, Sam Johnson among others provided us a decent receiving corp. contrast that with this year where we have decent potential at RB, WR, and QB.
 
What % would you put on each one of those labels?

Can't honestly say. Suffice it to say that Ash has some solid qualities, but the assessment out there may be that RU isn't the place for him to really get us where we want to be. There are guys in the football world more suitable, and I'm not talking earth shattering names.
 
Well that would explain the lack of significant Jersey kids in this year's class. Hope McNulty and the other asst coach additions with NJ ties begins to turn this around.

This was important. Despite what some wanted to think. We are that kind of state for better or worse. It goes beyond just telling the kids you are from here too .It goes to protocols, pleasantries, knowing where to look, and what for, etc.
 
Yes ignore the changes in culture and the fact that our team is no longer being talked about like a pack of thugs

This is the part the naysayers don't get. IL Lush, it was the yadda, yadda, yadda that got flood in trouble. Ash has fixed this and has built a solid foundation. Flood let things spin out of control by not taking care of the program.

I expect to see better results now that we are putting a mature, well conditioned team on the field.
 
The Floods legacy has little impact on the program now. The fact that we were able to bring in a Big Ten competitive class last year, shows this. But for some reason, our class slipped this year. Imo, Our less than stellar rated class reflects our performance on the field and the areas that were chosen to recruit.

Agree, The B1G East is brutal and you cannot recruit in vaccum. This is not the AAC or some subpar Pac 12 / ACC/ B12 division where you can pad wins.

Ash could follow the Frost and Durkin model. I was seeing that Frost is going more to FL. And Durkin for the upcoming year is going heavily with his FL and GA ties for 2019 class.
 
Al, I am glad to see you have this all figured out. Maybe you should apply for a job on the staff. Gives us all a break. And yes I am being critical because what you is incorrect and opens this forum to more criticism. And regarding a return of Demo you have to be kidding. No respect here.
 
Ya think???? Still, point stands
Your point that wins are all that matter is laughable. When flood got 8 wins in year three was our program healthy? Was everyone happy with where things were going? No..it was falling apart from the inside out.
 
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Your point that wins are all that matter is laughable. When flood got 8 wins in year three was our program healthy? Was everyone happy with where things were going? No..it was falling apart from the inside out.
Listen sport, trASH needs wins now more than moral victory. sorry it's all u got for our lame duck coach. he's no where near as regarded in state as on these boards
 
Listen sport, trASH needs wins now more than moral victory. sorry it's all u got for our lame duck coach. he's no where near as regarded in state as on these boards
Trash? He's had two years. Obviously the next two are important but did you expect winning seasons in his first two years in a rebuild? Whether ash is regarded well or not, he's making the hires like nunzio and hiring assistants behind the scenes well known to dbp, DePaul, etc to further build those bridges in-state.

In case you didn't notice, we improved from year one to two. Hiring McNulty was a big step forward for our offense. How about we see if we improve from year 2 to 3?
 
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BOTH AL AND NUTS IS RIGHT

Yes there is still a Flood stigma but its there because Ash hasn't fixed it yet. Listen we need a coach to be almost perfect in his decisions to get us out of this hole. Ash has made many mistakes some of which Al listed. Maybe its just a rookie coach learning on the job maybe Hobbs picked the wrong guy, who knows but the reason why we are here right now is Ash didn't fix all the issues Flood made.

Ash has done an INCREDIBLE job with his hires this year, if this translates to a great 2019 recruiting class then noone is going to remember who Ash did or did not hire at first.
The stigma only exists on this board. No coach is saying "stay away from RU because Flood was there 3 years ago." That is utter nonsense.

That is why I keep telling everyone to shut the F up and move forward. The negativity on this board permeates and does nothing to help this team. Try being positive. It can't hurt and I would be happy because I hate whiners.
 
This is the part the naysayers don't get. IL Lush, it was the yadda, yadda, yadda that got flood in trouble. Ash has fixed this and has built a solid foundation. Flood let things spin out of control by not taking care of the program.

I expect to see better results now that we are putting a mature, well conditioned team on the field.

This is literally the one and only argument you guys have right now, and it's getting tired. Especially thr way you act as if it's some ground breaking revelation that we are unaware of. , As I said, yawn.

If more competitiveness, more wins, and better recruiting comes this year then you will be at least partially vindicated, but if not, yawn.
 
Snapshot based on this year
Final 2017 Ranking (Recruiting ranking 4 years prior 2013-16):

1) Alabama 13-1 (1, 1, 2, 1)- Check

2) Georgia 13-2 (12, 7, 6, ) Check

3) Oklahoma 12-2 (15, 15, 14, 16) Check

4) Clemson 12-2 (14, 13, 4, 6) Check

5) Ohio State 12-2 (2, 3, 9, 3) Check

6) UCF 13-0 (73, 73, 63, 57) Major Outperform-Frost is going to turn Nebraska into elite again

7) Wisconsin 13-1 (57, 33, 37, 35) - Outperform

8) Penn State 11-2 (43, 24, 15, 21) Out perform- Franklin is maybe a good coach

9) TCU 11-3 (30, 50, 34, 20)- Outperform

10) Auburn 10-4 (8, 9, 27, 8)- Check

11) Notre Dame 10-3 (3, 11, 11, 13)- Check

12) USC 11-3 (13, 10, 1, 10) - Check

13) Miami 10-3 (20,12, 26, 23)- Check

14) Oklahoma State 10-3 (36, 27, 38 45) - High Outperform

15) Michigan State 10-3 (40, 22, 22, 18)- Outperform

16) Washington 10-3 (18, 36, 30, 37)- Outperform

17) Northwestern 10-3 (53, 67, 55, 46)- Fitzgerald is a genius of a coach.

18) LSU 9-4 (6, 2, 8, 5)- Under perform- Orgeron's seat must be hot

19) Mississippi State 9-4 (26, 37, 16, 34) Check

20) Stanford 9-5 (63, 14, 18, 19) Check

21) South Florida 10-2 (49, 39, 58, 70)-Major outperform--Wow, great job.

22) Boise State 11-3 (62, 65, 64,, 54)- Major outperform-it's the blue field.

23) NC State 9-4 (47, 30, 35, 43) -Outperform

24) Virginia Tech 9-4 (23, 25, 24, 49)- Check

25) Memphis 10-3 (89, 88, 76, 72) -Major Outperform
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Notable teams with strong recruiting not ranked: Tennessee, Florida State, Texas A/M, Florida, Kentucky, Texas, Ole Miss, Arizona, Arizona State)

Half of the Top 25 performed according to recruiting ranking for the last 4 years.
The other half outperformed or under performed.
At least 9 or 10 teams with great recruiting and poor results.

Here's a 2012 Study over a 4 year period:
https://pistolsfiringblog.com/recruiting-rankings-vs-overall-success/
The Top 10 overachievers are:
1) Boise – overachieved by 64 spots
2) Navy – 51
3) TCU – 49
4) Northern Illinois – 47
5) Air Force – 42
6) Cincinnati – 41
7) Nevada – 36
8) Connecticut – 31
9) Wisconsin – 29
9) Bowling Green – 29

OSU is 30th in this list at 13 spots.

The Top 10 underachievers are:
10) Virginia – underachieved by 30 spots
9) Washington State – 31
8) Minnesota – 33
7) Tennessee – 34
6) Washington – 35
5) Auburn – 36 (and this includes a national championship!)
4) Maryland – 37 [roll]
3) Kansas – 43
2) UCLA – 45
1) Colorado – 54

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Had to highlight Maryland- may that trend continue for them!!!

May RU be Wisconsin-like or Northwestern-like!!!!
Good stuff. While it is best to be a perennial Top 5 recruiting program, we are far away from being in that position so the next best thing is to bring in solid players, build them into better players, get them to stay 4-5 years and have great team chemistry. Coaching definitely helps as we all know.

Keep in mind it does not help to have Top 30 classes but be weak or lack depth in key positions. the 2006 team was a bunch of guys who bought into Schiano, stuck around 4-5 years and did their job. Ray Rice was a weapon and we had enough pieces around him to outperform our recruiting rankings finishing #12. It can be done. We did it and you show teams doing it today. Add the leadership value of Brian Leonard coming back for his 5th year and you've got a great team. Fun to watch and no off the field crap.

I like the player development Aspect that Ash seems to have brought. It's still early but I like what he has done so far. And maybe he takes a player or two that help our recruiting rankings but hurts us on the field and off the field. Would that make anyone happy? Not me. We had enough BS. Let's move forward.(ps the ringleader of the off the field issues a few years ago was a Schiano recruit but the guys who followed him were all the other guy)
 
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The stigma only exists on this board. No coach is saying "stay away from RU because Flood was there 3 years ago." That is utter nonsense.

That is why I keep telling everyone to shut the F up and move forward. The negativity on this board permeates and does nothing to help this team. Try being positive. It can't hurt and I would be happy because I hate whiners.

But if you look at the top in-state guys we have gotten like Darius and Savon, these were guys that we had been recruiting since they were in 8th or 9th grade, and were able to build a strong connection with them. That is how GS was able to sign them even after the big programs were after them. The Flood years wiped that out with recent classes.
 
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Don't hand me a load of baloney and try to pass it off as steak. All the points you raised are nice, but they don't allay my concerns regarding our Big Ten competitiveness. We could win in the Big East with Smoke and mirrors, but we cannot do that in the Big Ten due to the caliber of competition we face.

To better compete in the Big Ten, we need to see recruiting results like we saw last year.
We recruited better last year than we did this year, so no one can blame that on Flood, or any perceived stink. The 2 win season impacted this years recruiting more than anything else as did non competitiveness with OSU, PSU, MSU, Indiana, and UM. We are not just losing to these programs, we got killed.

The fact is there are 4 signees from NJ in 2017 and the class is ranked 13 out of 14 Big Ten programs by at least one source. There are six commitments from NY, with very few power 5 offers. There are zero defensive tackles. This is not the path to better compete with our Big Ten Peers.

In 2003, Schiano gave us reason for optimism, because he recruited a good amount of talent from NJ, NY, and Florida. Ryan Hart was our QB. Brian Leonard was in our backfield. Marcus Daniels, Willie Foster, Shawn Tucker, Tres Moses, Clark Harris, Sam Johnson among others provided us a decent receiving corp. contrast that with this year where we have decent potential at RB, WR, and QB.

...oh, so you mean people actually saw more tangible results on the field during year 3, correct? Haven’t we had 2 seasons under Ash so far? Also, what happened in season 4 and after the ‘05 opener when people were screaming to fire the guy?

I dunno if Ash is the answer or not but people who actively trash the guy and wrote everything off already come off as ignorant to the point of brainlessness.


Joe P.
 
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